The NAD T775/T785 AVRs w/ HDMI 1.3 Thread! - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 4310 Old 10-18-2007, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by dan1010 View Post

Also relating to your bi-amp question, when bi-amping your fronts using the back amp, the back speaker pre-outs are still active for the back speakers. Meaning you could actually still get 7.1 if you used another amp for your backs.

This is a good point. I'll probably end up doing something like this in the future.
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post #272 of 4310 Old 10-18-2007, 10:57 AM
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Not to be a wet blanket, but it's not really biamping because both sets of amps are still getting full range instead of freq-divided signals, so they're still subject to voltage clipping from the low and high freq signals adding together.

And the amp power is still going through the speakers' passive XO components.

The biggest benefit, though likely only audible when driving the system to its limits, is less load on the power supply by only driving tweeters w/two of the channels, but you could do the same thing by just not using those channels at all.

Noah
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post #273 of 4310 Old 10-18-2007, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnc1 View Post

Not at the moment. I'm waiting until I get my 775 fixed before I go through running cable for the setup. I have a 6.1 setup so I've been debating getting rid of the rear surround channel. I find that the rear surround channel opens up the surround soundstage quite a bit so I'm rather loathe to remove it.

I've never bi-amped my fronts...have you done this? Do you find the sonic gains significant enough that it will make me forget about the rear surround channel? Just curious...

Tried it once. I have B&W 703's and I tried out a Sony 5200 ES a few months ago (my current Sony 5ES doesn't support bi-amp). I didn't notice an appreciable difference, but it may be due to the 5200's lack of power.

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post #274 of 4310 Old 10-18-2007, 12:11 PM
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New Review of NAD T955 100x5 PowerAmp:
www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/nad_t955.htm

I was looking at reviews of the of the T773, a 110x7 rec'r. Anyone familiar with rec'rs know that lots of them can't put out anywhere near their rated output when driven into 5 or 7 channels, and that the power at 20Hz is way lower than the power at 1k Hz.

Here are two reviews results with the 110x7 watt NAD T773:

5 chans driven into 8 ohms: 105 wpc (HT mag)

7 chans driven into 8 ohms @ 20Hz: 103 wpc;
into 4 ohms @ 20 Hz: 120 wpc
7 chans driven into 8 ohms @ 1kHZ: 108wpc;
into 4 ohms @ 1kHz: 131 wpc (Ultimate AV Mag)

Few rec'rs can begin to compare.
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post #275 of 4310 Old 10-18-2007, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

Here are two reviews results with the 110x7 watt NAD T773:

5 chans driven into 8 ohms: 105 wpc (HT mag)

7 chans driven into 8 ohms @ 20Hz: 103 wpc;
into 4 ohms @ 20 Hz: 120 wpc
7 chans driven into 8 ohms @ 1kHZ: 108wpc;
into 4 ohms @ 1kHz: 131 wpc (Ultimate AV Mag)

Few rec'rs can begin to compare.

I'll be very interested to see review measurements for the T775 when someone gets around to reviewing it. I anticipate more of the same...you have to hand it to NAD--they don't fudge their specifications.
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post #276 of 4310 Old 10-18-2007, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan1010 View Post

I Bi-Amp my fronts using the Backs on the T775 and can still listen to 5.1. So yes, it does support all 5.1 surround modes while bi-amping. It's too bad there is no bridging capabilities though ...

Also relating to your bi-amp question, when bi-amping your fronts using the back amp, the back speaker pre-outs are still active for the back speakers. Meaning you could actually still get 7.1 if you used another amp for your backs.

If you bi-amp the fronts, can you still play through the A & B speakers at the same time? I know the manual says that when both A&B are selected then the source is downmixed to stereo. Wasn't sure if that meant the back surround outputs would still be active for bi-amping?

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post #277 of 4310 Old 10-18-2007, 05:46 PM
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I don't see why that wouldn't work.

John
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post #278 of 4310 Old 10-20-2007, 04:38 AM
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Hello,

the manuals for the T7x5 series is now online at the NAD site.
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post #279 of 4310 Old 10-20-2007, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnc1 View Post

once the fix is in place, if your player can convert multichannel SACD to 5.1 LPCM channels, you will be able to send multichannel SACD over HDMI.

what you will not be able to do, however, is send a native SACD DSD bitstream over HDMI to the NAD T775/T785/T175. That feature is not scheduled for inclusion (to my knowledge) for the foreseeable future, although with modular construction one cannot wholly rule it out.

This means that I am unlikely to buy one of these NAD receivers.
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post #280 of 4310 Old 10-20-2007, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Not to be a wet blanket, but it's not really biamping because both sets of amps are still getting full range instead of freq-divided signals, so they're still subject to voltage clipping from the low and high freq signals adding together.

And the amp power is still going through the speakers' passive XO components.

The biggest benefit, though likely only audible when driving the system to its limits, is less load on the power supply by only driving tweeters w/two of the channels, but you could do the same thing by just not using those channels at all.

Right on, in fact what he was calling "biamping" is commonly referred to as biwiring, i have done it on my front stage, benefit is there but many will argue it makes no difference at low amp loads.
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post #281 of 4310 Old 10-20-2007, 10:19 AM
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The T785 manual is not available for download on the NAD site. The 775 is.
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post #282 of 4310 Old 10-20-2007, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnc1 View Post

what you will not be able to do, however, is send a native SACD DSD bitstream over HDMI to the NAD T775/T785/T175. That feature is not scheduled for inclusion (to my knowledge) for the foreseeable future, although with modular construction one cannot wholly rule it out.

which other [new] surround processors, or receivers for example, decode a native DSD bit-stream? (ie. Integra DTS-9.8?, new Denon recievers?, new Yamaha receivers?, etc.,..)
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post #283 of 4310 Old 10-20-2007, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

The T785 manual is not available for download on the NAD site. The 775 is.

It should be pretty well identical except for a few small facts on weight/size/power, etc. The remote might be different, I forget. I haven't seen the remote on the T785.

John
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post #284 of 4310 Old 10-20-2007, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by allsop4now View Post

This means that I am unlikely to buy one of these NAD receivers.

There would be no real difference though. If the SACD player can turn it into a PCM signal it is the same as the NAD taking it in and then decoding it with a PCM DAC. Besides, what's the point of having expensive DSD DACs on an SACD player if you plan on avoiding them entirely.

John
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post #285 of 4310 Old 10-20-2007, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

If the SACD player can turn it into a PCM signal it is the same as the NAD taking it in and then decoding it with a PCM DAC

so we should be able to play multi-channel SACD sources via-HDMI with the NAD T775/T785/T175?
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post #286 of 4310 Old 10-20-2007, 03:07 PM
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If the SACD can reformat the signal as PCM, I don't see why not.

John
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post #287 of 4310 Old 10-20-2007, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

If the SACD can reformat the signal as PCM, I don't see why not.

the reason why I'm asking is that I'd like to interface, both, my Denon DVD-3930CI and Oppo DV-980H players to the T175 using HDMI (for audio and video).

I believe the Oppo will do PCM
http://www.oppodigital.com/dv980h/default.asp

Althoug I'm not sure abut the Denon
http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3297.asp

I may just run the Denon using, both, the T175 multi-channel inputs and HDMI, and connect the Oppo via-HDMI only.
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post #288 of 4310 Old 10-20-2007, 04:44 PM
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Yeah, the Oppo looks like it will convert SACD to PCM for HDMI, but you wouldn't be able to use the DSD output over HDMI. I can't say for sure, it's not specific, but it does mention SACD over HDMI, then also mentions DSD over HDMI.

John
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post #289 of 4310 Old 10-20-2007, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Yeah, the Oppo looks like it will convert SACD to PCM for HDMI, it does mention SACD over HDMI, then also mentions DSD over HDMI.

yeah, from what I gather on the Oppo DV-980 thread this player [does] output DSD for SACD sources. Although I guess I could'nt use it anyway as the T175 will not decode it.

Appreciate your input!
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post #290 of 4310 Old 10-20-2007, 09:10 PM
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Well, I'm saying that it *might* convert it to PCM. Just check to see if there's a setting for that.

John
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post #291 of 4310 Old 10-21-2007, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

There would be no real difference though. If the SACD player can turn it into a PCM signal it is the same as the NAD taking it in and then decoding it with a PCM DAC. Besides, what's the point of having expensive DSD DACs on an SACD player if you plan on avoiding them entirely.

I don't claim to have a complete understanding of the differences in DAC's for DSD vs. PCM, but I would think some would argue that a "native" DSD DAC would be beneficial when listening to SACD, because it should be able to decode the DSD stream at its native 2.8Mhz sampling rate. The way I understand it, when the DSD stream is converted to PCM, it must of course be down-converted to whatever rate the PCM DAC's are capable of decoding, which in the case of the new NAD's is 192Khz. Again I'm not an acoustical engineer, but I would think there is some sort of compromise that occurs in this process. For example, if I understand it correctly, when one is listening to an SACD over multichannel HDMI from, say, a PS3 that has converted the DSD stream to PCM, what one is really hearing is a PCM sampling of the DSD stream itself. Does this conversion create an audible degradation? Probably not, but the purists might argue otherwise, and after all this should be expected as those that back SACD (DSD) contend the superiority of the format against those that back DVD-A (PCM). With these things in mind I can understand why some are bothered that a DSD stream cannot be decoded by the NAD.

I would assume that including a DSD DAC-set would probably have driven the cost of these units beyond a level that NAD deemed acceptable...
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post #292 of 4310 Old 10-21-2007, 07:49 AM
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One thing that I just realized and may push me from the NAD to the Denon is the lack of inputs. I need inputs for dvd, hd-dvd, phono, dvr/cable tv, tape and MD. Granted I seldom use the cassette and MD anymore, but I have them and would like to keep them connected. So I'm already short an input for one of my units and if I get the IPod dock then I need to disconnect another. My Sony 5ES handles all of these with a couple to spare.

Slightly off topic but,... The dvd player is connected now to a 7.1 input and optical input. 7.1 is for playing SACDs and optical for regular CDs. I could conceivably only connect the dvd player to 7.1 input on the NAD, but the problem I see is that on the 5ES, I don't get any output to the SUB if I'm playing regular CDs. I assume that is because 7.1 input only sends to the speakers what it receives. Not sure if can tell the dvd player (Sony 555es) to send to the SUB output when playing stereo CDs?

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post #293 of 4310 Old 10-21-2007, 08:50 AM
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Phil, you could set up different presets that would allow you to hook up as much as you want. I'd have to count though, I find it hard to believe you need more!

John
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post #294 of 4310 Old 10-21-2007, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Well, I'm saying that it *might* convert it to PCM. Just check to see if there's a setting for that.

yeah, it looks like the DV-980H does convert DSD to PCM:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

The DV-980H will do DSD to PCM or transport DSD as a bitstream.

The setting which effects this is the SACD option under Audio Setup. By default it is set to do DSD to PCM.

So I will connect the Oppo to the T175 via-HDMI only (for audio and video). While the Denon will be interfaced to the T175 using 5.1ch multi-channel inputs as well as HDMI.
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post #295 of 4310 Old 10-21-2007, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

There would be no real difference though. If the SACD player can turn it into a PCM signal it is the same as the NAD taking it in and then decoding it with a PCM DAC. Besides, what's the point of having expensive DSD DACs on an SACD player if you plan on avoiding them entirely.

As far as I know only Oppo players (980 at least) can output SACD as PCM over HDMI. The other players I looked at could not do that. For instance, the Denon players cannot nor the Yamaha, or the Marantz for that matter.
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post #296 of 4310 Old 10-21-2007, 11:02 AM
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So does the PS3.
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post #297 of 4310 Old 10-21-2007, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Phil, you could set up different presets that would allow you to hook up as much as you want. I'd have to count though, I find it hard to believe you need more!

OK, Looking at the "Quick Start" chart in the manual, I thought there was just Source1-4 and iPod that you have defined for back connections plus the Source7 for 7.1 input and then 2 inputs for the front panel audio and mini-stereo inputs.

I just looked further in the manual under Source Setup and it says there are 10 configurable Sources! So there are 2 more unused/undefined sources besides the 8 predefined and looks like you could set up so that the front inputs are not used and get 2 more rear inputs.

Thanks!

Phil Tomaskovic
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post #298 of 4310 Old 10-21-2007, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allsop4now View Post

As far as I know only Oppo players (980 at least) can output SACD as PCM over HDMI. The other players I looked at could not do that. For instance, the Denon players cannot nor the Yamaha, or the Marantz for that matter.

My Pioneer DV-600AV player can also output SACD as PCM over HDMI

Ken
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post #299 of 4310 Old 10-22-2007, 11:17 AM
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Hi Ken,

I tried the new Yamaha 3800 over the weekend but the video side let it down to the Onkyo 905 - The Reon wins hands down - so I took it back this morning

Any news yet on the 785 arriving over here?

Best Wishes

Gary
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post #300 of 4310 Old 10-22-2007, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Spaniard View Post

Hi Ken,

I tried the new Yamaha 3800 over the weekend but the video side let it down to the Onkyo 905 - The Reon wins hands down - so I took it back this morning

Any news yet on the 785 arriving over here?

Hi mate,

1st week in December for the T785 In UK - possibly a little sooner according to Nad - a nice early toy for Christmas then

Ken
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