The NAD T775/T785 AVRs w/ HDMI 1.3 Thread! - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 4310 Old 12-20-2007, 03:19 PM
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I picked up my T785 yesterday and began tearing out the miles of component cables and redesigning the cable layout. So far, I've only reconnected my speakers and activated XM. Initially I had trouble getting the OSD over HDMI->DVI but a power cycle of the TV fixed that, so that’s probably a matter of figuring out what order to turn my devices on. I am slightly disappointed in one area that is probably important only to me. It doesn't appear you can watch an input while listening to XM. You can setup an input that will use HDMI audio from one input and HDMI video from another, but none using the tuners (including XM). The reason I do such a thing is often I have a sporting event on in the background while casually listening to music. In this case, I'll just have to listen to CD's or use the PS3.

I'll report back more after hooking up more components and testing HDMI this evening. I haven't checked the firmware as of yet as I need to track down that post for instructions.
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post #632 of 4310 Old 12-20-2007, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew_N View Post

often I have a sporting event on in the background while casually listening to music

that's exactly the way I commonly use my system. I'm figuring to be able to use CD or DVD (audio)source while viewing digital-cable (video) source.
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post #633 of 4310 Old 12-20-2007, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

I am thorughly disappointed and discouraged by the new NAD products. After reading that NAD was acutely aware of the problems with past unit's reliability, and was designing the new units from the ground up with reliability in mind, I was looking forward to the new NAD products. it is clear NAD did not meet its goal.

First there was the problem with no audio passing via HDMI. Sure NAD fixed it, but the new units should never have been released with so glaring a problem. Word has it the new units were delayed to get the best HDMI 1.3a boards. And NAD releases them with no audio?

Then there was the problem with passing 1080p. It turns out that if the firmware was 1.07 or higher, the problem was resolved. NAD should NEVER have released units without updating the firmware before shipping them out. The current firmware version is 1.12. I wonder what the variety of firmware versions is in the units released? My guess is few have 1.12.

Then there are the reports of the individual problems, like the dealer with a T175 who can only get HDMI Input #3 to work. And the post above. Or how about no one being able to figure out how to switch inputs with the remote that comes with the T785? Poor manual or defect?

To give NAD the benefit of the doubt, maybe its engineers did design reliable, great units and NAD picked a lousy factory to build them. Beyond doubt is that the quality control at the factory is non existant. And the units were released before they were ready to be shipped out.

I had intended on getting two T785s (2 systems). When the problems first showed up, I figured it was just the usual kinks in a new product that would be worked out, and I'd wait for that to happen before getting them.

It is now obvious that that is not going to happen any time soon, if at all. Add in the number of individually defective units showing up, and I must rate NAD's attempt to reform its reliability reputation as a dismal failure.

People have complained lately about the slowness of NAD to respond to problems. I am sure this is because they are absolutly inunditated with calls and emails about defective units.

I wanted the NAD T785 for its sound quality, straight forward design, simplicity of use, etc. I have abandoned that idea. I have no desire to buy Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha, and their ilk. Read the reviews of their rec'rs. There is always some criticism of the sound quality (at least in www.ultimateav.com ) as opposed to the accolades that NADs get about their sound quality.

The only other brands that I have found with similar accolades about sound quality are B&K, and, oddly, Sherwood Newcastle. (Of course, B&K has its own problems on initial release on new units.) Arcam is good, but its rec'rs HDMI switching/processing is 1.1 video only, eliminating them (same w/Rotel BTW).

So it appars my next rec'r will be a B&K AVR707 or Sherwood Newcastle R-972 (W/Trinnov room eq). Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I would still like to get the T785s. But, at this point, I see little short of a miracle, that would solve the problems with the new NAD units.

I posted long ago a somewhat similar post, much shorter, and was accused of being pessimistic. I don't think that accusation will stand anymore; I am simply being realistic.

We just set up a new 775. Not a problem to be had. Not one. Huge sound, perfect imaging, easy to setup, and it paired perfect with the other components used in the setup (my opinion of course, for those who want to jump on this statement).

Actually when I think of it never had a NAD issue except the hum from speakers years ago which is now cleared up.
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post #634 of 4310 Old 12-20-2007, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew_N View Post

I picked up my T785 yesterday and began tearing out the miles of component cables and redesigning the cable layout. So far, I've only reconnected my speakers and activated XM. Initially I had trouble getting the OSD over HDMI->DVI but a power cycle of the TV fixed that, so that's probably a matter of figuring out what order to turn my devices on. I am slightly disappointed in one area that is probably important only to me. It doesn't appear you can watch an input while listening to XM. You can setup an input that will use HDMI audio from one input and HDMI video from another, but none using the tuners (including XM). The reason I do such a thing is often I have a sporting event on in the background while casually listening to music. In this case, I'll just have to listen to CD's or use the PS3.

I'll report back more after hooking up more components and testing HDMI this evening. I haven't checked the firmware as of yet as I need to track down that post for instructions.

That would also suck if I want to hear the radio broadcast of a game instead of the tv broadcasters. Unfortunately if the game is in HD, it usually has a couple second delay relative to radio broadcast which makes it hard to watch.

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post #635 of 4310 Old 12-20-2007, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post


The only other brands that I have found with similar accolades about sound quality are B&K, and, oddly, Sherwood Newcastle. (Of course, B&K has its own problems on initial release on new units.) Arcam is good, but its rec'rs HDMI switching/processing is 1.1 video only, eliminating them (same w/Rotel BTW).

Rotel's RSB-1069 accepts multi-channel PCM over HDMI 1.1 so it does support audio in the same manner that they NAD units do (processor, not receivers).
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post #636 of 4310 Old 12-20-2007, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

approximately how long have you had your T775?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan1010 View Post

Did you check/update the firmware version?

I go it just before Thanksgiving. So have had it about a month.

How can you update the firmware if NAD doesn't respond to calls for help and dealer has no clue? There are version numbers for three components within the 775. I assume the first one is the firmware people are talking about. Anybody know what the other two are?

MCU = 1.06
DSP = 1.01a
VART = v1.03
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post #637 of 4310 Old 12-20-2007, 11:01 PM
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E-mail me and I'll get you the upgrade and info - john@adnm.com

John
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post #638 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 05:39 AM
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Will someone please hurry up and get round to submitting a review on the 785 please!

Best Wishes

Gary
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post #639 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 06:03 AM
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So here's my take on day 2 with the 785.

Hookup of everything went well, but I have to say they really should have made some time of retaining clip with HDMI cables. The vertical layout of the ports combined with thick cables makes them "hang" slightly at a small angle. It doesn’t seem to affect performance however.

My components consist of Toshiba HD-A1, PS3, and Comcast DVR, all hooked up via HDMI to a Sony 60XBR950 (DVI). The connections are all working great and I haven't had any issues. My TV accepts up to 1080i.

My initial impression of the sound quality is that it is fantastic. I have not yet done the Audyssey config and will probably get to that tomorrow. I'm really looking forward to listening to music once that’s setup.

Unfortunately the disappointment I had yesterday with combining XM and HDMI video has actually grown. I had assumed (based on the questionable manual) that you could assign video from HDMI 1 and audio from HDMI 2 together for a source. That is not the case as you must pair them together. You can combine HDMI video and an analog or optical source, but that complicates the setup a bit. I'll probably combine the video with my old Denon 2900 sacd/dvd-a player to listen to music while watching a game. I'm very surprised as the receiver I’m replacing from 2001 was able to change the video source independently. Maybe it’s a challenge with multiple HDMIs, but you should at least be able to assign a tuner to it. I'm actually not sure how much I'll use XM if I have to watch the OSD's bright blue screen with white text of the song and station. I understand this challenge may not bother most people, but it does seem like there are a few who listen this way as well. I’ll let you know if I find a workaround.
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post #640 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 08:18 AM
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Drew - I think the reason you cannot mix audio and video from 2 separate HDMI inputs is due to the nature of HDMI handshaking / copy protection. HDMI must establish a handshake with another HDMI device as communication must run both ways between the source and the display / receiver. You can only switch to another HDMI source by breaking the first handshake connection and establishing a new handshake connection. It is all part of the wonderful new world of HDMI and nothing to do with NAD. The days of being able to assign audio from one input and video from another are officially over if those inputs are indeed HDMI.
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post #641 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc10000 View Post

Did you do a full factory reset to default? Not just a power cycle, but full reset...if so & it's still not working properly, then absolutely return for warranty/exchange.

Hi there,

How do you reset the T775? I got mine back from the dealer repair today, and now it doesn't respond to the remote

Cheers!
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post #642 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nephron View Post

Hi there,

How do you reset the T775? I got mine back from the dealer repair today, and now it doesn't respond to the remote

Cheers!

OK, never mind, I figured it out by random button pushing. Despite the hardware and firmware upgrade, I still don't get anything other than 2 channel audio from the PCM stream from my Playstation 3. Any ideas?

Cheers!
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post #643 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

I wanted the NAD T785 for its sound quality, straight forward design, simplicity of use, etc. I have abandoned that idea. I have no desire to buy Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha, and their ilk. Read the reviews of their rec'rs. There is always some criticism of the sound quality (at least in www.ultimateav.com ) as opposed to the accolades that NADs get about their sound quality.

I've always been in the same boat as you (and a couple of others in this thread), in that what I really want is a simple, minimalist receiver that just does its job well with no fuss and no stupid DSP mode settings and no over-fancy processing or whatever else. But like you, every time I look at the home theater products from the high-end companies, they're always loaded with problems and bugs and missing basic functionality. The end result is that until a week ago, I was still using my two-channel Parasound preamp with a separate video component switcher.

So anyway, having had my hand finally forced into HDMI with a gift of a PS3, I went out looking for a preamp or a receiver, and read through pretty much all the threads here on AVS and reviews in a bunch of other places (seriously, I spent like twelve straight hours on this, and I read most of these sites regularly anyway). I've seen mention of the problems with the NAD units (which is sad, because I love my little NAD 314, and would've liked to get a receiver with similar design and quality), I've seen tons of griping about the Onkyos and Denons, but what I noticed when I read through the Yamaha threads is that its new units aren't getting the same pissed-off irritable comments that most of the others are, plus it got great reviews for sound (
including at ultimateavmag.com, which you specifically mention). I ended up buying the RX-V1800, and it's working pretty well so far -- and yeah, it has the stupid DSP modes and what-not, but it's all ignorable with a simple push of the "STRAIGHT" button.

Anyway, not to digress too much, but it really seems to me like high-end audio companies are great at analog circuit stuff, but when it comes to the highly technical, essentially computerized componentry needed for a modern receiver/prepro, they're just in over their heads and don't have the resources of a big engineering company like Yamaha or Denon or Sony (though Denon appears to have made some errors in this generation, and Sony isn't even really trying to compete in that market). My suspicion is that eventually this stuff will get commoditized enough that at some point the manufacturers can just plug in high-level integrated componentry and not fuss the details, but until then, I think it's safest to stick with the upper-mass-market stuff.
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post #644 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkozlows View Post

when I read through the Yamaha threads is that its new units aren't getting the same pissed-off irritable comments that most of the others are. I ended up buying the RX-V1800

exactly right (for the most part). I had four different Yamaha receivers (RX-V1500, RX-V1600, RX-V2600, RX-v2700) until I purchased an NAD T175. I've been very impressed with Yamaha receivers, DSP is superb, although not the best analog stereo performance (but not bad), never experienced any kind of failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkozlows View Post

it really seems to me like high-end audio companies are great at analog circuit stuff, but when it comes to the highly technical, essentially computerized componentry needed for a modern receiver/prepro, they're just in over their heads and don't have the resources of a big engineering company like Yamaha or Denon or Sony

yep, the large commercial manufacturers have more resources (money, etc.,..) for state-of-the-art digital-design teams. On the other hand (from my observations) the more "digitally-capable" high-end companies produce products at rediculous high prices (ie. Meridian, Lexicon, etc.,...).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkozlows View Post

I think it's safest to stick with the upper-mass-market stuff

I was in that mode thinking the last few years, but now really want good analog design (pre-amp/amp) for music.
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post #645 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 04:46 PM
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WestcoastD - how does the NAD T175 compare to the Yamaha RX-V2700 strictly for movie performance as a pre pro?
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post #646 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 04:52 PM
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Keep in mind that many Japanese companies are putting out 6-10 receivers every year where as NAD is putting out 3-4 every 3-4 years. They have time to focus on the important things and put more love into every unit. The T775 and T785 could be the receiver you actually keep for the next 5-10 years, not the next 5-10 months.

John
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post #647 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m@rkus View Post

WestcoastD - how does the NAD T175 compare to the Yamaha RX-V2700 strictly for movie performance as a pre pro?

I'm still setting things up, also completely overwhelmed at work (just can't seem to get a few consecutive days to finish). But I hope to have things going by like christmas. I will gladly report here immediately after.
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post #648 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nephron View Post

OK, never mind, I figured it out by random button pushing. Despite the hardware and firmware upgrade, I still don't get anything other than 2 channel audio from the PCM stream from my Playstation 3. Any ideas?

Cheers!

Never forget to press the "amp" button if the remote isn't working! Very common mistake.

John
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post #649 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

I'm still setting things up, also completely overwhelmed at work (just can't seem to get a few consecutive days to finish). But I hope to have things going by like christmas. I will gladly report here immediately after.

Thanks
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post #650 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nephron View Post

Hi there,

How do you reset the T775? I got mine back from the dealer repair today, and now it doesn't respond to the remote

Cheers!

Typically you push Video and Tone Defeat buttons simultaneously for 2 seconds, but it could vary from model to model. It's prob in the manual, but you'll know for sure when it happens.
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post #651 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Keep in mind that many Japanese companies are putting out 6-10 receivers every year where as NAD is putting out 3-4 every 3-4 years. They have time to focus on the important things and put more love into every unit. The T775 and T785 could be the receiver you actually keep for the next 5-10 years, not the next 5-10 months.

Honestly, that's pure marketing fluff. What part of the machine does the "love" go into? Does the "love" make the sound better? Does it make it more reliable? And why would you keep it 10 years? And why would you get rid of another receiver in 10 months?

This is the kind of emotion and image-based manipulation that belongs in ad copy, not on these forums.
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post #652 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkozlows View Post

Honestly, that's pure marketing fluff. What part of the machine does the "love" go into? Does the "love" make the sound better? Does it make it more reliable? And why would you keep it 10 years? And why would you get rid of another receiver in 10 months?

This is the kind of emotion and image-based manipulation that belongs in ad copy, not on these forums.

Good point, I had a Yam 2095 from 1999 to 2006, replaced it with a Denon 4306 which I've had for about 18 mos and at the present time have no plans to replace it as it meets all my needs, has the minimum HDMI compatibility (1.1) and to my ear has great SQ. Both receivers have been more or less bulletproof, have not had any problems with either of them.

IMO, the major Japanese manufacturers come out with new products once/year (more or less, sometimes the product cycle is closer to 18 mos to 24 mos for their higher end models) because they have the R&D resources to perform to that level. I would bet that NAD does not have the ability to release a new product every year, more due to the size/sales of their company and proportionate R&D budgets than anything else.

Note, not to say that NAD does not have a good product, but rather it is an "apples to oranges" comparison as to the Japanese business model vs. NAD's business model.
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post #653 of 4310 Old 12-21-2007, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
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I

So anyway, having had my hand finally forced into HDMI with a gift of a PS3

why is your hand forced? Isn't there an optical audio out on the PS3? You connct hdmi for the video, optical for the audio. No need to get new gear for that, right?
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post #654 of 4310 Old 12-22-2007, 04:25 AM
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why is your hand forced? Isn't there an optical audio out on the PS3? You connct hdmi for the video, optical for the audio. No need to get new gear for that, right?

It ran me out of inputs on the video switcher, so I needed to do something, and since I've got three HDMI-capable devices, it seemed time to modernize.
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post #655 of 4310 Old 12-22-2007, 05:33 AM
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You won't get any Hi-Def audio out of an optical connection, it doesn't have the bandwidth
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post #656 of 4310 Old 12-22-2007, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nephron View Post

OK, never mind, I figured it out by random button pushing. Despite the hardware and firmware upgrade, I still don't get anything other than 2 channel audio from the PCM stream from my Playstation 3. Any ideas?

Cheers!

Thanks for the responses!

I figured out my problem.

First, when I got the T775 back from the repair depot, it no longer responded to the remote. I reset the T775 by holding down the previous source button (the one with the left arrow) and the front input button for about 5 seconds (until the front screen shows something like "AV reset"). Then I cycled power using the switch at the back. Now the unit is reset and recognizes the remote again. Of course, all my settings are gone so I have to reprogram the receiver.

Now the next problem. I had set the Playstation 3 to decode multichannel material and pass it over the HDMI connector to the T775 as linear PCM (this is in the bluray setup area on the PS3). Unfortunately, the NAD was still only recognizing the PCM signal as stereo, despite having the board swapped out and the firmware upgraded! This is when it occurred to me that maybe the PS3 wasn't set up properly. There is a second set of settings that have to be adjusted on the PS3 in order for it to work properly with the T775. Under the audio setup, the PS3 had automatically set itself up to use HDMI for the audio, but did not recognize the T775 as being able to accept any multichannel PCM material. I had to manually turn on the long list of multichannel PCM sources. Once I did this ... perfection. The PS3 decodes uncompressed PCM or TrueHD material on the PS3, and sends it across the HDMI connector to the T775. The front display of the T775 reads "Direct" when playing this material.

It sounds fantastic. I watched the new BluRay version of Blade Runner last night, and I couldn't believe how great it sounded. I have seen the DVD version many times, and I figured that the TrueHD soundtrack would sound better, but the difference is simply amazing. I was expecting this to be a relatively subtle upgrade. I have a feeling that listening to the soundtracks on DVDs is going to be disappointing from now on.

One last thing ... running the Audyssey calibration routine resulted in a big improvement in the sound.

Cheers!
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post #657 of 4310 Old 12-22-2007, 06:35 AM
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That's great! And when the PS3 is finally upgraded to decode DTS-MA as HDMI, you can forget about all this nonsense about the NAD needing bitsream decoding. Of course, that's only for those of us who are lucky enough to have PS3s.

I've definitely decided to get two T785. Forget my prior, lengthy, idiotic post.
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post #658 of 4310 Old 12-22-2007, 08:10 AM
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Attachment 97212

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Attachment 97214

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Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

That's great! And when the PS3 is finally upgraded to decode DTS-MA as HDMI, you can forget about all this nonsense about the NAD needing bitsream decoding. Of course, that's only for those of us who are lucky enough to have PS3s.

I've definitely decided to get two T785. Forget my prior, lengthy, idiotic post.

Robert,

Trust me we all have doubts when buying electronic equipment, especially high-end equipment. I set up my 785 last night and all I need to say is the sound out of the box is AMAZING. I have zero buyer's remorse. I started from scratch when setting it up. What I mean is I bought new HDMI 1.3a Class 2 certified cables, pulled apart all of my other components and reorganized my whole system. I hooked up my DVD player (just a basic DVD player (Stil trying to decide which HD Player to get) and cable box (SA8300 HD) via HDMI. The video and Audio are passing via HDMI with no problems. I swear not only does the audio sound better but the video even looks better. However, for the video I would say that is because of the new cables, since it is just passing the signal trhough the receiver without any conversion.

The OSD function on the AVR is very easy to use. I hardly needed to use the manual. The Ipod dock is GREAT. Anyone that uses an ipod should get this. Both my tv and the 785 display the song titlles as you scroll through your ipod screens. This gives you the option to turn the tv off if you rater not see the blue screen. The sound from the ipod is fantastic.

The setup was very easy and straight forward. Like I said the sound out of the box is unbelievable, but I have not tried the Audyssey set up yet. I can't imagine it to be better, but from what I hear around the forums, it may be. I dont know when I will have time to do that, but when I do I will report back what I find (or hear). I don't think you will regret the decision to purchase the 785. Who cares about the 2 missing codecs, all I hear is one problem after another with those receivers that can handle them (Onkyo and Denon) and that the setup is very difficult. If you want amazing clean sound go NAD.

Good luck with your purchas, and here are a few pictures of my setup.

Scott
LL
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post #659 of 4310 Old 12-22-2007, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mkozlows View Post

Honestly, that's pure marketing fluff. What part of the machine does the "love" go into?


Circuit design. User interface. Simplicity.
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Does the "love" make the sound better?

Actually, it probably does.
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Does it make it more reliable?

We don't know that yet for sure yet, but they say yes. Certainly easy to repair.
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And why would you keep it 10 years?

Because it's modular and far more upgradeable.
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And why would you get rid of another receiver in 10 months?

Because it's not modular or as upgradeable.
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This is the kind of emotion and image-based manipulation that belongs in ad copy, not on these forums.

Well said by someone who owns nothing more than an appliance.

John
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post #660 of 4310 Old 12-22-2007, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

I've definitely decided to get two T785. Forget my prior, lengthy, idiotic post.

Youda man!

John
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