The NAD T775/T785 AVRs w/ HDMI 1.3 Thread! - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 4314 Old 12-28-2007, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Tomaskovic View Post

My dealer says the 785 will run my B&W 703s better

The T785 would definitely drive your B&W's more efficiently (than the T775).
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post #722 of 4314 Old 12-28-2007, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

I may be wrong, but I think the correct statement is "HDMI copy protection *can*, at the studio's discretion, prevent..........."

At least, that's how I understood it. Plus, I don't see a big advantage in putting that kind of circuitry in every unit. The money for better amps has to come from somewhere and most people simply don't need HDMI converted to component, especially if all it does is avoid using a few cables you likely still have.

One wonders what's going to happen to all of the composite, S-video, component, analog audio and digital audio cables that are piling up. Most places I go to have at least one full box already and that's before we tear out all the cables that they were using.

Do a wiki search on Image Constraint Token and that should give you the scoop you need for down conversion over analog cables.
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post #723 of 4314 Old 12-28-2007, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m@rkus View Post

Sorry to say but this is indeed true. HDMI copy protection prohibits the downconversion or transcoding of video for component video output.

If that is the case, why would the Apple TV work with HDMI but not the PS3 or TiVo?
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post #724 of 4314 Old 12-28-2007, 10:12 AM
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Because Apple TV is not full HD, better off with a PS3.
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post #725 of 4314 Old 12-28-2007, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

The T785 would definitely drive your B&W's more efficiently (than the T775).

I agree with WestCoastD, at least in theory the 785 should drive your B&W's more efficiently. I went with the 785 to drive my Monitor Audio GS60's because for the extra $400 I paid to jump up to the 785 I like knowing I have the top of the line AVR that NAD produces. Below are the differences between the 785 vs. 775.

Power output (stereo, 8 ohms within rated distortion 2 x 150W (21.8dbW) vs. 130W (21.1dbW)

IHF dynamic power 8 ohms 2 x 250W (23.9dBW) vs. 2 x 200W (23dBW)

Simultaneous power output surround mode 7 x 120W (20.8dBW) - [7 x 190W (22.8dbW)Minimum Continuous Power (FTC)] 7 x 100W (20dBW) - [7 x 165W (22.2dbW)Minimum Continuous Power (FTC)]

I know some of the numbers may not seem like much and some people would question just how much better is the sound between the two? All I can say is by buying the 785 you wont have to say to yourself "I wonder how much better the 785 would sound if I had it"

If you can hear the two on the same set of speakers that would be the best, but if not its just a bunch of specs that may or may not make a difference to you? Good luck in your choice. I am sure you will be happy with either AVR.

Scott
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post #726 of 4314 Old 12-28-2007, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

The T785 would definitely drive your B&W's more efficiently (than the T775).

If by "efficient", you mean burn more power while driving them, then yes, it is more efficient

John
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post #727 of 4314 Old 12-28-2007, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

If by "efficient", you mean burn more power while driving them, then yes, it is more efficient

or, at least, drive them (and many other speakers) more easily. I'd rather have more power than not.
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post #728 of 4314 Old 12-28-2007, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

or, at least, drive them (and many other speakers) more easily. I'd rather have more power than not.

Fair enough, but since sound level varies logarithmically with wattage, not linearly, the modest power difference between the 775 and 785 is pretty darn close to rounding error. You need a substantial increase in power to make an audible difference under normal circumstances.
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post #729 of 4314 Old 12-28-2007, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

or, at least, drive them (and many other speakers) more easily. I'd rather have more power than not.

Oh, sure, I was just poking fun for using the word "efficient"! It's like buying a V8 to get better gas mileage Maybe you just meant "effortless"

John
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post #730 of 4314 Old 12-28-2007, 05:10 PM
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More info

http://www.audioproducts.com.au/down...ber%202007.pdf

Ken
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post #731 of 4314 Old 12-28-2007, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nek View Post

More info

http://www.audioproducts.com.au/down...ber%202007.pdf

Ken

Very good stuff here. For me, it was interesting to read that audio quality of digital coax is better than the audio coming over HDMI. (I wish they could quantify the difference.) But for the highest quality audio format -- Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD -- you have to use HDMI. A slight contradiction? So does this mean you lose some of the quality of Dolby TrueHD when using HDMI because HDMI is inferior to digital coax?

Also, finally also got a good explaination for some of the quirks of Audyssey.
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post #732 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 12:45 AM
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I am now on my second 775, this was a replacement I received today. This is hot from NAD with the 1.12 firmware and latest hardware, still a bag of nails with HDMI though.
The last one I had would not connect to my PS3 at all with HDMI. This one is exactly the same. My PS3 connects to my Toshiba TV fine via HDMI. I tested my PVR and that doesn't work either. I have tried multiple cables. Tomorrow, I'm taking the NAD back to the shop, getting my money back and closing the book on the NAD 775. I think I'll wait for Arcam or Rotel. Very upset by the whole thing, It has almost ruined my Christmas as I have been waiting for this product for over a year and had high hopes. Alas even on a second effort this receiver still doesn't work as advertised. I'm not like baseball, I'm not a 3 strikes and you are out kind a guy, you get one chance to make a mistake and one chance to correct your mistake. If you don't come good, then your done.
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post #733 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis1 View Post

I am now on my second 775, this was a replacement I received today. I'm taking the NAD back to the shop, getting my money back and closing the book on the NAD 775

that's too bad
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post #734 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis1 View Post

I am now on my second 775, this was a replacement I received today. This is hot from NAD with the 1.12 firmware and latest hardware, still a bag of nails with HDMI though.
The last one I had would not connect to my PS3 at all with HDMI. This one is exactly the same. My PS3 connects to my Toshiba TV fine via HDMI. I tested my PVR and that doesn't work either. I have tried multiple cables. Tomorrow, I'm taking the NAD back to the shop, getting my money back and closing the book on the NAD 775. I think I'll wait for Arcam or Rotel. Very upset by the whole thing, It has almost ruined my Christmas as I have been waiting for this product for over a year and had high hopes. Alas even on a second effort this receiver still doesn't work as advertised. I'm not like baseball, I'm not a 3 strikes and you are out kind a guy, you get one chance to make a mistake and one chance to correct your mistake. If you don't come good, then your done.

I can well understand your frustration..

Can you let us know what your dealer's response is, in regards to your issues with the T775 - are they getting the same issues in the shop

Ken
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post #735 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 06:56 AM
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Hi Ken,

Seems its still a bit of a nightmare with these new NAD's?

Any news yet on your 785?

While I have been waiting I have changed my projector to give me something to play with!

Best Wishes

Gary
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post #736 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 09:05 AM
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I don't know what's up with Sony but they always have to screw with things. I bought some Accell switcher the other day and they actually say something like "tested for use with PS3" or something like that. While it is important that NAD figures out a way to make sure it works with PS3s (assuming this is all PS3s, not just yours), it's still really Sony's fault because they *always* screw with accepted standards.

As for PVRs, if it's a Dish, it should work perfectly and that would be NAD if it doesn't work. If it's a Direct TV, well, those are sketchy and we have a lot of problems with the cables not working in them or inserting properly or the signal dropping. Not sure about other machines. Dish Network, not Direct is the choice if you want reliability. Sony is not the choice if you want interoperability. Sony is designed to work with Sony. They're the Japanese version of Microsoft.

Also, seriously, not trying just to shift blame here, we *actually* tell people that if they own Sony or Direct TV products, that we can't guarantee flawless operation as a system! It could still be NAD, but it sounds like you probably own the two products I wouldn't. Do you have the PS3 upgraded? There have been a few updates and one was supposed to deal with HDMI issues as I recall.

John
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post #737 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 09:22 AM
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These handshake issues keep me going back to a proven analog receiver like Arcam. I love the concept of the NAD receivers but I cannot afford to keep one of these for a few months then take a 50% hit on the used market when I sell if it does not work for me. I know an Arcam 350 will sound great and work fine. Still on the fence....
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post #738 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Spaniard View Post

Hi Ken,

Seems its still a bit of a nightmare with these new NAD's?

Hi Gary, a nightmare indeed !

To be fair, I think most manufacturers are getting caught out by HDMI glitches. My stance on it is for patience regarding these issues, as they will be gradually ironed out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Spaniard View Post

Any news yet on your 785?

2 weeks for mine as I opted for the silver finish - I could of had the new graphite finish before Christmas, but resisted the temptation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Spaniard View Post

While I have been waiting I have changed my projector to give me something to play with!

What PJ is it?

I was going to upgrade from my Sanyo Z3 until I piped HD through it recently.

I am keeping my Z3 for the time being as the picture is fantastic once you feed it a good source

Ken
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post #739 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis1 View Post

I am now on my second 775, this was a replacement I received today. This is hot from NAD with the 1.12 firmware and latest hardware, still a bag of nails with HDMI though.
The last one I had would not connect to my PS3 at all with HDMI. This one is exactly the same. My PS3 connects to my Toshiba TV fine via HDMI. I tested my PVR and that doesn't work either. I have tried multiple cables. Tomorrow, I'm taking the NAD back to the shop, getting my money back and closing the book on the NAD 775. I think I'll wait for Arcam or Rotel. Very upset by the whole thing, It has almost ruined my Christmas as I have been waiting for this product for over a year and had high hopes. Alas even on a second effort this receiver still doesn't work as advertised. I'm not like baseball, I'm not a 3 strikes and you are out kind a guy, you get one chance to make a mistake and one chance to correct your mistake. If you don't come good, then your done.

We have plenty of problems with HDMI of any type. So your saying both your PS3 and PVR will not display video when connected with HDMI to the NAD? I wonder if any other Bluray player will work?
The PVR not working seems like a bigger concern? What kind is it?
As mentioned Sony tends to screw around with things. For example;we could not get a Sony DVD player to connect(HDMI) to a Sony projector when passed through a Gefen switcher. Motorola cable boxes worked fine however.
Many custom installers are sticking with component video for their installations. Staying away from HDMI. It saves a bunch of service calls.
Widescreen Review is calling for a 1080p standard for component video. "Works everytime" is the quote as I recall
Early Adoptor blues I would say. The NAD has allot to offer other than the HDMI capabilities? The Audyssey eq system is worth the price of admission. IMHO.
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post #740 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 10:01 AM
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Has anyone had success w/a Toshiba HD DVD player, hopefully XA2?

Noah
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post #741 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 10:44 AM
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I can't find anywhere the warantee on NAD receivers. How many years is it? I only have a Toshiba A2 that is hdmi compatible in my system now. So if I don't add other devices for a year or 2 and then find an issue, will I be supported if I need a hardware change?

Phil Tomaskovic
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post #742 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow 8 View Post

These handshake issues keep me going back to a proven analog receiver like Arcam. I love the concept of the NAD receivers but I cannot afford to keep one of these for a few months then take a 50% hit on the used market when I sell if it does not work for me. I know an Arcam 350 will sound great and work fine. Still on the fence....

Well, you can still use just component video on the NAD! Look, the problem here is that people don't adhere precisely to specs for HDMI. The only way to know that your unit works flawlessly is to try it with *every* possibly combination of sources and displays. That is basically an infinitely large task. This reminds of early DVD when every time a company came out with a new disc, the DVD companies had to build in a fix for the off spec movies!!!

Like I said, if you buy Sony or Direct TV, I'd be careful and make sure it works as some products work, others don't. If you don't have Sony or Direct TV, then NADs (and most other things) will probably work flawlessly.

Is it likely NAD will have to come up with fixes for compatibility issues that pop up? Sure. That's why you make the units modular and software upgradeable. Obviously, they're working on this stuff or software upgrades wouldn't be flying out the door.

John
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post #743 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Tomaskovic View Post

I can't find anywhere the warantee on NAD receivers. How many years is it? I only have a Toshiba A2 that is hdmi compatible in my system now. So if I don't add other devices for a year or 2 and then find an issue, will I be supported if I need a hardware change?

2 years. I don't know, but I suspect most fixes will be via software. At some point, I would expect an HDMI card upgrade but that will probably be to add technology rather than fix compatibility issues.

John
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post #744 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 01:17 PM
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Wonderful. I was getting two T785s for my two systems, both of which have, guess what? Sony PS3 and DirecTV DVR. My principal reason was to get the new codecs on Blu Ray, but looks like that's at best iffy with the NADs for now. I now have two B&K AVR507s which sound great, but have no HDMI, and, thus no new codecs.

I guess I'll keep reading here until the apparent Sony & DirectTV/NAD HDMI bug gets worked out to get my T785s, if it ever is. Or maybe I'll just stick with my B&Ks.
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post #745 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Sony is not the choice if you want interoperability. Sony is designed to work with Sony. They're the Japanese version of Microsoft.

I find your comments very interesting, in part because I work on a standards team in a major software company.

What's your inter-op experience with Samsung? It's probably my preferred choice for a flat screen display (to pair with a NAD receiver).

Thanks.
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post #746 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 02:38 PM
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This is ridiculous. About 90% of all Blu-Ray players are PS3s. It is not an 'infinitely large task' to test your receiver with the single most common Hi-Def source it is likely to be used with. What a crock.
If my NAD doesn't work with my PS3 then its going back.
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post #747 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 03:23 PM
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I just pulled the trigger on the 785 and PP-2 phono preamp!

Phil Tomaskovic
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post #748 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 04:23 PM
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Here is an update.
The T775 is gone but it might be back. We got to the bottom of the problem and it is indeed a problem with the NAD. The NAD will let you create a source to use component Video and HDMI audio. This allows you to select say the PS3 source. The component video is selected and output to the display device while the HI-Def audio is taken from the HDMI. This is a perfect solution for people who have a display that only accepts component but want to access the hidef audio.
Sadly even though the NAD allows you to configure the source like this and does switch the component, it forgets to actually initialise the HDMI link for the Audio part.
I know for some reason it is fashionable on this site to knock every thing Sony and blame them for the worlds ills. However, this is not one of those times. The PS3 is now hooked up to a Pioneer elite which is correctly switching component video while sourcing Audio from the HDMI as the NAD should have done. I'm sorry the NAD had to go back, I really wanted it to work. Maybe in the future it will. But for right now the Pioneer sounds mighty good playing back "Brothers in ARMS SACD" via the PS3. I will continue to follow this thread with interest. Maybe when firmware 1.15 comes out for the NAD will deliver the goods.
I found one interesting thing from A NAD application engineer, that I spoke to yesterday and that is the T175 and T785 have a more powerful DSP processor then the T775.

One last thing the PS3 works fine with the NAD when connected to a HDMI display.
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post #749 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 04:48 PM
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"The NAD will let you create a source to use component Video and HDMI audio."

If the input is 1080i or P, what resolution is output on component?

"the T175 and T785 have a more powerful DSP processor then the T775."

Did you ask to what use it's put? Any effect on sound, or maybe just control over more zones etc?

Noah
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post #750 of 4314 Old 12-29-2007, 05:05 PM
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Phew
Thanks for the update nemesis1
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