The NAD T775/T785 AVRs w/ HDMI 1.3 Thread! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by raffiafinati View Post

I wonder if those who are more in the know in regards to these two units could explain in more detail some of the reasons if would be well worth it to spend the extra money and go with the 775 instead of the 765.

it's been discussed a bit earlier in this thread, but in my opinion the greatest advantage is audio over HDMI. For me, that is a necessary feature. The t765 does not support this out of the box. Also, I wanted a bit more power for my relatively inefficient b&w's. if neither of these is an issue for you, the t765 is likely a fine choice.

one other point that may or may not interest you is that the t775 and t785 both come with audyssey multiEQ XT processing. The t765 only has the audyssey auto-calibration features. MultiEQ XT adds room-correction, and from what I have read this is a very nice feature indeed.

according to the nad website, here is that the t765 offers via audyssey:
"Audyssey automatically detects speakers, chooses the ideal crossovers, verifies speaker phase and adjusts levels/delays."

The t775 and t785 offer that, as well as this:
"The T 785 and T 775 receivers, and T 175 pre-pro further add Audyssey's highly developed MultEQ XT Room Correction. MultEQ XT exploits sophisticated, proprietary time-domain digital signal processing to reduce the impact of room acoustics upon sonic accuracy, with a truly unique ability to yield a family sized sweet-spot, and to accomplish real gains in accuracy. Equally important, NAD collaborated with Audyssey to develop proprietary target curves that yield real-world response that reflect NAD's commitment to music first, and genuinely accurate reproduction."
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post #92 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raffiafinati View Post

I wonder if those who are more in the know in regards to these two units could explain in more detail some of the reasons if would be well worth it to spend the extra money and go with the 775 instead of the 765.

The T775 has a different HDMI board, instead of being a simple HDMI switch, it has an HDMI receiver/transmitter on the board. It is capable of receiver 8 channels of LPCM (up to 96k) audio over the HDMI cable. Since there is more bandwidth for audio over HDMI than there is over TOSLINK/optical - there is room for better quality audio.

The T775 can convert analog video inputs to HDMI.

The T775 has a full implementation of Audyssey MultEQ XT, where the T765 only has setup.

The T775 has an iPod interface (which I believe is coming on later models of the T765 also?).

All of these features, plus more power ... it looks like a better buy to me.
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post #93 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by dan1010 View Post

It is capable of receiver 8 channels of LPCM (up to 96k)

I think it will take 8 channels LPCM up to 192khz, not 96khz. The D/A converters are 192khz in the new NAD receivers. It is my understanding that the A/D converters are limited to 96khz, but not the D/A. Can anyone clarify?
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post #94 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jnc1 View Post

I think it will take 8 channels LPCM up to 192khz, not 96khz. The D/A converters are 192khz in the new NAD receivers. It is my understanding that the A/D converters are limited to 96khz, but not the D/A. Can anyone clarify?

I always hear about 192khz but does any source material actually exist? I have never been able to find any.
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post #95 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by dan1010 View Post

I always hear about 192khz but does any source material actually exist? I have never been able to find any.

I'm not sure about source material, but to me it's important that it be able to do it. I think the spec for HDMI/blu-ray is 24/96 for up to 8 channels, or 24/192 for up to 6 channels. I would assume that there are blu-ray titles with uncompressed PCM soundtracks in 5.1 that are 24/192.
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post #96 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 11:12 AM
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"I just confirmed that the T775 is in the mail. Should have it on wednesday."

Great, we're dying to hear about it!

What country are you in?

Noah
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post #97 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jnc1 View Post

I just confirmed that the T775 is in the mail. Should have it on wednesday.


Where did you order it from?
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post #98 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"I just confirmed that the T775 is in the mail. Should have it on wednesday."

Great, we're dying to hear about it!

What country are you in?

USA. I got it from a local dealer. I'm new to these forums and I've heard that we are not supposed to mention businesses or pricing, so I'll leave it at that. The dealer was in MA, if that helps.
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post #99 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 12:28 PM
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Hi JNC1,

Will be really interested to hear your views on the 775 - cant wait!

Ken, Small world isn't it mate! Where did you order your 785 from and did you get a good deal? I would love to hearit when you get it if I haven't already bought anything by then (LOL)!

What made you go for the 785 over the 775?

I would be interested to hear from you guys re the differences between the 775 and the 785 - I know we touched on this yesterday but surely it cant just be a better remote and a slight increase in power.......can it?

Best Wishes

Gary
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post #100 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by the Spaniard View Post

I would be interested to hear from you guys re the differences between the 775 and the 785 - I know we touched on this yesterday but surely it cant just be a better remote and a slight increase in power.......can it?

well, except for the rumoured dual-toroidal transformers in the t785...there was a link in the t175 thread in this forum (sorry I don't have the time to search for it) that listed the features of each receiver in the new NAD line. This was listed in that feature comparison sheet.

still, as far as features are concerned, the extra transformer (no doubt separates for the pre/pro and the amp sections of the unit), the extra power and the remote appear to be the only differences.

I'll know more tomorrow, I suppose
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post #101 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 01:11 PM
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Since we're talking about the differences between the 775 and 785, can anyone help me understand the 20dbW vs. 20.8dbW ratings? Is that significant? Would it be significant for bookshelf speakers in the 85-91dB sensitivity range with a powered sub?
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post #102 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by the Spaniard View Post

Hi JNC1,

Will be really interested to hear your views on the 775 - cant wait!

Ken, Small world isn't it mate! Where did you order your 785 from and did you get a good deal? I would love to hearit when you get it if I haven't already bought anything by then (LOL)!

What made you go for the 785 over the 775?

I would be interested to hear from you guys re the differences between the 775 and the 785 - I know we touched on this yesterday but surely it cant just be a better remote and a slight increase in power.......can it?

Hi Gary - Its an even smaller world, I have just noticed that you sold your 905 to Chris - He bought my Nad T163 processor from ebay a while ago - weird

I'm unable to post on AVforums due to falling out with a mod

Due to forum rules, I can't disclose where & how much I bought the T785 for, but a few shops will be stocking it by end of NOV.

I decided to Sell (Sony Tan 9000es) my 3 power amps and go back to integrated, so wanted it to be as powerful as possible with the SQ to boot - Enter the Nad t785

I have sort of been promised first delivery in the UK for the T785 - You can pop round for a listen if ya like if you are still in the hunt - be patient - I have been waiting for mine since March

Ken
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post #103 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnc1 View Post

I'll know more tomorrow, I suppose

Good luck mate - will you by any chance find out for us if you will be able to pipe SACD DSD down the HDMI and the 775 to accept.

My Pioneer Player can do this - the 775 should, as its 1.3 HDMI but you never know.

Cheers

Ken
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post #104 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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jnc1 can't wait to hear some reports. Take some pics too!

Here is the comparison pdf that I was mentioning before but could not find (because it was not on the NAD website).

http://www.jbstanton.com/Resources/NAD.pdf
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post #105 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nek View Post

I'm unable to post on AVforums due to falling out with a mod Ken

It wasn't someone called "RottenFox" was it as I have had some very interesting "exchanges" with this "gentleman" recently.

Very quickly as its off topic, I think they have a very nanny state attitude on AVF that I find pedantic and condascending - the problem is you cant express this view as they just delete your post! Very big brother!

Can you send me a pm re the dealer and price please of the 785 - I have done a bit of ringing around but obviously want to get the best deal possible.

Cheers Mate

Best Wishes

Gary
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post #106 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by nek View Post

Be patient - I have been waiting for mine since March Ken

I have got absolutely no chance waiting that long - I would hardly be able to wait that long for......er, March!

Cant wait for JNC1's feedback on the 775!

Best Wishes

Gary
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post #107 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyV View Post

jnc1 can't wait to hear some reports. Take some pics too!

Here is the comparison pdf that I was mentioning before but could not find (because it was not on the NAD website).

http://www.jbstanton.com/Resources/NAD.pdf

Yep, that confirms that the T765 is HDMI Video only
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post #108 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by nek View Post

Good luck mate - will you by any chance find out for us if you will be able to pipe SACD DSD down the HDMI and the 775 to accept.

My Pioneer Player can do this - the 775 should, as its 1.3 HDMI but you never know.

Cheers

Ken

that is one of the first things I plan to test
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post #109 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 04:23 PM
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"USA. I got it from a local dealer."

Great, I didn't think they'd be out in the States this soon.

Are you going to go with the Audyssey Pro? Either way, did you happen to inquire if dealers would sell the install kit to consumers?

Would you happen to have a Toshiba XA2 HD DVD player? I'm dying toknow if they play nice together.

Thanks

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post #110 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 06:02 PM
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dBW or decibels per watt is a more accurate measurement of what more watts per channel means. To get double the level of sound in dBs you need ten times the power, not twice; it's logarithmic. So 50 watts per channel more may seem like a lot, but it's not. It's less than 1 dBW more.

But you must realize that at moderate listening levels, you're usually using only one watt per channel or so. Twice the volume, using ten watts per channel. Twice again, 100 watts per channel. If you want twice again, you need 1000 watts per channel and no ear drums. So adding 50 watts per channel to a 100 watts per channel is,,,well,,,next to nothing.
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post #111 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"USA. I got it from a local dealer."

Great, I didn't think they'd be out in the States this soon.

Are you going to go with the Audyssey Pro? Either way, did you happen to inquire if dealers would sell the install kit to consumers?

Would you happen to have a Toshiba XA2 HD DVD player? I'm dying toknow if they play nice together.

Thanks

I hadn't considered this. I might give it a shot if the dealer will sell to me. I don't have an HD DVD player. I have a PS3 as a blu-ray and sacd player. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it I don't think the PS3 will output a DSD bitstream, so I don't know if I'll be able to test that either. Here's my setup:

-PS3
-NAD T775 (hopefully )
-Pioneer Elite CLD59 Laserdisc player
-Sony VPLVW50
-stewart firehawk SST 100" screen
-B&W LCR6 S2, front 3 channels
-B&W 601 S3, left and right surrounds (I also have a pair of 602 S3's that I might swap here)
-B&W DS6 S3 single rear surround

To power the system previously I had a B&K Reference 30 pre/pro and 3 stereo amps: 2 adcom gfa-5300's and a single NAD 214. whether I am upgrading or downgrading is a discussion for another thread. Suffice to say it is a change with which I am comfortable.

I'm taking a chance with the NAD T775 because I don't know how it will handle a 6.1 setup. Again, I'll find out soon enough and I'll let everyone know what I find. I don't know if I'll have the courage to pull the cover off of it, but I'll see if I can get you some pictures of it with its clothes on.
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post #112 of 4310 Old 10-09-2007, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

dBW or decibels per watt is a more accurate measurement of what more watts per channel means. To get double the level of sound in dBs you need ten times the power, not twice; it's logarithmic. So 50 watts per channel more may seem like a lot, but it's not. It's less than 1 dBW more.

But you must realize that at moderate listening levels, you're usually using only one watt per channel or so. Twice the volume, using ten watts per channel. Twice again, 100 watts per channel. If you want twice again, you need 1000 watts per channel and no ear drums. So adding 50 watts per channel to a 100 watts per channel is,,,well,,,next to nothing.

Thanks, Robert. At first I was like, "Sweet, I can save money and get the T775 since the power differential is nothing."
But then I started thinking, "Well, if that's true, then is there really any benefit to the NAD power supplies over something like the Pioneer Elite 94TX?"

NAD has a lot of marketing stuff on their website about other companies inflating their power specs. So does that really matter?
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post #113 of 4310 Old 10-10-2007, 10:50 AM
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Better power supplies are always better for a number of reasons: lower distortion, generally less heat output, bettersound, more listening power. WPC RMS gives the amps ability to produce a sustained level of wattage. This is very useful if you listen to sine waves; not music or movies, which constantly vary in level.

A better power supply means that the amp can put out peak power far beyond the WPC RMS. NAD excels at this; others don't. If you have a lousy power supply that can generate 100wpc, but little beyond that for peaks, you'll get clipping (amp running out of power and putting out square waves instead of sine waves) and distortion.

Yes, others fudge their specs. You supposedly can't for RMS, as that is dictated by the FTC. But you can give the spec w/1 or2 or 7 channels running, at 1k Hz (easy to produce) or 20-20k Hz, and at any level of distortion you choose. That looseness in the FTC RMS spec allows for what amounts to false claims of power, and makes it extremely difficult o compare products objectively.

If you have ever seen a review of a "100 watt per channel rec'r" that does 100 WPC with one or two channel runnings, and drops to something like 33 wpc with 5 or7 channels running, you're reading a review of an amp with a poor power supply.

There once was a spec. widely used called dynamic headroom (in dBs), which measured the amps ability to put out the peak power referred to above. Very few use this spec anymore, probably because they'd be so poor. At least NAD gives IHF power, which gives you an idea of what the peak power capabilitites of its equipment are.

Incidentally, NAD is the only company I've seen which gives power ratings in WPC and dBW. There may be others.
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post #114 of 4310 Old 10-10-2007, 11:09 AM
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yeah, I really love their amps. I'm using three NAD C272's (150W X 2 each) in my system right now along with a Yamaha RX-V2700 (as pre-pro only), and Energy RC-Series speakers (RC-30 fronts, RC-LCR center, RC-R rears), it sounds beautiful! Good power. I think the best amplification for the price.

I'm waiting for a T175 (already bought and paid for). I'm hoping to see a major improvement in sound-quality over the Yamaha receiver (which is not bad), especially for music.
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post #115 of 4310 Old 10-10-2007, 11:12 AM
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"Better power supplies are always better for a number of reasons: lower distortion, generally less heat output, bettersound, more listening power. WPC RMS gives the amps ability to produce a sustained level of wattage. This is very useful if you listen to sine waves; not music or movies, which constantly vary in level.

A better power supply means that the amp can put out peak power far beyond the WPC RMS."

These are generalizations which may or not be true.

High dynamic vs. rms power may simply be a sign of a power transformer too small to keep the filter caps full.

And a better supply may have more components that dissipate more heat.

Noah
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post #116 of 4310 Old 10-10-2007, 12:06 PM
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Thanks for the info on amps, guys. I guess my question is whether these differences are audible. In a normal size theater room (15x18x8) with normal bookshelf speakers (88-91dB sensitivity) and a powered sub (Fathom f113), should the power supply differences between a NAD T775 or T785 and a Pioneer 94TX be audible? (I've never had any clipping with my Pioneer 84TX even listening at what I considered to be deafening levels.)
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post #117 of 4310 Old 10-10-2007, 01:15 PM
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Almost certainly, NO.
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post #118 of 4310 Old 10-10-2007, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

Almost certainly, NO.

Wow, ok. So what would be the reasons to go with something like the T775 or T785 that cost $900 and $1400 more than the Pioneer? (and I swear I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, honestly trying to learn about this since I can't really demo the NAD stuff)

For instance, the only NAD dealer close to me also sells Pioneer Elite. When I asked him about the two, he said the NAD stuff "will smoke anything from the Japanese manufacturers like Pioneer Elite". But that doesn't really tell me how.
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post #119 of 4310 Old 10-10-2007, 05:19 PM
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"So what would be the reasons to go with something like the T775 or T785 that cost $900 and $1400 more than the Pioneer?"

I don't see the value of the 785 being worth the extra cost over the 775.

Re 775 vs. Pio, the only way to know for sure would be to set them both up and compare.

I'm skeptical of the alleged intrinsic sound quality differences of decent equipment, but so the big factor is MCACC vs. Audyssey.

Noah
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post #120 of 4310 Old 10-10-2007, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Re 775 vs. Pio, the only way to know for sure would be to set them both up and compare.

I know. But that's so tough. Even if I had both of them in the same room, it seems like it would be exceedingly tough to do an A/B comparison unless you had a speaker switching setup. And even tougher since my dealer isn't going to stock either of the NADs, I'd have to have them special order it for me.

Quote:
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I'm skeptical of the alleged intrinsic sound quality differences of decent equipment, but so the big factor is MCACC vs. Audyssey.

Yeah, I'm skeptical of this also. Especially since several folks who had the older flagship Pioneer Elite receivers have gone with the new 94TX and are saying they can't hear any difference even though the 94TX is allegedly very inferior when it comes to the power supplies.
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