The NAD T775/T785 AVRs w/ HDMI 1.3 Thread! - Page 58 - AVS Forum
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post #1711 of 4310 Old 10-10-2008, 12:53 PM
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Sstiles4, yeah I have been loosely following oppo's new Blu-ray player. Tell you the truth, If I didn't have the the 983 and the Ps3 already, I'd just pick up their new BD player and call it a day. They've proven themselves time after time with quality products....and I expect their BD player to do what the 983 does for upconversion and play BDs flawlessly (even supporting bitstream output I'm sure). But who knows....maybe my "disease" will kick in and I'll splurge for another BD player (wife will kill me, for sure) if I can justify a difference in having the t785 (assuming it's upgraded as well) decoding the lossless codecs. But I am perfectly happy with the setup I got right now, I also have a htpc hooked up to the receiver and it's working just fine. I'd say you're doing the right thing waiting for that oppo BD player, could really be something.
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post #1712 of 4310 Old 10-10-2008, 12:55 PM
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I'll also chime in on the pop and clicks coming from speakers when the source is changing modes etc.....it still happens occassionally with the ps3 and other sources I'm feeding (oppo 983h and htpc) but I can say it's not often. This is with 1.16.....but the issue definitey is not completely gone.....changing hdmi cables (assuming it's not absolute trash to start with) I would say serves more of a placebo effect as a fix since the issue is totally random.
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post #1713 of 4310 Old 10-10-2008, 03:16 PM
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I would concur with that. I've actually gone through 3 different HDMI cables, but the last 2 I feel have been quality. They were both Blue Jeans Cable, the first being their very thick and stiff bonded pair cable, which for my short length (5 ft) was just overkill, and the second is their other bonded pair Belden-made cable designed for shorter runs. It's hard not to fault the 785 given that we went through such a serious period of pops from the beginning and a fix was needed. I think it's just not quite worked out yet and the engineers will need another firmware or NAD will need to come up with a solution of some sort. To be honest, I feel that if they're aware of the continuing issue then they'll make it right, they seem to have been working very hard on issues up to this point. Ultimately, if they were always just the minor clicks then I could live with it given the sheer quality of sound. But the flip side of having a $2-3K investment that one shouldn't have to "live with" is also hard to argue, ya know?
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post #1714 of 4310 Old 10-10-2008, 05:50 PM
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I agree with you there, this receiver is hard to beat for the investment and there is little you can ask for the receiver to do better (OK I lied, my main gripe is still decoding lossless codecs, but that's comin in a modular upgrade =P). Having the occassional clicks and pops does bug me while sources are initializing at random times but ultimately I don't feel like it could do any damage to my speakers so I am ok there. But I know what you mean, it is still a hefty investment and if it can be fixed via a firmware update, we should expect it and I'm sure NAD is cooking up something in their nest now.
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post #1715 of 4310 Old 10-11-2008, 07:40 AM
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hughej,

Yes, I still get ticks and clicks when switching channels on my SA8300HDC cable box, when the receiver changes audio modes, and when changing functions on my other devices. It is worse when Audyssey is engaged, and bettter with no Audyssey. The cable box is connected over optical, and everything else is over HDMI. I can sometimes get a louder pop on the cable box when going back to PLAY after using DVR functions like FFWD, REV.

My PS3 can create a loud digital "crash" sound when mode switching, especially if the HDTV is changing resolutions at the same time. I have been able to eliminate the "crash" by trial and error, finding the right HDMI cable and the right port on the T775. A 6 foot Monoprice 1.3a certified cat 2 cable into HDMI port 1 on the T775 works best, but I usually have to do a full HDCP reset - cut power to everything, unplug all HDMI cables, wait for a while, and then re-plug and repower. The cable may not make much difference, but the port clearly does.

I had this problem when I first got the PS3, and a full HDCP reset cured it. With the next PS3 firmware update it came back and wouldn't go away. After I got the HDMI hardware update on the T775 the crash was still there but I was able to find the workaround above.

I think this is an HDCP/HDMI timing issue caused to tolerance stack up in all of the components. Since I am running the PS3 through the T775 to a Sony XBR4 HDTV, I am thinking it is probably a Sony thing - their devices don't like having a 3rd party device between them. The fact that firmware updates on the PS3 make the problem come and go without any wiring changes to my system really points to Sony as the problem.

Here's something I found out recently:

The pre-out board update that was implemented to solve the loud popping problem on the T175 doesn't really help the T775. It still allows the "crash" with the PS3, but does seem to prevent the louder pops with the cable box. Basically, the mod seems to mute the audio a little faster during any mode change which helps somewhat in preventing the ticks and pops. The problem for me is that it added a minor tick every time the sound came back on. So you trade a random tick that might be a bit louder on occasion for a minor tick that is softer but present every time.

Since we know that NAD's firmware updates have improved this problem over the past several months, I'm thinking future updates will improve it further of solve it completely. I don't think it's a hardware issue.

Just to make things a little weirder, I disconnected the optical cable for the cable box from port 1 on the T775 cleaned the end with glass cleaner, and connected it to port 2, which seems to have made a difference in the ticks. They are still there but somewhat improved. Go figure.
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post #1716 of 4310 Old 10-11-2008, 09:56 AM
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I've only had this happen on one blu-ray, others play with only minor ticks. The ps3 pop was the worst since all the fixes, and I've read elsewhere about Sony products not liking a 3rd party joining in the fun. Still it comes back to the 785 for me, and I'm fairly confident they'll get it resolved altogether as well...I hope. To me the frustrating part of it is how random it seems to occur which makes it near impossible to find the culprit, but makes me think the firmware/hardware fix from NAD only partially addressed it. I drive my wife nuts with all the pausing, rew, ffw, stop, etc I do to try to compare what causes it and doesn't - she thinks I'm nuts which I guess speaks to how "minor" the ticks are most of the time.
Anyway, I just wanted to be sure others were still having this problem as I hadn't seen it mentioned in some time. I recently spoke with Bob Moran via email and he said to check back later this fall for a possible firmware update to address the clicking/popping, but also said he's had very few reports of it still being an issue after 1.16 and the hardware fixes. I'd imagine they read these blogs so perhaps this will help get some attn to a resolution. I too am excited about the prospect of board upgrades and how they will structure them...next couple months should prove interesting.
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post #1717 of 4310 Old 10-11-2008, 07:27 PM
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Go ahead and try different combinations of ports until you find one that eliminates the PS3 "crash". Doing the HDCP full reset also helps. I have found that any hardware or wiring change to my HDMI setup usually re-introduces the issue, but the full reset usually makes it go away.
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post #1718 of 4310 Old 10-12-2008, 04:17 AM
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Hi all-
While I don't have a 775 or 785, I do have the T175, which is the cousin to those units. Over in this thread, you can see that were having the popping issues as well. I spoke with Bob Moran on the phone Friday, and believe it or not, they're having trouble replicating our problems in the shop.
Please, please, please, if anyone is having any of these issues, call or email Bob. Give him as much info as possible. When does it pop,cable types and lengths, other equipment, etc.
I've already had my 175 in the shop, and it has both board fixes, and up-to-date firmware. And it still pops. To say this is all frustrating would be an understatement, to say the least.
On a side note, has anyone here successfully passed a 192k signal through their unit via HDMI? SACD playback from a PS3 should do this. None of our 175s will, and according to Bob, they should. Neither my PS3 or my Pioneer DV79 can send 192k to it. Chalk that one up on the problem board as well...

As to when my unit pops, if a digital signal is present for a while(10-15min with no changes) it will pop when the input is changed, digital sample rate changes(cable box switching channels), or even simply muting the unit. Pops on mute, and unmute. Go figure. After pressing mute 6-8 times, the popping goes away for awhile. But it comes back. It always does...

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post #1719 of 4310 Old 10-12-2008, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by /dev/null View Post

On a side note, has anyone here successfully passed a 192k signal through their unit via HDMI? SACD playback from a PS3 should do this. None of our 175s will, and according to Bob, they should. Neither my PS3 or my Pioneer DV79 can send 192k to it. Chalk that one up on the problem board as well...

I have some DVD-Audio's that are 192KHz. Prior to the NAD 785 I had my Denon 3930 connected to a Denon 2807 through HDMI. With the 3930/2807 I could play these DVD-Audio's without problem. I am not able to have 192KHz passed from the 3930 to the 785 over HDMI. So this is something that do not work with the NAD 785.
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post #1720 of 4310 Old 10-12-2008, 12:56 PM
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The auto HDMI setup on my PS3 indicates that my T775 does not support 192 KHz input over HDMI. My Oppo 980 won't even let me change the LPCM rate from 48 KHz, but that might be an Oppo issue. When I use the Oppo to play SACD's converted to LPCM over HDMI, the T775 indicates 88.2 KHz.

I don't have any 192 KHz material, but based on the above, I don't think it would work. Realistically 96 KHz is enough for virtually all listeners, but the specs do say these models support 192 KHz so it should work.
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post #1721 of 4310 Old 10-12-2008, 02:01 PM
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I've dealt with the last of the very few hardware issues I had with my customers' NADs and I believe now that the popping problem comes, not from the cards, but from the chassis. WHY, I don't know. But I had a customer who had a defective chip in his HDMI board, but otherwise flawless. NAD asked for the whole thing back, even though I really just wanted to swap the board as I was 99% sure the problem was on the board, not the chassis. But we swapped the machine. The problem? This one popped. We did the mod, same issue. Swapped in with a third unit, works great.

So, my advice remains, and hopefully Bob won't kill me, if you have a problem that isn't fixed in software or a board mod, immediately ask for a replacement. Odds are, it will be just fine. Somewhere in the manufacturing process, a percentage of the chassis' are just off enough to cause the problem, but thus far, it's been a small percentage. We have not been able to create an environmental or setup problem or even a board related problem, so I'm 90% sure it's a chassis issue, not a card or system issue.

John
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post #1722 of 4310 Old 10-13-2008, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAD Paradigm View Post

The auto HDMI setup on my PS3 indicates that my T775 does not support 192 KHz input over HDMI. My Oppo 980 won't even let me change the LPCM rate from 48 KHz, but that might be an Oppo issue. When I use the Oppo to play SACD's converted to LPCM over HDMI, the T775 indicates 88.2 KHz.

I don't have any 192 KHz material, but based on the above, I don't think it would work. Realistically 96 KHz is enough for virtually all listeners, but the specs do say these models support 192 KHz so it should work.

It works for 24/96KHz DVD-Audio , but not for 24/192KHz. I have The Alan Parsons Project "Eye In The Sky" , HDAD2011
When I try to play the 192KHz DVD-Audio the "Digital" sign on the T785 begins to blink. Shifting DVD-Audio to the 96KHz one makes "Digital" stop blinking. So I have concluded that it does not work ;-)
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post #1723 of 4310 Old 10-13-2008, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

I've dealt with the last of the very few hardware issues I had with my customers' NADs and I believe now that the popping problem comes, not from the cards, but from the chassis. WHY, I don't know. But I had a customer who had a defective chip in his HDMI board, but otherwise flawless. NAD asked for the whole thing back, even though I really just wanted to swap the board as I was 99% sure the problem was on the board, not the chassis. But we swapped the machine. The problem? This one popped. We did the mod, same issue. Swapped in with a third unit, works great.

So, my advice remains, and hopefully Bob won't kill me, if you have a problem that isn't fixed in software or a board mod, immediately ask for a replacement. Odds are, it will be just fine. Somewhere in the manufacturing process, a percentage of the chassis' are just off enough to cause the problem, but thus far, it's been a small percentage. We have not been able to create an environmental or setup problem or even a board related problem, so I'm 90% sure it's a chassis issue, not a card or system issue.

I think we need to make sure everyone understands that there are three different issues going on here.

The T175 can experience rather loud pops, especially when switching inputs, and the preamp output board update was implemented to address this issue. The update removes about a dozen capacitors which affect the timing of the audio relays used to mute the outputs during mode switching.

The T775/T785 do not have audio relays like the T175. Instead they use electronic switching to mute the outputs, so for the most part they don't get the pop issue. My T775 is completely silent when switching inputs. What I do get is ticks, clicks, or snaps when changing functions on a source component. This improved significantly with the latest firmware, but it is still there. As I have found, the preamp output board update intended for the T175 doesn't really help on the T775. The ticks are not loud enough to do any harm, and are more of an annoyance than anything else.

The HDMI audio "crash" is a third issue that I'm not sure NAD has been able to duplicate. It may be specific to the HDCP firmware in my Sony XBR4 LCD for all I know.
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post #1724 of 4310 Old 10-13-2008, 09:37 AM
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Just to throw in my two cents, I had some of the "click" issues (the annoying ones, not the loud pops) in my 785 when I first purchased the unit. I believe I had one of the first units, since I receieved it back around Christmas time. After upgrading the firmware from 1.10 to 1.16 and changing my HDMI wire to a "flat" HDMI wire, I have had zero clicks.

I definately do not promote high end cables, actually the flat HDMI cable I purchased was only about $30 for a 6 ft cable, but what I have read is that the signal is passed via flat cable better then standard round cable. I dont know how true it is, but like I said since I upgraded to 1.16 and connected the flat cable I have had zero clicks. Good luck guys.
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post #1725 of 4310 Old 10-13-2008, 09:52 AM
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I've got the 785, and have also had 2 hardware fixes done via service center and have the latest 1.16 firmware installed. I don't know the technicals of the hardware work but the service center made the comment that normally they're having to add parts and not remove them, also was on an email chain that mentioned removing capacitors - so perhaps the 175 and 785 popping problems are not all that unrelated? The most common noise I get now is also the small clicks which I agree don't sound like they'd do harm but are mildly annoying. However, I'd also say that about 20% of the clicks are more like louder snaps (good description NAD Paradigm!) and those don't sound healthy depending on the volume level. I've only actually had 2 occasions since having the hardware fixes done that I would call pops, similar to the problem we had before; one when blu-ray movie was starting in ps3 and one just changing channels on the DVR. I can't help but wonder if the clicks and snaps would represent snaps and pops if the fixes haven't been implemented to date, and we just haven't seen a complete resolution yet? I can't imagine not being able to replicate at least the snaps, as it occurs at least once an evening...I will pay more attn to when they occur based on the info /dev/null gave.
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post #1726 of 4310 Old 10-13-2008, 02:41 PM
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I was able to do a direct comparison between updated and non-updated preamp output boards and I can say for certain that the update does not eliminate the clicks and ticks - see my earlier comments for a complete description of the difference. I stuck with my original board because the kind of clicks and ticks it let through were less annoying to me than with the updated board.

I think this is a firmware problem because firmware updates have helped it in the past, and because it is less of a problem when Audyssey EQ is not engaged.

I should say that I had the HDMI update done at a service center and it made a big difference. Before the update I got regular dropouts on 1080p/60 sources, but it has been rock solid ever since.

I think the problems NAD is having replicating the problems relate to the HDMI "crash" noises. Remember that the HDCP protocol communication affects all components in a signal chain - source, receiver, and HDTV. NAD might be able to test the most common sources (PS3 and other common players) with the receivers, but the HDTV adds a whole additional level of complexity. There is no way to check every possible source with every possible HDTV. I think this is the whole problem with HDMI receivers in the first place, and why so many manufacturers are having issues. When the interaction of both the souce and the HDTV affect the performance of the receiver, there is no way to test every combination.

The only conclusion is that HDMI is a joke, and should be dumped in favor of something that does not employ copy protection. How long are manufacturers going to put up with all of these problems, customer complaints, and product returns before they move on to something that works?

The only problem with that line of reasoning is that the average consumer connects everything to the TV and doesn't have an HDMI AVR, much less a home theater system. Those people are doing fine with HDMI. I too have had zero issues with and HDMI source hooked up directly to my HDTV. It's when you stick an AVR in between them that causes all hell starts to break loose, and almost every AVR manufacturer is having the same problems.
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post #1727 of 4310 Old 10-14-2008, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiske View Post

It works for 24/96KHz DVD-Audio , but not for 24/192KHz. I have The Alan Parsons Project "Eye In The Sky" , HDAD2011
When I try to play the 192KHz DVD-Audio the "Digital" sign on the T785 begins to blink. Shifting DVD-Audio to the 96KHz one makes "Digital" stop blinking. So I have concluded that it does not work ;-)

When it blinks, does it keep switching back and forth from Digital to Analog very quickly like it can not lock in? I am just curious, I have an issue when trying to play the multi-channel SACD layer from my PS3 to my T175 where the the display on the T175 just very quickly jumps back and forth from Digital to Analog. I assumed my problem might be on the PS3 but I never really looked into it as I haven't had time to take either in to test.
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post #1728 of 4310 Old 10-14-2008, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdc115 View Post

When it blinks, does it keep switching back and forth from Digital to Analog very quickly like it can not lock in? I am just curious, I have an issue when trying to play the multi-channel SACD layer from my PS3 to my T175 where the the display on the T175 just very quickly jumps back and forth from Digital to Analog. I assumed my problem might be on the PS3 but I never really looked into it as I haven't had time to take either in to test.

It's only the Digital sign that blinks. It's not showing any Analog sign.
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post #1729 of 4310 Old 10-14-2008, 11:58 AM
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Yes, my 785 display also blinks very quickly between analog and digital, also the secondary/temporary line blinks fast between direct and stereo as well - as you say, almost as if it cannot lock in on the signal. All works fine when I change PS3 back to Auto, which of course doesn't show the 785 as accepting the 192kHz. This is all trying to play SACD layer from PS3 via HDMI.
I've sent another email to Bob restating my continuing issues with the click/snap/pop, sent one back in Sept at which time he said he was not hearing much at all about the problem continuing after hardware and 1.16 fixes, hopefully now hearing the same from others will get more attn to it.
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post #1730 of 4310 Old 10-15-2008, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hughej View Post

Yes, my 785 display also blinks very quickly between analog and digital, also the secondary/temporary line blinks fast between direct and stereo as well - as you say, almost as if it cannot lock in on the signal. All works fine when I change PS3 back to Auto, which of course doesn't show the 785 as accepting the 192kHz. This is all trying to play SACD layer from PS3 via HDMI.
I've sent another email to Bob restating my continuing issues with the click/snap/pop, sent one back in Sept at which time he said he was not hearing much at all about the problem continuing after hardware and 1.16 fixes, hopefully now hearing the same from others will get more attn to it.

OK, then maybe the problem is more to do with the NAD. BTW, I only have the problem trying to play the multichannel layer. If play a 2 channel SACD or pick the 2 channel layer, then it plays fine though at 88.2

I was never really concerned or thought about 192KHz, I was more worried about not being able to play multichannel SACDs but I thought the problem might be the PS3.

As far as pops, I get them seldom and are usually very minor. I wasn't planning to do anything about it but now may take the unit in to have it serviced. I don't think I will have any luck with getting it exchanged as I live in Singapore and complete product exchanges is not the norm here.
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post #1731 of 4310 Old 10-18-2008, 05:31 AM
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I just recently upgraded my PS3 to 1.50 firmware and for the first time I can play the multi-layer section of my SACDs. Not sure why this is as I don't seem to see anything in the firmware that is to fix any issues. Maybe I had changed some other setting recently as well but at least now I get 6 channels at 88.2khz instead of the T175 going back and forth from digital/analog over and over.
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post #1732 of 4310 Old 10-18-2008, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAD Paradigm View Post

The T775/T785 do not have audio relays like the T175. Instead they use electronic switching to mute the outputs, so for the most part they don't get the pop issue. My T775 is completely silent when switching inputs. What I do get is ticks, clicks, or snaps when changing functions on a source component. This improved significantly with the latest firmware, but it is still there. As I have found, the preamp output board update intended for the T175 doesn't really help on the T775. The ticks are not loud enough to do any harm, and are more of an annoyance than anything else.

I'm not so sure this is the case exactly. We have had one receiver that popped quite a bit and had to be replaced. But the new one works great. Not sure about any differences with the T175/T775 pre-out boards. Don't know why they'd be different or why the mod would be the same for different boards. In any case, the mod didn't do any good. On another T175 (which I didn't sell, but ended up supporting), swapping the HDMI cables with Accel cables fixed all the major issues.

John
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post #1733 of 4310 Old 10-18-2008, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdc115 View Post

I just recently upgraded my PS3 to 1.50 firmware and for the first time I can play the multi-layer section of my SACDs. Not sure why this is as I don't seem to see anything in the firmware that is to fix any issues. Maybe I had changed some other setting recently as well but at least now I get 6 channels at 88.2khz instead of the T175 going back and forth from digital/analog over and over.

Is this a new update or the one from several months ago?

John
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post #1734 of 4310 Old 10-18-2008, 11:52 AM
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PS3 update 2.5 was just released. I did the update today, and it seem to help with the NAD flickering back and forth between audio modes while the PS3 is loading a game/movie.
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post #1735 of 4310 Old 10-18-2008, 11:58 AM
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That's good. I hate to always bag on Sony, but I swear that they like doing things in ways that force people to buy more Sony gear just to have a system that works. They screw around with their remote codes to make them hard for learning remotes, for instance. I wouldn't be surprised if they tuned their HDMI outs to be on the difficult side for other brands to hone in on. It's either purposeful or simply is a culture of indifference. Sony doesn't play well with others. I don't run into it that much because we try to make sure people buy anything but Sony products, but PS3 has a lot of followers (I'd just buy an Xbox, personally, but.......)

John
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post #1736 of 4310 Old 10-18-2008, 02:26 PM
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Hello everyone,

Thank you all for your advice and information.

I am new to this forum and I am hoping someone will give me light on the cause of the problems I am about to describe with my recently acquired NAD 775. I like the receiver, specially its sound and ease of use, however this recurrent set of problems are about to to drive me nuts. It has happend with the two receivers I've had. The first was returned soon after purchase and now it is happening again. This is why I think it is important to share the setup I have.

Monitor Audio RS 8 speakers connected as Speakers B
Anthony Gallo 5.1 Surround system connected as Speakers B
Anthony Gallo subwoofer
Sony blue ray player connected via HDMI through the receiver
Sony XBR 4 connected to the receiver via HDMI cable
Motorolla HD cable box connected to the receiver via HDMI cable.
Monster Power conditioner. The subwoofer is the only component not connected to the conditioner.

Now, these are the symptoms. Again, the problems I am about to describe happened also with the first unit that was replaced. The second was connected in a similar fashion.

Without making a change in source, the volume was interrupted for a few seconds, there was a very mild popping sound, the remote control lost partially its functions. The stereo sound comming from the B speakers was altered with the stereo central image moving towards the right. This situation was also present when I reconnected the speakers B into the Speakers A output. Strangely, when I measure with a digital sound meter I obtain the same decibel reading from each speaker. The only way of normalizing the situation is by disconnecting all the components, disconnecting power, reconnecting and resetting the receiver. The central stereo image returns intermitently to the center, but the remote problems persist.

I also have to add that in my quest to determine what was the problem, I detected that one of the Anthony Gallo small speakers consistently sounded softer than the others. I tested it through different channels. In my efforts to determine if it was the speaker or the receiver I reconnected the speaker, and when I turned the receiver on it suddenly turned from blue to red, as if there would be a short circuit or something. Very weird.

I am not sure if this is a systematic malfunction in recently produced NAD receivers, if the speaker is causing the receiver to malfunction, if it is the wiring, an electrical power source problem (although voltage is constant according to the power conditioner) or who knows... but all I know is that after such an expense and anticipation in enjoying this new system I am now very frustrated. I am willing to stick with the NAD 775 for the reasons previously mentioned, but hopefully the dealer will be able to solve it. One of their reps will be visiting to evaluate the system since this has been so inconsistent and difficult to replicate.

Anyone, Alimentall, NAD paradigm, with ideas on what may be going wrong?

Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks for your comments.
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post #1737 of 4310 Old 10-18-2008, 07:04 PM
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ae1,

I'm a bit confused by your description, as you describe two sets of speakers hooked up to the B outputs. Which speakers are hooked up where? Activating the Speaker B outputs causes everything to switch to downmix stereo, so only A can be active for multichannel audio.

I would check all of the speakers, especially the one that seems quieter than the others with a multi-meter set to ohms (resistance). If the soft one shows a different reading then you know something might be wrong with it.

I had trouble with off center stereo imaging when doing the auto-setup initially. If your listening position is dead center between the two front speakers, and the auto setup does result in equal distance settings, the image will shift. It's not a volume thing but a time/phase thing. Even with the setup mic centered in the listening position, shifting it left and right as little as half an inch can cause the setup program to get unequal distances to the front speakers.

So I re-did the setup with a single mic position, skipped the rest of the positions, and checked the results. If the front channels were not equal in distance and volume, I redid the setup with small shifts in mic position until they were equal. Then I restarted the setup and did the full 8 positions. Of course, this is only valid if your primary listening position is centered and in the "sweet spot" of the two front speakers.

The remotes eat batteries very quickly. The batteries that come with it will die after only a little use. The remote acts funny when they start to die, but it's not obviously a battery issue. Replace them with high quality alkalines and see what happens.
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post #1738 of 4310 Old 10-19-2008, 02:04 AM
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Thanks for the advice NAD Paradigm. I am learning the hard way the effects of subtle changes in speaker positioning. However, it is the speakers connected to the B Speaker output the ones clearly demonstrating the the off centering of the stereo image. It seems this is also occurrs when I connect these same speakers through the Speaker A output. The NAD does not allow to use the Audessey setup for the B speakers which is a disadvantage.

To clarify my description of the speaker configuration, the 5.1 system (small speakers 100 Hz) was connected to the Speakers A and the Monitor Audio (larger full range speakers) to the Speaker B output. I use the MA speakers for music listening only. The off centering of the stereo image is difficult to assess when the smaller speakers are connected through the speaker A output due to the fact that I have not been able to position them appropiately yet due to all the above mentioned problems, but it does become evident when the MA speakers are connected to either output since they are perfectly positioned and I am sitting in the dead center. I have been able to witnessed how well they sound when there is a nice center stereo image.


Since I'm using 5 speakers and having the rear speaker connection free, we tried connecting the MA speakers through the Rear speaker output using zone 2 and the back Amp and to my surprise using this configuration there was no off centering. This is probably a good idea in order to have the speakers not share the same amp. We also took a look to the small surround speaker and it seems defective since the diaphragm appears rigid compared to the others. We were not able to measure the resistance electronically. I received help by the dealer, but despite their extensive experience with NAD systems they have not been able to understand the problem yet. They promised to contact NAD directly and inquire. I wonder if having the bad speaker help deconfigure the entire system, specially knowing that it happened with both receivers. Or could it be the Sony components affecting the receiver through the HDMI inputs?

They took the remote to inspect it to their lab. I tried resetting the remote several times and this did not help either. Very strange. It seems I'm still far away from enjoying this system fully. I still have faith it will be solved, perhaps with a third receiver and after making sure all the speakers and cable wires are in good shape. Still open for any suggestions or advice.
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post #1739 of 4310 Old 10-19-2008, 03:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

That's good. I hate to always bag on Sony, but I swear that they like doing things in ways that force people to buy more Sony gear just to have a system that works. They screw around with their remote codes to make them hard for learning remotes, for instance. I wouldn't be surprised if they tuned their HDMI outs to be on the difficult side for other brands to hone in on. It's either purposeful or simply is a culture of indifference. Sony doesn't play well with others. I don't run into it that much because we try to make sure people buy anything but Sony products, but PS3 has a lot of followers (I'd just buy an Xbox, personally, but.......)

Sorry, I meant 2.5 and it was just released. As far as xbox/PS3, I don't game so the player is purely used as a Blu-ray/SACD player and a media extender so it serves that purpose. Up until the latest firmware release I was never able to play the multichannel SACD, only 2 channel but now it seems good.
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post #1740 of 4310 Old 10-20-2008, 01:04 PM
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Well, it's 6 months old and I dropped it off at the shop. Lost audio in the middle of the Ryder Cup- disappointing. Anyone else have this problem ? Will advise when it comes back in 3 weeks.... Thank God I kept the HK as backup !

Rick
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