The NAD T775/T785 AVRs w/ HDMI 1.3 Thread! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 4310 Old 10-11-2007, 01:53 PM
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"This may be a premature question given the unit won't accept multichannel LPCM but is there a level adjustment for the LFE channel?"

As John said, that could be handled with different user memory settings.

Not unless there is a menu item for the level the LFE input channel. This is a separate issue from the subwoofer output level as the sub is playing both the LFE channel and redirected bass from the small speakers. Boosting the sub would also boost the bass from all the small speakers and you wouldn't want that in a perfect world. A number of last year's HDMI receivers had the problem and so far NAD isn't exactly inspiring confidence with their HDMI expertise so it couldn't hurt if they were made aware of the issue so it can be addressed as part of their LPCM/HDMI fix.

Dennis H
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post #182 of 4310 Old 10-11-2007, 02:57 PM
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"tone controls are defeatable, and adjustable bass and treble. they are digital, of course. Is that what you were looking for?"

Yep. So there action is like standard analog tone controls, or can you vary the turnover points etc?

"can you tell me how long it took them to reply to your question via the web help center?"

For the three questions I got responses to, it 5-6 days.

"Actually I believe they are analog tone controls (controlled digitally). There is one for dialog also."

Interesting, and potentially very useful. Did you try it?

catapult, good points on the LFE, I'd forgotten about its intricacies.

Noah
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post #183 of 4310 Old 10-12-2007, 11:44 AM
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Does the manual say anything about supporting a 5.1 system with bi-amping the fronts? (assign rear surround for bi-amp)? If so, can one still have another pair of speakers assigned to the B speaker outputs? I assume one can't have both A&B speakers active in this configuration?

Phil Tomaskovic
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post #184 of 4310 Old 10-12-2007, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Yep. So there action is like standard analog tone controls, or can you vary the turnover points etc?

as far as I can tell, you can't vary any turnover/crossover points

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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

catapult, good points on the LFE, I'd forgotten about its intricacies.

I agree. I had forgotten these points as well. my guess is that since there is no mechanism for accepting multichannel LPCM in the first place, there is likely no bass management (LFE). With the processor (TI Aureus) that NAD is using in these units, there is no reason why LFE processing cannot take place...but this will likely be a software upgrade. The LPCM issue is different. With the flakey nature of HDMI in general, I don't know if the hardware already in the unit is capable of accepting it (and can therefore be corrected with a software/firmware upgrade) or if a new piece of modular hardware will be required. I have to assume that the current hardware can accept it--after all, why even include 24bit/192Khz DAC's if you have no intention of ever accepting digital signals that will require them in order to be decoded?

other news from the front: still waiting to hear from NAD...
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post #185 of 4310 Old 10-12-2007, 05:57 PM
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Sorry if this has already been asked - but can these new NADs matrix 7.1 channels from a 5.1 PCM HDMI source?
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post #186 of 4310 Old 10-12-2007, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

Sorry if this has already been asked - but can these new NADs matrix 7.1 channels from a 5.1 PCM HDMI source?

well, I can't speak for the t785 (a couple of people have them on order but I don't think they have been received yet), but the t775 does not accept more than 2 channels via LPCM over HDMI. This has been discussed previously in the thread if you want to know the details. Basically the rumour is that NAD has a fix for this under warranty, but we are still waiting to hear from them about what that might entail.

my guess is that since no consideration was given to more than 2 channels of LPCM, all the goodies that go along with multichannel LPCM over HDMI (e.g. matrix of the L and R surround to the L and R surround Back channels, LFE post-processing, etc.) are not implemented either. As previously discussed, the processing capabilities of these units imply that such features will eventually be available, and again I cannot speak for the t785, but at least in the early versions of the t775 these features are not available.
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post #187 of 4310 Old 10-12-2007, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil Tomaskovic View Post

Does the manual say anything about supporting a 5.1 system with bi-amping the fronts? (assign rear surround for bi-amp)? If so, can one still have another pair of speakers assigned to the B speaker outputs? I assume one can't have both A&B speakers active in this configuration?

the manual doesn't discuss this option specifically, but there is a separate B speaker amp. The bi-amp option is selectable in the OSD (one can set the back surround amps to bi-amp the front channel, operate as the main room back surround, or for a separate zone.) when engaging the B speakers, any output through them is stereo downmixed. If both the A and B speakers are on, both output is stereo downmixed.
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post #188 of 4310 Old 10-12-2007, 09:26 PM
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I am really considering the T775 to replace my Adcom GFR-700. I have an unusual (for most) Magnepan setup using 6 MC1s and a Klipsch RSW-10 sub and really need the power since these are all 4 ohm speakers and the "center" are two MC1 running in series (Magnepan suggested this over a single speaker). Although I have been pleased, I am eager to hear the T775.

Who else has this unit that can shed some light?
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post #189 of 4310 Old 10-12-2007, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jnc1 View Post

well, I can't speak for the t785 (a couple of people have them on order but I don't think they have been received yet), but the t775 does not accept more than 2 channels via LPCM over HDMI. This has been discussed previously in the thread if you want to know the details. Basically the rumour is that NAD has a fix for this under warranty, but we are still waiting to hear from them about what that might entail.

my guess is that since no consideration was given to more than 2 channels of LPCM, all the goodies that go along with multichannel LPCM over HDMI (e.g. matrix of the L and R surround to the L and R surround Back channels, LFE post-processing, etc.) are not implemented either. As previously discussed, the processing capabilities of these units imply that such features will eventually be available, and again I cannot speak for the t785, but at least in the early versions of the t775 these features are not available.

Thanks for the response.
Well I'm STAGGERED to hear that. How can a latest-gen, state-of-the-art, new-release receiver like this NOT accept more than 2 channels of PCM over HDMI?
When you consider that it doesn't decode the new HD formats, this is especially ridiculous!
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post #190 of 4310 Old 10-12-2007, 10:55 PM
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"my guess is that since no consideration was given to more than 2 channels of LPCM,"

"How can a latest-gen, state-of-the-art, new-release receiver like this NOT accept more than 2 channels of PCM over HDMI?"

I also find it incomprehensible. Even if they somehow forgot to include this feature, as opposed to it being designed in but nonfunctional because of a bug, I can't imagine that they're not now scrambling like hell to get it in, or people will stay away in droves.

Noah
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post #191 of 4310 Old 10-12-2007, 11:22 PM
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Well decoders can be added as you stated as well as other things in the future. This is the beauty of this modular design NAD had implemented. As far as the NAD being over priced compared to the Onkyo: I don't think that can be determined until the NAD is released and there could be a controlled listening comparison between the two.

Sorry for asking stupid, but how does this modular design work? How can one add extra modules? Are there any available?

Just found the NAD receivers as in our local Finnish forum one guy had compared Nad T775 against Onkyo 905 - and selected the NAD T775.)

Also as Ney compared T765 to Denon 3808 in favour of NAD I'm getting quite interested in this unit now...

Is there the manual to be downloaded anywhere? - didn't find it on NAD electronics manual download page.

Have I understood correctly that NAD units have upconversion (composite->S-Video->compnent->HDMI) but not upscale (480i->480p->...->1080p)? Can component 720p/1080p be upconverted to HDMI 720p/1080p?

Also does the OSD overlay work on all inputs? Even HDMI? (would be nice to see the sound level on screeen, as my amp is placed behind me)

Criticism is just optimism looking for the light at the end of the tunnel. -
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post #192 of 4310 Old 10-12-2007, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

How can a latest-gen, state-of-the-art, new-release receiver like this NOT accept more than 2 channels of PCM over HDMI? When you consider that it doesn't decode the new HD formats, this is especially ridiculous!

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I can't imagine that they're not now scrambling like hell to get it in, or people will stay away in droves

exactly!

I noticed, while at Barnes & Nobles last night looking at a few new audio magazines (Home Theater, Electronic House, etc.,...), NAD has new full-page ad's featuring this new T-X75 AV reciever line. I hope they get everything right (soon) because they've spent some significant money on advertising so far.
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post #193 of 4310 Old 10-12-2007, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeje2 View Post

one guy had compared Nad T775 against Onkyo 905 and selected the NAD T775.

Also as Ney compared T765 to Denon 3808 in favour of NAD I'm getting quite interested in this unit now...

I could definitely believe this being true in terms of sound-quality. This is the reason I'm still considering the T175, with hopes that the processing issues will be fixed or corrected.
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post #194 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 08:17 AM
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I could definitely believe this being true in terms of sound-quality. This is the reason I'm still considering the T175, with hopes that the processing issues will be fixed or corrected.

Ditto.

I tried out the Onkyo 705 against my NAD T163 in my setup (Rotel power amps, VAF Research DC-X speakers).

I expected some difference, but the NAD absolutely killed the Onkyo.
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post #195 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 09:14 AM
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Hello,
I have a question to one of the lucky T775 owners. I ordered mine yesterday but it'll take about a week until I receive it. As there is no manual an the NAD site for download I hope someone can help me:

Does the T775 have a tape monitor function? For my loudspeakers I have to put a small "blackbox" between pre-out and the amplifier. As the T775 doesn't have inputs for the amplifier I can also put it between tape in/out and switch tape monitor on.
Or is it possible to go from the pre outs to the black box and then back to a free input and assign this to Zone 2? That way I'll gonna loose the surround back channels while the main amplifiers have nothing to do...
Does someone have a better idea? If nothing helps I'll have to use my old T762 as amplifier for the mains.

Thanks,

Magnus
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post #196 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

exactly!

I noticed, while at Barnes & Nobles last night looking at a few new audio magazines (Home Theater, Electronic House, etc.,...), NAD has new full-page ad's featuring this new T-X75 AV reciever line. I hope they get everything right (soon) because they've spent some significant money on advertising so far.

NAD is apparently not alone in this little SNAFU. While looking for information about SACD for the PS3, I found the PS3 SACD FAQ and it has one particular question regarding a problem hearing multichannel SACD only in stereo...here is the response:

"I'm playing a multichannel SA-CD but I only get stereo sound.

If you've made sure you're playing the multichannel mix (not the stereo DSD mix or the CD layer) and you're using the HDMI output (not optical or AV multi out) it could be that your receiver doesn't support multichannel PCM - only stereo. Sony's STR-DG510 and STR-DG710 are examples of such receivers."

(http://www.ps3sacd.com/faq.html#_Toc177216819)

so, obviously other receivers with HDMI chipsets have this same problem. I agree that NAD should've ensured this problem was fixed before shipping the units. The delays on the t175 and t785 imply that they realized that people greatly desire multichannel LPCM and I trying to fix it now. I find it very difficult to believe that NAD forgot about this--they must have made a conscious decision to leave this feature out. In my opinion they probably underestimated the demand for this feature (remember their philosophy about staying away from "me too" technology and features). It looks like they are now realizing this is not a novelty feature but rather something that blu-ray users really want and they are probably scrambling to fix the issue. The truly confusing thing is why they would include all the other features and hardware necessary for dealing with high-bitrate LPCM over HDMI (aureus processor, HDMI 1.3, burr-brown 24bit/192Khz DAC's, etc) and then choose not to include the feature. It implies that their original thinking was that they would make an upgrade down the road and then charge users for it. Of course, this is only speculation, but I cannot come up with another logical reason.

to all the new questions about the NAD's sound quality -- I have a t775 and these issues aside, I am extremely impressed with its sound quality. It is head and shoulders above other receivers that I auditioned (new onkyo's--including integra, yamaha, denon). Its amplifier is top notch and the included audyssey multieq XT is a wonderful feature that works as advertised. Once the LPCM issue is fixed, and assuming that post-processing concerns for LPCM are also included in the fix, I will be thrilled with this receiver.

Regarding the manual -- I cannot find one on the web, but I don't think you would really care to look at it even if you could locate it. In my opinion the manual needs some tweaking as well -- very little technical information in the manual, unless I just missed it, and I don't think I did.
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post #197 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 10:59 AM
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Given that they share the same platform and given that there have been lots of delays over HDMI 1.3, it could be that the T765 and T775 are being put out to keep people more or less happy while the T785 and T175 are completely finished with full HDMI PCM capabilities. It makes sense, though I think I'd be a little more upfront about what they're doing. I think given the option, people would wait, but also seeing the T765 and T775 out there makes the T785 seem that much more imminent and real.

John
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post #198 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungam View Post

Hello,
I have a question to one of the lucky T775 owners. I ordered mine yesterday but it'll take about a week until I receive it. As there is no manual an the NAD site for download I hope someone can help me:

I'm not sure I understand your question, but I have one for you:

When you receive your T775, would you be kind enough to report on this forum if multichannel LPCM works for you? Also, if you would report your receiver's version number I would greatly appreciate it. You can find it printed on the sticker on the box which has the model number, color, serial no, etc. Mine is version AH, and of course multichannel LPCM doesn't work for me. Even if you won't be using this feature, I'd still appreciate hearing about your T775's version number, as it will tell me if NAD has started shipping different version numbers...

Thanks!

John
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post #199 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 11:17 AM
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I find it very difficult to believe that NAD forgot about this--they must have made a conscious decision to leave this feature out

it's hard to believe (to me) that NAD would make a [consious] decision to leave this feature, or capability, out. NAD's emphasis has always been music (or "music first"). Having capability to play multi-channel audio source's (DVD-movies, SACD's, DVD-A's, etc.,..) via-HDMI seems to be universally popular (at least from what I gather on this forum).
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post #200 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 11:53 AM
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Well, it's a whole lot harder for me to believe that it was left out by accident!

John
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post #201 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jnc1 View Post

I'm not sure I understand your question, but I have one for you:

When you receive your T775, would you be kind enough to report on this forum if multichannel LPCM works for you? Also, if you would report your receiver's version number I would greatly appreciate it. You can find it printed on the sticker on the box which has the model number, color, serial no, etc. Mine is version AH, and of course multichannel LPCM doesn't work for me. Even if you won't be using this feature, I'd still appreciate hearing about your T775's version number, as it will tell me if NAD has started shipping different version numbers...

Thanks!

John

Hello John,

I'll test the LPCM thing if you tell me how I can do it. I only have a standard DVD player with HDMI out (Panasonic DVD S97), I don't know if it supports LPCM over HDMI (but I'll check out).
To my question: I have to put a signal enhancer between the Preouts and the amplifier. It boosts the bass of my speakers and cuts some of the higher tones (Canton Ergo RCL). Without this blackbox the speakers don't sound very well. As the T775 has no inputs for power amplifiers I have to find a solution (whether through the tape monitor loop, Zone 2 or additional amplifier).

Magnus
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post #202 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe they thought we wouldn't notice
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post #203 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 11:58 AM
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"How can one add extra modules?"

One can't, only update or replace existing ones.

I'd bet the only reason for the T765/775 appearing first is that they are the least $ and most bang/buck, ergo much higher sales volumes and recovery of investment.

A possible workaround for the HDMI problem for those with multichannel analog outputs available from their HD DVD and BD sources is to send these to the multichannel analog inputs on the T775.

This would only be acceptable if these inputs are digitized so that bass management and Audyssey EQ can be applied.

I just inquired at NAD whether this is the case.

I also asked them yesterday whether the Audyssey installer's kit is available to consumers, though that might be up to Audyssey, who I'll ask as well.

Noah
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post #204 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mungam View Post

Hello John,

I'll test the LPCM thing if you tell me how I can do it. I only have a standard DVD player with HDMI out (Panasonic DVD S97), I don't know if it supports LPCM over HDMI (but I'll check out).
To my question: I have to put a signal enhancer between the Preouts and the amplifier. It boosts the bass of my speakers and cuts some of the higher tones (Canton Ergo RCL). Without this blackbox the speakers don't sound very well. As the T775 has no inputs for power amplifiers I have to find a solution (whether through the tape monitor loop, Zone 2 or additional amplifier).

Magnus

well, I really can't test this for you, but there are inputs/outputs for zone three and four on the back of the unit. Conceivably, you could do what you are talking about with these interfaces, but I think you might need a separate amplifier. I don't see a tape monitor output.

a DVD player will not output multichannel high resolution LPCM (at least not any that I'm familiar with), but thanks anyway. I'd still be interested to know what your version number is...

thanks,
John
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post #205 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Well, it's a whole lot harder for me to believe that it was left out by accident!

yeah, you're right John.

BTW, have you been able to personally verify this problem with any of the unit's you've received?
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post #206 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 02:19 PM
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Mungam,

Maybe the Audyssey EQ will correct your speakers.

It's a pretty good bet on the high freq I think, but it may conclude from the lows that the speakers are small and shouldn't be boosted.

Noah
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post #207 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 02:21 PM
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Well, maybe I'll wait for the new B&K after all. I can't believe they were actually designed this way by NAD. And I can't believe NAD's QC is so bad that it ships out so many defective units. I don't know what to believe, except that I have lost faith in NAD.

My dealer is calling his NAD rep. on Monday for info. I'll post it when I get it.
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post #208 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

yeah, you're right John.

BTW, have you been able to personally verify this problem with any of the unit's you've received?

I'm still waiting for T775s, I'll let you know though. T765s only do video switching for now.

One thing though I like is that in 6 months or so, it's likely that T785 boards will trickle down. Such is the advantage of modular architecture.

John
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post #209 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

Well, maybe I'll wait for the new B&K after all. I can't believe they were actually designed this way by NAD. And I can't believe NAD's QC is so bad that it ships out so many defective units. I don't know what to believe, except that I have lost faith in NAD.

Oh c'mon Robert, isn't that a bit melodramatic? NAD has never promised 7.1 PCM over HDMI to my knowledge. They are probably doing everything they can within the bounds of the technology they can access. Like I said, it's far more likely that the T775 was pushed ahead due to dealer/customer demand and the PCM capabilities weren't quite there yet. Because, otherwise, there's no reason to believe the T785 and T175 wouldn't now be available as well. 8-ch PCM over HDMI makes as much sense as anything for the delay differential.

John
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post #210 of 4310 Old 10-13-2007, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

Well, maybe I'll wait for the new B&K after all. I can't believe they were actually designed this way by NAD. And I can't believe NAD's QC is so bad that it ships out so many defective units. I don't know what to believe, except that I have lost faith in NAD.

My dealer is calling his NAD rep. on Monday for info. I'll post it when I get it.

I really don't think these are "defective." I for one purchased the T775 assuming that it would accept multichannel LPCM, but to be fair I never verified the information. One could say I should not have to verify this, that it was implied by the information available on the website, but for me this is water under the bridge. dan1010 has previously stated that he has already heard from NAD and they have told him that there is a warranty fix for this...Personally I'm still waiting to hear from them, but I received a message stating that "due to vacations" it would be longer than usual before they returned my email.

As for NAD QC, I really think this was the way they were designed. As others have stated, because all of the new AV line share modules, there is certainly reason to believe that the fix will be available in short order.

Also, make no mistake that the receiver is of the highest quality, in my opinion. As I've stated in my initial impressions of the unit, its build quality is second to none and the sound quality is really first rate. multichannel LPCM and post-processing (hereafter referred to as "the LPCM problem" because I'm tired of typing that phrase ) is all that this receiver is missing. My theater sounds better than it ever did with my B&K Reference 30 & separate amps, and it wasn't exactly a slouch back then, either. How is it better? It has smoother freq. response due to audyssey, more power, dynamic range, and intelligibility due to superior NAD amps and power supply, and better soundstaging due to superior DAC's. I'm sure that when I can sit back and listen to multichannel SACD and blu-ray movies in their full, uncompressed quality I will only be further impressed. I'd like to have this feature right now, of course, but if I can be assured that it is coming, I'll happily wait. To put it another way: I'd rather have the NAD T775 as it is and have to wait a few months for LPCM than have purchased the Onkyo 905 (will its host of features but, in my opinion, inferior performance.)

everyone has their own opinion, and I'm not trying to influence yours, but take this for what it is worth...
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