The NAD T775/T785 AVRs w/ HDMI 1.3 Thread! - Page 70 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2071 of 4310 Old 02-02-2009, 08:18 AM
Member
 
fiske's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 134
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTaxMan View Post

Has this limitation actually been verified? When viewing source audio info on the 775, will I NEVER see anything over 96 kHz?

I have the TrondheimSolistene Divertimenti SACD/Blu-ray, and with the 192kHz/24bit Blu-ray disc, my 775 indicates source is 'only' 96KHz. I assume my Panasonic BD35 can output LPCM audio at 192kHz over HDMI but the 775 limits sources to 96k. So the big quesion is, At what point in the chain is the audio being 'downgraded' from 192kHz to 96kHz? Does this happen inside the BD player or inside the 775?

And even though 192kHz sources are rare now, why would NAD put in a hard limit at 96kHz? Seems like a receiver in this price range should support higher. Wouldn't you think so?

I have never been able to send 192KHz over HDMI. I have som HDAD DVD's that are 24bit/192KHz. If I would like to send 192KHz from my 3930 to the T785 I must send the signal over analog and have the 3930 do the decoding.
I have asked this question to the distributor of NAD, but they never managed to get back to me with an answer.
fiske is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2072 of 4310 Old 02-03-2009, 06:34 AM
Senior Member
 
NAD Paradigm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I would assume that the DSP's simply cannot perform all the Audyssey functions and bass management at sampling rates over 96 KHz, hence the restriction. This is common on lots of receivers and pre-pros if you read the fine print. However, most other products will allow D/A conversion of 192 KHz with no bass management, Audyssey or other DSP functions. NAD's XX5 line does not allow this, which is probably a programming issue in the DSP processor.

Personally, the sound improvement I get in my room with Audyssey is superior to the extremely subtle improvement that might occur with 192 KHz over 96 KHz, so I don't really care. I don't have any 192 KHz material either, although if BD-Audio ever becomes a big thing and is encoded at 192 KHz, I might get some.
NAD Paradigm is offline  
post #2073 of 4310 Old 02-03-2009, 06:54 AM
Member
 
fiske's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 134
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
maybe this issue will be solved with some of the new upcoming card replacements? Anyone know about the status of the cards?
fiske is online now  
post #2074 of 4310 Old 02-03-2009, 07:49 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Alimentall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home by the sea
Posts: 14,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Supposedly later this month, but I imagine they're doing a lot of testing and QC.

John
Alimentall is offline  
post #2075 of 4310 Old 02-03-2009, 08:19 AM
Ney
Member
 
Ney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hopefully they are, but some of us would really like some more info than what is already leaked As a 765 owner I would really like to know if I need to invest in 1 or 2 of the module upgrades in order to get sound via hdmi.
Ney is offline  
post #2076 of 4310 Old 02-03-2009, 08:33 AM
Member
 
Alkaar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Syosset, NY
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Seems like the topic has switched to the new modules but I'm contemplating on picking up the non HD T775. From what I've read (read the first 48 pages so far) seems like PS3 and 360 issues through HDMI 1080p might have been resolved. I'll be hooking up my cable box with HDMI 1080i but that should be ok too. The only other issue is the component white washout issue. I have a Wii that will output 480p and my only option is to output component. I was wondering is this still an issue? I know there was one Wii owner who had this concern and did grab the 775 or the 785. Also how are the sound popping issues now? Will it hurt the speakers? I didn't hear it mentioned much but are there audio drop out issues?

I have it down to this or one of the Marantz but seems like this one would be much better in the SQ department.
Alkaar is offline  
post #2077 of 4310 Old 02-03-2009, 09:28 AM
Member
 
gringcorp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkaar View Post

The only other issue is the component white washout issue. I have a Wii that will output 480p and my only option is to output component. I was wondering is this still an issue? I know there was one Wii owner who had this concern and did grab the 775 or the 785.

I do know that my Wii's video doesn't go to my T775 through composite. I've been pondering buying the component cable, but could never work out if that would help at all.
gringcorp is offline  
post #2078 of 4310 Old 02-03-2009, 07:27 PM
Member
 
CatKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have got and set up my T785 for 4 days pairing with Paradigm Monitor 9 V6 and cc290 V6. The T785 came with FW 1.17 and I had finally read through all the 70 pages regarding this baby. I would say this machine is excellent and I have not experience any pop sound that mentioned. I do not need video upscaling in the receiver and my blu-ray player can decode everything.
I have no intention to do the hardware upgrade at this moment and can finally just sit back and enjoy.
Would like to thank the dealer who recommended me the T785 for a very good price instead of the Marantz SR8002 that I wanted to buy before walking into his store.
What the T785 impressed me is it's performance, it's sound quality, it weight and it's solid feel.
CatKing is offline  
post #2079 of 4310 Old 02-04-2009, 03:29 AM
Member
 
CatKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The T785 is fantastic. I used to run-in my new toys continuously at the 1st week. I hooked up the T785 with a Pioneer DV-S9 (this DVD player weight 40 lbs was bought directly from Japan more than 15 years ago and had not used for almost 10 years). Except watching BD with my Samsung BD P2550, I have been ruuning the T785 non-stop with a CD in the DV-S9 for 4 days. I put the T785 in the undershelf that is open at front, back and both side, it is only mild warm when I touch this morning.
The sound was very warm when I was listening at the dealer where the T785 was pair with Monitor Audio speaker. In my set-up with the Paradigm Monitor 9, it was a bit less warm but same musical. It is good though that means the T785 is rather neutral. The HT performance my thought is better than the Monitor Audio.
Anyway, I am somewhat a bit regret having not bought the Paradigm studio series but for sure the T785 will be with me for years.
CatKing is offline  
post #2080 of 4310 Old 02-04-2009, 11:54 AM
Member
 
Alkaar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Syosset, NY
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkaar View Post

Seems like the topic has switched to the new modules but I'm contemplating on picking up the non HD T775. From what I've read (read the first 48 pages so far) seems like PS3 and 360 issues through HDMI 1080p might have been resolved. I'll be hooking up my cable box with HDMI 1080i but that should be ok too. The only other issue is the component white washout issue. I have a Wii that will output 480p and my only option is to output component. I was wondering is this still an issue? I know there was one Wii owner who had this concern and did grab the 775 or the 785. Also how are the sound popping issues now? Will it hurt the speakers? I didn't hear it mentioned much but are there audio drop out issues?

I have it down to this or one of the Marantz but seems like this one would be much better in the SQ department.

Anyone got an answer about the white washout over component? It's the only thing holding me back from picking up a T775!
Alkaar is offline  
post #2081 of 4310 Old 02-04-2009, 02:52 PM
Member
 
MrTaxMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Deigo
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAD Paradigm View Post

I would assume that the DSP's simply cannot perform all the Audyssey functions and bass management at sampling rates over 96 KHz, hence the restriction. This is common on lots of receivers and pre-pros if you read the fine print. However, most other products will allow D/A conversion of 192 KHz with no bass management, Audyssey or other DSP functions. NAD's XX5 line does not allow this, which is probably a programming issue in the DSP processor.

Personally, the sound improvement I get in my room with Audyssey is superior to the extremely subtle improvement that might occur with 192 KHz over 96 KHz, so I don't really care. I don't have any either, although if BD-Audio ever becomes a big thing and is encoded at 192 KHz, I might get some.

According to the specs, it DOES have 192 kHz D/A converters. So it does D/A conversion internally at 192 kHz, but apparently limits sources to 96 kHz. That doesn't seem to pass the smell test.

Secondly, you say you don't have any 192 KHz source material now but you might buy some later. Why would you invest in 192 KHz discs if your receiver doesn't support it?

I assume you have heard 192 KHz source material on other systems and you're impression was there was an "extremely subtle improvement". Or was that impression based solely upon the theoretical difference between 96 KHz and 192 KHz?

I believe the difference is probably imperceptible to me and my middle-aged ears, but I wish my 775 would support 192 KHz source material so I could determine that for myself. That's the reason I invested in the NAD 775; so I could experience music without hardware limitations. But I guess I'll have to 'settle' for 96 KHz. I'll live.
MrTaxMan is offline  
post #2082 of 4310 Old 02-04-2009, 03:02 PM
Member
 
mcmlxviii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkaar View Post

Anyone got an answer about the white washout over component? It's the only thing holding me back from picking up a T775!

I have a Wii hooked up through component and experienced no such issue. My T775 came with firmware v. 1.16. No issues...knock on wood.
mcmlxviii is offline  
post #2083 of 4310 Old 02-04-2009, 05:09 PM
Senior Member
 
NAD Paradigm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTaxMan View Post

According to the specs, it DOES have 192 kHz D/A converters. So it does D/A conversion internally at 192 kHz, but apparently limits sources to 96 kHz. That doesn't seem to pass the smell test.

Secondly, you say you don't have any 192 KHz source material now but you might buy some later. Why would you invest in 192 KHz discs if your receiver doesn't support it?

I assume you have heard 192 KHz source material on other systems and you're impression was there was an "extremely subtle improvement". Or was that impression based solely upon the theoretical difference between 96 KHz and 192 KHz?

I believe the difference is probably imperceptible to me and my middle-aged ears, but I wish my 775 would support 192 KHz source material so I could determine that for myself. That's the reason I invested in the NAD 775; so I could experience music without hardware limitations. But I guess I'll have to 'settle' for 96 KHz. I'll live.

Based on NAD's reaction, it seems that they didn't intend for there to be a limitation on sources to 96 KHz. I would expect this will be corrected in a future firmware update. Many people were told by NAD customer service that their units would pass 192 KHz sources, before we were able to determine that the limitation does exist.

My comments about the "subtle improvements" are based more on my knowledge of digital audio in general than direct experience. I think the difference between 96 KHz and 192 KHz would be imperceptible to many if not most people, but I will allow that some people might be able to hear a difference. It won't be a night and day difference.

As far as buying future BD audio discs at 192 KHz, I didn't say that I would buy them BECAUSE they were encoded at 192 KHz. I meat that if I bought a BD audio disc of music that I wanted, and it happened to be encoded at 192 KHz instead of a lower rate like 96 KHz, then I would end up with 192 KHz source material. If that's all that is available, than that's what I'll end up with. I can easily set my player to downsample to 96 KHz so my T775 can handle it.
NAD Paradigm is offline  
post #2084 of 4310 Old 02-04-2009, 10:18 PM
Member
 
Alkaar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Syosset, NY
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmlxviii View Post

I have a Wii hooked up through component and experienced no such issue. My T775 came with firmware v. 1.16. No issues...knock on wood.

That's good to hear. I know the Wii boots up to a very white menu screen so if that looks normal to you then it must be good. I know it was an issue before but maybe it got resolved which is why everyone stopped talking about it.

Think it's only a matter of time until I pull the trigger on the 775 (785 seems like a lot more power than I actually need for my B&W 600 series I plan on getting).

Need some advice I know there were issues in the past with this receiver but right now my dealer is offering me their A-stock receiver (demo receiver) or I can pick up a B-stock (refurbished) receiver. Supposedly A-stock is better but I'm afraid it's been sitting around for months on end, missing hardware/firmware updates and was wondering if people here think the B-stock might be the better option as it's direct from NAD and they probably would have updated any hardware/firmware issues before sending it out. I hope I can pull the trigger this weekend!
Alkaar is offline  
post #2085 of 4310 Old 02-05-2009, 12:47 PM
Senior Member
 
sstiles4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkaar View Post

That's good to hear. I know the Wii boots up to a very white menu screen so if that looks normal to you then it must be good. I know it was an issue before but maybe it got resolved which is why everyone stopped talking about it.

Think it's only a matter of time until I pull the trigger on the 775 (785 seems like a lot more power than I actually need for my B&W 600 series I plan on getting).

Need some advice I know there were issues in the past with this receiver but right now my dealer is offering me their A-stock receiver (demo receiver) or I can pick up a B-stock (refurbished) receiver. Supposedly A-stock is better but I'm afraid it's been sitting around for months on end, missing hardware/firmware updates and was wondering if people here think the B-stock might be the better option as it's direct from NAD and they probably would have updated any hardware/firmware issues before sending it out. I hope I can pull the trigger this weekend!

I would go with the Demo model and ask the dealer to install the latest update. If they are an authorized dealer this should not be a problem. I personally would stay away from refurbished, but thats just me. I do not think there was any hardware problems with the 775 or 785 (the T175 had hardware issues), just firmware/software upgrades so you should be ok once your dealer does the upgrade. Also research the latest prices, since the HD models are coming out you should get the demo model for a really nice discount. Good luck.
sstiles4 is offline  
post #2086 of 4310 Old 02-05-2009, 02:48 PM
Member
 
Alkaar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Syosset, NY
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Tomaskovic View Post

Are 2 & 3 hardware (board) changes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTaxMan View Post

I was quite surprised to get my 775 back after only 24 hours at the shop. All three mods were done, but interestingly, nothing new was added -- except the firmware update. Items 2 and 3 were modifications to the existing audio board. Adjustments to the muting timing. The service tech said one of the mods was just removing a bunch of capacitors.

And the results? Well, it made a big difference -- for the better. But it's not perfect yet. Instead of getting a pop or crack 40 of 100 times when I changed a channel on my HD cable tuner, now it only happens maybe 5 times out of 100. And they're a bit less intensive. Probably half the volume they were. I believe these are similar results to what others are reporting after getting the same mods.

Has anybody taken a next step to resolve this issue completely? What is the next step?

I read this it leads me to be that there's more than just changing the HDMI board from 2 years ago. Firmware I don't mind so much but the hardware changes are a little bit more difficult so I want to make sure that I have all the hardware updates.
Alkaar is offline  
post #2087 of 4310 Old 02-05-2009, 04:37 PM
Member
 
MrTaxMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Deigo
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAD Paradigm View Post

Based on NAD's reaction, it seems that they didn't intend for there to be a limitation on sources to 96 KHz. I would expect this will be corrected in a future firmware update. Many people were told by NAD customer service that their units would pass 192 KHz sources, before we were able to determine that the limitation does exist.

Looks like you're answers are mostly correct and well-sourced regarding how the DSP's cannot perform all the Audyssey functions and bass management at sampling rates over 96 KHz. And it doesn't look like passing 192 KHz sources will happen in the foreseeable future, it ever. I decided to raise this question to Bob Moran. This was his response to my question about the 775 not fully supporting 192 KHz sources:

Bob Moran: Upon checking further with our software engineers I have confirmed your finding that the T775 does not support sampling rates above 96kHz. While the hardware is capable of supporting higher sampling rates, many of the features we support do not operate at 192kHz. This would make for a very confusing user experience as some features would be available at certain times but not at others depending on the sampling rate. Further, there is almost no source material with 192kHz sampling rates, so there is not a common need.

Checking with our technology providers about the possibility of supporting 192kHz in the future, I got very lukewarm responses. Most believe it is not worth the investment in time because there is "no" perceivable benefit to running the higher sampling rates. Now I know that there is an audiophile argument about the benefit of higher sampling rates allowing the antialiasing filters to have less group delay in the audio band, but many consider this to be an academic argument. The industry is more interested in spending time and DSP resources on more tangible benefits like room correction and expanded surround decoding options.
Seems like a straight-forward and logical answer. I'd say case closed on 192kHz.
MrTaxMan is offline  
post #2088 of 4310 Old 02-06-2009, 03:20 AM
Member
 
mcmlxviii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstiles4 View Post

I would go with the Demo model and ask the dealer to install the latest update. If they are an authorized dealer this should not be a problem. I personally would stay away from refurbished, but thats just me. I do not think there was any hardware problems with the 775 or 785 (the T175 had hardware issues), just firmware/software upgrades so you should be ok once your dealer does the upgrade. Also research the latest prices, since the HD models are coming out you should get the demo model for a really nice discount. Good luck.

The initial T775s had an issue with the HDMI boards - the boards would only provide 2 channels from a PCM signal. That is, regardless of whether you sent a 2 channel or multi-channel signal over LPCM the HDMI board could only handle two channels. The board was modified and later T775s are now able to handle multi-channel over LPCM. In addition, there were major popping noise issues with the early HDMI boards when Audyssey was engaged. This was my experience, as I bought a T775 on Dec 31/08 with firmware 1.05. Firmware updates didn't help the multi-channel LPCM issue and reduced the dB popping level, but didn't eliminate it. So, if you go for the demo may sure the board can handle multi-channel LPCM. Easy enough for the dealer to do before you buy it.

You should be able to get the unit for close to half the MSLR or less. The dealer should give you a price that allows you to add the modular upgrades that will be in the HD version for no more than what the HD version will sell when it's available, i.e. T775 + AM200 + VM100 <= T775HD
mcmlxviii is offline  
post #2089 of 4310 Old 02-07-2009, 09:36 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Alimentall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home by the sea
Posts: 14,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTaxMan View Post

Seems like a straight-forward and logical answer. I'd say case closed on 192kHz.

Meridian has done extensive blind scientific testing and has concluded that anything over 20 bit and 72khz is not only indistinguishable, but a waste of time, energy and processing and of all companies, Meridian has a stake in 'the more power it requires, the better it is'. They use 24/96 capability simply because it is the standard.

Besides, 8x oversampling solves the filtration argument. Most receiver companies will tell you that they can take 96 or 192, but they have to downconvert and bit reduce them in order to allow a cheap DSP unit to process all the data for room correction, bass management, Dolby, etc.

John
Alimentall is offline  
post #2090 of 4310 Old 02-12-2009, 08:49 AM
Newbie
 
ddiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm trying to decide between a T775 and a T175 + T955, especially now with the reduced prices on the amp. I'm only running 5.1, so don't "need" the extra channels in the T775 (although I'll run an extra zone in future, so with separates I'll need an additional amp instead of using the extra two built-in channels)

Looking at the specs, it appears that the T955 has slightly flatter response, slightly less THD, higher S/N... but they don't seem terribly significant to me overall when compared with competitor specs. They're already so good, I'm thinking an incremental improvement may not gain me much, and the all-in-one is *probably* sufficient.

What are the pros and cons to each setup that I may be missing?
ddiller is offline  
post #2091 of 4310 Old 02-13-2009, 04:09 AM
Member
 
mcmlxviii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
FYI I've found 2 reviews of the T7XX series: 1) TechRadar/Home Cinema Choice - http://www.techradar.com/reviews/aud...416379/review; and 2) Hi-Fi News - February 2008 by Richard Stevenson. Both are British publications. The Hi-Fi News articles isn't generally available online, so I'll post some quotes from the article for your reference.

"Moreover, given the choice between getting proper active HDMl implementation, Audyssey EQ or a root canal filling, automatic EQ comes in third every time." - Makes you wonder what the author was smoking. Audyssey makes a huge and beneficial difference in my setup. May not work for everyone, but it's better than a root canal.

"It is not the most neutral of presentations, but the sonic signature is damn close to the reference NAD Masters Series, having real musical energy and passion that many AV amps miss completely. In stereo mode it creates sound pressure levels with an ease that utterly belies i t s modest BOW claim and it's no weakling in multichannel, boasting guts and muscle aplenty."

There is no specific 'direct' mode but the straight stereo input is remarkably clean at normal listening levels. The string arrangements on Damien Rice's 0 CD is beguiling and the NAD offers much of the sweeping scale I heard with some of the two-channel amps that featured in last month's group test. The tonal intonation is on the warmer side of neutral, particularly as the strings swell on tracks like 'Eskimo', but it never fails to craft the illusion of a full orchestra."

"Likewise, Anne-Sophie Mutter's rendition of Beethoven's Violin Sonatas has plenty of scale and dynamic range but the smooth balance means that the upper edge of the violin is just a little too far back in the mix. You can't help feeling that fine details are getting lost in the enthusiasm of it all."

"While the NAD's robust and energetic stance is simple but rather addictive with music, it really clicks with high-octane movie soundtracks. Miami Vice on HD DVD is full of large scale sound effects and is backed with rock and dance music that the T765 simply excels at. It managed to pick out a fair degree of shall details, like the faint background whispering that builds the atmosphere as our heroes walk through the Haitian village in the opening scenes, but it's not so comfortable with intense dramas. Female dialogue is certainly a little richer and chestier than ideal."

"Having heard and been impressed with more upmarket NAD receivers in this series, with their multiple sets of Burr-Brown DACs and more robust power, I can only really say that the T765 is a strip-down special stripped just a little too far."

His concluding summary:

"The T765 is a thoroughbred NAD complete with battleship looks, quirky choice of features and an undeniable musicality that nearly transcends its colourful if slightly muted reproduction. The architecture clearly has potential but the basic HDMl implementation and lack of on-board HD audio decoding make this receiver an also-ran in today's AV receiver market."

Yet the T765 was only given 55% for sound, although I don't really know if the percentage relates to sound quality in relation to other competitors or if the percentage relates to something, such as the sound quality's overall importance for the total package. Seems a little odd that the generally positive remarks about sound quality would result in such a poor rating.
mcmlxviii is offline  
post #2092 of 4310 Old 02-13-2009, 07:17 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Alimentall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home by the sea
Posts: 14,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I wouldn't worry about it. The British love dissecting things and being pretty dramatic about their critiques, as opposed to American reviewers that love everything. One minute NAD is the best value ever, the next minute, it's the whipping boy. Besides, the T765 doesn't have Audyssey EQ, just Audyssey setup. All it does is set the levels, distances and bass management for you.

John
Alimentall is offline  
post #2093 of 4310 Old 02-13-2009, 08:30 AM
Member
 
mcmlxviii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

I wouldn't worry about it. The British love dissecting things and being pretty dramatic about their critiques, as opposed to American reviewers that love everything. One minute NAD is the best value ever, the next minute, it's the whipping boy. Besides, the T765 doesn't have Audyssey EQ, just Audyssey setup. All it does is set the levels, distances and bass management for you.

I just did it for those that might be interested, as some had posted an interest in seeing published reviews.

Before discounting Audyssey the reviewer should have informed himself of its capabilities in the T765 and tried it out. As for Audyssey EQ, it may not work in all cases, it may degrade the sound in some cases, but I suspect that Audyssey (as included in the T775 & T785) improves sound quality more often than not. By preferring a root canal filling over a Audyssey setup in 2008 without giving it a listen, it just shows the reviewer to be out of touch with reality, w.r.t. such systems as we approach the end of this decade, and living in the past.

Myself, I just discounted the review quite a bit when he discounted Audyssey in the manner that he did. It made a huge difference for me and NAD has a better implementation of Audyssey than others. For example, the Onkyo TX-NR905 that I had before switching to the T775 left me with little to no bass after using Audyssey. I ended up having to run the mains (Mirage OM-9s) full range and use double bass to get decent bass. No such issues with the NAD.
mcmlxviii is offline  
post #2094 of 4310 Old 02-13-2009, 02:34 PM
Senior Member
 
NAD Paradigm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Purists don't like EQ's or tone controls, preferring to get the sound "right" with equipment selection, speaker placement, and room treatment. Many distrust any kind of EQ because of the subtle phase shits that may be imparted on the sound. The idea of active digital EQ constantly filtering the entire signal in software may be very disconcerting to a purist.

Also, many EQ's, especially graphic EQ's, are abused by their users who boost the bass and highs and cut out the mids because that's what you are "supposed" to do. The old "rock 'n roll smile" as we call it.

Before hearing the Audyssey implementation on my T775 I was content to use the tone controls minimally on my old HK two channel setup. I selected speakers that sounded "right" to me, and the bass/treble tone controls were almost always bypassed.

I actually had a T765 for a while before the T775 and I spent a lot of time trying to select a center speaker and get it crossed over right so that it did not sound boomy or boxy. When I upgraded to the T775 due to warranty concerns on the T765 I did not expect the Audyssey to make a huge difference. But once I set it up and did the full calibration I realized how much better it made my system sound, especially on the NAD curve. I let my ears be the judge, rather than preconceived notions of what is "right".
NAD Paradigm is offline  
post #2095 of 4310 Old 02-13-2009, 10:08 PM
Member
 
MrTaxMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Deigo
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmlxviii View Post

FYI I've found 2 reviews of the T7XX series: 1) TechRadar/Home Cinema Choice - http://www.techradar.com/reviews/aud...416379/review; and 2) Hi-Fi News - February 2008 by Richard Stevenson.

Thanks for digging these up.

It's odd that these reviews are for the 755 and 765 rather than the higher-end 775 or 785. Seems like if you wanted to see how well a particular line of equipment performed you would review something from the higher end of that line, not the entry level stuff. In general, do reviewers get to choose which model, or do manufactures decide which particular model they want to hand out to be reviewed?

This makes me curious as to success of the various models in this line up. Does anybody know which models NAD sells the most of: 755, 765, 775, or 785? From reading this forum, I would guess the 775 or 785. So why review the 755 or 765 instead one of the more popular ones?

It's also bizarre that the on-line reviewer use a PS3 game machine as the source for HD audio. Now I know the PS3 has a good reputation and is very popular, but what professional reviewer doesn't have access to a dedicated Blu-ray player with multi-channel analog outputs? Especially if you're reviewing a Surround Sound Receiver.
MrTaxMan is offline  
post #2096 of 4310 Old 02-14-2009, 02:15 AM
Newbie
 
ssangha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am new to this forum. I have a NAD 773 running PSB speakers (5.1). Recently watching tv I experienced a large pop (more like a gun going off). The 773 shut down but all other components remained on. Not knowing what had happened, I reset my line conditioner and proceeded to power up. Everything seemed fine for about 10mins and then the loud band occurred again. Can anyone shed any light on what may be wrong. I did notice that one of my speaker plugs was virtually hanging from the post. Could this cause a short and cause a loud bang?

Secondly, I am thinking of getting into the T785HD to take advantage of some of the HD functionality that exists today. I thought I would compare some units on the market today against the 785. Any opinions on the Denon 4308, Onkyo NR906, or the Pioneer Elite SC-07?

Thanks.
ssangha is offline  
post #2097 of 4310 Old 02-18-2009, 06:34 AM
nek
Senior Member
 
nek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Birmingham United Kingdom
Posts: 233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I had a listen to the Onkyo 905 and the Denon 4308 - the Nad T785 was superior to them both - I was tempted to go for the denon, due to its wireless network capability but the nad simply destroyed it - especially 2 channel performance - The T785HD, I feel would almost be the complete package save for the wireless/Ethernet omissions - but with its module upgrade ability - whats round the corner lol?

Ken
nek is offline  
post #2098 of 4310 Old 02-19-2009, 03:19 PM
Newbie
 
Russ_L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAD Paradigm View Post

I would assume that the DSP's simply cannot perform all the Audyssey functions and bass management at sampling rates over 96 KHz, hence the restriction. This is common on lots of receivers and pre-pros if you read the fine print. However, most other products will allow D/A conversion of 192 KHz with no bass management, Audyssey or other DSP functions. NAD's XX5 line does not allow this, which is probably a programming issue in the DSP processor.

Personally, the sound improvement I get in my room with Audyssey is superior to the extremely subtle improvement that might occur with 192 KHz over 96 KHz, so I don't really care. I don't have any 192 KHz material either, although if BD-Audio ever becomes a big thing and is encoded at 192 KHz, I might get some.

The NAD literature for the AM 200 module specifies "two Dual Core DSPs". You would think that an additional DSP would allow simultaneous operation at 192kHz with full Audyssey implementation.

Russ
Russ_L is offline  
post #2099 of 4310 Old 02-21-2009, 05:00 AM
Member
 
CatKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAD Paradigm View Post

Purists don't like EQ's or tone controls, preferring to get the sound "right" with equipment selection, speaker placement, and room treatment. Many distrust any kind of EQ because of the subtle phase shits that may be imparted on the sound. The idea of active digital EQ constantly filtering the entire signal in software may be very disconcerting to a purist.

Also, many EQ's, especially graphic EQ's, are abused by their users who boost the bass and highs and cut out the mids because that's what you are "supposed" to do. The old "rock 'n roll smile" as we call it.

Before hearing the Audyssey implementation on my T775 I was content to use the tone controls minimally on my old HK two channel setup. I selected speakers that sounded "right" to me, and the bass/treble tone controls were almost always bypassed.

I actually had a T765 for a while before the T775 and I spent a lot of time trying to select a center speaker and get it crossed over right so that it did not sound boomy or boxy. When I upgraded to the T775 due to warranty concerns on the T765 I did not expect the Audyssey to make a huge difference. But once I set it up and did the full calibration I realized how much better it made my system sound, especially on the NAD curve. I let my ears be the judge, rather than preconceived notions of what is "right".

Just interesting to know how many of you would disable the audessey or NAD EQ in your T775/T785. I know it is related to the room environment, I found I disable them gives better result as it lost some high tone when either EQ is on or I can do some setting at tone setting to compensate it.

Thanks
CatKing is offline  
post #2100 of 4310 Old 02-21-2009, 11:32 AM
Senior Member
 
Drew_N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Chester County, PA
Posts: 308
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatKing View Post

Just interesting to know how many of you would disable the audessey or NAD EQ in your T775/T785. I know it is related to the room environment, I found I disable them gives better result as it lost some high tone when either EQ is on or I can do some setting at tone setting to compensate it.

Thanks

I'm not using the Audessey in my T785. It stripped the punch from music and left it sounding very thin. I'm guessing it has to do with my room size and configuration based on the number of people with postive results.
Drew_N is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off