The NAD T775/T785 AVRs w/ HDMI 1.3 Thread! - Page 73 - AVS Forum
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post #2161 of 4310 Old 03-18-2009, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Tomaskovic View Post

Maybe this is a dumb question, how much power does a T785 draw? I'm asking because I'm looking at getting a APC J10 or J15 power conditioner (I know there are mixed feelings on these) with battery backup. So I'm wondering if I can go with the J10 or need the larger J15? Main other item is my Sony SXRD 50XBR1 which its manual said it drew 240w.

I assume it doesn't draw 7x120w in surround mode, but then again I assume it can't put out more power than it takes in. I hated physics! I don't see any nunbers on this online or in the manual.

Also what about standby?

Hi Phil,

I had contacted NAD about the maximum current draw of the T-785 back when I purchased it and they stated 12A (which, at the normal 115V residential line voltage would be 1380W). In standby mode, it consumes less than 1W. Now, in actual use, you'll probably never use more than a few amps. On peaks (that were reaching 109db at the listening position) I was only hitting 5A (this depends a lot on the size of the room and speaker efficiency of course). As far as what power conditioner you want to use with battery backup, it does not matter which one. The choices you have will have some 'high' current outputs that are not on the battery backup, which you should connect your T-785 to. Connecting to the battery backup terminals will limit (compress) the the power available to your receiver (or any amp). IMO only use the battery backup terminals for your sources that need memory (DVR, TIVO, etc.) and your display (which also keeps a memory and some of them need a 'cool' down after being turned off, such as rear/front projectors). The 'high' current outputs usually have less filtering, also to aid in not limiting the current availability from your socket.

Hope this helps.
Ray

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post #2162 of 4310 Old 03-18-2009, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post

Hi Phil,

I had contacted NAD about the maximum current draw of the T-785 back when I purchased it and they stated 12A (which, at the normal 115V residential line voltage would be 1380W). In standby mode, it consumes less than 1W. Now, in actual use, you'll probably never use more than a few amps. On peaks (that were reaching 109db at the listening position) I was only hitting 5A (this depends a lot on the size of the room and speaker efficiency of course). As far as what power conditioner you want to use with battery backup, it does not matter which one. The choices you have will have some 'high' current outputs that are not on the battery backup, which you should connect your T-785 to. Connecting to the battery backup terminals will limit (compress) the the power available to your receiver (or any amp). IMO only use the battery backup terminals for your sources that need memory (DVR, TIVO, etc.) and your display (which also keeps a memory and some of them need a 'cool' down after being turned off, such as rear/front projectors). The 'high' current outputs usually have less filtering, also to aid in not limiting the current availability from your socket.

Hope this helps.
Ray

Thanks Ray. I think all the outlets on these AVS units do battery backup (according to their manual) vs some of the "regular" computer UPS units which have some outlets without backup. Another forum recommended using the analog filter outlets (one of which is labeled for receivers) vs the high current outlets (one labeled for sub and one for amp).

Phil Tomaskovic
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post #2163 of 4310 Old 03-18-2009, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Tomaskovic View Post

Thanks Ray. I think all the outlets on these AVS units do battery backup (according to their manual) vs some of the "regular" computer UPS units which have some outlets without backup. Another forum recommended using the analog filter outlets (one of which is labeled for receivers) vs the high current outlets (one labeled for sub and one for amp).

Phil,
I did not know that about their HT products (I do have some APS units for my computers). For my HT equipment, I use the ones from Belkin, which do have separate non-back-up outlets, just made the assumption that APS did the same. Let us know how it works out for you.

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post #2164 of 4310 Old 03-18-2009, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post

Phil,
I did not know that about their HT products (I do have some APS units for my computers). For my HT equipment, I use the ones from Belkin, which do have separate non-back-up outlets, just made the assumption that APS did the same. Let us know how it works out for you.

Will do, bought it as an open box from PC Connection for a good price. Hope it is in good condition.

Phil Tomaskovic
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post #2165 of 4310 Old 03-19-2009, 06:01 AM
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Hi,
Would like to asked those T785 owners "how many of you have upgraded to FW 1.18 and is there any differentce. Mine is 1.17.

Up till now, I still cannot probably install the driver of the USB to serial adapter. My pc always gives a message that there may be error in the installing
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post #2166 of 4310 Old 03-19-2009, 06:28 AM
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I've updated to 1.18, I believe I was going from 1.16. For me there wasn't much improvement. I still had the final popping noise I was getting when my PS3 was changing from 1080/60 to 1080/24, and the audio dropouts are still not yet resolved either (I'd say improved some, but not resolved). Ultimately that final popping was solved by an upgrade in my HDMI cables. I initially thought this was a ridiculous idea, but it worked for me. I've since compared the outrageously priced QED cables to the HDMI-X from Audioquest and while the Audioquest didn't pop as much as my old Blue Jeans HDMI's, they did still pop at the video transitions. Seems to have something to do with the 785 reinitializing the connection between source and TV when there is a change in audio/video resolution, but then I have no expertise and this is just layman's observation.
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post #2167 of 4310 Old 03-19-2009, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by macmanjpc View Post

Sorry if this is an amateur question but I need help figuring out codecs and settings. I'm using a PS3 for Blu-Ray output to my T-775. Can someone please guide me through the optimum settings on both machines to get the highest quality audio/video through hdmi. This is all outputting from the AVR to my Sharp Aquos 1080p LCD.

Since the 775 doesn't decode the HD codecs, specifially I'd like to know what I need to set the output of the PS3 to to decode the highest quality and send through PCM or Bitstream to the 775. And then what settings to use on the 775. How does an Uncompressed audio blu-ray track get handled in this situation?

I'm so confused

Thanks,
Jason

Well assuming your aquos is on default to receive limited colorspace of 16-235/ycbr 4:4:4....you'll probably want to set the color space to limited with btb/wtw on. Also you'll want to set the hdmi output for audio to pcm. This will ensure proper decoding of DTS MA HD and TrueHD to your NAD. An uncompressed track of lpcm will simply just be passed as is. Also make sure the volume on your ps3 setting (during playback you can access through the menu system hitting triangle ) is on normal (middle of the spectrum) to ensure the ps3 doesn't tweek the lpcm volume as you'll want your receiver to do that. And make sure Dynamic compression is set to off. Good luck.
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post #2168 of 4310 Old 03-19-2009, 01:12 PM
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I'm a new NAD T775 owner (have lots of older NAD gear, 3020, 1900/2200PE,T761) and have a couple issues I can't figure out with the T775. I've searched through the forums and haven't seen anyone else with the problem.

I have 2 zones in use on my 775, zone 1 (5.1 speaker system) and zone 2 going to my 2200PE Amp which drives the rest of my house. I have 3 sources hooked up (DVD, Cable box and squeezebox) all connected to digital inputs. DVD player is hdmi, cable box is optical and squeezebox is connected via digital coax input on the 775. I can listen to each zone independently, but I can't run both zones simultaneously. If I select the same source on zone 1&2, that works, or if I select tuner on zone 2 while zone 1 has a digital source selected that works as well. If I select, say the DVD on zone 1, and the cable box on zone 2, there is no sound output on zone 2.

Is the T775 only able to route one digital source at a time to all zones? Do I have to run additional analog inputs in order for multizone functionality to work? There is no mention of this in the owners manual.

Also, my switched outlet on the back of the 775 won't turn on my NAD 2200PE amp. I haven't tried any other devices on this outlet as I have only had it installed for a couple of days.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2169 of 4310 Old 03-19-2009, 02:26 PM
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Correct - the NAD XX5 units only have one DSP so you can only ask it to decode one digital source at a time, I ran into this same issue. Good news is that one of the new boards, AM 200 I believe, will have 2 DSP's which I think should allow us to listen to digital input from 2 sources simultaneously. Not sure on the switched outlet question as I use the 12V trigger to turn on my Zone 2 amp. If your amp has this feature you might give that a shot as it's worked flawlessly for me...
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post #2170 of 4310 Old 03-19-2009, 02:29 PM
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Thanks for the tips. I'm going to look into those settings as soon as I get my 775 back from NAD. I bought the AVR on Saturday and immediately noticed the loud pop when audio formats changed on my PS3. I found on this forum that it was a common issue and decided to look into updated firmware. I was at 1.16.

So Monday morning I called NAD and spoke to a guy in their technical department, explained my issue and asked if I could simple update the firmware myself. He said yes but that would not solve the problem. Be said they needed to update the software and change hardware modules as well so they would need it back. Luckily I live not far from NAD here in Ontario and was able to drop it off Wednesday morning. They said they would prioritize my case as I was a brand new owner.

I called this afternoon for a status update and was informed that it had been on the test bench and that they hoped to have it finished around next Tuesday. I was surprised saying that I was really thinking that it would have been just a card module update but not so. I was told there was a LOT of stuff to remove in order to update the necessary hardware. This is the first I've heard of a hardware/software update to fix the popping issue.

So I will wait patiently for my brand new AVR to get out of the birthing unit and I'll update everyone with the results and whatever other info I can when it returns.

Cheers,
Jason

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post #2171 of 4310 Old 03-19-2009, 03:21 PM
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Quite interesting, when I first purchase my t785, I knew 1.16 was the newest firmware revision and it upgraded by Henry's Audio (Apparently they're renowned for working on these amps) and when I got the receiver back, all it said was update system 1.16 to address drop outs/popping issues. I do occassionally get those booms with the ps3 and other devices like htpc and oppo 983 but I already know when they're going to happen possibly (like others mention, in between cutting audio in and out, switching resolution, loading discs etc) so I just turn the volume to mute meanwhile. I don't think from the consensus on this thread that there is a definitive fix in this as it's hard for the receiver to determine when an audio signal ends or begins. I'd be tempted to do 1.18 but I don't see any compelling reasons to do so from the feedback thus far.
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post #2172 of 4310 Old 03-20-2009, 09:50 AM
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For my popping issues I had bought mine as a demo and was at 1.06. Issues left and right. Upgraded the firmware myself to 1.18 and virtually all issues are gone. Only issue which really is a minor one is if I turn on/off my TV before the receiver I'll get a pop. Not a loud one but a noticable pop. Usually isn't an issue since I have my macros set to turn the TV on first.

Also very rarely on occasion when I access the OSD the screen will go purple a second then I see the OSD but also a minor issue.

Sound is incredible. Those bass sounds are really accurate. Glad I didn't settle on the Denon as it'd just muddle up the sound.
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post #2173 of 4310 Old 03-20-2009, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkaar View Post

For my popping issues I had bought mine as a demo and was at 1.06. Issues left and right. Upgraded the firmware myself to 1.18 and virtually all issues are gone.

So are you saying your unit has not had any hardware mods? I'm suprised to hear firmware updates alone fixed your issues. Five months ago I had the below three updates done to my 775 at a service center. Have not done anything else since. I need to get 1.18 to see if it helps any more with the popping since I still experience minor issues, as sensui just described.

1) T775-S2008-01_ V1.16 Software Update
2) T775-H2008-02_Pop Noise Update
3) T775-H2008-01_HDMI Update
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post #2174 of 4310 Old 03-21-2009, 07:17 AM
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Glad I didn't settle on the Denon as it'd just muddle up the sound.

Any chance you could elaborate a bit on that thought? For ~15 years now my two "default" brands have been Denon and NAD and I never feel like I'm "settling" when I buy either of them (I'm in the market for a new AVR).

I normally lean towards NAD, but it seems as a company they are having trouble transitioning their products from the analog to the digital domain. Whether they are having more or less trouble than competitive brands is I guess debatable (I also follow the Denon threads).
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post #2175 of 4310 Old 03-22-2009, 05:22 PM
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Okay... help me out guys. I'm starting to get a little buyer's remorse while my new receiver sits in the shop.

Did I make the right choice with the NAD T-775? I'm hearing a lot of votes on another thread suggesting I should have gone with a mid-range feature-rich receiver like the Onkyo or Yamaha and left the Power delivery to a 5-Channel Emotiva Amp. Effectively costing the same as the NAD but with more power, more features and better sound.

Please tell me I'm not crazy

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post #2176 of 4310 Old 03-22-2009, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmanjpc View Post

Okay... help me out guys. I'm starting to get a little buyer's remorse while my new receiver sits in the shop.

Did I make the right choice with the NAD T-775? I'm hearing a lot of votes on another thread suggesting I should have gone with a mid-range feature-rich receiver like the Onkyo or Yamaha and left the Power delivery to a 5-Channel Emotiva Amp. Effectively costing the same as the NAD but with more power, more features and better sound.

Please tell me I'm not crazy

You are NOT crazy. I have had my T775 since last May 2008 and I have been very happy with the sound. I have had only minor popping issues that are not even that loud (more of a "tic" than a "pop"), but I haven't upgraded to the 1.18 firmware yet. I am running HDMI to my Sharp LCD TV and HDMI from my OPPO 981HD DVD player. My satellite box is not HD yet, so I am running s-video and digital audio for that to the T775. The sound is amazing and I expect to get 20+ years out of this receiver as I did my original NAD amp and tuner.

I'm sorry yours needed to be repaired, but when you get it back, I'm sure you will enjoy it.
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post #2177 of 4310 Old 03-22-2009, 05:43 PM
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Part of me is really wishing I had held out for the 775HD, even though I know I don't need the on-board decoding of HD Codecs as this is done by the PS3. It's irrational but I can't stop it.

Has anybody actually found a Pro review of the 775 anywhere? I've googled the crap out of it and have found zilch other than this thread.

Cheers,
Jason.

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post #2178 of 4310 Old 03-23-2009, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmanjpc View Post

Has anybody actually found a Pro review of the 775 anywhere? I've googled the crap out of it and have found zilch other than this thread.

You are right, that there are not any magazine or web site reviews of T7x5 series, but that seems to be more a function of reviewers review what they are sent by the manufacturers. It seems that NAD doesn't do that like some of the other manufacturers.

Last week, though, NAD just posted that the T785 received the "Best A/V Receiver" award in Sound and Vision Install magazine's 2008 awards. The T775 and T785 are virtually the same except for power, I think.
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post #2179 of 4310 Old 03-23-2009, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmanjpc View Post

Okay... help me out guys. I'm starting to get a little buyer's remorse while my new receiver sits in the shop.

Did I make the right choice with the NAD T-775? I'm hearing a lot of votes on another thread suggesting I should have gone with a mid-range feature-rich receiver like the Onkyo or Yamaha and left the Power delivery to a 5-Channel Emotiva Amp. Effectively costing the same as the NAD but with more power, more features and better sound.

Please tell me I'm not crazy

Problem with that line of thought is the assumption that the pre-amp section is of good enough quality. I've read that the op-amps in the pre-amp section can of sufficiently poor quality that they limit the sound quality coming from an external power amp. I recall reading a review where the benefits of an external power amp weren't really fully realized because of the poorer quality parts used in the pre-amp out section of the receiver. Power was there, but not sound quality. Unfortunately I don't recall the actual review so I'm unable to provide the internet reference.

In addition, the D/A & A/D converters may be of lower quality than the those in the NAD and other brands' receivers in a comparable range. Also consider the quality of parts may be further reduced in a mid-grade receiver if the manufacturer has to pay licensing fees for extra features.
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post #2180 of 4310 Old 03-24-2009, 05:32 PM
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Well, it's on it's way back. Was supposed to be shipped overnight to me for Wednesday. Tech report says that the machine was pretty much completely disassembled, resistors were removed somewhere and capacitors were added somewhere else (or maybe the other way around) and new software completely updated. Fully cleaned, reassembled and completely tested am given a clean bill of health.

I look forward to hooking it up... Again I'll give you full run down of the results and other info I find out about any hardware updates and the version of firmware. I'm excited to see how she sounds now that I think I've figured out all the settings and audyssey set ups. I'm positive I haven't heard it's full potential yet. I've learned a lot on the board in the last week it's been away. Thanks!

Cheers,
Jason

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post #2181 of 4310 Old 03-24-2009, 07:08 PM
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I recall reading a review where the benefits of an external power amp weren't really fully realized because of the poorer quality parts used in the pre-amp out section of the receiver. Power was there, but not sound quality. Unfortunately I don't recall the actual review so I'm unable to provide the internet reference

Are you refering to this article?
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post #2182 of 4310 Old 03-25-2009, 03:01 AM
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Are you refering to this article?

Yes, this was the article I was thinking of.
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post #2183 of 4310 Old 03-25-2009, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by macmanjpc View Post


Since the 775 doesn't decode the HD codecs
Thanks,
Jason

Have you considered upgrading the MDC audio module to AM200? If you take it back to your dealer, they would install this module for somewhere in the neigborhood of $500 (don't quote me) and then you would have the 775 decode. Its an option albiet not cheap, but it would give you higher quality than LPCM, wouldn't it?
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post #2184 of 4310 Old 03-25-2009, 07:14 AM
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Have you considered upgrading the MDC audio module to AM200? If you take it back to your dealer, they would install this module for somewhere in the neigborhood of $500 (don't quote me) and then you would have the 775 decode. Its an option albiet not cheap, but it would give you higher quality than LPCM, wouldn't it?

Actually, from how it's been explained to me, LPCM from a 5.1 or 7.1 Uncompressed BD track would be higher quality. As for the Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD tracks, they are better than their predecessors DD and DTS but are still lossy compressed versions of the uncompressed track. And, being decoded at the player and sent via LPCM to the receiver should be the same quality as if the receiver itself did the decode.

Someone please correct me if this is incorrect? And, if I am correct, what would be the benefit of upgrading the the AM200 card?

Thanks,
Jason

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post #2185 of 4310 Old 03-25-2009, 09:10 AM
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Jason,

You are correct that Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD tracks still have some compression (and usually some dialog normalization), but it is so close to the original uncompressed LPCM that most, if not all, will not be able to tell the difference. Now, depending on your sources, one would have to decide whether adding the new cards are worth it. I'm using the Panasonic DMP-35k which does all the decoding on-board and do not have any other sources that output the high-res tracts so really do not need the upgrade. For others, if you have multiple sources that only out a bitstream version of the tracts, then the decoding needs to be done in the receiver, but (dmichael), it will not give you a higher quality signal than LPCM (again, one would most likely never be able to tell the difference).

The advantage of adding the new cards would be Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ, which would be great if listening to levels under reference (which I assume most do unless you have dedicated room that's closed off to the rest of the house). My opinion of course.

Ray

 

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post #2186 of 4310 Old 03-25-2009, 10:31 AM
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Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated!

On another note. The T-775 just arrived back to me at my work. Looking at the Service Report this is what was done. Word for word...

Remove C6505, C6506, C6512, C6513, C6605, C6606, C6612, C6613, C6705, C6706, C6712, C6713, C6805, C6806, C6812, C6813, Cap from Pre-Out Board. NAD Parts used: 2 Qty. 27 Ohms, 1/10W 1% SM Resistor. Unit upgrade to V1.18 latest software.

Most of this is Greek to me but if someone can decipher that description more power to you!

Looking forward to the test tonight.

Cheers,
Jason

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post #2187 of 4310 Old 03-25-2009, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmanjpc View Post

Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated!

On another note. The T-775 just arrived back to me at my work. Looking at the Service Report this is what was done. Word for word...

Remove C6505, C6506, C6512, C6513, C6605, C6606, C6612, C6613, C6705, C6706, C6712, C6713, C6805, C6806, C6812, C6813, Cap from Pre-Out Board. NAD Parts used: 2 Qty. 27 Ohms, 1/10W 1% SM Resistor. Unit upgrade to V1.18 latest software.

Most of this is Greek to me but if someone can decipher that description more power to you!

Looking forward to the test tonight.

Cheers,
Jason

Basically they removed 18 small capacitors from the Pre-out board and added 2 resistors. They figured that these capacitors were not really needed (they usually help stabilize the output voltage, but sometime there is over kill). The discharging/charging of the capacitors may have cause some of the popping. Not sure what the additional resistors were added for. All in all, really a simple hardware mod which does not affect any of the main circuits. I did the V1.18 FW update and it pretty much got rid of the 'small' popping (did not have the large ones that others had) and once in a while I get a very slight pop when switching from my BR player (while it's still running) to another source and back, but it's so minor that it does not bother me. All other sources do not pop (in my system that is, I know it can be source dependent as every manufacture out there is using a different 'standard' ).

Hope yours turned out well, it's a great sounding unit!

Ray

Ray

 

"Listen with an open heart and mind."

 

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post #2188 of 4310 Old 03-25-2009, 02:35 PM
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Jason,

You are correct that Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD tracks still have some compression (and usually some dialog normalization), but it is so close to the original uncompressed LPCM that most, if not all, will not be able to tell the difference.

Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD are lossless compression formats, and as such, there should be no difference from the uncompressed signal. Think ZIP or FLAC formats that are used to compress files with no lost data. Regular Dolby Digital on the other hand is comparable to JPEG or MP3 files - lossy compression that throws away data in order to gain higher compression levels.

If someone maintains that DolbyHD & DTS-HD lossless compression formats are somewhat lossly or different from the uncompressed signal then I would appreciate his/her sources because everything I've heard and read about these formats would contradict this. I'm not implying or trying to imply that you said this or attribute such statements to you. I just want to clarify the truth about these formats. Knowledge is power in making an informed decision.
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post #2189 of 4310 Old 03-25-2009, 04:58 PM
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On another note. The T-775 just arrived back to me at my work. Looking at the Service Report this is what was done. Word for word...

Remove C6505, C6506, C6512, C6513, C6605, C6606, C6612, C6613, C6705, C6706, C6712, C6713, C6805, C6806, C6812, C6813, Cap from Pre-Out Board. NAD Parts used: 2 Qty. 27 Ohms, 1/10W 1% SM Resistor. Unit upgrade to V1.18 latest software.

Most of this is Greek to me but if someone can decipher that description more power to you!

These were adjustments to the muting timing. I had exact same modification done to my 775 and it helped quite a bit. Although now I think they might have been TOO aggressive with the timing. When I first put in a DVD-Audio or SACD in my Oppo 983 and it starts to play, I sometimes miss the first 1/2 second of sound. It's like the 775 is on internal mute when it senses a new source and it doesn't come off mute until it gets a strong signal from the CD player. Before the mod it was coming off internal mute too soon and resulted in pops. Now it comes off internal mute a little too late. Doesn't happen each time, but when it does I just have to start the track over again if I want that first 1/2 second. Most times it's not that critical but with something like Beethoven's 5th, it's very critical.

Anybody else have this muting issue after the hardware mods? I'm still on 1.16. Or could it be my Oppo 983 that's doing this?
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post #2190 of 4310 Old 03-25-2009, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mcmlxviii View Post

Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD are lossless compression formats, and as such, there should be no difference from the uncompressed signal. Think ZIP or FLAC formats that are used to compress files with no lost data. Regular Dolby Digital on the other hand is comparable to JPEG or MP3 files - lossy compression that throws away data in order to gain higher compression levels.

If someone maintains that DolbyHD & DTS-HD lossless compression formats are somewhat lossly or different from the uncompressed signal then I would appreciate his/her sources because everything I've heard and read about these formats would contradict this. I'm not implying or trying to imply that you said this or attribute such statements to you. I just want to clarify the truth about these formats. Knowledge is power in making an informed decision.

Basically, yes. But, some articles:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/1233
http://investor.dolby.com/ReleaseDet...leaseID=262365
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles...r_hd-print.php

I do agree, for the most part, there there is no difference. I did not say that the bitstream formats were lossy, but that sometimes an extra step is added, i.e. dialog normalization in the DolbyHD decoding (which you would not have in the uncompressed LPCM transfer. Will it sound different, maybe a bit. Will it sound worse, IMO, no.

This article:
http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby...compressed_PCM
makes a point that the difference between these new formats and the older lossy formats, using a high-resolution system, is very small/subtle. I can hear a difference, on some material, but not on others (some Bluray discs do not have the newer formats either).

Not trying to argue either, also always wanting to learn more and do correct me if I'm wrong.

Ray

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