The NAD T775/T785 AVRs w/ HDMI 1.3 Thread! - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 4312 Old 10-13-2007, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jnc1 View Post

My theater sounds better than it ever did...

From this I assume you've tried playing a standard definition DVD-movie using conventional digital audio (ie. digital-optical or digital-coax) connection? And all works great?

Also have you played an SACD (or DVD-A) using conventional analog multi-channel inputs? If so how is sound-quality?

Thanks.......
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post #212 of 4312 Old 10-13-2007, 10:36 PM
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I really don't think these are "defective."

Not defective, just 2 years behind state of the art. That's okay, Anthem owners and others are feeling the pain too. Seriously though, I wouldn't expect any quick fixes for the HDMI ummm, errrr... features. It's pretty clear the little guys like NAD are way behind the curve on this stuff so it's the same old quandry, SQ or features, choose one.

Dennis H
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post #213 of 4312 Old 10-13-2007, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mungam View Post

I'll test the LPCM thing if you tell me how I can do it. I only have a standard DVD player with HDMI out (Panasonic DVD S97), I don't know if it supports LPCM over HDMI (but I'll check out).

Your S97 can play back DVD-Audio discs, so you can at least test whether the hardware in the NAD is capable of accepting multi-channel PCM (albeit not from a HD DVD or Blu-ray source). Hopefully you have some multi-channel DVD-A titles to use for testing purposes.

If your NAD is connected to the display via HDMI and you only get 2 channels of PCM being transmitted between your player and receiver, then try turning the display off or disconnecting it from the receiver. It's possible that the player is handshaking with a 2-channel device (the display) in the signal chain, and that's what is keeping it from outputting more than 2 channels. With the player only handshaking with the receiver, it may output multi-channel PCM.

Worth a try; should only take you a couple of minutes.

Sanjay

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post #214 of 4312 Old 10-14-2007, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

From this I assume you've tried playing a standard definition DVD-movie using conventional digital audio (ie. digital-optical or digital-coax) connection? And all works great?

Also have you played an SACD (or DVD-A) using conventional analog multi-channel inputs? If so how is sound-quality?

Thanks.......

I've been using only the HDMI connection for my PS3 as a DVD player. HDMI audio works fine for a standard DD or DTS bitstream, or 2 channels of LPCM. I also have a LD player hooked up in two ways -- I send coax digital and optical digital from the player, depending on whether or not I am playing an AC-3 capable LD. Everything works fine.

I don't have an SACD player other than the PS3, and the PS3 only puts out multichannel audio via either the optical out or the HDMI interface, so unfortunately I can't test this.
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post #215 of 4312 Old 10-14-2007, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Your S97 can play back DVD-Audio discs, so you can at least test whether the hardware in the NAD is capable of accepting multi-channel PCM (albeit not from a HD DVD or Blu-ray source). Hopefully you have some multi-channel DVD-A titles to use for testing purposes.

If your NAD is connected to the display via HDMI and you only get 2 channels of PCM being transmitted between your player and receiver, then try turning the display off or disconnecting it from the receiver. It's possible that the player is handshaking with a 2-channel device (the display) in the signal chain, and that's what is keeping it from outputting more than 2 channels. With the player only handshaking with the receiver, it may output multi-channel PCM.

Worth a try; should only take you a couple of minutes.

Sanjay

hmmm...that's a good point. that's probably the only thing I haven't tried yet. I'll give it a shot and let you know the results.
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post #216 of 4312 Old 10-14-2007, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by jnc1 View Post

hmmm...that's a good point. that's probably the only thing I haven't tried yet. I'll give it a shot and let you know the results.

that was a really good thought, and it might indeed be the problem, but unfortunately I really can't test this sufficiently. The t775 doesn't switch hdmi video to component out (only the other way around) so I can't see my way around the ps3 GUI to test this. I might be able to memorize controller button presses, but it's an iffy prospect. I did try to circumvent the hdmi handshake with the projector, however, by turning on the ps3 first, then the t775 and waiting for the audio to kick in. then i turned on the projector. I also tried turning the projector off during playback. none of that seemed to do anything.

I can tell you that when I turn the projector on and off during playback, the audio stops/starts, so obviously there is something going on here.

anyway when I speak with NAD I will volunteer this as a potential source of the problem, so again: thanks.
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post #217 of 4312 Old 10-14-2007, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jnc1 View Post

Lost in the shuffle here is the question regarding DSD bitstream and the T775. I would assume that it does not accept a DSD stream, but someone else would have to confirm as I don't have a player that will output a DSD stream. dan1010: do you have have a player capable of DSD, and if so, can you confirm this?

Thanks,
John

Henrik Thue Nielsen that is the director of NAD sales wrote that one had to use analog 5.1 to play SACD, so no DSD over HDMI.

I was considering a NAD reciever but lack of DSD, and apparently LPCM 5.1 as well, makes it a no-buy for me.
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post #218 of 4312 Old 10-14-2007, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

If your NAD is connected to the display via HDMI and you only get 2 channels of PCM being transmitted between your player and receiver, then try turning the display off or disconnecting it from the receiver. It's possible that the player is handshaking with a 2-channel device (the display) in the signal chain, and that's what is keeping it from outputting more than 2 channels. With the player only handshaking with the receiver, it may output multi-channel PCM.

Worth a try; should only take you a couple of minutes.

Sanjay

I'll try it as soon as I receive the Nad. I'll also post the serial number.

Magnus
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post #219 of 4312 Old 10-14-2007, 05:22 AM - Thread Starter
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They probably just shipped them this way to avoid further delays with the intention of upgrading them at a later time. From what people are describing the HDMI functions exactly like the SPDIF inputs.
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post #220 of 4312 Old 10-14-2007, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TommyV View Post

Ken, no actually. The player can decode the advanced audio (DD+, TrueHD etc.) and send it as digital multi-channel PCM over the HDMI connection to the receiver. It is similar to the analog connection but it remains in the digital realm (and is the nifty one wire solution). If the receiver can do all the processing necessary to high bitrate digital PCM (Dolby PL IIx, speaker distance and bass management settings) then you are in good shape. Most HDMI audio capable receivers can do this but some like Rotel's RSX-1058 seems to be lacking this important feature.

Edit: It seems I had some bad information about the Rotel RSX 1058. Reports now are that it does add bass management and speaker distances to multi channel LPCM. It is unsure if it is able to add 7.1 matrixing to ALL multi channel LPCM though. Information is still a a little hazy even though the unit has been out for a couple months.
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post #221 of 4312 Old 10-14-2007, 06:50 AM
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jnc1-

Sorry if I sounded too melodramatic. My association with NAD goes decades back, pre HT, when it was in Mass. and US built. I knew several of the people there.

I have a B&K AVR507 now, and am pleased you found the sound of the NAD superior to your B&K equipment. One question: do you find the NAD sound quality superior to the B&K without Audyssey?

No, I'm not going to wait for the B&K, which is still in the design stage with an optomistic release date of March 08. I expect its price will be higher than the NADs.

I have 2 T785s on order, which aren't expected till the end of November at the earliest. I hope the fix is implemented in the ones I get, but will take them and wait if they aren't.

Totally off topic, another interesting rec'r, also not due until March, is the Sherwood Newcastle R-972 which is, I believe, the first to incorporate Trinnov room correction, which is said to work in 3 dimensions.
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post #222 of 4312 Old 10-14-2007, 06:56 AM
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Is it now possible with the T775 to set the distance of the speakers for every one individually?

Magnus
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post #223 of 4312 Old 10-14-2007, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnc1 View Post

I did try to circumvent the hdmi handshake with the projector, however, by turning on the ps3 first, then the t775 and waiting for the audio to kick in. then i turned on the projector. I also tried turning the projector off during playback. none of that seemed to do anything.

I can tell you that when I turn the projector on and off during playback, the audio stops/starts, so obviously there is something going on here.

Yeah, it's the dreaded HDMI handshake. Makes me pine for the days of component video and simple optical or coax digital audio connectons. Remember how easy those were to use?

So when you turned off the projector during playback, or tried anything else, did you ever end up getting multi-channel PCM from your PS3? Have you tried this with Blu-ray and SACD? The reason I ask is because the PS3 converts SACD to multi-channel PCM before outputting via HDMI, and I doubt that SACDs have HDCP (copy protection), so it may not make the player handshake the way a Blu-ray disc would.

I may be reaching by asking you and Mungam to try these experiments, but I'm really curious whether the NAD hardware is not able to handle multi-channel PCM or whether there is some software in there telling it not to accept those type of signals. If it's the former, then nothing you can do about it. If it's the latter, then you can at least push NAD for a firmware upgrade down the road.

Sanjay

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post #224 of 4312 Old 10-14-2007, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

I may be reaching by asking you and Mungam to try these experiments, but I'm really curious whether the NAD hardware is not able to handle multi-channel PCM or whether there is some software in there telling it not to accept those type of signals. If it's the former, then nothing you can do about it. If it's the latter, then you can at least push NAD for a firmware upgrade down the road.

Sanjay

well, I would hope that even if a hardware upgrade is required it will still be possible with a new modular board, as that is how these are designed. I didn't try this with SACD, only a blu-ray playing a LPCM soundtrack. Nothing I did got it to play a LPCM multichannel track. I'll give it a shot with SACD, but my guess is that it will be the same result because it handshakes HDMI before any audio is output (when it boots up, or during sound setup.)

I didn't mention this in the previous post, but later on I found my old component cable for the PS2, which also works for the PS3, and connected it hoping that I could choose HDMI for audio and use the component for video. That also did not work. The PS3 gives an error when it tries to handshake with the receiver when one tries this configuration. It appears that the NAD must have a device connected to its HDMI monitor out in order to use any of the HDMI inputs.
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post #225 of 4312 Old 10-14-2007, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mungam View Post

Is it now possible with the T775 to set the distance of the speakers for every one individually?

Magnus

yes, this is possible. It is part of the audyssey setup or can be done manually.
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post #226 of 4312 Old 10-14-2007, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

Sorry if I sounded too melodramatic. My association with NAD goes decades back, pre HT, when it was in Mass. and US built. I knew several of the people there.

I hope I didn't come off too preachy Not intended at all if that's the case. If so, my apologies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

I have a B&K AVR507 now, and am pleased you found the sound of the NAD superior to your B&K equipment. One question: do you find the NAD sound quality superior to the B&K without Audyssey?

actually, yes. I think the NAD amp is superior, but remember I was using lower power 80 wpc amps. Two of them were adcom and one was NAD. I didn't ever feel like there was quite enough power during big dynamic transients with that setup. Also, I like the burr-brown's better than the AK DAC's in the Reference 30.
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No, I'm not going to wait for the B&K, which is still in the design stage with an optomistic release date of March 08. I expect its price will be higher than the NADs.

glad to hear you also enjoyed B&K, which is a Buffalo, NY company, my hometown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

also not due until March, is the Sherwood Newcastle R-972 which is, I believe, the first to incorporate Trinnov room correction, which is said to work in 3 dimensions.

I'm very interested to see how this receiver performs vs. those with audyssey.

John
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post #227 of 4312 Old 10-14-2007, 10:56 AM
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Does the T775 offer a manual EQ mode or is Audyssey your only EQ choice?

Dennis H
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post #228 of 4312 Old 10-14-2007, 02:30 PM
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no manual EQ

Noah
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post #229 of 4312 Old 10-15-2007, 04:23 AM
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My dealer just told me that he made a mistake and doesn't have the T775 in stock. So it'll take another 4 weeks until I can post my serial number and check the HDMI Audio

Magnus
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post #230 of 4312 Old 10-15-2007, 04:52 AM
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In regards to the HDMI problem what surround functions does this specifically affect. For instance will I be able to pass a full surround signal from say a Blue Ray/ HD Dvd player to the NAD via HDMI or will I have to use some older output like optical?
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post #231 of 4312 Old 10-15-2007, 07:00 AM
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I finally heard back from NAD. Here is the response:

"Thank you for your recent request via the NAD Electronics web-site.

On the very first T775 units, 8 channel LPCM over HDMI is not supported, only 2 channels. However, NAD will cover the cost of a solution which will enable 8 channels of LPCM over HDMI. Please contact your dealer to have this work done.
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post #232 of 4312 Old 10-15-2007, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by raffiafinati View Post

In regards to the HDMI problem what surround functions does this specifically affect. For instance will I be able to pass a full surround signal from say a Blue Ray/ HD Dvd player to the NAD via HDMI or will I have to use some older output like optical?

Well, according to the news from NAD this morning, this is only a problem with the first T775 units. That being said, if you happen to get an early T775, the HDMI input functions just like an optical or coax digital audio input. So you will be able to use it to pass DD or DTS bitstream, or two channel LPCM audio. For details please read earlier posts in the thread
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post #233 of 4312 Old 10-15-2007, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mungam View Post

My dealer just told me that he made a mistake and doesn't have the T775 in stock. So it'll take another 4 weeks until I can post my serial number and check the HDMI Audio

Magnus

Actually this is probably a good thing -- I would check with him about the reason for this, but most likely they were contacted by NAD telling them to hold off until the fix can be applied.

BTW, I wouldn't post your serial number, just the version number. However, since it appears that the reason for the problem has just been answered by NAD, this isn't as much of a mystery any more.
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post #234 of 4312 Old 10-15-2007, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnc1 View Post

I finally heard back from NAD. Here is the response:

"Thank you for your recent request via the NAD Electronics web-site.

On the very first T775 units, 8 channel LPCM over HDMI is not supported, only 2 channels. However, NAD will cover the cost of a solution which will enable 8 channels of LPCM over HDMI. Please contact your dealer to have this work done.

Thats great news John!!

Probably explains the reasoning of delays of the units

Bring on the big T785

Ken
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post #235 of 4312 Old 10-15-2007, 07:57 AM
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Well, took my T765 (replacing my T762) apart and hopefully it still works. Took some pics too. It looks like the DD/DTS board is actually on the digital audio part of the HDMI board along with 5 stereo, I assume, Burr-Brown DACs. I assume all the new NADs have BBs because they are a subsidiary of TI. I assume that the T775 & up versions have a different HDMI board with audio and either routes the audio to the digital audio board or decodes it there. The boards all came out pretty easily, so upgrading should be easy as well. Many of the boards indicated they are used in all of the models, but the HDMI section did not.

If anyone wants to upload some of the pics, let me know and I can e-mail them to you.

John
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post #236 of 4312 Old 10-15-2007, 11:31 AM
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Just rec'd an email from NAD. No plans for an upgrade to handle bitstream Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD-MA, whic is not a big deal if the player converts the frmats to LCPM.
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post #237 of 4312 Old 10-15-2007, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by nek View Post

Thats great news John!!

Probably explains the reasoning of delays of the units

Bring on the big T785

Ken

yes, and the fact that it is apparently only the early version of the T775 that have this problem--implying that the new version does not -- there is reason to believe that the fix already exists and should be forthcoming very shortly.

Also, assuming the rest of this process goes smoothly, you have to hand it to NAD for volunteering a warranty fix at no additional charge. I know we can all say this is something that they should be doing anyway, but think about it: how many times does one hear of a company volunteering this type of thing? I know my T775 isn't fixed yet, but I'm already impressed with how this is being handled. It's nice to see a company honoring commitments rather than hiding behind some fine-print.

John
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post #238 of 4312 Old 10-15-2007, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

Just rec'd an email from NAD. No plans for an upgrade to handle bitstream Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD-MA, whic is not a big deal if the player converts the frmats to LCPM.

this is fine, since most players convert it to LPCM anyway. I don't think it can be ruled out down the road, though. I guess this rules out any planned upgrade to allow a DSD stream as well...
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post #239 of 4312 Old 10-15-2007, 11:44 AM
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Any good news on T755 availability? (I don't need all 7 channels...)

PW
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post #240 of 4312 Old 10-15-2007, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Well, took my T765 (replacing my T762) ...

I have a T762, too. What do you think about the sound improvement over the T762? Could you also write something about the changes which are not covered on the NAD website (like the ability to set the distance for every single speaker now).

Thanks, Magnus
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