The "Official" Denon AVR-2808CI Owners Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3822 Old 01-22-2008, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by HD Theater is it View Post

Thanks, I am "really" waiting on 7.1 to be standard on every HD/BD not the 5.1 that you currently find.

It certainly would be nice. I get very frustrated with the evolutionary nature of this transition. I can't remember back to the beginning of DVD, but it didn't seem we had all of these growing pains at that time. I know there was a period when there were players and receivers that lacked DTS, but that seemed minimal. Now it seems like every six months some new feature is introduced or upgraded and we all have to march back down to Best Buy with our credit cards in-hand just to get what we were promised all along, whether by content providers, hardware manufacturers, or standardization organizations.

How long was it before CD players could all handle both Sony and Phillips discs? Maybe I'm just being unreasonable.

This introduces a question that I hadn't probed into before, though. Can our receivers matrix a 7.1 sound-scape out of a 5.1 Dolby True HD, DTS-HD Master Audio, or LPCM track? Not that I wouldn't rather have discrete 7.1, but those two rear channels are much less critical in my arrangement. They are nice, though. On my old Pioneer VSX-1015TX, I ran a few of the newer 6 and 7 channel formats, and they really did feel more enveloping. I think the Gladiator DVD had a great DTS-ES 6.1 track.
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post #542 of 3822 Old 01-22-2008, 07:26 PM
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whatup guys, iam getting the 2308ci very soon. i know it comes xm ready but how would i hook up sirius to this receiver and which home kit should i buy?

Panasonic GT30 65"
Pioneer Elite 62FD
Pioneer SP-52FS Mains
Pioneer c-22 center
Klipsch RB-51's surround
Klipsch RW-12D subs (2)
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post #543 of 3822 Old 01-23-2008, 11:32 AM
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So here I am back with the report I stated I would give. I went home last night and hooked up hdmi out from LG BH200 and in to HDMI 1 in on 988. Connected hdmi out from 988 to hdmi in on jvc hdila. in 988 setup menu, set hdmi to auto. in lg setup, for audio, HDMI > primary pass-thru. after inserting all types of disc (kingdom, live free or die hard, 3:10 to yuma...) pressed STD button on the flip side of the remote, as well as "Standard" button on face of the AVR, as per page 36 instructions. No TrueHD, DD+ or DTS HD lights. Next, only thing to try is setting LG's sound to HDMI> PCM multi ch with a 7.1 disc (Shoot em up), even though I have a 5.1 config. Is this last step ideal? Why or why not? Am I doing things wrong?
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post #544 of 3822 Old 01-23-2008, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvmyjvc View Post

So here I am back with the report I stated I would give. I went home last night and hooked up hdmi out from LG BH200 and in to HDMI 1 in on 988. Connected hdmi out from 988 to hdmi in on jvc hdila. in 988 setup menu, set hdmi to auto. in lg setup, for audio, HDMI > primary pass-thru. after inserting all types of disc (kingdom, live free or die hard, 3:10 to yuma...) pressed STD button on the flip side of the remote, as well as "Standard" button on face of the AVR, as per page 36 instructions. No TrueHD, DD+ or DTS HD lights. Next, only thing to try is setting LG's sound to HDMI> PCM multi ch with a 7.1 disc (Shoot em up), even though I have a 5.1 config. Is this last step ideal? Why or why not? Am I doing things wrong?

The LG BH200 does not bitstream any of the advanced codecs; you wont get the Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital+ or DTS HD MA indicators to light up. It also only supports decoding Dolby TrueHD to 2-channels only - not sure what it decodes DTS HD codecs to but it probably just extracts the DTS core. AFAIK the LG only fully supports LPCM tracks properly ie 5.1/7.1 LPCM tracks are output correctly. Check this forum for more details:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=926099
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post #545 of 3822 Old 01-23-2008, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvmyjvc View Post

So here I am back with the report I stated I would give. I went home last night and hooked up hdmi out from LG BH200 and in to HDMI 1 in on 988. Connected hdmi out from 988 to hdmi in on jvc hdila. in 988 setup menu, set hdmi to auto. in lg setup, for audio, HDMI > primary pass-thru. after inserting all types of disc (kingdom, live free or die hard, 3:10 to yuma...) pressed STD button on the flip side of the remote, as well as "Standard" button on face of the AVR, as per page 36 instructions. No TrueHD, DD+ or DTS HD lights. Next, only thing to try is setting LG's sound to HDMI> PCM multi ch with a 7.1 disc (Shoot em up), even though I have a 5.1 config. Is this last step ideal? Why or why not? Am I doing things wrong?

I'm not familiar with the LG itself, so I may not have the knowledge base to address your issue completely, but if you have your LG set to HDMI "passthrough," my immediate thoughts are that this is a setting used to send a video-only signal to a display device, in the event that you're sending audio via optical or analogue-outputs to a receiver.

You will not see any DD+ or DTS-HD lights ever because there is no way for the LG to send high-definition, or even these "semi" high-definition, formats via bitstream to a receiver. Your only option for outputting high-definition audio is to have the LG decode the format internally and output the audio as LPCM. So set your LG to PCM and your receiver to automatically detect the incoming digital signal, and you'll be getting all that you can out of your LG.

Keep in mind that, although the LG does not decode DTS-HD Master Audio, it will decode Dolby True HD, and all of the core tracks, so it's fine to output PCM because LPCM is exactly what the receiver would internally decode Dolby True HD or DTS-HD Master Audio, or whatever else to anyhow.

LPCM is the format of any lossless audio track. Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio are just methods for compressing that LPCM audio into a smaller size for storage on a disc.

I should also mention that sending a 7.1 channel signal to a 5.1 system is not an issue. If you don't have rear surround speakers, you simply won't get the rear surround tracks. It certainly won't interfere with your ability to hear the other channels. The rear left and rear right channels are supplemental to left and right, and it is with customers like you in mind that studios mix 7.1 such that the absence of the two extra speakers will not result in a loss of essential audio information. Usually these channels are made to bridge the panning of a moving point of sound across the back of the room. So if you have a helicopter flying around the on-screen subject, you'll hear said helicopter move from left to rear left to rear right to right, whereas with a 5.1 system, you'll simply hear it move from left to right and your brain, for the most part, will interpret this as something having moved behind your seating position.
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post #546 of 3822 Old 01-24-2008, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by HD Theater is it View Post

But mine is with the sammy 5000, I have never gotten DD-HD or DTS-HD to light up, just the multi in. I think the issue is with the playstation and the 1400 not having the codes.

Just to let you all know that my Denon 2808CI does decode the new codecs and " DTS-HD Master Audio " appears on the AVR panel. I have the Pannasonic BD-30K Blu-ray player. It does not decode it internally so I have to bitstream it to the AVR using HDMI 1.3 cables. Works like a charm. Sound is breathtaking. Your BD player has to support the new codecs for it to work.

Mériadec
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post #547 of 3822 Old 01-24-2008, 03:34 PM
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Hey guys, does anyone know if the 110 watts per is peak or rms, thanks.
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post #548 of 3822 Old 01-25-2008, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jeld View Post

whatup guys, iam getting the 2308ci very soon. i know it comes xm ready but how would i hook up sirius to this receiver and which home kit should i buy?

2308??? I have an extra AVR-2808ci if your interested...if your interested PM me we will work out a good deal...OH and its new
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post #549 of 3822 Old 01-26-2008, 09:18 AM
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2808 owners...

What is your opinion of the Faroudja FLi2310 scaler used in the 2808?

Thanks
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post #550 of 3822 Old 01-26-2008, 09:19 AM
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Hi,
I currently have the 2808ci and have run audessey setup twice carefully following all the instructions from the audessey forum. I have Paradigm Titans for L/R and Paradigm CC-190 for Center. The Titans are ear level and the center is above the tv pointed down towards ear level mounted on the wall a foot behind. The audessey setup got the speaker distances correct and in general it sounds great, but I almost find the voices almost seem a little compressed, not as full as they should be. Has anybody run into this? Do most owners of this amp use audessey? Where can I tweak the center settings?

Thanks
Phil
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post #551 of 3822 Old 01-26-2008, 09:22 AM
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I just purchased a 2808 and connected my cable box to the receiver via component video connectors to (TV/CBL). HDMI from receiver to LCD. I can't get a picture. I can get the menu from the receiver on the screen but no picture from the cable box. I've been going through the menu and trying different inputs with no luck. Am I over looking something? Any help would be appreciated.
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post #552 of 3822 Old 01-26-2008, 11:19 AM
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Okay,
I just turned of tone control and it seems to have help with the center channel. Can somebody tell me what tone control does? Do most people leave it on or off?

Thanks
Phil
Quote:
Originally Posted by plouie10 View Post

Hi,
I currently have the 2808ci and have run audessey setup twice carefully following all the instructions from the audessey forum. I have Paradigm Titans for L/R and Paradigm CC-190 for Center. The Titans are ear level and the center is above the tv pointed down towards ear level mounted on the wall a foot behind. The audessey setup got the speaker distances correct and in general it sounds great, but I almost find the voices almost seem a little compressed, not as full as they should be. Has anybody run into this? Do most owners of this amp use audessey? Where can I tweak the center settings?

Thanks
Phil

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post #553 of 3822 Old 01-26-2008, 09:10 PM
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I have a ps3 connected to the denon using hdmi. I rented rush hour 3 yesterday and it has dts-hd ma 7.1 audio track. I set the ps3 to linear and the denon displays muti channel in but the sound is coming only in stereo. I have a 5.1 set up. I cannot figure out why or how to get surround sound, any help would be greatly appreciated. All other sound formats output correctly.
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post #554 of 3822 Old 01-26-2008, 09:36 PM
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Hi there, I searched this thread and noticed a couple of other people also asked about comparisons between the two, but no consensus as to which is better.

I'm able to get both for the same price, and on paper, the Yamaha not only has 4 HDMI inputs vs. 2, but it also puts out 130 Watts per channel vs. 110. Only negative for it is YPAO vs. Audyssey, and that it's made in Malaysia apparently vs. Japan.

I was set on gettin the 2808 until this deal came along, and I'd thought I'd just get an HDMI switch if I ever needed more than 2, which is all i need right now.

Can anyone help me out?
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post #555 of 3822 Old 01-27-2008, 05:21 AM
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I've owned this receiver for a couple of weeks now, and I am amazed. What a piece of crap interface! I have owned 2 Denon AVRs and 3 Denon DVD players and have loved them. It's unbelievable how hard it is to figure things out that should be so simple and straight forward.

Could someone tell me why I can't get anything out of my Zone 2? I have Amp Assign set to run 7.1. I have the Zone 2 Pre-Outs connected to a separate amplifier. I turn Zone 2 "On". I select the Zone 2 source. I get nothing in my second room. As a test, I connected an Ipod directly to the second amplifier and everything works just fine. What am I missing?
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post #556 of 3822 Old 01-27-2008, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shabang View Post

I have a ps3 connected to the denon using hdmi. I rented rush hour 3 yesterday and it has dts-hd ma 7.1 audio track. I set the ps3 to linear and the denon displays muti channel in but the sound is coming only in stereo. I have a 5.1 set up. I cannot figure out why or how to get surround sound, any help would be greatly appreciated. All other sound formats output correctly.

The Denon is telling you that the audio is coming from the source already decoded by the PS3. I assume this corresponds to the "linear" setting on the PS3. At this point the Denon has no way of knowing how the audio was originally encoded on the source so it is hard to conclude that the Denon is somehow mishandling just this particular format.

It could be that the DTS-HD MA track on this DVD is simply a stereo signal, although that seems unlikely. Presumably you would still be getting the higher fidelity signal, but in only two channels. So, maybe this is how it is on the Rush Hour 3 DVD, intentionally or not.

It could also be that the PS3 is mishandling it. Maybe you could get another title with DTS-HS MA ans see how that works.

Also, your Denon is capable of decoding DTS-HD MA so set your PS3 to bitstream to let the Denon handle it and see what happens.

rcp
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post #557 of 3822 Old 01-27-2008, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsen View Post

The Denon is telling you that the audio is coming from the source already decoded by the PS3. I assume this corresponds to the "linear" setting on the PS3. At this point the Denon has no way of knowing how the audio was originally encoded on the source so it is hard to conclude that the Denon is somehow mishandling just this particular format.

It could be that the DTS-HD MA track on this DVD is simply a stereo signal, although that seems unlikely. Presumably you would still be getting the higher fidelity signal, but in only two channels. So, maybe this is how it is on the Rush Hour 3 DVD, intentionally or not.

It could also be that the PS3 is mishandling it. Maybe you could get another title with DTS-HS MA ans see how that works.

Also, your Denon is capable of decoding DTS-HD MA so set your PS3 to bitstream to let the Denon handle it and see what happens.

rcp

For those that didn't know - the PS3 does NOT support HD MA in ANY format. It will only output it as DTS. This is a big conversation that occurs on the PS3 thread I also subscribe. If your PS3 is your BD players (as it is mine) - you will NEVER see any lights other than Multi-Input on the Denon since the PS3 must convert the signal before sending it.

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post #558 of 3822 Old 01-27-2008, 06:16 PM
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A few years ago I bought a Denon AVR 1804 demo model and setting it up thinking it was so great. Well, I finally decided to upgrade about a month ago, I wanted a Blu-ray player (Denon 2500, still waiting for it to arrive), so I looked and fell for the 2808CI. After a month of use I can say this: The movies coming out of my Sony DVP-S7700 have never looked better! This Receiver is truly spectacular!
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post #559 of 3822 Old 01-28-2008, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMaple View Post

I've owned this receiver for a couple of weeks now, and I am amazed. What a piece of crap interface! I have owned 2 Denon AVRs and 3 Denon DVD players and have loved them. It's unbelievable how hard it is to figure things out that should be so simple and straight forward.

Could someone tell me why I can't get anything out of my Zone 2? I have Amp Assign set to run 7.1. I have the Zone 2 Pre-Outs connected to a separate amplifier. I turn Zone 2 "On". I select the Zone 2 source. I get nothing in my second room. As a test, I connected an Ipod directly to the second amplifier and everything works just fine. What am I missing?

If I remember correctly, if you do 7.1 amp assign that's your problem. I'm pretty sure to get zone 2 you have to do 5.1 + zone 2, which assigns the rear surround speakers to the second zone. I may be wrong but that's how I had understood it.
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post #560 of 3822 Old 01-28-2008, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremesniper View Post

If I remember correctly, if you do 7.1 amp assign that's your problem. I'm pretty sure to get zone 2 you have to do 5.1 + zone 2, which assigns the rear surround speakers to the second zone. I may be wrong but that's how I had understood it.

Correct. Although very confusing, check pp. 58-59 in the Users manual to confirm the possible layouts.

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post #561 of 3822 Old 01-28-2008, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiro View Post

Hi there, I searched this thread and noticed a couple of other people also asked about comparisons between the two, but no consensus as to which is better.

I'm able to get both for the same price, and on paper, the Yamaha not only has 4 HDMI inputs vs. 2, but it also puts out 130 Watts per channel vs. 110. Only negative for it is YPAO vs. Audyssey, and that it's made in Malaysia apparently vs. Japan.

I was set on gettin the 2808 until this deal came along, and I'd thought I'd just get an HDMI switch if I ever needed more than 2, which is all i need right now.

Can anyone help me out?

Is there any chance you can hear them side-by-side? Picking one, based on the paper specs isn't the way to go.

I found that Denon sounded better to me, so I went for it. Plus, the build quality seemed better (to me).
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post #562 of 3822 Old 01-28-2008, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Correct. Although very confusing, check pp. 58-59 in the Users manual to confirm the possible layouts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremesniper View Post

If I remember correctly, if you do 7.1 amp assign that's your problem. I'm pretty sure to get zone 2 you have to do 5.1 + zone 2, which assigns the rear surround speakers to the second zone. I may be wrong but that's how I had understood it.


I just re-read the manual to see if I was missing anything. Setting 1 (pg 57, 5.1 + zone 2) will give you 5.1 in your main room and powered zone 2 output via the speaker connections. This is not my setup. Setting 2 (pg 58, 7.1) will provide 7.1 powered output to the main room through the speaker settings. This is my setup. Pages 59-60 discuss the zone 2 and zone 3 pre-outs.

I just read a note on page 60 that might be the problem:
"Digital audio signals input from the HDMI connectors cannot be played in multi-zone".

I will have to try something other than my satellite receiver or PS3 tonight. I may have to make an analog connection from those two devices just to provide zone 2 with an appropriate signal.
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post #563 of 3822 Old 01-28-2008, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMaple View Post

I just re-read the manual to see if I was missing anything. Setting 1 (pg 57, 5.1 + zone 2) will give you 5.1 in your main room and powered zone 2 output via the speaker connections. This is not my setup. Setting 2 (pg 58, 7.1) will provide 7.1 powered output to the main room through the speaker settings. This is my setup. Pages 59-60 discuss the zone 2 and zone 3 pre-outs.

I just read a note on page 60 that might be the problem:
"Digital audio signals input from the HDMI connectors cannot be played in multi-zone".

I will have to try something other than my satellite receiver or PS3 tonight. I may have to make an analog connection from those two devices just to provide zone 2 with an appropriate signal.


I plugged an iPod into an analog input and then selected that as the zone 2 source. It works!
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post #564 of 3822 Old 01-28-2008, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by NoPlasmaYet View Post

Is there any chance you can hear them side-by-side? Picking one, based on the paper specs isn't the way to go.

I found that Denon sounded better to me, so I went for it. Plus, the build quality seemed better (to me).

Thanks for the tips. Do you recommend listening to both on the same set of speakers then? That would be a bit hard to set up at the store, and I would think if I don't listen to the same speakers on both amps, will I be comparing apples to apples?
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post #565 of 3822 Old 01-28-2008, 08:59 PM
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Hi everyone,

I have a few questions for you wrt this reciever (I have AVR-988) :

1)
during initial setup proces ( I took easurements in 8 positions) , my sub was set at 0.00DB and it was not making any sound until I increased the level to +12DB - what's the recommended value for movies and for music. I know it may ve personal prefrence but I woudl like to know your opinion on what it shoudl be at ?

2)
Conversly, what setup should I use for speakers when i am watching movies and music: should all the speakers be set to small for movies and large fron, rest small for music ? Once again, your input would be appreciated.

3)

Does 988 upscale component to 1080p and if so how good od a job is it doing , I am trying to see if it is worthwhile that I up convert 1080i broadcast from Rogers HD PVR cable box via component video ?

4) why there are 2 sets of speakers lights on teh front panel of 988ne on the left and one of the right - what's the significance of those ?

5) Can I get OSD via HDMI connection and if so how ? I woudl like to display volume bars on the TV and other info as well. I am uisng HDMI as a monitor out to TV.


Thanks so much for your help,
Nikonowski
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post #566 of 3822 Old 01-29-2008, 04:37 AM
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So, I just finished hooking up my new receiver. I will just post my first impressions of what I don't like about the receiver. I assume most people (like myself) expect a Denon receiver to be great, so they are more concerned that what people don't like about them.

1) The unit uses volitile memory to store settings. While the manual claims that the unit will hold all settings with the power off/unplugged for a week, I don't consider that acceptable. I frequently travel for more that a week at a time, and I need to turn off my power strip when I leave the house for a couple of weeks at a time (for various reasons that are not pertinent to this post). First, I have no idea why Denon wouldn't use flash memory. How much would it add to the cost of the unit to include maybe 128K of flash memory. 50 cents? On a receiver costing about $1,000, I expect it. Especially when my very old Sony receiver that it is replacing uses flash. Setup is quite time consuming, so going through the process twice is definately to be avoided. And the manual is quite confusing on the subject. It appears that even if the unit is plugged in but powered off, it will still lose memory after a week. And the manual also recommends unplugging the unit if away for long periods (what type of moron wrote that). I am therefore forced to keep it in standby mode on a permanent basis.

2) There is no video downconversion. Wow, I wish I knew that before I bought the thing. My mistake, as I should have checked on it first. My DVR, DVD recorder, and Archos are pretty much useless with it. Also, I was planning on using my Archos to monitor the on-screen displays of various audio devices without turning on the TV. It's not the $70 I have to pay to buy a stand alone converter, it's the hassle. It is one more device I have to stick in my cabinet, with another bunch of cables to hook up, and makes the whole setup more confusing, especially when having to teach my family how to use it. Was I really wrong in assuming a high-end a/v receiver should include such functionality? I quick check online indicates the Sony receivers do it. Denon appears to go to great lengths with marginal features such as amp-assign, multi zone, al24 processing, etc, etc, etc, but is lacking in the core feature that a a/v receiver should have. Namely, the ability to switch between different components. ESPECIALLY in this day and age, when there are so many different input/output types. I guess just like flash costs a little more $$ than volitile memory, a downconverter would add a couple of more bucks to their costs.

And also, I don't particularly like the remote. But they tried, and it does an adequate job. I had this crazy idea before I bought the unit that maybe it could replace my pronto. What was I smoking!

Of course, there are some things that really rock about the receiver. I think Audissey is maybe the greatest advancement in home theater since the first version pro-logic 20 years ago. But at the end of the day, without video down-conversion, it just doesn't meet my needs. In the past, I always bought audio/video gear at a local reatailer with a return policy. However, I now live in the Philippines and I have no plans to fly back to the US, so it will have to do.

Also, I am guilty of not reading any of this thread in a couple of months so I assume there is nothing new in my post, but if I am missing the boat on something that had been discussed somewhere in the 17 pages of this thread, please let me know and I'll do some reading.
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post #567 of 3822 Old 01-29-2008, 10:39 AM
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If I go through the Audyssey equalization procedure it seems to overwrite the previous results, ie. equalization settings. Is there a way to get back to the previous settings. Or, can you evaluate the most recent measurements without overwriting the previous settings. It would be nice to first listen to the results before saving.

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post #568 of 3822 Old 01-29-2008, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plouie10 View Post

Hi,
I currently have the 2808ci and have run audessey setup twice carefully following all the instructions from the audessey forum. I have Paradigm Titans for L/R and Paradigm CC-190 for Center. The Titans are ear level and the center is above the tv pointed down towards ear level mounted on the wall a foot behind. The audessey setup got the speaker distances correct and in general it sounds great, but I almost find the voices almost seem a little compressed, not as full as they should be. Has anybody run into this? Do most owners of this amp use audessey? Where can I tweak the center settings?

Thanks
Phil

As far as I know you can't tweak Audyssey.

I feel the same way you do. I love what it doing in the bass, but its screwing with the midrange a little too much. Male vocals sound thin. Take a look at the crude EQ settings from the measurements and see if there is some setting the looks out of whack.

I think you have two options:
1) Repeat the measurements with different mic positions. I have found the mic positions clustered closer to the listening spot gave better results for me and lessened the bad aspects of the EQ.
2) Copy the EQ curves to the manual EQ. Then leave the settings alone in the bass, and set everything > 500 Hz to flat. See how this sounds. You won't get be getting Audyssey EQ, but you may get better bass equalization and overall sound.

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post #569 of 3822 Old 01-29-2008, 02:22 PM
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Am I the only person who bought this thing thinking it would have the same DACs as the 3808ci and 4308ci? I expected reduced AL24 processing and no discrete circuitry, but when they finally got around to posting the specs for the 2808ci, I felt like the use of one cheap value-produced DSD-1608 to handle all D/A conversion for 8 channels vs. the dual PCM-1791A DACs used on EACH of 8 channels for the rest of the line up was a real slap in the face.

I'm stuck with it now, but I'm not happy. I also see that the A/D sampling rate lower and the video DAC is 10 bit instead of 12 bit. I'm not sure you get much value in the jump between the 3808ci and 4308ci, but as a very disgruntled customer, I would tell anyone considering buying this receiver to stop dead in their tracks and hold out until they can front a few hundred more for the next model up. For $400 or so MSRP, you get networking and PC-interaction, better amplifier section, better DACs, better ADCs, two more HDMI inputs, etc. These are real improvements. I can't believe I was taken. Thanks a bunch, Denon. What a piece.
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post #570 of 3822 Old 01-30-2008, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by skablaw View Post

Am I the only person who bought this thing thinking it would have the same DACs as the 3808ci and 4308ci? I expected reduced AL24 processing and no discrete circuitry, but when they finally got around to posting the specs for the 2808ci, I felt like the use of one cheap value-produced DSD-1608 to handle all D/A conversion for 8 channels vs. the dual PCM-1791A DACs used on EACH of 8 channels for the rest of the line up was a real slap in the face.

I'm stuck with it now, but I'm not happy. I also see that the A/D sampling rate lower and the video DAC is 10 bit instead of 12 bit. I'm not sure you get much value in the jump between the 3808ci and 4308ci, but as a very disgruntled customer, I would tell anyone considering buying this receiver to stop dead in their tracks and hold out until they can front a few hundred more for the next model up. For $400 or so MSRP, you get networking and PC-interaction, better amplifier section, better DACs, better ADCs, two more HDMI inputs, etc. These are real improvements. I can't believe I was taken. Thanks a bunch, Denon. What a piece.

How is that Denon's fault?

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