The "Official" Denon AVR-2808CI Owners Thread - Page 76 - AVS Forum
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post #2251 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 10:57 AM
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are any speakers set to large? if so, set them all to small with at least an 80Hz crossover to make sure the sub is engaged. What surround mode are you in when watching PS3 over HDMI? "MULTI CH DIRECT" mode disables bass management, if you are in that mode try hitting the "STD" button to back to "MULTI CH IN".

also, run Audyssey. Follow the set up guide and tweak the subwoofer so you get it close to 0dB on the channel level trim. Here is an explanation of what I mean that I posted recently on the 2809 thread:

Quote:


For the sub volume/gain, the goal is to get the subwoofer's channel level trim as close to 0dB as possible when audyssey is done. If you have an SPL meter you can quickly adjust the sub volume manually so it's close before running audyssey; otherwise, the common procedure is to go to the main/central listening position (the 1st and most important measurment point) and just run a quick 1-position Audyssey run, and let it calculate and check parameters. If you get an odd result (i.e. the sub gain is at -12dB and all the other trims are extremely low) adjust the sub's volume/gain control and try again.

The idea is that you want the sub's level trim to be within +/- 5dB or so of 0, so that you have "wiggle room" to adjust if needed. You also avoid a situation where, for example, the sub's gain is way too low so Audyssey puts it at +12dB and then you get bad, boomy bass because Audyssey is "fighting" the sub to get proper output for the room.


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post #2252 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The PS3 is not physically capable of bit streaming the HD audio codecs so all you'll ever get on the Denon is MULT CH IN. What are your speaker settings after running the Audyssey AUTO SETUP?

Oh I know and that is why I am using the PS3 to decode.

I have only done manual speaker set up and then had to turn the sub way up, speakers down in set up and the volume on the sub when playing blu ray to got a good base response. Shouldn't I be able to turn up the sub manually and get bass out of the sub? I have never used an auto setting in the past. I have always set the speakers myself with past receivers.

Why would I be getting poor bass response when playing 2 channel Stereo PCM and 7 channel Stereo from my CD player? (via rca cables)

Ps. I just started tweeking/learning this unit and still have a huge learning curve for this receiver. I really appreciate any helpful advice. Thx[/quote]
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post #2253 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

are any speakers set to large? if so, set them all to small with at least an 80Hz crossover to make sure the sub is engaged. What surround mode are you in when watching PS3 over HDMI? "MULTI CH DIRECT" mode disables bass management, if you are in that mode try hitting the "STD" button to back to "MULTI CH IN".

also, run Audyssey. Follow the set up guide and tweak the subwoofer so you get it close to 0dB on the channel level trim. Here is an explanation of what I mean that I posted recently on the 2809 thread:

I have the speakers set to small and the sub set to ON and LFE/MAIN. The receiver says Multi Channel In when a blu ray is playing on the PS3.
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post #2254 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 11:46 AM
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let's do some troubleshooting - first, standardize the source signal to eliminate that as a variable. grab a music CD, and try playing it from all three possible sources (PS3, CDP, and 360). Put the Denon in the same surround mode for all three, and see if the CD sounds the same from all three.

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post #2255 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blsitter7 View Post

Oh I know and that is why I am using the PS3 to decode.

I have only done manual speaker set up and then had to turn the sub way up, speakers down in set up and the volume on the sub when playing blu ray to got a good base response. Shouldn't I be able to turn up the sub manually and get bass out of the sub? I have never used an auto setting in the past. I have always set the speakers myself with past receivers.

Why would I be getting poor bass response when playing 2 channel Stereo PCM and 7 channel Stereo from my CD player? (via rca cables)

Ps. I just started tweeking/learning this unit and still have a huge learning curve for this receiver. I really appreciate any helpful advice. Thx

you should run the audyssey setting a few times for the main listening position to see what it does to offset your sub. when you get it to +/- 3 (by turning up or down your sub) then do audyssey again at 8 measuring points.
to use audyssey correctly i used this link/thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895

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post #2256 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 12:43 PM
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Hi All,

I have a question concerning the analog to digital video conversion on these Denon AVRs: I have a 1080p TV and I'm considering purchasing a 789, 889 or 2808CI. My quesion is, would I be better off connecting my HD cable (max resolution of 1080i or 720p) to my receiver then to my TV, all via HDMI or would I be better off connecting the cable box to the AVR via component cables (analog) and then the AVR to the TV via HDMI? The second way would allow me to have the AVR scale the images to 1080P if I understand correctly. Would the image quality be better in the second scenario?

Thanks in advance for your response!

Cheers,
D
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post #2257 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 12:46 PM
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Hello Everyone,

I am new to this forum. My wife and I just recently purchased a 2808 to support the following TV, DVD player, and speakers in a 7.1 system:

TV = Samsung HL61A750
DVD Player = Samsung BD-UP5000 (plays Blu-Ray and HD-DVD)
Front Speakers = Klipsch RF-62
Center Speaker = Klipsch RC-62
Subwoofer = Klipsch RW-8
Side Surround Speakers = Klipsch SB-1
Rear Surround Speakers = Klipsch XB-10

Did we make a good choice with the 2808 and should it have enough power to cleanly and efficiently run our speaker system? We bought it primarily for watching movies and television and will also listen to a little music.

Please let me know your comments/thoughts and any tips you may have for making this system sound great.

Thanks,
Eric
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post #2258 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 12:46 PM
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Quote:


Would the image quality be better in the second scenario?

probably not. your 1080p television is likely better at processing 720p/1080i HD cable signals than the little Faroudja chip in the Denon. In fact, the Faroudja is specifically poor at 1080i deinterlacing.

Check out the FAQ on my website esp. the part about the video processing, I post a link there to reviews of the HD video processing of the 3808ci and it's not that great

http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#section_03

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post #2259 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELJ427Shelby View Post

Please let me know your comments/thoughts and any tips you may have for making this system sound great.

The 2808ci is an awesome receiver with many happy owners, good choice. Klipsch makes very efficient speakers and any modern receiver should have zero trouble powering them to ridiculous volumes.

See the link in my signature for a comprehensive setup guide and FAQ for your Denon. After you have taken the time to read through it and the links, as well as the AVR FAQ at the top of this forum, feel free to email me or post here if you have any specific follow-up questions.

They key to awesome sound is properly running the Audyssey set-up! Follow the step-by-step guide linked at my website and the first post of the "official" audyssey thread.

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post #2260 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

probably not. your 1080p television is likely better at processing 720p/1080i HD cable signals than the little Faroudja chip in the Denon. In fact, the Faroudja is specifically poor at 1080i deinterlacing.

Check out the FAQ on my website esp. the part about the video processing, I post a link there to reviews of the HD video processing of the 3808ci and it's not that great

http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#section_03

But, in all fairness, it "depends". I have the 2808 and 3808 and run all the HDMI through them and see no noticeable differences on my 1080p TV (with scaling turned 'on' and everything I do have running into the receiver is HDMI except a PS2)

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post #2261 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 12:57 PM
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yes, of course you are correct in that "it depends" is really the best answer. I just try to caution people who have unrealistic expectations due to the marketing of "1080p upscaling!!! WOW!!!" in modern AVR's.

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post #2262 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 01:05 PM
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Thank you guys! I figured that was the case. I thik I'll just let the display take care of things then.

One other quick question: I think I'm between the 2808, the 889 and the 789. If you had to choose one, which one would you choose? I plan to connect, XBox 360, PS3 and cable box to the AVR via HDMI.

Thanks....

BTW...this site kicks A.
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post #2263 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

yes, of course you are correct in that "it depends" is really the best answer. I just try to caution people who have unrealistic expectations due to the marketing of "1080p upscaling!!! WOW!!!" in modern AVR's.

True - it can get VERY confusing. For example if I look at my TiVOHD i can set the resolution from native to 1080i, and then i can set the Denon to upscale or not, and then it hits my TV. With some sources in 480p, 720, etc -it can easily get confusing. Kudos on your site BTW. Nicely done.
I'm also someone who's helped and continues to help out 'others' when it comes to figuring out how to set up what, what to buy when it comes to electronics and computers. I keep thinking of starting my own side consultant- business!

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post #2264 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsloan26 View Post

One other quick question: I think I'm between the 2808, the 889 and the 789. If you had to choose one, which one would you choose? I plan to connect, XBox 360, PS3 and cable box to the AVR via HDMI.

well the 2808 is last year's higher-end model, but it has only 2 HDMI, so would probably connect your cable box with component and send it to the TV over HDMI if you got the 2808.

the newer '09 models have more HDMI inputs but more importantly the new Audyssey features, Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.

It's really a question of, would you rather have the higher-end features of last year's 2808 (which include pre-outs for adding external amplifiers, more inputs/outputs, more sophisticated multizone capabilities, and higher-end processing especially Audyssey MultEQ XT room correction as opposed to regular MultEQ).....

or would you rather have more HDMI inputs and the new Audyssey features on the 889?

You should spend some time reading this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1049185

it discusses a lot of the tradeoffs between a higher end '08 model vs. a new but lower-end '09 model. Even though it's about 1909 vs. 988, it's still very relevant for the 889.

My suggestion is that if you won't use the sophisticated multizone capabilities and pre-outs of the 2808, and if you aren't a super-critical 2-channel music listener, go for the newer AVR 889 model.

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post #2265 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

But, in all fairness, it "depends". I have the 2808 and 3808 and run all the HDMI through them and see no noticeable differences on my 1080p TV (with scaling turned 'on' and everything I do have running into the receiver is HDMI except a PS2)

Keeping in mind of course that with the 2808 there is NO upscaling when using HDMI from the component into the 2808.

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post #2266 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The 2808ci is an awesome receiver with many happy owners, good choice. Klipsch makes very efficient speakers and any modern receiver should have zero trouble powering them to ridiculous volumes.

See the link in my signature for a comprehensive setup guide and FAQ for your Denon. After you have taken the time to read through it and the links, as well as the AVR FAQ at the top of this forum, feel free to email me or post here if you have any specific follow-up questions.

They key to awesome sound is properly running the Audyssey set-up! Follow the step-by-step guide linked at my website and the first post of the "official" audyssey thread.


Hello Batpig,

Thanks for your response. I will be checking out the info on your website. I appreciate the assistance.

Eric
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Thank you for your time. I will likely go with either the 789 or 889 then. I'm not much of an audiophile......but I will read through the thread you provided.....maybe I'll learn something I didn't know!

Thanks!!!!
D
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post #2268 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsloan26 View Post

Thank you for your time. I will likely go with either the 789 or 889 then. I'm not much of an audiophile......but I will read through the thread you provided.....maybe I'll learn something I didn't know!

Thanks!!!!
D

If you are looking at the 889, you should also check out it's counterpart, the 2309, as unlike the 889, the 2309 can be updated at home (vice having to go to an authorized service center) via RS-232 port should a fix be required (like the current Ipod Video firmware fix).

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post #2269 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

let's do some troubleshooting - first, standardize the source signal to eliminate that as a variable. grab a music CD, and try playing it from all three possible sources (PS3, CDP, and 360). Put the Denon in the same surround mode for all three, and see if the CD sounds the same from all three.

1. I will try that! I am at work right now but when I get home should I try that before I run the Audyssey auto set up?

2. AND do I run the Audyssey auto set up each time I switch sources. In other words do I need to run the Audyssey when I play a CD and then again when I play blu ray on PS3 and again with the 360? Or do I just need to follow your link one time and its good for all sources.

3. I don't have a tripod does that really matter?

THX A LOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #2270 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blsitter7 View Post

1. I will try that! I am at work right now but when I get home should I try that before I run the Audyssey auto set up?

2. AND do I run the Audyssey auto set up each time I switch sources. In other words do I need to run the Audyssey when I play a CD and then again when I play blu ray on PS3 and again with the 360? Or do I just need to follow your link one time and its good for all sources.

3. I don't have a tripod does that really matter?

THX A LOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The AUTO SETUP should be run first, before anything else after connecting all speakers. It is ideally run only one time (as long as the results appear good, ie channel levels not at either low or high maximum +/- 12db) and is good for all sources, generally requiring only moderate channel level tweaking to suit your personal preferences. Ideally a tripod should be used and can generally be purchased for around $10-$15. If you've got a small lamp, you can unscrew the lampshade and screw the mic and use it as long as it will remain steady on your couch.

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post #2271 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The AUTO SETUP should be run first, before anything else after connecting all speakers. It is ideally run only one time (as long as the results appear good, ie channel levels not at either low or high maximum +/- 12db) and is good for all sources, generally requiring only moderate channel level tweaking to suit your personal preferences. Ideally a tripod should be used and can generally be purchased for around $10-$15. If you've got a small lamp, you can unscrew the lampshade and screw the mic and use it as long as it will remain steady on your couch.

I will run the Audyssey Auto Set up and see how that works. I don't have the manual in front of me (at work) but how loud do you set the master volume when running the set up? How loud do you set the Subwoofer to get the initial setting.

THX again!
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post #2272 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 03:13 PM
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those questions are all covered in the FAQ's and set-up guides you have been linked to

Auto Setup ignores any setting in the receiver when running, it doesn't matter what volume you have it on or anything like that.

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post #2273 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

those questions are all covered in the FAQ's and set-up guides you have been linked to

Auto Setup ignores any setting in the receiver when running, it doesn't matter what volume you have it on or anything like that.

Thx again! I will let you know how it goes!!
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post #2274 of 3845 Old 01-14-2009, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The AUTO SETUP should be run first, before anything else after connecting all speakers. It is ideally run only one time (as long as the results appear good, ie channel levels not at either low or high maximum +/- 12db) and is good for all sources, generally requiring only moderate channel level tweaking to suit your personal preferences. Ideally a tripod should be used and can generally be purchased for around $10-$15. If you've got a small lamp, you can unscrew the lampshade and screw the mic and use it as long as it will remain steady on your couch.

I went out a got a tripod during lunch!! I will let you know how it goes! Thx for the ADvice!!!!!!!!
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post #2275 of 3845 Old 01-15-2009, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Ideally a tripod should be used and can generally be purchased for around $10-$15. If you've got a small lamp, you can unscrew the lampshade and screw the mic and use it as long as it will remain steady on your couch.

Or if you're like me just recline that bad boy all the way back and set the mic right where your head rests...

In over my head.
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post #2276 of 3845 Old 01-15-2009, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blsitter7 View Post

I went out a got a tripod during lunch!! I will let you know how it goes! Thx for the ADvice!!!!!!!!

blsitter, good man!! I think you are in for a real treat in SQ once you get that tripod/mic thing goin' and you hear what Audyssey does! With all the weird results you are getting from those manual settings, perhaps you should do a microprocessor reset before running Autosetup, it may save you trouble later.


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Or if you're like me just recline that bad boy all the way back and set the mic right where your head rests...

You should know better in Mic-ronesia! Here we have a strict camera tripod policy (or, per jd, the ever-popular "lampshade mount") .

Seriously, though, setting the mic on any surface increases unwanted acoustic reflections which will adversely affect results.

On the other hand a less than optimal autosetup run is very often better than no run at all.

It amazes me when someone has spent the $ on one of these advanced units and doesn't run Audyssey.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #2277 of 3845 Old 01-15-2009, 07:49 AM
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Hello,

Can you run two (2) subwoofers off of the 2808 using a Y-connector coming off the back of the 2808 and then out to the subs? If yes, can Audyssey account for the use of both subwoofers when setting up the system? Please let me know.

Thanks for the help.

Eric
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post #2278 of 3845 Old 01-15-2009, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

blsitter, good man!! I think you are in for a real treat in SQ once you get that tripod/mic thing goin' and you hear what Audyssey does! With all the weird results you are getting from those manual settings, perhaps you should do a microprocessor reset before running Autosetup, it may save you trouble later.



You should know better in Mic-ronesia! Here we have a strict camera tripod policy (or, per jd, the ever-popular "lampshade mount") .

Seriously, though, setting the mic on any surface increases unwanted acoustic reflections which will adversely affect results.

On the other hand a less than optimal autosetup run is very often better than no run at all.

It amazes me when someone has spent the $ on one of these advanced units and doesn't run Audyssey.

Tripod? I don't need no stinking tripod. I scrunched down and put it on my head for the primary setting and held it for the next two and then staged 2 boxes for the correct height for all the other points and it measured the distance etc perfectly. The tripod is 'nice' (and yes, the lamp idea is an oldie trick also used for cameras!) but holding it will work too - just don't move.

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post #2279 of 3845 Old 01-15-2009, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ELJ427Shelby View Post

Can you run two (2) subwoofers off of the 2808 using a Y-connector coming off the back of the 2808 and then out to the subs? If yes, can Audyssey account for the use of both subwoofers when setting up the system? Please let me know.

Hi Eric,

Technically, it should work. However, Audyssey does have some issues with dual sub setups, and positioning is crucial so the subs don't end up interfering with each other and killing the sound.

I'm no expert on this kind of thing, however. I suggest you spend an hour searching for terms like "Denon dual sub" on the official Audyssey thread, and read everything you can on there about what Chris (username "audyssey", he actually works for Audyssey) has to say on the topic.

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post #2280 of 3845 Old 01-15-2009, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Hi Eric,

Technically, it should work. However, Audyssey does have some issues with dual sub setups, and positioning is crucial so the subs don't end up interfering with each other and killing the sound.

I'm no expert on this kind of thing, however. I suggest you spend an hour searching for terms like "Denon dual sub" on the official Audyssey thread, and read everything you can on there about what Chris (username "audyssey", he actually works for Audyssey) has to say on the topic.

Hello Batpig,

Thanks for the response. I will take your advice and do some research on the Audyssey thread and see what I can find out.

Best regards,
Eric
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Denon Avr 2808ci Receiver , Denon Avr 988 7 1 Channel Multizone Home Theater Receiver
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