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post #271 of 1049 Old 05-31-2008, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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An AVS posting indicates a dealer contacted Cary Audio and the 11a is 2 weeks away from production manufacturing commencing.

Given the communication issues in the past from Cary I will await a more formal notice from the vendor itself...
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post #272 of 1049 Old 06-03-2008, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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A first look piece on the Classe SSP-800. Not much new: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/p...eamp-processor
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post #273 of 1049 Old 06-03-2008, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

A first look piece on the Classe SSP-800. Not much new: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/p...eamp-processor

Except for the misspellings.

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post #274 of 1049 Old 06-05-2008, 11:11 AM
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I know what people generally think about rumours but..... The Big Mac are going to have HDMI 1.3A HBR updated version of their two pre pros by the end of the year (Dual TI DSP).

I really want to know what Meridian are cooking up.
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post #275 of 1049 Old 06-05-2008, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post

I know what people generally think about rumours but..... The Big Mac are going to have HDMI 1.3A HBR updated version of their two pre pros by the end of the year (Dual TI DSP).

I really want to know what Meridian are cooking up.

Just so that we are on the same page -- are you suggesting a rumor that McIntosh will FINALLY have replacements for their MX120 and MX136 by the end of the year?? (Their AP1000 audio processor is MORE than a year behind schedule is why I ask.)

I wanted to make sure that we were thinking of the same "Big Mac."

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post #276 of 1049 Old 06-05-2008, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSp View Post

Just so that we are on the same page -- are you suggesting a rumor that McIntosh will FINALLY have replacements for their MX120 and MX136 by the end of the year?? (Their AP1000 audio processor is MORE than a year behind schedule is why I ask.)

I wanted to make sure that we were thinking of the same "Big Mac."

MikeSp

Yes, I guess I was talking about comparatively small Macs
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post #277 of 1049 Old 06-06-2008, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

A first look piece on the Classe SSP-800. Not much new: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/p...eamp-processor

Wow. Classe makes some great gear, but an $8000 pre/pro that has few analog inputs, no auto room correction (because every room is different? I thought that was the whole reason for these systems!), and no video processing. Not sure where they're going with this unit. The dearth of analog inputs surprises me for Classe stuff, but seems to be the trend.

So, this unit must be for those customers who have only a few legacy analog source components (but not a turntable, or at least if they do they also have a separate high quality phono preamp), a high quality video processor, a "tuned" and tweaked listening space, and just need a digital switcher and processor. I suppose it make sense for a very small niche of very high end HTs. Or maybe it's targeted for mainly music systems.

Am I missing something?

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post #278 of 1049 Old 06-06-2008, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingProf View Post

Wow. Classe makes some great gear, but an $8000 pre/pro that has few analog inputs, no auto room correction (because every room is different? I thought that was the whole reason for these systems!), and no video processing. Not sure where they're going with this unit. The dearth of analog inputs surprises me for Classe stuff, but seems to be the trend.

So, this unit must be for those customers who have only a few legacy analog source components (but not a turntable, or at least if they do they also have a separate high quality phono preamp), a high quality video processor, a "tuned" and tweaked listening space, and just need a digital switcher and processor. I suppose it make sense for a very small niche of very high end HTs. Or maybe it's targeted for mainly music systems.

Am I missing something?

It meets my requirement quite well on paper. I already have a Lumagen VP (Gamma correction is superb for my JVC RS1), no record player, only three analogue source (LD, Wii and IPod) and no turn table. I would hope to get excellent SQ and a very low noise floor from the Classe.

The lack of a VP is a far smaller issue than people make out. It amazes me how many people who have a high quality display with excellent VP inbuilt insist on using inferior pre-pro/ receiver video processing. Most people have a VP in their Display, Receiver and Disc player, a wasteful tripling up.
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post #279 of 1049 Old 06-06-2008, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post

The lack of a VP is a far smaller issue than people make out. It amazes me how many people who have a high quality display with excellent VP inbuilt insist on using inferior pre-pro/ receiver video processing. Most people have a VP in their Display, Receiver and Disc player, a wasteful tripling up.

I'd been wondering the same thing. Not being as familiar with the latest gear as others, I thought perhaps I was not understanding the full picture. I'm glad someone else is also asking the same question. But perhaps it is an issue for someone with an older display? On the other hand, judging from the number of folks wanting the latest Pioneers and Panasonics, it would seem a good number of them could do without a separate unit that did the VP.
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post #280 of 1049 Old 06-06-2008, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post

Most people have a VP in their Display, Receiver and Disc player, a wasteful tripling up.

Agreed. It would be nice if the industry could decide where the VP should take place, but unlikely to happen. Of course, with a separate VP, in some instances folks are quadrupling up.

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post #281 of 1049 Old 06-06-2008, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingProf View Post

Wow. Classe makes some great gear, but an $8000 pre/pro that has few analog inputs, no auto room correction (because every room is different? I thought that was the whole reason for these systems!), and no video processing. Not sure where they're going with this unit. The dearth of analog inputs surprises me for Classe stuff, but seems to be the trend.

It was a design decision to push the digital envelope with this product. They are working on a new pre-amplifier that will also push digital but remain more compatible with analog sources like vinyl.

Quote:


So, this unit must be for those customers who have only a few legacy analog source components (but not a turntable, or at least if they do they also have a separate high quality phono preamp), a high quality video processor, a "tuned" and tweaked listening space, and just need a digital switcher and processor. I suppose it make sense for a very small niche of very high end HTs. Or maybe it's targeted for mainly music systems.

Very small niche? I'm curious how one could quantify niche in this market. As of today they have over 200 on back order, half of which are from the US, and it hasn't been released yet. To me it would seem to indicate a leveling of the esoteric wall.

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Maybe, yes.

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post #282 of 1049 Old 06-07-2008, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Good points are being made on the SSP-800. I think it makes sense to pursue them in the Classe thread instead of here. I have followed up there: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post14033522
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post #283 of 1049 Old 06-07-2008, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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RebelMan updated his SSP-800 tracking thread with more technical details from Classe. He linked to it above, but I wanted to call it out more explicitly. Its definately worth the read if you want to know more about the SSP-800: http://htguide.com/forum/showthread....1&page=1&pp=50. A summary of the update is found at http://htguide.com/forum/showthread....1&page=9&pp=50

The AVS Forum thread is http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=980916
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post #284 of 1049 Old 06-08-2008, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelMan View Post

Very small niche? I'm curious how one could quantify niche in this market. As of today they have over 200 on back order, half of which are from the US, and it hasn't been released yet. To me it would seem to indicate a leveling of the esoteric wall.

If the 200 number is accurate, to me, it would seem that 200 units is a niche (likely <$800k revenue to mfr.)

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post #285 of 1049 Old 06-08-2008, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MarketingProf View Post

If the 200 number is accurate, to me, it would seem that 200 units is a niche (likely <$800k revenue to mfr.)

Compared to what? Let's break down your original statement...

So, this unit must be for those customers who have only a few legacy analog source components (but not a turntable, or at least if they do they also have a separate high quality phono preamp),... Digital albums out sold analog albums 332:1 in 2007. Niche?

A high quality video processor,... What consumer electronic video device now days doesn't come with some form of video processing? Niche?

A "tuned" and tweaked listening space,... It would ideal but not always practical. PEQ lends itself well to those locked into one situation or the other. Niche?

I suppose it make sense for a very small niche of very high end HTs. Or maybe it's targeted for mainly music systems. It makes sense to anyone interested in high quality sound reproduction. Niche?

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post #286 of 1049 Old 06-08-2008, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingProf View Post

If the 200 number is accurate, to me, it would seem that 200 units is a niche (likely <$800k revenue to mfr.)

Would it not be fair to say that for HT, anything in the > $8k range is niche?

If I recall my marketing, as your name implies Professor, of the 4 P's, Price is one of them.

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post #287 of 1049 Old 06-08-2008, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, less subtle hint in defense of this thread's SNR.

Can we please take the SSP-800 pros and cons, niche and non-niche discussion to the Classe thread?

The SSP-800 discussion is valuable, but it is off topic for this thread and a thread exists for the purpose.

Thanks.
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post #288 of 1049 Old 06-09-2008, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Ok, less subtle hint in defense of this thread's SNR.

Can we please take the SSP-800 pros and cons, niche and non-niche discussion to the Classe thread?

The SSP-800 discussion is valuable, but it is off topic for this thread and a thread exists for the purpose.

Thanks.

Thanks Eric. Moved.

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post #289 of 1049 Old 06-10-2008, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Outlaw has (finally) announced plans for a HDM HBR capable processor to succeed the Outlaw Model 990, and in a very interesting move, has abandoned the Cirrus Logic DSP platform due to shipping delays.

Quote:


The Next Generation Outlaw Processor

As many of you know, delays in the delivery of key DSP chips from Cirrus Logic have slowed development of products not only from the Outlaws, but also for many other companies as well. Because of this situation, we've changed the product road map for our newest flagship processor. We are now well along the path for a new surround processor that is based on dual Texas Instruments DSP chips, along with other key high-end components. We estimate shipments of this new processor to begin late this fall or in early winter.

By switching hardware platforms, we have given the new product the robust computing power required to include a revolutionary new technology. When it is available, we expect the Model 990's replacement to retail for at least $1,400, twice the new price for the Model 990.

Thanks to rydenfan for pointing this announcement out.
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post #290 of 1049 Old 06-10-2008, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Simaudio Moon CP-8 specifications are now available from the SimAudio web site.

Summary:
  • HBR support
  • Faroudja DCDi video processing
  • 2 in, 1 out HDMI
  • Audyssey Mult EQ XT room correction
  • 9 balanced outs (7.2)
  • Processed SNR: 2 chan DSD @ > 113dB. analog in @ > 102 dB (EIAJ, A weighted)
  • Preamp SNR: 102 dB

MSRP expected as $18K with release anticipated for August/September 2008.
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post #291 of 1049 Old 06-10-2008, 04:53 PM
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Quote:


The Next Generation Outlaw Processor based on dual Texas Instruments DSP chips...

"By switching hardware platforms, we have given the new product the robust computing power required to include a revolutionary new technology."

My guess is that this "revolutionary new technology" will be roomEQ of some sort.

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post #292 of 1049 Old 06-10-2008, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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A thread on DigitalHome.ca from back in April makes some interesting claims that I have not yet been able to cross-reference or otherwise confirm (from user "Shear Force"):
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As many of you know, Etonics (SN parent company) discovered while manufacturing Onkyo and Denon AVRs that the 3 audio chip design available at that time compromised audio quality.

So most higher end mfgs decided to hold new models in R&D until better chip designs were available. The Cirrus 49700 chipset is finally in production which means that there should be enough volume for the following to unveil their next generation prepros at CEDIA with immediate shipments to follow:

These companies include:
Arcam
Anthem
Krell

NAD and B&K will be swapping out boards in their T175 & 707 prepros for existing customers.

Sherwood Newcastle P972 & Outlaw (rumoured to be SN clone) will not be using this chip - although the SN R872 will. They will be using 2 two new TI Aureus chips due to the intensive processing power required with Trinnov.

All of the above will be using the new HDMI 1.3 chipset which will eliminate most hardware incompatibilities.

I presume the Krell reference is the S-1000 HDMI upgrade. I have heard rumblings (more like loud wishes) about a D2 successor, but nothing concrete. Arcam is completely new.

If correct about the Outlaw as a rebadged SN, then Kal's guess is right and it will be Trinnov. That would be a development indeed.
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post #293 of 1049 Old 06-11-2008, 08:13 AM
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What exactly does the Gefen do? Can someone connect a Ps3 to it and get MPCM? Anyone try using it?

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post #294 of 1049 Old 06-11-2008, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Emotiva provided a status update on their development efforts and availability of the Cirrus Logic DSP in a forum posting:
Quote:


just to give an update here, the chips are being manufactured now. If you want to do a processor that is stable up to 96K, then you can use one chip and they just finished the software for it. However, our design uses 2) of the dual core processors which will be able to do post processing at any input and they are finalizing the code for the dual chip set up now. When will it be tested and released? I do not know, but we are still hopeful of an end of summer early fall release and that is as close as I can guess at this point.

An interesting point here is the claim of limitations of a single 2 core chip and Emotiva use of two 2-core chips.
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post #295 of 1049 Old 06-11-2008, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

What exactly does the Gefen do? Can someone connect a Ps3 to it and get MPCM? Anyone try using it?

As I understand it, it is a stripped down 8 channel 20 wpc AVR, or perhaps an enhanced HDMI SSP (depending on how you look at it) that can decode MPCM or any of the standard lossy formats to analog. So yes, you could plug a PS3 into and have it handle MPCM.

The web page says it is available and orderable, but it was not shipping last I heard.
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post #296 of 1049 Old 06-12-2008, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

I have heard rumblings (more like loud wishes) about a D2 successor, but nothing concrete.

I've heard from my dealer on two occasions, from two separate salespersons, that something from Anthem is in the works.

One simply described it as the next generation of Anthem, with HDMI 1.3 and new codecs.

Several weeks later, the next person went as far as saying it was an AVM50v2 and D2v2. They also said this info came directly from their Anthem rep.

While this is good news, I was sorta hoping for a new design of the AVM line. Cosmetics are a bit dated in my mind... I was also hoping for a more advanced DAC solution... but I guess time will tell.

Oh ya, and offer me something without the video processing, I don't need it... nor do I want to pay for it.
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post #297 of 1049 Old 06-13-2008, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Morris View Post

I've heard from my dealer on two occasions, from two separate salespersons, that something from Anthem is in the works.

One simply described it as the next generation of Anthem, with HDMI 1.3 and new codecs.

Several weeks later, the next person went as far as saying it was an AVM50v2 and D2v2. They also said this info came directly from their Anthem rep.

While this is good news, I was sorta hoping for a new design of the AVM line. Cosmetics are a bit dated in my mind... I was also hoping for a more advanced DAC solution... but I guess time will tell.

Oh ya, and offer me something without the video processing, I don't need it... nor do I want to pay for it.

Sounds like the Classe, Cary or Audiolab might be a better match for you.
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post #298 of 1049 Old 06-13-2008, 09:01 AM
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My problem with the video processing of the D2 is that it doesn't do everything that many new digital displays require. Ie: those that don't offer an extensive colour management systems to adjust primaries for example, as most digital display primaries are completely out of whack such as the RS1/RS2 rendering them (IMHO) useless as a critical display device. Something like a Lumagen Radiance will offer this and also offer un-equalled scaling capabilities along with gamma curve adjustment.

With more and more 1080p native displays in existance today that also offer 24fps input, people are caring less and less about good scaling as they'll simply feed their displays directly from the source device. Yes, you still need to scale standard def content, but SD looks so crappy to begin with that the internal scalers on most digital displays is (IMHO) adequate. Trying to do absolutely perfect scaling of older 480i/p content is sort of like putting high octain gas into a Yugo. What's the point?

I think some people are likely torn between something like the Integra DTC-9.8 ($1699) SSP coupled with the Radiance ($4K) video processor vs. buying a D2. There are pro's and cons to each of course. Depends on your needs I suppose.

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post #299 of 1049 Old 06-15-2008, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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This posting suggests pre-production models are available to be seen, and this posting suggests B&K will ship in July.

But that and a couple of bucks these days get you coffee, so don't hold your breath. Remember, the AVS rumour mill initially suggested a release date of April for the Ref 70.

B&K should have an easier time of hitting this release date as it is dependant on the new Cirrus Logic HDM capable chipset and does not provide HDM decode, just PCM.

But if I didn't report rumours this thread would be darn quiet right now.
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post #300 of 1049 Old 06-16-2008, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Outlaw has (finally) announced plans for a HDM HBR capable processor to succeed the Outlaw Model 990, and in a very interesting move, has abandoned the Cirrus Logic DSP platform due to shipping delays.

Outlaw has (finally) announced plans for a HDM HBR capable processor to succeed the Outlaw Model 990, and in a very interesting move, has abandoned the Cirrus Logic DSP platform due to shipping delays.

Quote:
The Next Generation Outlaw Processor

As many of you know, delays in the delivery of key DSP chips from Cirrus Logic have slowed development of products not only from the Outlaws, but also for many other companies as well. Because of this situation, we've changed the product road map for our newest flagship processor. We are now well along the path for a new surround processor that is based on dual Texas Instruments DSP chips, along with other key high-end components. We estimate shipments of this new processor to begin late this fall or in early winter.

By switching hardware platforms, we have given the new product the robust computing power required to include a revolutionary new technology. When it is available, we expect the Model 990's replacement to retail for at least $1,400, twice the new price for the Model 990.

Thanks to rydenfan for pointing this announcement out.

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I'm an Outlaw customer, and their new processor would certainly be of interest. But the goal post seems to be moving down the field everytime I turn around, and now it's "early winter." - Maybe.

I've spent a substantial amount of time dutifully following this and other similar discussions for several months, and perhaps someone could provide some suggestions. - One of my primary interests is getting a pre/pro or ATM with sufficiently good audio to permit me to use it as an all-in-one audio/video preamp and processor, replacing my present preamp, and using the new unit for both HDTV, stereo and mult-channel audio, and also processing SACD (probably received in PCM rather than DSD). I would also like to be able to use it for video, incl. processing lossless audio codecs when they are available on more Blu-ray players. Perhaps the main difference between my wish list and others I see discussed on the forum is that I have a fairly extensive set of speakers (Maggies), and I'm more concerned with audio quality. -

I have been considering the Integra 885 or Onkyo 885, or one of the Onkyo AVRs, and also the NAD T175, which seems to have a more sophisticated audio section (with an additional Audessey response curve) but less versatile processing. - Does anyone have suggestions on any of these options, or should I plan on waiting another six to eight months for some of the new models, such as the Outlaw, or the S/N, to be released? Or should I simply give up the idea of getting a single processor combining good audio and video processing?

Thanks,
Jim Cate
Jim Cate is offline  
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