SSP & Pre/Pros that support HDMI Audio MPCM - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1049 Old 11-06-2008, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks I will update that.

Sort order is HDMI version supported (1.1. or 1.3) then price within HDMI version. I will note that in post #1.

I haven't made any recent updates because its been pretty quiet since CEDIA 08.
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post #542 of 1049 Old 11-07-2008, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Sort order is HDMI version supported (1.1. or 1.3) then price within HDMI version. I will note that in post #1.

Got it, thanks!

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I haven't made any recent updates because its been pretty quiet since CEDIA 08.

All is definitely quiet on the western front. I am curious how this product category will be affected by the economy. HDMI was apparently challenging enough, before a slowdown happened...

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post #543 of 1049 Old 11-10-2008, 08:11 AM
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Argh! looks like my Fosgate decided to blow up at the worst time.
Now I've got to shop for a new SSP, and if it had JUST waited another couple
months it looks like I'd have a much better selection to choose from....
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post #544 of 1049 Old 11-13-2008, 11:43 PM
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The Ref 70 thread is quoting B&K as saying DSD over HDMI works using debug interface now and they hope to have it fully functional in a new firmware release in the next 1-2 months.

Also, I know none of the current prepros support it but could CEC flow rate control (AKA HATS & PQLS) be added to the table. I believe it is at least a note worthy feature.
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post #545 of 1049 Old 11-14-2008, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post

Also, I know none of the current prepros support it but could CEC flow rate control (AKA HATS & PQLS) be added to the table. I believe it is at least a note worthy feature.

Do you know if HDMI CEC can be used to improve HDMI jitter (a la HATS and PQLS for i.Link)? Is it automatically part of CEC? Or it's optional, like so many things for HDMI?

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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post #546 of 1049 Old 11-15-2008, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown View Post

Do you know if HDMI CEC can be used to improve HDMI jitter (a la HATS and PQLS for i.Link)? Is it automatically part of CEC? Or it's optional, like so many things for HDMI?

Its an optional part of CEC spec. PQLS and HATS over HDMI use the HDMI CEC method (Just as with ILink many manufacturers are rebranding the same feature). Also, just like ILink the various implementations of flow rate control are likely compatible but some manufacturers may deliberately restrict operation to their own products.
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post #547 of 1049 Old 11-17-2008, 05:26 PM
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Thanks !! I'm hoping that as companies implement flow control with HDMI, they advertise it as well.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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post #548 of 1049 Old 11-18-2008, 08:41 AM
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Very nice work. Thanks.

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post #549 of 1049 Old 11-18-2008, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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This thread is one year old! Can't believe I am still maintaining it
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post #550 of 1049 Old 11-18-2008, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, its finally happened. People have received actual waybill numbers for their shipped Cary 11a, so I am declaring it shipping. Apparently the second batch is about to go out the door too.

More updates in the never ending Cary 11 thread.

I have updated post #1.
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post #551 of 1049 Old 11-19-2008, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Well, its finally happened. People have received actual waybill numbers for their shipped Cary 11a, so I am declaring it shipping. Apparently the second batch is about to go out the door too.

More updates in the never ending Cary 11 thread.

I have updated post #1.

Carry has cool products but pricey
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post #552 of 1049 Old 11-19-2008, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Carry has cool products but pricey

Compared to what?

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http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #553 of 1049 Old 11-21-2008, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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post #554 of 1049 Old 11-22-2008, 03:37 AM
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Thanks a bunch for the great work done in this thread, really ressourceful!

Not sure if this has been discussed already, but as I understand it not all processors are able to expand 5.1 PCM to 7.1 PCM, and some can't even do ANY kind of processing, small/large, delay etc, to PCM signals. Not sure if this applies to TrueHD and DTS-HD (as most manufacturers don't say much about it in the manuals!). Would it be possible to include some kind of info on this in the overview?

What other processing limitations is common in today's processors?

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post #555 of 1049 Old 11-22-2008, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Otto,

Glad you find it useful. I try to keep this thread for industry status updates and feature details rather than discussions of specific processors, to help ensure people find it valuable. The fact that this thread has been running a year with pretty high SNR is testament to the policy.

Since your questions are actually about how to read the table, I will answer

Your questions are mostly answered in the Codec, Surround Mode and Speaker X-over columns.

If a processor has DPLIIx or THX rather than DPLII in Surround Mode, generally speaking, it can do 5.1 to 6.1/7.1 expansion. The issue you allude to is when the SSP supports HBR in the Codec column, but CANNOT apply DPLIIx or THX to the HBR formats. To the best of my knowledge the only one in the shipping table that has this restriction is the Marantz AV8003. This occured because Marantz wanted to hit a market window of this year for an HBR capable SSP but before the full power HBR DSPs were widely available - so they compromised on the DSP and thus could not support certain features like surround modes on HBR. If you know of others for sure, let me know and I will add a notation to them as this is definitely something that I want to flag if it occurs in other SSPs. I didn't feel it worth noting for just one SSP, as it has been well discussed in the Marantz AV8003 thread.

I don't know of any SSP listed in the shipping table that has Codec=MPCM and Speaker X-over setting that is not applied to PCM. That would in effect mean no Bass Management for PCM. I don't know of any such exceptions on the shipping table, but to be truthful I am not sure I would have caught that as it would likely be only on the earliest PCM supporting SSPs (with older DSPs). Its tough to keep up on every SSP specific thread (I do try). If you know of any exceptions like this, let me know and I will find a way to note it in the table.
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post #556 of 1049 Old 11-23-2008, 01:29 PM
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Awesome thread Eric. Thanks for all your hard work. This has been an amazing resource.
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post #557 of 1049 Old 11-27-2008, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post


If a processor has DPLIIx or THX rather than DPLII in Surround Mode, generally speaking, it can do 5.1 to 6.1/7.1 expansion. The issue you allude to is when the SSP supports HBR in the Codec column, but CANNOT apply DPLIIx or THX to the HBR formats. To the best of my knowledge the only one in the shipping table that has this restriction is the Marantz AV8003. This occured because Marantz wanted to hit a market window of this year for an HBR capable SSP but before the full power HBR DSPs were widely available - so they compromised on the DSP and thus could not support certain features like surround modes on HBR. If you know of others for sure, let me know and I will add a notation to them as this is definitely something that I want to flag if it occurs in other SSPs. I didn't feel it worth noting for just one SSP, as it has been well discussed in the Marantz AV8003 thread.

Thanks for your response, and I agree with your decisions. I remembered having issues with Lexicon RV-5, but now that I think about it, the "issue" was no support for 7.1, which is covered in your table... I guess then that the issue is more about lack of information in the user manuals, rather than lack of actual features in the SSP's.

Keep it up!

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post #558 of 1049 Old 11-27-2008, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Parasound appears to be reconsidering the launch of the C3 in 1Q09. The slip is being discussed in the Parasound C3 thread and is attributed to technical and economic issues.

No official announcement as yet, but rumour suggests that there will be one shortly.
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post #559 of 1049 Old 11-27-2008, 05:28 PM
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Eric -

Just wanted to pass along my thanks to you for creating this thread. I recently purchased the Classe SSP-800, but if that doesn't work out, this thread will come in real handy. Too bad Parasound may be delaying their new processor. I'm very curious about that one. The new NAD Master Series too.
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post #560 of 1049 Old 11-27-2008, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, Tim. I would welcome an update on Classe's plans for their HDM DSP upgrade if you hear any as an owner.
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post #561 of 1049 Old 11-27-2008, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Thanks, Tim. I would welcome an update on Classe's plans for their HDM DSP upgrade if you hear any as an owner.

I'll let you know if I hear anything. I also hang out in the Classe thread on the HTGuide forum, and those guys always seem to up on the Classe news.

Which prepro do you currently own, and what are your planning on getting?
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post #562 of 1049 Old 11-30-2008, 02:49 PM
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Tim, how is the Classe SSP-800.......

I have been holding off on any Pre-Pro equipment for well before Eric even started this thread... I have been waiting for so long, it seems like forever... Lots of interesting products out there, but it seems all of them far just short of perfection in some point or another...
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post #563 of 1049 Old 11-30-2008, 11:44 PM - Thread Starter
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post #564 of 1049 Old 12-01-2008, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Tim, how is the Classe SSP-800.......

I have been holding off on any Pre-Pro equipment for well before Eric even started this thread... I have been waiting for so long, it seems like forever... Lots of interesting products out there, but it seems all of them far just short of perfection in some point or another...

I like it. I get the full essence of the musical intent of the artists, and it allows me to hear the space between the music in a way that is microdynamically enhanced.

Joking, joking. . . .

It's a good piece, though you may be asking the wrong guy. I don't hear big differences between amps and pres. But then who knows, if you took it away and replaced it with an Onkyo, I may change my mind about that.

I can say that I having been really enjoying my new set-up. How much of that is the processor, I dunno.

On one hand I wish the EQ was not manual, but in the end, with some work and lots of listening, I think I will like the results better than with an auto function. I've tried a few of those and they break as much as they fix.

Oh and the SSP-800 is still buggy. It doesn't always synch with the signal when you change inputs.
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post #565 of 1049 Old 12-01-2008, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

I like it. I get the full essence of the musical intent of the artists, and it allows me to hear the space between the music in a way that is microdynamically enhanced. It's a good piece, though you may be asking the wrong guy. I don't hear big differences between amps and pres. But then who knows, if you took it away and replaced it with an Onkyo, I may change my mind about that. I can say that I having been really enjoying my new set-up. How much of that is the processor, I dunno.

On one hand I wish the EQ was not manual, but in the end, with some work and lots of listening, I think I will like the results better than with an auto function. I've tried a few of those and they break as much as they fix.

Compared to the Onkyo there is no doubt especially for analogue and stereo for Digital such as DTS Master Audio or DD tru HD not as much


Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Oh and the SSP-800 is still buggy. It doesn't always synch with the signal when you change inputs.

What kind of bugs

That is why I am still sitting on the fence and waiting six months...
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post #566 of 1049 Old 12-01-2008, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post


What kind of bugs

That is why I am still sitting on the fence and waiting six months...

Sometimes, when you switch inputs, the digital signal is not read, so you have to switch to another input and back to the one you want to get it to work. Classe is aware of the issue and will address it in the next firmware update.
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post #567 of 1049 Old 12-02-2008, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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There was a posting with a bit more detail from Parasound in the Parasound C 3 thread:
Quote:


We'll be updating our website regarding these models over the next few weeks.

The development has fallen a bit behind as we added Audyssey late in the development cycle and this requires the DSP maker to port their code. We've also decided to wait until the economy is stronger. It's too expensive to introduce a new product when dealers are worrying about their survival and can't afford to buy new models.

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post #568 of 1049 Old 12-03-2008, 02:53 PM
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This post seems to say the Cary 11A supports raw DSD over HDMI:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=178

Forget that, I see the list has already been updated
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post #569 of 1049 Old 12-03-2008, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I am still trying to get an answer if it Surround processes HBR formats or not. The C11a thread has suggestions, but not conclusive results, that it does not. Still awaiting a definitive posting on this.
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post #570 of 1049 Old 12-04-2008, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I have now had two users and one dealer privately confirm to me that the Cary Cinema 11a does not permit surround modes (PLIIx) to be applied to the HDM bitstream formats (TrueHD, DTS HD MA). This means 5.1 HDM material cannot be matrixed out to 6.1/7.1.

This puts the 11a in the same category as the Marantz AV8003, which also has this restriction. The usual reason for this restriction is due to DSP limitations, although I didn't think that applied to the CS47900, so I am puzzled on this one.

I have added a new column to the table, which is "HBR Surr.", which tracks if the Surround modes can be applied to the HBR formats. At this time, only the Integra/Onkyo Pro and Denon can do this.
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