SSP & Pre/Pros that support HDMI Audio MPCM - Page 24 - AVS Forum
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Receivers, Amps, and Processors > SSP & Pre/Pros that support HDMI Audio MPCM
bubbawilly's Avatar bubbawilly 12:47 PM 03-19-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottHT View Post

I preordered the AVM50v on January 16, and according to my dealer missed the 1st wave of shipments by Anthem. Furthermore, my dealer was told yesterday the next wave will not be shipping for another 2-4 weeks. Has anyone else heard this?

I don't know about the AVM50v, but the D2v waiting list now starts in the middle of May. That's the wait list, so I assume actual delivery would be approximately 2 weeks later!

Boy, did Parasound make a huge blunder. They postponed their <$5K HBR processors due to the "economy;" meanwhile Anthem can't keep up with demand at >$7K.

Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau 01:11 PM 03-19-2009
Latest word we have from Anthem is that new D2v and AVM 50v orders are currently taking about 45 to 60 days to ship from when Anthem receives the order (i.e., when the dealer and his regional distributor actually place the order with Anthem: The day you buy at your dealer may not be the day Anthem actually receives the order). First come first served, except for warranty replacements which go to the head of the line. I don't believe any dealers have managed to keep either of these units in inventory. This is not very different from when the original D2 launched in 2006.

Due to the press of new unit orders, Anthem now says it doesn't expect D2 -> D2v upgrades or AVM 50 -> AMV 50v upgrades to be orderable until June. Final pricing on such upgrades also has still not been set.

Both the unit firmware for the D2v and AVM 50v and the software for Anthem Room Correction (ARC: For all ARC-capable Anthem processors, not just the D2v and AVM 50v) have just had significant updates released -- downloadable from Anthem's web site.

As always, discussion is taking place in the massive "tweaking" thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=678260

Interested folks should read the first post of that thread and then start scanning backwards from the end.
--Bob
DougWinsor's Avatar DougWinsor 01:35 PM 03-19-2009
Quote:


Boy, did Parasound make a huge blunder. They postponed their <$5K HBR processors due to the "economy;" meanwhile Anthem can't keep up with demand at >$7K.

I think parasound is using the "economy" as an excuse since they probably do not have the ability to produce a HDMI processor. Look how long it took meridian to come up with a non HDMI fix to integrate with their processors.
wse's Avatar wse 09:51 PM 03-19-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougWinsor View Post

I think parasound is using the "economy" as an excuse since they probably do not have the ability to produce a HDMI processor. Look how long it took meridian to come up with a non HDMI fix to integrate with their processors.

Yes like many others
bubbawilly's Avatar bubbawilly 12:32 PM 03-20-2009
I believe they are as capabable (technically) as the next guy when it comes to producing an HBR processor, and perhaps more capable than some. However, they grossly overestimated the impact of a terrible economy on demand for current technology processing.

I suspect that their (and other) legacy platforms slowed significantly once HBR processors (receivers mainly) started to hit the market 18 to 24 months ago. That reduction in revenue impacts R&D in any company, particularly small company. Combine the reduction of R&D budget with a dismal economic outlook and it's easy to see why they retrenched. It's really only in hindsight that their misstep appears potentially grave. I'm sure it looked like the right (perhaps only) thing to do at the time.
DougWinsor's Avatar DougWinsor 04:09 PM 03-20-2009
Quote:


I believe they are as capabable (technically) as the next guy when it comes to producing an HBR processor, and perhaps more capable than some. However, they grossly overestimated the impact of a terrible economy on demand for current technology processing.

No, that is just an excuse.

Quote:


I suspect that their (and other) legacy platforms slowed significantly once HBR processors (receivers mainly) started to hit the market 18 to 24 months ago. That reduction in revenue impacts R&D in any company, particularly small company. Combine the reduction of R&D budget with a dismal economic outlook and it's easy to see why they retrenched. It's really only in hindsight that their misstep appears potentially grave. I'm sure it looked like the right (perhaps only) thing to do at the time.

Because more people are not worried about name and pick a product on what it can and can't do. This leaves the high end far behind.
teachsac's Avatar teachsac 05:31 PM 03-20-2009
Let's step back and look at things from a different angle. Parasound is not the only manufacturer that is experiencing delays or been slow to put out product. Several things to take into account.

Separates are a very small portion of the A/V business in the U.S. Most of the receivers sold are what I call "disposable" (not in the sense they are junk), mass produced pieces that companies look for consumers to replace every couple of years. How many threads are there where people go from the 604 to 605 to 606 and are waiting for the 606, or gone from the 3800 to 3801 to 3803 to 3806 to 3808 and are waiting for the 3810? Processors are priced higher and are meant to last a while. I've had my MC12HD for 3 years now. My Paraound before that lasted for so long it's not even in their archived product's list anymore. How many are going to replace their 30K Krell every two years?

So that brings us to another problem. This every changing world of specs. SInce I got my Lexi, there have been two major and quite a few minor changes in HDMI, new audio codecs, video processing, etc. What is going to happen in say 6 months when HDMI announces they are coming with version 1.4 (at say CEDIA) to increase bandwidth for new codecs, 3D, and 4K. And by the way, it will have a new connector. What will happen then? Unless you are mass producing pieces like Denon, Onkyo/Integra, Yamaha, etc. it is impossible to keep up with. Processor companies would be more than happy to have external player decoding and video switching to handle everything. But we the small majority are demanding the lastest and greatest and want it now.

So let's look at the economy side of things for a minute. Let's say all of these manufacturers (Parasound, B&K, Krell, etc.) have done their R&D (albeit with a little final tweaking) and are ready to start producing. How many of the companies have gone under that they buy their components from? Now they need to look for new part manufacturers, negotiate new contracts, etc.

Just a different look at things.

S~
ehlarson's Avatar ehlarson 06:09 PM 03-20-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbawilly View Post

I believe they are as capabable (technically) as the next guy when it comes to producing an HBR processor, and perhaps more capable than some. However, they grossly overestimated the impact of a terrible economy on demand for current technology processing.

I suspect that their (and other) legacy platforms slowed significantly once HBR processors (receivers mainly) started to hit the market 18 to 24 months ago. That reduction in revenue impacts R&D in any company, particularly small company. Combine the reduction of R&D budget with a dismal economic outlook and it's easy to see why they retrenched. It's really only in hindsight that their misstep appears potentially grave. I'm sure it looked like the right (perhaps only) thing to do at the time.

I am sure this is correct. Small companies live and die with their cash flow. Just because there is a big market opportunity available doesn't mean that a company like Parasound has the financial wherewithal to develop a new product at a time when their sales are surely suffering from the overall bad economic conditions. It sounds like a prudent business decision to me.

It is too bad; I think they would have been a good competitor for my business.
teachsac's Avatar teachsac 06:16 PM 03-20-2009
Don't give up on them too soon. They just won't be out as soon as you, others, or I would like.

S~
danielo's Avatar danielo 09:55 AM 03-21-2009
I think the blaming the crisis is too easy, Most of them should have been in production by now. They waited to long and figured it would be easy to add a few dsp's and software that they could OEM. The design/testing of components should have started in 2006/2007 way before the crisis hit. We had for example a whole range of brands pick the wrong dsp combi that got delayed and delayed and delayed only to save a few bucks while others like denon just solved the problem by adding more dsp's of a avaiable model and start programming early.

The new formats and hdmi means a whole new format for most what was laking was them looking forward and starting soon. If they did they could have been selling in 2008 and 2009 instead of doing R&D.

Atleast 50% of the blame is just analog companies being late to the party and some of them will not make it as a result since they are now not crisis proof when needed the most.

Daniel.
ehlarson's Avatar ehlarson 09:05 PM 03-21-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post

Don't give up on them too soon. They just won't be out as soon as you, others, or I would like.

S~

Who knows what might happen when they get to market - for all we know they could go through a lengthy teething process like Onkyo, NAD, Cary, B&K etc. That might mean waiting year from today for a usable product from them.

I'm not going to wait that long - good players are starting to become available in numbers, and software availability is starting to become a lot better.
John Clark's Avatar John Clark 10:19 PM 03-25-2009
Has anyone heard anything at all recently about availability on the NAD Master Series M15 HD that was projected for February release? It's nearly April, and this one has me very interested. It seems to have everything necessary, with one caveat.

It's a shame that it doesn't offer balanced connections, as that will add a significant amount of cost for my installation.



John
Eric Carroll's Avatar Eric Carroll 09:25 AM 03-26-2009
To the best of my knowledge it is not yet shipping - certainly I have seen no announcements or listings. I too was disappointed it wasn't going to support balanced connections.
chester aldrid's Avatar chester aldrid 05:18 PM 03-26-2009
Eric, I have found an authorized dealer who is giving me a fantastic price for a 9.9 but it was opened in the store for a customer to look at. The dealer ordered it december should be wary about opened box and also the fact that it was ordered in december was thier a firware update around that time frame. Your help would be greatly aprciated
chester aldrid's Avatar chester aldrid 05:24 PM 03-26-2009
Sorry i think i posted the last post on the wrong thead sorry Eric.
gsr's Avatar gsr 05:24 PM 03-26-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by chester aldrid View Post

Eric, I have found an authorized dealer who is giving me a fantastic price for a 9.9 but it was opened in the store for a customer to look at. The dealer ordered it december should be wary about opened box and also the fact that it was ordered in december was thier a firware update around that time frame. Your help would be greatly aprciated

I think there's a question or 2 in there...

As far as open-box goes, make sure ALL accessories are present, make sure the cosmetics aren't a problem, and most of all make sure the warranty is the same as an unopened box would have. Other than that, it's purely up to you whether you want to save some $$$ or not.

As far as a firmware update is concerned - as long as the hardware didn't change it shouldn't be a problem. Just install the newer firmware and you should be just as up to date as someone who bought one with the newer firmware already installed.
Eric Carroll's Avatar Eric Carroll 05:25 PM 03-26-2009
I have sent you a PM, this is off topic for this thread.
Eric Carroll's Avatar Eric Carroll 08:54 PM 03-26-2009
Discussions in the NAD M15HD Surround Processor thread suggests that the M15HD has been delayed until April at the earliest.

It had been announced to ship in February 2009.
John Clark's Avatar John Clark 10:10 PM 03-26-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Discussions in the NAD M15HD Surround Processor thread suggests that the M15HD has been delayed until April at the earliest.

It had been announced to ship in February 2009.


Thanks for the update Eric. We could always hope that it has been delayed while they add balanced connections!


John
AngelEyes's Avatar AngelEyes 06:30 AM 03-30-2009
For thos interested in the Paraound Processors I suggest you email them and ask, the more interest they receive the more likely they are to move forward sooner rather than later.

I emailed them again today myself

sales@parasound.com

Adam
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 06:42 AM 03-30-2009
Keep in mind that Parasound (as well as many others) was working with Vinci Labs and Vinci Labs packed up shop a year ago, leaving a lot of companies halfway through the design process on a lot of things. It usually takes about 2 years from start to shipping for a high-end electronics product.

It also *always* takes an extra 3-6 months to ship a processor than the company sales guys think. Including NAD.

I wouldn't expect BD players to start dropping processing except at the most affordable price ranges. It's an extremely cheap thing to throw on a player. Once a feature is built in, in rarely ever goes away, just like a new government program. I've been trying to convince NAD to drop S-Video, even component, as it's utterly worthless these days, as are more than maybe 3 analog inputs. But it may take years before companies start doing that.
AngelEyes's Avatar AngelEyes 11:30 PM 03-30-2009
I had a nice chat with Richard Schram last night (President Parasound) which has re-ignited my excitement for the new processors.

No real new 'News' on their arrival but they are still aiming for 'Summer 09':

Quote:


There are some code issues with the Audyssey MultEQ XT and Cirrus Logic. That's getting worked out.

We've found from experience that the final 1-2% of refining our 7.1 products can take nearly as long as the first 98-99% of development.
Our recently discontinued Model 7100 is a case in point. We revised this model 56 times before releasing it to market. Imagine the financial drain of missing many months of sales while R&D expenses continued. The result was that the final 7100 which was produced was 100% identical to the first 7100 that was produced. There were no hardware changes, no firmware changes and no software updates during its entire product life. None. We think our customers deserve respect and aren't engaged as unwilling guinea pigs for a manufacturer's product development or desire to rush a product to market (some new 7.1 models from other brands are so buggy that their own engineers don't know what all the bugs are or how to fix the ones they do know about.

We're going to do this the right way and this makes it difficult to predict when our new 7.1 models will be ready. We're saying summer of 2009, but not saying in which hemisphere. You're always welcome to check back for further news and we'll post news on our website when we have something more concrete.

Thank you for your understanding and continued interest in Parasound.

The above is probably the part of the discussion most relevant to the forums but he came across as a really nice chap and it is refressing for a company president to take the time to talk with some random bloke who slings over an email.

Anyway I suppose the gist is that they are still working on things and we will see these products eventually.

Adam
Eric Carroll's Avatar Eric Carroll 11:58 PM 03-30-2009
Great update, thanks.
Eric Carroll's Avatar Eric Carroll 09:27 AM 03-31-2009
Some confusing news on the AVP 32.

I noticed on NuForce's web page that the (non-HDMI) AVP 17 is selling for barn burning MSRP of $637.50 via NuForce's Amazon online store. And to my shock, the (single) Canadian dealer MSRP is now C$699.

A Canuck Audio Mart post from the Canadian dealer suggests NuForce is clearing AVP-17 inventory to make way for the release of the AVP 32.

Based on the Audio Circile thread last we heard from NuForce the AVP 32 was dead...

So I am confused about its release status...
golfugh's Avatar golfugh 09:33 AM 03-31-2009
Eric
Last I heard the AVP-32 is dead. They are planning a multi-channel pre instead. Of course, this may have changed?? See page 3 of the AC thread you linked.
Eric Carroll's Avatar Eric Carroll 09:36 AM 03-31-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfugh View Post

Eric
Last I heard the AVP-32 is dead. They are planning a multi-channel pre instead. Of course, this may have changed?? See page 3 of the AC thread you linked.

I am confused. I clarified my post.
Eric Carroll's Avatar Eric Carroll 12:05 PM 03-31-2009
Its Alive! Well maybe.

I have word from a reputable source that NuForce has re-animated the AVP 32, but won't deliver until later in the year. With a big caveat that its alive "at least for now".
bubbawilly's Avatar bubbawilly 07:28 PM 03-31-2009
AngelEyes,
Thanks for sharing the info on Parasound. It is refreshing to to hear from an manufacturer who does not see consumers as beta testers in order to save on R&D.

My first choice would have been Halo, but I ordered the Anthem D2v when it became clear that Parasound was serious about scuttling their HBR processors for the year (if it really is summer, it will be laaaate summer ). Keep in mind the 3 to 6 month rule based on when a manufacturer states they will release a product. Actually, that rule can extend indefinitely depending on the manufacturer. Let's hope that Parasound falls in the short end of that range.
Eric Carroll's Avatar Eric Carroll 11:31 AM 04-11-2009
The Emotiva UMC-1 has announced a change to the estimate of its ship date. It is now estimated to be June 2009.

http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/umc-1
TommyV's Avatar TommyV 11:39 AM 04-11-2009
Nice Eric! Thanks for keeping this thread so up to date.
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