SSP & Pre/Pros that support HDMI Audio MPCM - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 1049 Old 01-11-2008, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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My mission in this thread is just to track & summarize the state of the SSP market - selecting a sonic winner is a whole different kettle of electrons.

But ssabripo is right, the SSP market is moving very slowly on the HDMI HBR front.

I was just happy to see something from Cary at CES 2008.

I note that Halcro has still not officially announced that the SSP-200 is shipping (vs doing SSP-100 upgrades) and has said nothing formal about the SSP-180 (at least that I can find). The SSP-200 and 180 are not up on their web site. I will be interested to see how the Vinci Labs issues work out for them.
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post #122 of 1049 Old 01-11-2008, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Well I have a Lumagen Radiance XD, so 2 HDMI inputs is just perfect for me. And as I understand it the price will be in a similar ballpark as the Cary 11 (higher of course but not outrageously so), so it is the best price/performance I have seen so far.

MSRP is $3500 but dealers will certainly discount for a decent discount.
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post #123 of 1049 Old 01-11-2008, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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So the MSRP is up $500 from the 11. That's not too bad at all considering the new decoders & HDMI.
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post #124 of 1049 Old 01-11-2008, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Switches are cheap.

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Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

You could aways use the Oppo switcher which is like $90 and that would give you another 3 inputs.
Cary has 6 inputs on the 11v but that would mean you have to buy their new video processor in addition to the 11a pre/pro.

the point is not whether or not switchers are cheap.....I already have the Zektor MAS7.1. The point is, if I'm "upgrading" it would be not only to support the new formats, but to make the connectivity easier as well.

oh well, will continue to keep an eye on the market....just dumbfounding that to this day the higher end companies have not gotten on with the new formats and connectivity. I have a feeling whoever comes out first with a decent processor at relatively adequate pricepoint, will make a good killing.
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post #125 of 1049 Old 01-11-2008, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

So the MSRP is up $500 from the 11. That's not too bad at all considering the new decoders & HDMI.

I agree. I think this is going to be a great piece. Cary seems to have listened to people saying that they did not need a full blown VP and that the 2 box system is out of their price range. Obviously, there are still issues that need to be resolved for current Cinema 11 owners, but that does not mean the 11a is not a home-run piece.
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post #126 of 1049 Old 01-11-2008, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

the point is not whether or not switchers are cheap.....I already have the Zektor MAS7.1. The point is, if I'm "upgrading" it would be not only to support the new formats, but to make the connectivity easier as well.

I understand but, of all the variables and needs, the number of HDMI inputs is the one you can compromise on because there is a solution. Lack of a CODEC or function is more difficult to fix.

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post #127 of 1049 Old 01-11-2008, 07:03 PM
 
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and the sonics are all Halcro.

That made me laugh.
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post #128 of 1049 Old 01-11-2008, 10:30 PM
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Eric,

What are your top three favorites base on my requirements?
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post #129 of 1049 Old 01-11-2008, 10:41 PM
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So Kal, do you think intrinsically superior sound quality can overcome lack of room correction?

Noah
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post #130 of 1049 Old 01-12-2008, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

So Kal, do you think intrinsically superior sound quality can overcome lack of room correction?

Now THAT is a good question. I'm surprised the modding companies are not offering mods on the analogue section of the 9.8. Seems a logical product to mod.
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post #131 of 1049 Old 01-12-2008, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

So Kal, do you think intrinsically superior sound quality can overcome lack of room correction?

Dunno. When I get the 11a, I will try to use its EQ manually with REW and see if it is satisfactory. I was so pissed off at the auto-EQ in the original C11 that I did not give the manual EQ a fair shot. Besides, I had the Audyssey SEQ to fall back on.

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post #132 of 1049 Old 01-12-2008, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

So Kal, do you think intrinsically superior sound quality can overcome lack of room correction?

IMO, it is possible, but very difficult. The untreated room can cause so many problems in the final sound to your ears, and good room EQ like Audyssey can save you a lot of efforts that would have been spent without a room EQ. Obviously, if you can do both, that'd be the best.
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post #133 of 1049 Old 01-12-2008, 11:57 AM
 
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Now THAT is a good question. I'm surprised the modding companies are not offering mods on the analogue section of the 9.8. Seems a logical product to mod.

I do not see the point of that since all high end processors already have a simple and weak analog section.
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post #134 of 1049 Old 01-12-2008, 12:04 PM
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There has been a report from a conversation at CES with a VP from Sherwood, that they would be producing a new prepro around August '08. It would be basically a R-972 without amps. Price unknown, but less than $1800.
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post #135 of 1049 Old 01-12-2008, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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post #136 of 1049 Old 01-12-2008, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluray_1080p View Post

Just pointing out the flaws of all processors.

Do it elsewhere or start your own thread.

Consider this a warning.

Stay on topic.

Thanks,

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post #137 of 1049 Old 01-12-2008, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluray_1080p View Post

I do not see the point of that since all high end processors already have a simple and weak analog section.

I don't believe this. I have a Lexicon MC-12, and I can tell you it's analog output section is on par with the best analog preamps that I've listened to. A fair time ago, I had a Sony TA-E9000ES that I also thought sounded pretty good. Just because a box has some "digital stuff" in it, doesn't automatically mean it won't sound as good as a pure analog unit. And if you *do* believe this, then there are a few pure 5.1 and 7.1 analog preamps out there that you can spend your money on.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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post #138 of 1049 Old 01-20-2008, 11:35 PM
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any news on the Primare SP32? any announcements/etc ?
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post #139 of 1049 Old 01-20-2008, 11:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Didn't hear anything from CES on Primare. They were rumoured to be showing but I saw no reports back.
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post #140 of 1049 Old 01-21-2008, 12:27 AM
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Didn't hear anything from CES on Primare. They were rumoured to be showing but I saw no reports back.

what a pity. that would have really made my day
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post #141 of 1049 Old 01-27-2008, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

this is really sad

so we are basically sitting here waiting for one of these higher end units to get their act together sometime in 2008, or go with the Onkyo/Integra option (hard to find, poor analog section), or do nothing???

ridiculous!


What's poor about the analog section? I'm about to purchase one, so I'd like to know.
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post #142 of 1049 Old 01-28-2008, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

What's poor about the analog section? I'm about to purchase one, so I'd like to know.

It's no Lexicon, but it's really good for the price you're paying for it.
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post #143 of 1049 Old 01-28-2008, 02:43 PM
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Is there a list (thread) of SSP and pre/pros that support bitstream decoding of the new HD audio codecs?

I've been reading some eye-opening claims that the bitstream output (pre/pro or receiver DD+ / TrueHD decoding) sounds much better than the onboard decoded MPCM from the HD DVD or Blu-Ray sources out there.

It makes sense that the decoding quality would be better in a decent processor as opposed to a sub $500 HD media player.

Is HDMI / MPCM support really sufficient for a 2008 pre/pro? Provided you have a quality external decoder, yes...but I'm not so sure that's what you will find in most HD players out there.
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post #144 of 1049 Old 01-28-2008, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Garand Jinn View Post

Is there a list (thread) of SSP and pre/pros that support bitstream decoding of the new HD audio codecs?

I've been reading some eye-opening claims that the bitstream output (pre/pro or receiver DD+ / TrueHD decoding) sounds much better than the onboard decoded MPCM from the HD DVD or Blu-Ray sources out there.

It makes sense that the decoding quality would be better in a decent processor as opposed to a sub $500 HD media player.

Is HDMI / MPCM support really sufficient for a 2008 pre/pro? Provided you have a quality external decoder, yes...but I'm not so sure that's what you will find in most HD players out there.

I wonder IF there should be any difference where the HD audio is decoded since it is lossless -- wouldn't it be the same if decoded in the player and outputted as LPCM vs. decoded in the processor? While this was true of DTS and DD, they were lossy and the quality of decoding did matter. I raise this question because I am trying to decide on the best way to decode HD audio before I spend the money.

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post #145 of 1049 Old 01-28-2008, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Garand Jinn View Post

Is there a list (thread) of SSP and pre/pros that support bitstream decoding of the new HD audio codecs?

Yes there is. You are posting in it.

See post #1 in this thread, look for "HBR decoders" in the list.
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post #146 of 1049 Old 01-28-2008, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Yes there is. You are posting in it.

See post #1 in this thread, look for "HBR decoders" in the list.

Thanks...I now remember reading that first post a while back, but had forgotten this thread covered HBR because of the thread title.

I had also forgotten how few HBR pre/pros were available at present...

I wonder why Rotel didn't have a new pre/pro at CES? The 1069 seems quite problematic, and doesn't do HBR anyway. Perhaps a 1099 is on the way this year?
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post #147 of 1049 Old 01-30-2008, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

I'd be seriously considering the Cary 11a, had it not been for the 2 HDMI inputs

It's really designed to be used with an external video scaler / processor - so 2 HDMI's is plenty for that scenario. It's a particular niche to be sure, but there's a few people out there who don't want unused video circuitry in a pre/pro. I'm waiting on the Cary info for this reason, but also keeping an eye on the Marantz 8003 and Integra info (we don't have the Integra option in the UK as yet) as they seem to also offer excellent bang for the buck.
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post #148 of 1049 Old 01-31-2008, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by peteS View Post

It's really designed to be used with an external video scaler / processor - so 2 HDMI's is plenty for that scenario. It's a particular niche to be sure, but there's a few people out there who don't want unused video circuitry in a pre/pro. I'm waiting on the Cary info for this reason, but also keeping an eye on the Marantz 8003 and Integra info (we don't have the Integra option in the UK as yet) as they seem to also offer excellent bang for the buck.

But, it does create a bit of a problem if you don't have a switcher, and if that switcher allows the audio to go through, it would seem to make more sense to go with 'passthru' that just pulls out the audio.


I've currently got the Bryston SP1 a 'purist' audio only processor, and since it's full HD/HDMI upgrade is at least a year a way, and the upgrade just adds 5.1 analog inputs (though I do have a multichannel switcher), I'm looking for something to tide me over and allow for experimentation of the new audio codecs, with a mass of cables in the back of my rack.
Problem is it doesn't really make sense to spend over $2k for a 'tide over', but, I seem to have to pay that to get what I currently need:
  1. At least one HDMI input with 5.1 LPCM, to use without connection to HDMI display.
  2. Three optical inputs.
  3. Four component inputs (with two outputs a bonus).
  4. Balanced stereo inputs.
  5. 6.1+ balanced outs.
  6. 5.1 analog inputs for SACD/DVD-A
1, is the tide-over as my Pioneer blu-ray only does 5.1 LPCM so the HBR would be a bit of overkill. But, getting out audio without a HDCP display may make it all moot.
2, because my TiVo, DVHS VCR, and Airport Express only have optical so this makes things easier.
3, is the annoying one as I have to go above $3k with the B&K to get more than three inputs, for some reason most have more than 4 HDMI inputs, but, only three component!!!!!!!!
4, is for my DJ mixer that has balanced TRS outs; and would also likely be for a DAC, good phono amp...
5, because I'd like to get at least the upgrade from my SP1 that only has 5.1 balanced outputs.
6, could be used for my blu-ray too, but, with HDMI ins, some backwards compatibility.

The Denon Pro DN-A7100 is most of the way there (especially with just XLR outs as that's all I'll be using), just the component issue (though there is room for the fourth set), but, I've got a 4 input Zektor so I'll manage. But, would be nice to have all in one box as it would be nice to use the Zektor with the inputs, but, I can't assign two audio inputs to one component input. The Onkyo/IR is certainly cool, but, I don't really need the video processor, and don't have any HBR capable sources anyway--and it also only has three component inputs, so the Denon would be just fine for now (and at least the all black Onkyo is not nearly as ugly as other, it's also huge and would need to be shoe-horned into my rack). As for future proof, the B&K has plenty of I/O for the future, but, do I really want to spend over $3k, for a temporary fix? And I'm looking at upgrading from my multi-scan CRT HDTV, and complete my speaker upgrade, so there is a budget.

erik g
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post #149 of 1049 Old 02-01-2008, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaderson View Post

But, it does create a bit of a problem if you don't have a switcher, and if that switcher allows the audio to go through, it would seem to make more sense to go with 'passthru' that just pulls out the audio.

Yep, but most video processors do this. A combination of a VP50Pro and the Cary give most of what you want and give a very purist approach (i.e. the scaler does the video work and just passes on the audio via HDMI, and the pre/pro the audio work), but of course it's considerably more than $2k
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post #150 of 1049 Old 02-02-2008, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Holy cow this thread has achieved stickyness.

I guess all this work has been useful to the community. Thank you, moderators.
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