SSP & Pre/Pros that support HDMI Audio MPCM - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1049 Old 11-16-2007, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Google SSP Spreadsheet is the source for the table. Please feel free to update the "Next Version" tab of the table. I will edit and promote to this posting as it evolves.

Feature Legend:
  • Codec
    • HBR - native High Bit Rate Decoders: Dolby Digital TrueHD, DTS-HD MA (and MPCM)
    • MPCM - multi-channel PCM over HDMI (either 6 or 8 channels) support only
  • HDMI Version
    • HDMI 1.0 is required for MPCM
    • HDMI 1.2 is required for SACD DSD format
    • HDMI 1.3 is required for HBR format
    • HDMI 1.4 is required for 3D Video
  • Video Mode
    • VS - Video Switching - only switches HDMI inputs to output & limited transcoding
    • VP - Video Processing - supports video processing features beyond switching & transcoding, which may include noise & cadence management, aspect ratio management, anamorphic support, colour management.
  • Surround Mode
    • THX -THX audio processing modes supported (and DPL as well)
    • DPLIIX - Dolby Pro Logic IIx Movies & Music modes supported
    • DPLIIz - Dolby Pro Logic IIz for support of additional height speakers
  • HBR Surr. - can the Surround Mode be applied to the HBR bitstream codecs (TrueHD, DTS HD MA)?
  • Decoders
    • DSD - native SACD DSD over HDMI decode
    • HDCD - High Definition CD
  • Spkr X-Over - Speaker Crossover:
    • Fixed - 80Hz for all speakers
    • Single - one adjustable crossover value applied to all speakers
    • Pair - adjustable crossover value per pair of speakers (F/C/S/SB/SW)
    • Custom - adjustable crossover value per speaker
  • Room Correction
    • None
    • GEC - Graphic Equalizer (fix band freq domain only)
    • PEQ - Parametric Equalizer (freq domain only)
    • Lexicon EQ
    • Audyssey - MultEQ, MultEQ XT, MultEQ Pro
    • Trinnov
  • Analog Bypass - can the SSP be used as a pure preamp passing analog inputs through a pure analog path?
  • Feature boxes that are blank (empty) mean that the feature behaviour has not yet been determined.

LL
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post #2 of 1049 Old 11-16-2007, 08:37 AM
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Lexicon MC-12 HD fits your description.

Sanjay

Sanjay
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post #3 of 1049 Old 11-16-2007, 09:49 AM
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Mark Levinson No. 40 w/HDMI card ($$$$$)

Lexicon MV-5 ($$)

Admittedly, the MV-5 has a built-in Faroudja video processor, which you don't need, but it's cheaper than the Halcro, Anthem or MC-12HD. It definitely supports 5.1 MPCM; not sure about 7.1 MPCM.
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post #4 of 1049 Old 11-16-2007, 10:42 AM
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Krell S-1000 and their flagship evolution
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post #5 of 1049 Old 11-16-2007, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Krell S-1000 and their flagship evolution

I spoke to Richard at AVS. The current S-1000 does not support HDMI Audio input. However, an HDMI 1.3 hardware upgrade is coming that apparently will enable it. That tracks with this posting in the The D2 Alternative thread.

I understand the Evolution however does support HDMI 1.3 and all the HBR codecs.
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post #6 of 1049 Old 11-16-2007, 02:12 PM
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Note the Anthem is a 5.1 and not 7.1 MPCM and will not support HDMI HBR bitstream if that is important (but likely not unique in this range of products).

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #7 of 1049 Old 11-16-2007, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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That is important, thanks. I want at least seven channels supported.

One other potential candidate is the NAD T175. It is unclear if this supports 7 channel PCM which is being debated in the NAD thread (I think).
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post #8 of 1049 Old 11-17-2007, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Bump due to the intensity of the AVR traffic.

Anyone know of others? I have heard comments about the Integra 9.8 supporting HDMI audio input and providing the full HBR codecs.

If anyone cares, support my request to split SSPs from AVRs in this request to AVS board admins.
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post #9 of 1049 Old 11-19-2007, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Hi,

What SSP or Pre/Pros current support audio input via HDMI using multichannel PCM? I don't mean onboard decoding, I just am trying to see what will handle MPCM.

I am specifically not looking for a AVR (I have seperate amps) nor do I really care about video processing (I have a seperate video chain).

Currently I know of Anthem's D2, but that includes a video processor which I don't need.

I do want a very good analog preamp built in with digital bypass capability.

I have heard the Halcro SSP-100 supports MPCM with an upgrade.

Any others?

What about the Anthem AVM40, there no Video processor in that model.
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post #10 of 1049 Old 11-19-2007, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolstoi View Post

What about the Anthem AVM40, there no Video processor in that model.

See the quote from above:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

Note the Anthem is a 5.1 and not 7.1 MPCM

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post #11 of 1049 Old 11-19-2007, 01:22 PM
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Enkoder: Thanks for the heads up on the Lexicon MV-5.

I skimmed the manual and it looks like a no frills HDMI 1.1 A/Vprepro. And at $3000, (for a Lexicon!!?!?) it should hit a sweet with alot of us here. Some will be put off by lack of upscaling to 1080p or only 2 HDMI in. No balanced in/outs either. Its bass managment is pretty good, but not as fine as Anthem's. The xover adjusts are only 120, 100, and 80hz to 40hz in 10hz increments.

It sounds like it can post-process Logic 7 or DPL IIx over multi-ch PCM, which is great for those of us with 7.1 ch and the new formats. A must for me.

I'm gonna pass this along to the Cary Cinema 11 thread.
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post #12 of 1049 Old 11-19-2007, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bing View Post

Some will be put off by lack of upscaling to 1080p or only 2 HDMI in. It sounds like it can post-process Logic 7 or DPL IIx over multi-ch PCM, which is great for those of us with 7.1 ch and the new formats.

My reading of the manual suggested 5.1 PCM only (see page 3-23). Does it support 7.1 PCM?
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post #13 of 1049 Old 11-19-2007, 02:56 PM
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Good point. I didn't consider 7.1 PCM input via hdmi. Maybe I'll email lexicon if i get really interested in this piece. I guess that would be the most future proof. I'm just happy with good post-processing and bass management, because realistically, we don't have software to take advantage of that anyway.
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post #14 of 1049 Old 11-19-2007, 07:12 PM
 
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Just go with the integra as if offers the best of the bunch.
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post #15 of 1049 Old 11-19-2007, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluray_1080p View Post

Just go with the integra as if offers the best of the bunch.

I didn't ask which one is best, I asked what's on the market right now that is MPCM capable over HDMI.

And I would have to be able to find a dealer for Integra. If their web site is to be believed, they have none in Canada. I know that can't be true but it makes finding the Integra very hard. Know any Canadian dealers?
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post #16 of 1049 Old 11-20-2007, 12:52 AM
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Yes, it's a pretty sad old list isn't it? Especially when pretty much every current receiver does this and more.

I too would like a prepro that accepts the PCM output of my universal player via HDMI. For me it is because I really like my SACDs. I'm less fussed about the HD audio form HD-DVD.

And I want a unit that does NOT upscale or deinterlace since I want to feed my scaler the least touched signal from my DVD players, ie 480i/576i and 1080i from the HD-DVD. I just want at least 3 HDMI inputs and component to HDMI for cable.

For me the Onkyo is closest since it has balanced outputs, which would simplify my cabling, but it converts component 480i to 480P HDMI.

On the other hand, it's REON scaling and the Audyssey EQ (in other words the bits everyone else likes) are wasted since I have outboard solutions for both.

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post #17 of 1049 Old 11-20-2007, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post

For me the Onkyo is closest since it has balanced outputs, which would simplify my cabling, but it converts component 480i to 480P HDMI.

Steve,

I have been very surprised by this gap in the market. I am also surprised by the low number of high end seperates that support THX processing. It can't be a cost issue on either side. Why would seperate manufacturers not adopt HDMI PCM input? I just don't get it.

I have looked for further SSPs that will do HDMI MPCM. I hear rumours of Emotiva and Primare doing something with HBR codecs, MPCM and HDMI, but nothing definate.

As for video, I have a Radiance XD, so I won't use the switching no matter what the SSP offers.

It seems like SSP manufacturers really want to sell SSP/VP combo solutions.

Eric
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post #18 of 1049 Old 11-20-2007, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bing View Post

Good point. I didn't consider 7.1 PCM input via hdmi. Maybe I'll email lexicon if i get really interested in this piece. I guess that would be the most future proof. I'm just happy with good post-processing and bass management, because realistically, we don't have software to take advantage of that anyway.

Here is what Lexicon emailed back to me concerning the 5.1 or 7.1 through HDMI as well as a few questions that I also had. This unit is a little disappointing considering how new it is.

Hello Ted,

The Logic 7 in the MV-5 is tailored specifically to the hardware of the MV-5. It performs great, but the MC-12 HD is more powerful and will be superior.

The MV-5 is compatible with 5.1 LPCM signals, not 7.1 signals. This is the same for the MC-12HD.

The MV-5 can not pass thru a 1080p signal. There are no plans for a 1080p upgrade for this unit. The MC-12HD supports this.

Best regards,

Greg Hould
Technical Support Coordinator
Harman Specialty Group
Lexicon|Mark Levinson|Revel
Tel: (781) 280-0300
Fax: (781) 280-0499
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post #19 of 1049 Old 11-20-2007, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTGOLFER View Post

Here is what Lexicon emailed back to me concerning the 5.1 or 7.1 through HDMI.

Thanks for checking this out.
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post #20 of 1049 Old 11-20-2007, 10:13 AM
 
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The higher end SSP companies do and will support 7.1 over PCM along with bitrate, it's just that when you are ordering 100 chips at a time vs 10,000 you have economies of scale to deal with, and more research that goes into making improvements into each pre/pro. They are coming. They also generally require more bench testing to make sure things get done right.

Unfortunately we just have to wait until they're released.

Richard
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post #21 of 1049 Old 11-20-2007, 10:17 AM
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Just for completeness, you might add the Onkyo Pro PR-SC885P, which is a repackaged Integra DTC-9.8 with different cosmetics.
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post #22 of 1049 Old 11-20-2007, 02:58 PM
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Does anybody know if the Rotel RSP-1069 accept multichannel PCM over HDMI? This is a new processor with HDMI1.1 inputs. I have written the company a few times with this question but they have never responded.
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post #23 of 1049 Old 11-20-2007, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdc115 View Post

Does anybody know if the Rotel RSP-1069 accept multichannel PCM over HDMI? This is a new processor with HDMI1.1 inputs. I have written the company a few times with this question but they have never responded.

This posting is rather confusing claiming both yes and no...

But hereis a yes.

The question is whether it will be 5.1 PCM or 7.1 PCM.
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post #24 of 1049 Old 11-20-2007, 03:13 PM
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please add Yamaha Z11 (amps can be shut off) to MPCM + HBR Decoders

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #25 of 1049 Old 11-20-2007, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

please add Yamaha Z11 (amps can be shut off) to MPCM + HBR Decoders

Most better AVRs have pre-outs. I am really just trying to track non-AVR pre/pros or SSPs. The AVR community has lots of choices already
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post #26 of 1049 Old 11-20-2007, 03:22 PM
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Thanks VTGolfer! I live without 7.1 PCM, but not passing 1080p is inexcusable.
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post #27 of 1049 Old 11-20-2007, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bing View Post

I live without 7.1 PCM, but not passing 1080p is inexcusable.

Well, 6.1 material is announced for TrueHD, so you need more than 5.1 PCM to listen to that. I wonder what a 5.1 SSP does with a 6.1 PCM feed?
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post #28 of 1049 Old 11-20-2007, 04:05 PM
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You could add the Audiolab 8000AP

Can't post a link, but www audiolab co uk
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post #29 of 1049 Old 11-20-2007, 05:38 PM
 
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Quote:


and 1080i from the HD-DVD.

Why would you have 1080i from the hi def player?

Quote:


but it converts component 480i to 480P HDMI.

And? 480p out of a SD DVD player is standard.
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post #30 of 1049 Old 11-20-2007, 05:40 PM
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Yamaha Z11 Link
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...9&CTID=5000300

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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