AVRs that support HDMI Audio MPCM or HBR Decoders - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 158 Old 11-30-2007, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsil View Post

661 can apply PLIIx on pcm stream.

For the thread it doesn't matter, the intent is to capture real PCM streams, not simulated rears.

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post #32 of 158 Old 11-30-2007, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelheart1948 View Post

Both the Denon 3808 and 4808 have 4 HDMI 1.3a inputs not 3.

Thank you. Updated.

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post #33 of 158 Old 11-30-2007, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

What about these receivers from Yamaha? Do any of these handle it properly?

RX-V661
HTR-6060

Under protest I added these two. They really are last generation AVRs. Good value, not future oriented. In the future I'll add when the information is given on the AVRs, not based on questions and lack of pointers to reference materials.

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post #34 of 158 Old 11-30-2007, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

Under protest I added these two. They really are last generation AVRs. Good value, not future oriented. In the future I'll add when the information is given on the AVRs, not based on questions and lack of pointers to reference materials.

Sorry about that. They both have 2 v1.2a HDMI inputs. However, they both can not do any of the new HD codecs so I think they both belong in the Eight Channel (6.1/7.1) MPCM category.

Also both of them are listed as not having any HDMI upconversion. They will upconvert over component but not HDMI.

Here is what I have found about the other Yamaha HTR- receivers. Not sure what category the HTR-6080 fits into but I think it is similar to the HTR-6060 but it does have 1080i,720p, 480p upscaling.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=947100

HTR-6080
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...1&CTID=5000400
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post #35 of 158 Old 11-30-2007, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Sorry about that. They both have 2 v1.2a HDMI inputs. However, they both can not do any of the new HD codecs so I think they both belong in the Eight Channel (6.1/7.1) MPCM category.

Also both of them are listed as not having any HDMI upconversion. They will upconvert over component but not HDMI.

Here is what I have found about the other Yamaha HTR- receivers. Not sure what category the HTR-6080 fits into but I think it is similar to the HTR-6060 but it does have 1080i,720p, 480p upscaling.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=947100

HTR-6080
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...1&CTID=5000400

Thank you. Corrected RX-V661 placement & passing vs conversion on the 2 added receivers.

I can't find in the thread or specs where the 6080 can do PCM over HDMI. If you can point to something more specific I'll add in a heartbeat. I hope I didn't mix up the 6060 & 6080, but pretty sure the beffier 6080 doesn't despite other capabilities.

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post #36 of 158 Old 12-01-2007, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

  • Yamaha RX-V1800, 4 HDMI Ver 1.3a inputs, DTS-MA & Dolby TrueHD decoders, 1080p upconversion
  • Yamaha RX-V3800, 4 HDMI Ver 1.3a inputs, DTS-MA & Dolby TrueHD decoders, 1080p upconversion
  • Yamaha Z11, 5 inputs, 2 out HDMI Ver 1.3a, DTS-MA & Dolby TrueHD decoders, ABT 1080p scaling/deinterlacing

Do the Yamaha V1800 & 3800 also use the Anchor Bay Technologies scaler? And I couldn't find anything at Yamaha's site that mentions the scaling/deinterlacing of the Z11. Is that kind of info buried in the manuals?

This list is great & should be stickied!!! This list coupled with the "5.1/7.1 PCM, HDMI, and DSP - An Explaination of the Future-Proof receiver" thread is extremely helpful. thanks again
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post #37 of 158 Old 12-01-2007, 01:14 PM
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It seems the Yamaha Z11 uses the ABT 1018, which only does scaling, not deinterlacing.

The Yamaha V3800 and V1800 use the ABT 1010, which again does only scaling, not deinterlacing.
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post #38 of 158 Old 12-01-2007, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyzziks View Post

It seems the Yamaha Z11 uses the ABT 1018, which only does scaling, not deinterlacing.

The Yamaha V3800 and V1800 use the ABT 1010, which again does only scaling, not deinterlacing.

Other LSI chips from ABT are used, is my understanding.

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post #39 of 158 Old 12-01-2007, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by leftheaded View Post

...

This list is great & should be stickied!!! ... thanks again

Thank you.

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post #40 of 158 Old 12-01-2007, 07:31 PM
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Can anyone confirm which of the Yamaha Receivers handle PCM properly? I am pretty confident that the RX-V661 and HTR-6060 handle. However, there are some conflicting reports on the HTR-6080, HTR-6090, and HTR-5990. Anyone know for sure on any of those receivers?
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post #41 of 158 Old 12-01-2007, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

Other LSI chips from ABT are used, is my understanding.

Well, as far as the V3800 and V1800 are concerned, the Yamaha site itself states, under the link "powered by ABT" only that it uses the 1010. I would imagine, if for no other reason than marketing, if Yamaha was using another ABT chip as well, they would say so. ABT is a selling point.

Yamaha doesn't seem to have any info on the scaling/deinterlacing for the Z11 on their website - the posts on avsforum in the Z11 thread all just say 1018, as you know.

As you can see on the ABT site, they only talk about 4 chips:
2018 - full scaling/deinterlacing chip
1018 - scaling chip
1010 - scaling chip
102 - SD deinterlacing chip

The only other addition that makes sense might be the ABT102, but that would not allow 1080i->1080p deinterlacing. Do you have any source of info that states additional ABT chips are used?
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post #42 of 158 Old 12-02-2007, 08:15 AM
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how about the nad t175? the cary 11a and 11v?
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post #43 of 158 Old 12-02-2007, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by karos View Post

how about the nad t175? the cary 11a and 11v?

Those are not AVRs. Please see link in first post to Eric's thread on pre-pros. If they were AVRs I would need a lot more info than a model number to add them, regardless.

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post #44 of 158 Old 12-03-2007, 11:21 AM
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RX-V861
7.1, MPCM, Upscaling to 720p/1080i (not sure what chip)

The AVR-247 and AVR-347 are 7.1 receivers as well. Thought I would point it out but I'm not sure if you had them in the 5.1 section for a reason.
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post #45 of 158 Old 12-03-2007, 11:30 AM
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  • Onkyo TX-NR605, 2 in HDMI 1.3a, upconversion to 720p, DTS-MA, TrueHD HBR bitstream
  • Onkyo TX-NR705, 3 in HDMI 1.3a, upconversion to 720p, DTS-MA, TrueHD HBR bitstream

Shouldn't they be Onkyo TX-SR605 and Onkyo TX-SR705?
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post #46 of 158 Old 12-03-2007, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Can anyone confirm which of the Yamaha Receivers handle PCM properly? I am pretty confident that the RX-V661 and HTR-6060 handle. However, there are some conflicting reports on the HTR-6080, HTR-6090, and HTR-5990. Anyone know for sure on any of those receivers?

Any word on this? I still have not seen a definitive answer.
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post #47 of 158 Old 12-03-2007, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Any word on this? I still have not seen a definitive answer.

This is not a research thread. The items that were confirmable were included table. If you can indicate the reference, and the other aspects of each unit, like everyone else, I will add them. There have been other threads you have discussed this topic on. This is not that thread.

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post #48 of 158 Old 12-03-2007, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fyzziks View Post

Well, as far as the V3800 and V1800 are concerned, the Yamaha site itself states, under the link "powered by ABT" only that it uses the 1010. I would imagine, if for no other reason than marketing, if Yamaha was using another ABT chip as well, they would say so. ABT is a selling point.

Yamaha doesn't seem to have any info on the scaling/deinterlacing for the Z11 on their website - the posts on avsforum in the Z11 thread all just say 1018, as you know.

As you can see on the ABT site, they only talk about 4 chips:
2018 - full scaling/deinterlacing chip
1018 - scaling chip
1010 - scaling chip
102 - SD deinterlacing chip

The only other addition that makes sense might be the ABT102, but that would not allow 1080i->1080p deinterlacing. Do you have any source of info that states additional ABT chips are used?

Based on the fact that it does require more than one chip and the fact that every scaler ABT puts out, under the DVDO brand name, requires multiple chips. Are you contending the Z11 doesn't do scaling and deinterlacing (it does). I guess I'm missing the point. The line didn't say EXCLUSIVELY ABT, just as the Faroujda solutions are exclusively a single chip. I added ABT to the 1800/3800.

I guess I should have listened to folks to give no ancillary information on each unit, aside from the fact that it may help people look closer at the units.

I definitely don't want to post incorrect info, but as AVRs are becoming more feature packed more sometimes helps. Note the Video Processor forum is more relevant place to debate specific chips.

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post #49 of 158 Old 12-03-2007, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenju View Post

Shouldn't they be Onkyo TX-SR605 and Onkyo TX-SR705?

Ju-Ju,

Thank you, corrected.

Tim

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post #50 of 158 Old 12-03-2007, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfa7h3r View Post

RX-V861
7.1, MPCM, Upscaling to 720p/1080i (not sure what chip)

The AVR-247 and AVR-347 are 7.1 receivers as well. Thought I would point it out but I'm not sure if you had them in the 5.1 section for a reason.

V861 added, thanks for info and pointer.

While the AVR-247 and AVR-347 are have 7 amps, they do not do 8 channel (7.1 ) PCM. [BTW My real expensive Anthem pre-pro doesn't either]. The metric isn't amps it's channels of PCM or HBR bitstream for modern audio formats.

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post #51 of 158 Old 12-03-2007, 09:03 PM
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How about a List consisting of Receivers that accept PCM from HDMI??

I know the Marantz SR4002 and SR5002 accept the decoded audio through HDMI.

So does the Sony STR-DG810 and STR-DG910.

These may seem like budget receivers, but the fact they accept Multi Channel PCM through HDMI is still a nice feature.

Especially since the PS3 and Toshiba HD DVD players decode MOST of the High Definition Audio Formats in the player itself.
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post #52 of 158 Old 12-03-2007, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike171979 View Post

How about a List consisting of Receivers that accept PCM from HDMI??

I know the Marantz SR4002 and SR5002 accept the decoded audio through HDMI.

So does the Sony STR-DG810 and STR-DG910.

These may seem like budget receivers, but the fact they accept Multi Channel PCM through HDMI is still a nice feature.

If you look at the first post, that's exactly what this threadis about, multi-channel PCM and/or HBR bitstream. Could be either or both.

If you can githe specified information for each of the units (# of channels WITH a SPECIFIC link/reference to the number of PCM channels (not just number of amps or analog in/outs), # of HDMI ports, and if HBR he codecs supported and vid capabilities if known, then I will gladly add them. A model number and letting me do the scut work doesn't fly though.

Provide the info and I'll gladly update.

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post #53 of 158 Old 12-04-2007, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

This is not a research thread. The items that were confirmable were included table. If you can indicate the reference, and the other aspects of each unit, like everyone else, I will add them. There have been other threads you have discussed this topic on. This is not that thread.

WOW! I was just trying to clarify something that was totally on topic for this thread. You make it sound like this thread has gotten totally of topic and is out of control. I was just trying to make sure everyone had accurate information. I guess you are not interested in that then. I will take it elsewhere since it is obvious you want to be the dictator of this thread.
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post #54 of 158 Old 12-04-2007, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

WOW! I was just trying to clarify something that was totally on topic for this thread. You make it sound like this thread has gotten totally of topic and is out of control. I was just trying to make sure everyone had accurate information. I guess you are not interested in that then. I will take it elsewhere since it is obvious you want to be the dictator of this thread.

There is difference between being a dictator and a slave. I'm happy to update the thread when people do homework and provide references, not simply complain if something is included or not. If you pull your weight, I'll pull mine.

You have asked similar questions in other threads, e.g., http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=947100, and I'm happy to update the information when you get the answers and they have a reference. You don't need me to tell you that you are VERY welcome to start another competing thread. But let me warn you, for the time invested and attitudes like this it's simply not worth it.

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post #55 of 158 Old 12-04-2007, 11:52 AM
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Hi Rodolph,

Thanks for keeping the list up to date. A small addition, the Pioneer units listed on the first page both support DTS-HD MA bitstreams. They also support DVD-A and SACD over HDMI but I don't know if you're keeping track of that in your list.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...tailsComponent

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...tailsComponent

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post #56 of 158 Old 12-04-2007, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by catapult View Post

Hi Rodolph,

Thanks for keeping the list up to date. A small addition, the Pioneer units listed on the first page both support DTS-HD MA bitstreams. They also support DVD-A and SACD over HDMI but I don't know if you're keeping track of that in your list.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...tailsComponent

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...tailsComponent

Thank you (and thank you for links). Updated. Since this is a table focused on sound, both PCM & HBR, I added a footnote regarding DVD-A & SACD. I wasn't planning to include, but makes sense.

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post #57 of 158 Old 12-04-2007, 03:23 PM
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*Supports DVD-A & SACD over HDMI

Just a clarification. DVD-A's MLP has to be decompressed in the player, and then send MCH PCM downstream, so HDMI V1.1 is all that needed, same goes for DSD if converted to PCM, as many players will do that. Otherwise for DSD V1.2 is needed.

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post #58 of 158 Old 12-04-2007, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

Based on the fact that it does require more than one chip and the fact that every scaler ABT puts out, under the DVDO brand name, requires multiple chips. Are you contending the Z11 doesn't do scaling and deinterlacing (it does). I guess I'm missing the point. The line didn't say EXCLUSIVELY ABT, just as the Faroujda solutions are exclusively a single chip. I added ABT to the 1800/3800.

Every video processor DVDO markets has either the ABT1018/ABT102 combo (VP20 and VP30) or the single-chip wonder ABT2010 (VP50 and VP50Pro, I think).

No, I am not implying that the Yamaha receivers do not do deinterlacing, just that their deinterlacing is not done via ABT chips/algorithms. That is the big difference.
Quote:


I guess I should have listened to folks to give no ancillary information on each unit, aside from the fact that it may help people look closer at the units.

I definitely don't want to post incorrect info, but as AVRs are becoming more feature packed more sometimes helps. Note the Video Processor forum is more relevant place to debate specific chips.

Just trying to serve the interest of accuracy, that's all. Do with it what you will.
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post #59 of 158 Old 12-04-2007, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

Just a clarification. DVD-A's MLP has to be decompressed in the player, and then send MCH PCM downstream, so HDMI V1.1 is all that needed, same goes for DSD if converted to PCM, as many players will do that. Otherwise for DSD V1.2 is needed.

Are you sure about that? Pioneer has supported native MLP and DSD over i.Link for years so they have the chips to convert them to PCM in the receiver. As I understand it, MLP is the compression used by Dolby TrueHD so it shouldn't be a problem for the HDMI interface either. I forget which thread, maybe one of the Onkyo or Denon threads, but someone was sending MLP to the receiver over HDMI with no problems.

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post #60 of 158 Old 12-04-2007, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyzziks View Post

Every video processor DVDO markets has either the ABT1018/ABT102 combo (VP20 and VP30) or the single-chip wonder ABT2010 (VP50 and VP50Pro, I think).

No, I am not implying that the Yamaha receivers do not do deinterlacing, just that their deinterlacing is not done via ABT chips/algorithms. That is the big difference.


Just trying to serve the interest of accuracy, that's all. Do with it what you will.

I'm happy to update based on some reference. I do know from ABT that the 50 and 50pro are have more than one chip doing the processing duty, but it's academic. ABT has many more chips than are listed on their spec pages. Through CAM many VLSI functions can be combined for one or more products.

The academic part is that unless brahn pulls apart his Z11, I dont think you can say there is only one ABT chip in the unit. Accuracy requires some authoritative source. Regardless ABT is not a household name, even in established home theater households, so again I'm missing the point in an audio thread, even if we knew what chips are being used to perform all the video processing functions (which for all we know they are 10x better than ABT). Please if you have more info than the ABT web site, please share (in the Z11 thread) because I am interested, too.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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