the "official Denon AVR-2308ci / AVR-888 owners thread - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 830 Old 12-05-2008, 08:22 PM
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I am in need of a new reciever with HDMI capabilities. I have a Samsung LN52A650, PS3 and Dish Network ViP722 reciever. Here is the question...I was looking at the Denon AVR888 or the Sony STRDG820...Amazon has the Denon for $350 and the Sony for $300...which reciever would everyone recommend? It would seem the Denon is of better quality, but have read about several issues with the 888 and Denon customer service. Sony is a new model with more HDMI inputs and hi-res decoding (not that it matters with the PS3). So what are your thoughts? Denon or Sony? Thanks everyone for any advice.

Brian
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post #302 of 830 Old 12-08-2008, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pakow View Post

I have the Harmony One remote and it is definitely doing the trick with my setup. The available list of commands is pretty comprehensive, but i did have to teach it a few things. All in all, this is probably the single component of my system i would recommend most.

The most useful aspect is that you can have a complete list of every single command you ever need for each device so its there if you need it, but you can also create a seperate list of functions for each activity that has the most commonly used commands from each device given the activity (watching TV vs. DVD vs listening to radio, etc.

I'm not sure about "quick select", i haven't played with these at all yet, i'm guessing it is different eq and/or processing configurations. I think the short answer is that if there is no command for it on the 888 remote, you won't be able to use the harmony for it. But if the 888 remote does have a function for it then it will work.

If you can use the "quick select" by navigating the menu with the 888 remote then of course it would be possible to perform the same navigation with the harmony, but probably easier to get up and push the button in that case.



edit: i thought more about it and when you use the activity buttons on the harmony "watch TV" for example, it will turn on all the correct devices and set the correct input on the reciever (nice). You can also tell the 888 to select the sound mode by source (MENU>PARAMETER>ADFM>ON) and have it remember the the last sound mode for each imput (MENU>MANUAL SETUP>AUDIO SETUP>AUTO SURROUND MODE).

I think you could use these features in combination and get pretty close to the net effect of the "quick select" function on the receiver.

Well the thing is that I use different configurations for the same source IE: if I'm listening to music when sleeping I use very low bass and more volume on rear speakers. There are other versions of denon remotes that have the quick select, but the one with the 888 doesn't.
Any Ideas?
Anyway Ill be having the 550 for Christmas, but if someone already knows how it will be appreciated.
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post #303 of 830 Old 12-08-2008, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briguy28 View Post

I am in need of a new reciever with HDMI capabilities. I have a Samsung LN52A650, PS3 and Dish Network ViP722 reciever. Here is the question...I was looking at the Denon AVR888 or the Sony STRDG820...Amazon has the Denon for $350 and the Sony for $300...which reciever would everyone recommend? It would seem the Denon is of better quality, but have read about several issues with the 888 and Denon customer service. Sony is a new model with more HDMI inputs and hi-res decoding (not that it matters with the PS3). So what are your thoughts? Denon or Sony? Thanks everyone for any advice.

Brian

THE DENON is FARRRRRRRRR more superior to the SONY in every way but friendliness of remote control and manual. If you don't care about it much and about the things you already said (newest audio formats and HDMI Inputs) I would pay WAYYYYY more than an additional 50$ to get the DENON
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post #304 of 830 Old 12-08-2008, 07:27 PM
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thanks leo...that's what I was leaning towards. wanted to try denon and for that price seems like a great deal.
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post #305 of 830 Old 12-09-2008, 05:54 AM
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I have a Harmony 670 and Denon 2308CI. I found that the harmony data base, at least in my case, did not really match my 2308CI with its remote which is the RC 1080. After trying different Denon models I found that just specifying 2308, without the CI, gave the closet match to inputs and commands. I then added inputs and commands with "Learn" to get what I needed.

So what you ask? I am 99% sure that on one of those models that I tried I saw the Quick Select commands. I remember thinking that would be useful. I never used that feature because it was not on my remote but it could be very handy.

If you do find the model please post it here. Now that I have a reasonable understanding of how it all works I would go back and reprogram. It is a shame you can't just look at the command set for each model in the data base online or give the remote model# instead of the unit model#. If you have the command on your remote it is easy to "learn" it. If you don't and it is important enough you have to use trial and error to find a model that has it and use learn for others.

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post #306 of 830 Old 12-09-2008, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc1 View Post

I have a Harmony 670 and Denon 2308CI. I found that the harmony data base, at least in my case, did not really match my 2308CI with its remote which is the RC 1080. After trying different Denon models I found that just specifying 2308, without the CI, gave the closet match to inputs and commands. I then added inputs and commands with "Learn" to get what I needed.

So what you ask? I am 99% sure that on one of those models that I tried I saw the Quick Select commands. I remember thinking that would be useful. I never used that feature because it was not on my remote but it could be very handy.

If you do find the model please post it here. Now that I have a reasonable understanding of how it all works I would go back and reprogram. It is a shame you can't just look at the command set for each model in the data base online or give the remote model# instead of the unit model#. If you have the command on your remote it is easy to "learn" it. If you don't and it is important enough you have to use trial and error to find a model that has it and use learn for others.

The newest models that end with 9 (i.e. 889, 2309) all have 3 quick select buttons instead of the tuner system buttons, please tell me if they work. The control is the same but those 3 buttons.
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post #307 of 830 Old 12-09-2008, 08:58 AM
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I should have time to try it today and will report back. I do expect it to work as someone here (batpig?) said the commands were the same within the Denon set and That has proved to be true so far for me. Also the 2309 would have been one of tose I tried. A few simple additions to the Harmony software could make a huge difference to the capabilities, i.e., a complete Denon command set that you could pick and choose from would allow you to make your own Ultimate custom remote with relative ease.

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post #308 of 830 Old 12-09-2008, 09:20 AM
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I've never used the quick select buttons with my Harmony (I still use my AVR 2105 profile for my AVR 888 with a couple of learned commands)..... I'm sure one of the Denon AVR device profiles will have them in there.

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post #309 of 830 Old 12-09-2008, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc1 View Post

I should have time to try it today and will report back. I do expect it to work as someone here (batpig?) said the commands were the same within the Denon set and That has proved to be true so far for me. Also the 2309 would have been one of tose I tried. A few simple additions to the Harmony software could make a huge difference to the capabilities, i.e., a complete Denon command set that you could pick and choose from would allow you to make your own Ultimate custom remote with relative ease.

Yes, I do believe the comands for the 889 or 2309 will work, the only reason I can think of is that the receiver is nor programed to do quick select from the remote (which means it doesn't understand the specific comand you want to execute).

So please report on your findings (since I don't have the remote yet) and tell us what you had to do.
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post #310 of 830 Old 12-09-2008, 01:15 PM
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hi,
I have a quick question on the 2308ci - I'm not sure here is the right channel to get the info but here it is anyway.

on my 2308ci, I have a turntable hooked up on the Phono input, sounds is great but only works with simulated modes.

When I select "Pure Direct Mode:ON" it's juste silence. same behaviour with Direct or Stereo. Now, would another setting at on or off (say, AudyseeEQ or some similar questionable processing) on another input would have impact on my Phono input ??

I truly hope there's a path purely analog for the Phono input up to the amp. I'd be stupid to ADC than DAC the signal, and hence loose much of its definition and add up noise.

pmb

pmb
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post #311 of 830 Old 12-09-2008, 01:53 PM
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double check the 2 CH DIRECT/STEREO settings in the AUDIO SETUP menu (in MANUAL SETUP). Make sure you haven't switched it to "B" speakers instead of "A" speakers or something like that.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
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post #312 of 830 Old 12-09-2008, 03:45 PM
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woaw. I feel like such an ass.
No batpig it was not that (there are no option to assign Direct mode to A or B); but you made me go look futher into the menu.

in the general options; 'Amp assign' I was at Multi or 2 CH (wathever that does ? does it assign direct to zone 2?)
set it at Main 7.1 and (haven't tested the rest though) now I can enjoy my TT in its purest form.

Thanks!

pmb
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post #313 of 830 Old 12-09-2008, 04:48 PM
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see pages 54-56 of your manual for diagrams.

the way it works is this:

if AMP ASSIGN is in "2CH" mode, it is set up for 5.1 and the spare surr.back amps are intended to be used for a different set of stereo speakers for 2-channel listening. When you engage a 2-channel mode (stereo/direct/pure), the amp turns off all 5.1 channels and activates the surr.back amps.

so, for example, let's say you had a 5.1 setup that you liked for movies and a 2-channel speaker rig that you preferred for music. you would hook up the 5.1 to the normal 5.1 speaker outs, and the 2-channel rig to the surr.back speaker outs. when you are in a surround mode (DD, DPL II, 5 CH STEREO, etc.) it will use the normal 5.1 setup. When you turn on direct/stereo/pure, the 5.1 setup is deactivated and sound comes out of the dedicated 2-channel speakers. So when you hit stereo/direct, it turned OFF your front speakers, because it expected you to have a different pair of speakers hooked up to the surr.back amps.

If you set it to any of the other modes it should work fine. In summary, the AMP ASSIGN settings are:

1. 7.1 = all 7 amps used for zone 1
2. ZONE 2 = 5 amps used for zone 1, 2 surr.back amps used for zone 2
3. 2 CH = 5 amps used for 5.1 setup in zone 1, 2 surr.back amps only turn on when you select direct/stereo mode (and the 5.1 turns off)
4. BI AMP = the surr.back amps reproduce the same signal as the front L/R

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
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post #314 of 830 Old 12-11-2008, 09:53 PM
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Hey djbono/batpig.

Had the same problem, thanks for the info.

Scroll thru menu for 30mins, no solution, check manual for 30mins, don't notice this. Come to avsforum.com, answer immediate, solution in no time.
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post #315 of 830 Old 12-12-2008, 01:00 PM
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Just keeping up to date and reading the thread I see a lot of questions about the remote.
I purchased a harmony one recently - wow! - how did I ever get by before

It runs absolutely everything with a little tweaking. If you tell it you have a second activity for the "house sound" it allows you to access all the functions for zone two from the AVR 88

It even runs my old VOOM receiver which I now use as an OTA box

I've put all my old remotes in a drawer
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post #316 of 830 Old 12-12-2008, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leoajax View Post

Yes, I do believe the comands for the 889 or 2309 will work, the only reason I can think of is that the receiver is nor programed to do quick select from the remote (which means it doesn't understand the specific comand you want to execute).

So please report on your findings (since I don't have the remote yet) and tell us what you had to do.


I checked and neither 889 or 2309 have quick select commands in Harmony data base. You must find a model with a remote that has the quick select on buttons. PITA! If Harmony would just let you search and pick! Other then that I am Really Impressed with the remote and the system.

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post #317 of 830 Old 12-12-2008, 11:49 PM
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...SACD via HDMI?
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post #318 of 830 Old 12-13-2008, 12:00 AM
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nope, only the 3808 and up do. you need the player to decode it first and output PCM over HDMI (like with the Oppo or PS3)

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
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post #319 of 830 Old 12-14-2008, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leoajax View Post

There are other versions of denon remotes that have the quick select, but the one with the 888 doesn't.
Any Ideas?

Im sure it would work fine if you used the remote w/ quick select from the other model to teach your harmony. Of course that requires actually getting your hands on a remote. Maybe walk into BB with your laptop and harmony?
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post #320 of 830 Old 12-14-2008, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc1 View Post

I checked and neither 889 or 2309 have quick select commands in Harmony data base. You must find a model with a remote that has the quick select on buttons. PITA! If Harmony would just let you search and pick! Other then that I am Really Impressed with the remote and the system.

Thanks for trying, I'll wait for my 550 to arrive on Christmas and do some research (if I find a model that works, I'll report to you). too bad it's impossible to me to find a remote that has that feature and just use the learning capability.
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post #321 of 830 Old 12-16-2008, 06:55 AM
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Have 5.1 single-room [small] system. Two audio/video feeds [HDMI] from DirecTV DVR and Yamaha universal disc player, and one audio feed [analog] from computer. Music performance/surround-sound peformance 50/50. Denon 888 or Marantz 4002?
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post #322 of 830 Old 12-16-2008, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnaegele View Post

Have 5.1 single-room [small] system. Two audio/video feeds [HDMI] from DirecTV DVR and Yamaha universal disc player, and one audio feed [analog] from computer. Music performance/surround-sound peformance 50/50. Denon 888 or Marantz 4002?

I love denon more than any other receiver but if you have speakers that don't require a lot of power go with the marantz,it has one more hdmi in than the denon and it has detachable power cord which I was told is a good thing. The only difference in power is 20 watts in favor of the denon but that's not enough to make a difference, if it was 50 or more than it would matter.
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post #323 of 830 Old 12-16-2008, 08:24 AM
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Thanx!
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post #324 of 830 Old 12-16-2008, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnaegele View Post

Have 5.1 single-room [small] system. Two audio/video feeds [HDMI] from DirecTV DVR and Yamaha universal disc player, and one audio feed [analog] from computer. Music performance/surround-sound peformance 50/50. Denon 888 or Marantz 4002?

Marantz 4002:
- one more HDMI
- slightly better reputation for 2-ch music audio quality
- full 7.1 channel pre-outs

Denon 888:
- superior Audyssey MultEQ auto calibration
- slightly better reputation for surround sound performance / processing
- analog > digital video scaling up to 1080p
- slightly more power


the detachable power cord is the LAST thing you should worry about!!

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
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post #325 of 830 Old 12-16-2008, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Marantz 4002:
- one more HDMI
- slightly better reputation for 2-ch music audio quality
- full 7.1 channel pre-outs

Denon 888:
- superior Audyssey MultEQ auto calibration
- slightly better reputation for surround sound performance / processing
- analog > digital video scaling up to 1080p
- slightly more power


the detachable power cord is the LAST thing you should worry about!!

Actually, detachable cords are a downer in my book: you can lose them [and I have].

Thanx for the help!
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post #326 of 830 Old 12-17-2008, 01:05 AM
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...after hearing all about how difficult the Denon 888 was to set up and get running. Now I haven't "assigned" anything yet, nor run through the speaker set up yet [after all it's 2 a.m. MST - I waited till after a replay of the Duke-Stanford wbball game to get started], but it took all of an hour to unhook the Kenwood 9070 [a fine, if non-HDMI, unit] and wire up the Denon. Did it just about the way I've hooked up receivers since the heydays of my Yamaha 2040 [still have that monster and it still works]. Plugged the DirecTV DVR and the Yamaha universal changer into the two HDMI inputs, the HDTV into the HDMI output, the analog audio cables from the computer into "Aux," set the sound on "Pure" and was off and running. Great picture, great sound [even without any tweaking]. Fine-tuning the Denon may be a challenge, but so far, so good. Yes, the remote is a bit weird -- but if it were the worst weird I had ever faced, my life would have been a lot more pleasant than it was.
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post #327 of 830 Old 12-18-2008, 02:16 PM
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I wanted to say, I purchased the 888 from amazon and have had it for a week now. I love it. The menu's are confusing, but as a massive nerd / programmer I enjoyed figuring them out. The remote is wack and I broke the latch on the hidden door almost right away, I can only laugh. So yes the FUD about the remote and the confusing menus is true, it also has a new electronics toxic smell to it if u sniff over it (like I did while plugging stuff in)

I've been using an onkyo 500 series for about 6 years now, and this amp is a proper upgrade, its got power to spare, I don't know how to say it, but you can turn it up and it won't hold you back, only your speakers and ears will hehe.

Also, this is the lowest priced denon that is made in japan for whatever thats worth, its a big black box from japan.

Ive been using this to listen to heavy metal and various electronic stuff, and watch movies, happy with the sound all around. Also use it to amp some senn hd-555 headphones I use for gaming.

Im not gonna quote the price, but if your looking for solid sound around the price that this is on amazon.com, go for it.

I've got it connected to the optical spdif intel-hda output on my motherboard and am using linux with alsa set to use 44100.
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post #328 of 830 Old 12-18-2008, 02:22 PM
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I also want to add a finding I don't know much for sure about. I can set my alsa.conf to use 96000, and it outputs over spdif at 32/96:

access: MMAP_INTERLEAVED
format: S32_LE
subformat: STD
channels: 2
rate: 96000 (96000/1)
period_size: 1024
buffer_size: 8192

And it shows up as 96000 on the reciever as well. I didn't know this was possible, but it seems to work, not that I have much 24/96 content to send out to it, also the math for most 44100 music into 96000 isnt perfect. (altho I have never been able to hear a difference)

So I leave it on 44100 most of the time.

* update: 192000 also works. Altho I have zero 192000 material, I have tried some 24/96 stuff and it sounds great, but I don't really know if I can tell the difference or not.
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post #329 of 830 Old 12-19-2008, 06:00 AM
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I have had the 888 for about 2-3 months now and really enjoy it. Coming from a mid-range Sony, I really like the auto calibration. My only complaint is that when inputing the HD sound from my Blu-Rays, I really feel like the audio is often difficult to hear and overpowered by the other effects. I have tried adjusting manually to no real avail. Unfortunately, the sound normalization/ equilization features are disabled for this type of input.

Otherwise, a great piece of equipment.
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post #330 of 830 Old 12-19-2008, 09:40 AM
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the NIGHT mode should still work for MULTI CH IN surround mode, I'm pretty sure I use it sometimes watching HD DVD's on my 888.

You should also check your BD player, there is probably a setting in the player's menus for some Dynamic Range Compression (DRC) which would accomplish a similar thing.

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Denon Avr 888 7 1 Channel 5 1 2 Channel Independent Zone Home Theater Receiver With Hdmi I O And Ser

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