Avr Faq - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 408 Old 07-18-2009, 11:45 PM - Thread Starter
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This request for information is best posted outside of this thread.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #302 of 408 Old 07-19-2009, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HMenke View Post

.........
Reason for the question: I see no need to pay licensing royalties for bitstream decoding of HBR in the AVR that I don't plan to use. Also, I output the best possible HDMI signals from my source devices and I don't need or want the AVR to do any scaling/upconverting or de-interlacing......

I wouldn't worry about such things, just turn off or do not use those features. You would be eliminating many great AVR's from your list unnecessarily.

Any AVR is going to have numerous features and functions that you will never use, concentrate on your "must have" features instead.
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post #303 of 408 Old 07-19-2009, 03:37 PM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by HMenke View Post
.........
Reason for the question: I see no need to pay licensing royalties for bitstream decoding of HBR in the AVR that I don't plan to use. Also, I output the best possible HDMI signals from my source devices and I don't need or want the AVR to do any scaling/upconverting or de-interlacing......

Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

I wouldn't worry about such things, just turn off or do not use those features. You would be eliminating many great AVR's from your list unnecessarily.

LOL. This response just ignores the OP's rationale and the statement "Recommendations can include previous or discontinued models as well as new models." as if HMenke's reason (not wishing to pay for features he understands but DOESN'T WANT) is somehow flawed. Amazing
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post #304 of 408 Old 07-20-2009, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsurd2 View Post

LOL. This response just ignores the OP's rationale and the statement "Recommendations can include previous or discontinued models as well as new models." as if HMenke's reason (not wishing to pay for features he understands but DOESN'T WANT) is somehow flawed. Amazing

Well, it is flawed if you absolutely will not look at units that may have such unwanted features.

If AVR x @ $500 and AVR y @ $600 have very similar features that the buyer is looking for, but AVR x ($100 less expensive) has HDM and upconverting, why should he care? To use your logic he should not even consider the $100 less expensive unit.

Example: Yamaha RX-V2700 was replaced with the newer RX-V3800
Several times, due to a number of retail promotions, the newer RX-V3800 (HD audio decoding, 1080p upscaling, plus other added features) could be purchased new for less than the discontinued RX-V2700 (no HD audio decoding, upscaling to 1080i) could be had for used. Which would you have recomended?

Which is why I say concentrate on your must have features, compare models and prices and reviews, but don't just completely disregard a potentially great product simply because it has some features you may not desire.
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post #305 of 408 Old 07-21-2009, 10:03 AM
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[quote=toby10;16854213]Well, it is flawed if you absolutely will not look at units that may have such unwanted features.

If AVR x @ $500 and AVR y @ $600 have very similar features that the buyer is looking for, but AVR x ($100 less expensive) has HDM and upconverting, why should he care? To use your logic he should not even consider the $100 less expensive unit.

Example: Yamaha RX-V2700 was replaced with the newer RX-V3800
Several times, due to a number of retail promotions, the newer RX-V3800 (HD audio decoding, 1080p upscaling, plus other added features) could be purchased new for less than the discontinued RX-V2700 (no HD audio decoding, upscaling to 1080i) could be had for used. Which would you have recomended?
Hello,
I have to agree with Toby here. I can only relate my own experience. About 15 years ago, well past 50,I had never listened to anything but an am radio and a TV before. My neighbor showed me his new CD player. I was fascinated by that shiny little disc. I went out and bought a "Sony surround" on sale for $149 with free speakers. My friend screamed "you should have got pro logic" That started it. Over the next 3 years, I had eight different receivers.
I then reallized two things: I cannot buy'em as fast as they can make'em, and it is totally impossible to find the exact perfect receiver with only those features you want and no others. The manufacturers do this on purpose to keep us buying their "boxes". They will always have new "boxes" to sell us. Everthing is a compromise.

Without agonizing and pulling hair over endless minute specs that I don't undrstand anyway, I came up with a little formula that has always worked for me.
Get a good brand with at least 100 watts output. An Onkyo or a Yamaha with 90 or 110 watts is better than some that advertize 1000 watts.

The other thing is find a receiver that is adequate for your needs and then BUY the next model up.
I deviated from this and it cost me a few bucks. There always seems to be one or two receivers that are the "darlings" on the internet. In my case, it was the Onkyo 605 and the Yamaha 663. Last year, when I replaced my 10 year old Onkyo, I bought an Onkyo 605. It was adequate, and sounded good, but It ran too hot and I didn't like it. If I had followed my own rule and bought a 705, I might still have it.

I had never had a Yamaha before and wanted to try one. After reading online about the 663, I bought the 863. After using it for 10 months, I have not regretted buying it. Is it perfect? NO, but it is indeed the best receiver that I've ever had. Having said all this, I'm not sure that it is any better than an ONkyo 806 or a Pioneer in the same price range.
HERB

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post #306 of 408 Old 07-28-2009, 09:01 AM
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Michael, thanks for a great resource!
Although I read the FAQ a while ago, I just got around to reading the rest of the thread, and I'd like to comment on something back on page 1.
Someone asked "Can I just use a leftover OEM supplied RCA audio cord to make the S/PDIF digital coax connection?" and got the answer yes, qualified with getting cable designed for digital coax use might be best, and that such cable was not expensive to buy.
First, if you are trying not to spend any money and you keep your OEM cables, on some of the red-white-yellow sets designed for composite video + audio, the yellow video cable is heavier than the audio cables -- this is a better choice for digital coax. Or any single composite video cable (except the ones that are shoelace thin) , or one cable of a component video set, are better adapted for digital coax use than the really cheap RCA audio patch cords. Or any RG59 or RG6 coax you have can be used if you add an F to RCA adapter at each end http://www.ramelectronics.net/audio-...prod75518.html
Second, there was an implication that any RCA audio patch cord would work.
A problem is, not all RCA audio patch cords are coax! Many common ones are shielded twisted pair which CAN work but is not designed for S/PDIF frequencies.
Bottom line -- if you are trying to use leftover cable for S/PDIF, select video cable or "cable TV" coax + F to RCA adapters. For those buying cable specifically for digital coax for longer runs or who don't mind paying a little more for a well designed product, look for an 18ga center conductor (optionally tin or silver plated) with an LDPE or foamed PE dielectric and good shielding like Belden 1694: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/pages/...s/1694tech.htm
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post #307 of 408 Old 07-28-2009, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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There was a long debate over this before. The question was, whether all RCA cables are 75 ohm (I think that's the number.)

I cut apart one of the freebie cables I had laying around, and it looked like it was configured as a coax cable. Given that cables are not really labeled, it's hard to say how many are coax wired, and how many are not.

It's also unclear to me how important this is. There was discussion how video cables are not necessarily even 75 ohm, as the RCA plug was never designed for a characteristic impedance of 75 ohms.

I have to think that if a cable is working for you, it's probably fine. I guess jitter is a concern, but that's also been debated endlessly.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #308 of 408 Old 08-04-2009, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

This request for information is best posted outside of this thread.

Mike,

Your General AVR FAQ post was just outstanding. I must confess that I just read it today but I wanted to let you know how good it really was. That post alone will help many home theater people as much as anything I have ever read over the years. Again, great job.


<><

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post #309 of 408 Old 08-04-2009, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your kind words

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #310 of 408 Old 08-13-2009, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMAVADER View Post

Mike,
Your General AVR FAQ post was just outstanding....Again, great job.

You deserve another vote of thanks. I am now progressing out of the World of the Lost due to your efforts.
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post #311 of 408 Old 08-16-2009, 08:29 PM
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Hello, I'm new to AVR.
The Denon 4310 has a list of features that I find interesting.
One of my objectives with an AVR is to record digitally on my PC the sound of my Linn LP-12 record player.
Can someone tell me if the analog Phono input will be digitally encoded and if I will be able to record the signal from a digital audio output ?
Thanks
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post #312 of 408 Old 08-16-2009, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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This is best asked in a separate thread as are questions not pertaining to the FAQ - you will get more responses that way.

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post #313 of 408 Old 09-16-2009, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
A very popular player, the PS3 cannot send HBR bitstream and does not have multi-channel analog outputs, so option 1 is the only (current) option to get lossless audio from the PS3.

The new PS3 Slim can send bitstream.
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post #314 of 408 Old 09-16-2009, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I know One day I will probably get around to updating the FAQ, thanks.

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post #315 of 408 Old 09-21-2009, 08:25 PM
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Once again, GREAT article.

At this point, besides the already voiced recommendation of adding a line about PS3 Slim being able to output lossless bitstream via HDMI when its chubbier brethren could only do decoded LPCM via HDMI, consider adding the following:

Dolby (or is it "Doubly" ) Prologic IIz & Audyssey DSX, becoming more important as 9.x receivers are showing up.

Dolby Volume/Yamaha ADRC/Audyssey Dynamic Volume/ Dynamic Volume features.

Explicit clarification that SPDIF refers to undecoded, hence compressed, bitstream audio, maintaining the "fingerprints" that identify what the codec used for compression. Whereas MPCM, by definition, refers to decoded, hence uncompressed, audio, but losing the "fingerprints" that identify to the AVR exactly what were the means of encoding.

Great article, once again.
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post #316 of 408 Old 09-21-2009, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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S/PDIF can carry both PCM and bitstream, which I am sure you know. Just clarifying that point.

Some good ideas. I admit I lack the motivation to modify the FAQ at the moment, but one of these days, I might look it over and add some stuff.

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post #317 of 408 Old 09-25-2009, 03:22 PM
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I posted a similar question on the 3900 thread.

If given a choice, and ignoring cost, would you buy the Yamaha 3900 or the Onkyo 906B and why? I just bought a 3900, but after continuing to read some of the VP reviews, I am beginning to doubt my choice a little.


Thanks.

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post #318 of 408 Old 09-25-2009, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Why? I ran my RX-V3900 through HQV and it was pretty much perfect (assuming you mean VP.)

If you have real concerns about the 3900, please voice them in the 3900 thread, and people may be able to help you decide if the 3900 is for you or not.

For future posters, posting questions not directly related to the FAQ is not helpful as not everyone reads this. Please post to a more appropriate thread, or make a new one.

All comments directed to the FAQ itself are welcome.

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post #319 of 408 Old 09-25-2009, 10:50 PM
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MJH,

Not trying to overturn the world. I have read your reviews (many hours) which is largely why I purchased a 3900 to begin with (compared with the 2700 my old favorite, but couldn't afford). I just wanted to get some feedback before I fully committed. I don't have any specific questions, just learning.

I have never owned a Yamaha before nor any other high performance AVR, and I was just trying to make sure I invested my money in the right channel.

I only plan on buying an AVR every 10 years, so I wanted to confirm I made the correct choice with the 3900.

Apologies,
EdP

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post #320 of 408 Old 09-25-2009, 10:55 PM - Thread Starter
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No need for apologies. By all means post your concerns to the 3900 thread, and maybe someone will have covered the same ground you have. I have the HQV benchmark discs at home, and can run tests from that if it helps.

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post #321 of 408 Old 12-09-2009, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I removed the outdated references to PS3 not being able to bitstream. I felt there was no need to clarify that some PS3s bitstream and others do not.

By now, I would think that information is available in enough places.

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post #322 of 408 Old 12-14-2009, 12:12 AM
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Thanks for sharing. It's great.

KH-Audio is a company which deals with audio components, amplifier parts, guitar parts and so on.
Website:www.kh-audio.com Email:Sales2@kh-audio.com
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post #323 of 408 Old 12-18-2009, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I removed the outdated references to PS3 not being able to bitstream. I felt there was no need to clarify that some PS3s bitstream and others do not.

By now, I would think that information is available in enough places.

ARGH! So the new PS3 slimline CAN output bitstream audio but the ALL of the previous PS3's can NOT?!?!

Wow, another kick below the belt by Sony. I didn't buy an early enough model to get the media card reader or PS2 backwards compatibility, but I didn't buy a late enough model to get bitstream support?!?! After reading posts on other threads here on AVS I was convinced ALL of the PS3's support bitstream audio.

Electricity: Always take the path of least resistance. (If only life was so simple)
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post #324 of 408 Old 12-18-2009, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BNut View Post

ARGH! So the new PS3 slimline CAN output bitstream audio but the ALL of the previous PS3's can NOT?!?!

Wow, another kick below the belt by Sony. I didn't buy an early enough model to get the media card reader or PS2 backwards compatibility, but I didn't buy a late enough model to get bitstream support?!?! After reading posts on other threads here on AVS I was convinced ALL of the PS3's support bitstream audio.

Correct, old PS3 (fat) does not bitstream HD audio, new PS3 (slim) does bitstream HD audio.
But both deliver full range, lossless, hi-res HD audio as MPCM via HDMI, so it matters little which one can or cannot bitstream.

Micheal: I'd suggest puting back in the different PS3's handling of HD audio (case in point above).
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post #325 of 408 Old 12-23-2009, 06:32 PM
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There I was, scouring the internet looking for all of the information needed to put together a HT as a complete newbie, seemingly endless threads, reviews, etc were devoured. In the end I learned about what I would have learned perusing this faq, minus of course the newer technologies like HDMI that didnt exist then. I have only wandered around this forum sporadically since then and I have just now come across this faq as I am upgrading my now (heavy sigh) obsolescent equipment and doing the required study to get myself upgraded. Outstanding job, the effort shows. Thanks.
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post #326 of 408 Old 12-23-2009, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I appreciate the comments.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #327 of 408 Old 12-30-2009, 02:33 AM
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thanks for a great intro to AVR. i'm starting to look into upgrading my sound system and this awesome FAQ helped greatly in the process.
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post #328 of 408 Old 01-02-2010, 08:36 PM
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Thanks for the information

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post #329 of 408 Old 01-19-2010, 02:28 PM
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I haven't seriously researched AVRs since I put my last system together 9 years ago. My HT Magazine subscription has kept me up-to-date on the technology, but your one page post concisely answered many of my questions about how all of these technologies actually work together in the real world. That was the missing piece of the puzzle for me.

Thanks!
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post #330 of 408 Old 02-24-2010, 06:37 PM
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Holy crap. You just made me feel like a moron. I have some catching up to do with all this technology. Only have to read that 50 more times and I might start understanding it. But thanks for the info.
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