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post #331 of 409 Old 03-28-2010, 08:07 PM
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Great Stuff... (Head is still spinning)...LOL...but great stuff.
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post #332 of 409 Old 04-04-2010, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I added a bit of info on 3D. Please correct me if you see anything wrong. Thanks.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #333 of 409 Old 04-08-2010, 12:36 PM
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Wow, this was incredibly helpful. I was worried I needed some jiggawatt amplifier but after reading this I can see how just 50W/channel with my speakers will be plenty loud! Thanks!!!
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post #334 of 409 Old 04-08-2010, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I added a bit of info on 3D.
...
* Glasses which compatible with 3D titles (These glasses work off a signal and will alternatively pass light for one eye and not the other using LCD technology)

Glasses have to be of the active shutter type (not passive polarized or colored anaglyphic) and compatible with the display.

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post #335 of 409 Old 04-08-2010, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

Glasses have to be of the active shutter type (not passive polarized or colored anaglyphic) and compatible with the display.

Thanks, good info.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #336 of 409 Old 04-15-2010, 06:17 PM
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Found this excellent HDMI tutorial here :

http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/H...r_tng_1112.htm

My apologies if this link has been posted previously
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post #337 of 409 Old 04-15-2010, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Come across as advertising!

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #338 of 409 Old 04-16-2010, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordi25 View Post

Thanks Micheal for taking your time in writing this usefull info, it is the most complete and comprehensible info about avrs that i have seen!

Thanks

And thanks for removing the article text which could have been confusing to people (especially after future edits!)

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #339 of 409 Old 04-23-2010, 07:01 PM
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Hello, Encountered a problem with my AVR-1910. Cannot get output, via HDMI cable, to my HDTV. Can get components (DirectTV box and Blu-ray player) to work separately. Cannot get any on AVR-1910 setup screen menus to see if some function is disabled? Any suggestions.
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post #340 of 409 Old 04-23-2010, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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This thread is not the place to post questions (iunless they are about the FAQ.) Please post your question to a new thread. You will get much quicker answers, trust me

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #341 of 409 Old 04-28-2010, 07:43 AM
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walkshaunt -

Rather than posting to a new thread ... there is already a Denon 1910/790 Owner's thread that you can post your question to as well as get additional information on your new 1910.

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post #342 of 409 Old 04-30-2010, 12:41 PM
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I have a question on power consumption. I am looking to replace an old Onkyo HTIB receiver and have decided on the Pioneer VSX-920 or the Onkyo TX-SR608. These receivers have a huge difference in power consumption.

Will the lower power consumption mean a cheaper electric bill? I don't need anything too powerful since this is in a bedroom.
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post #343 of 409 Old 04-30-2010, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Probably best to post this to the forum, rather than to this thread. This is for questions on the FAQ.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #344 of 409 Old 06-05-2010, 09:27 AM
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Follow up question... I've noticed that a lot of the newer mid priced/features receivers do not have pre outs so that you can connect an outboard amp that way, (which makes no sense since they have the weaker power requirements). Are the pre outs a must to connect an external amplifier?

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post #345 of 409 Old 06-05-2010, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, you can get a speaker level to line level converter box. But pre outs are more convenient. And converting speaker level to line level adds more stages to the signal path which could increase distortion. If crossover distortion from the class B amps is the worst offender, you only want it to occur once for example.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #346 of 409 Old 06-05-2010, 10:02 AM
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Thanks MichaelJ...

So the Pre Outs are really the better option. OK... There are options out there from Onkyo, Denon, Panny, and Yamaha, with at least 5 pre outs, (not including subwoofer), but they are almost all mid to higher priced models with the larger amps. Am still kind of hoping to find one with decent features that doesn't necessarily have a large amp section. Research... research... research....

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post #347 of 409 Old 06-22-2010, 03:52 AM
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sorry 4 a newbe question here but in the specs it says
192 kHz / 24-Bit DAC & 192 kHz / 24-Bit ADC
so I can assume this is a great thing 2 have in a AVR
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post #348 of 409 Old 06-22-2010, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigc209 View Post

sorry 4 a newbe question here but in the specs it says
192 kHz / 24-Bit DAC & 192 kHz / 24-Bit ADC
so I can assume this is a great thing 2 have in a AVR

192/24 is the defacto standard in modern receivers because HDMI allows for that limit. You probably would not want to buy a receiver without it. However, all receivers I have seen in recent history have 192/24 capability.

192 khz means the DACs can handle sample rates of 192,000 samples / second. You won't see that in common use. However, some players can upsample a CD or whatever to that rate. The merits of that high of a rate are highly debateable.

24 means the bit depth is 24 bits. All that means, is that it can handle audio samples with 24 bits. Again, this is allowed by HDMI, so you want it to (even though 20 bits is likely good enough.)

Marketers probably think it looks impressive, so they list it as a spec.

If anyone really wants a disertation on the subject of bit rates and bit depths, there's a paper called 'Coding high quality digital audio' which goes into a lot of technical detail.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #349 of 409 Old 12-05-2010, 08:46 AM
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I am sorry if this question has been asked and answered before. Is there a disc, or a file that I can download, that contains a lossless soundtrack that can only be heard if my BluRay player is correctly decoding the lossless soundtrack and passing along the PCM to my pre-pro? I have a pre-pro that cannot decode DTS-MA or Dolby Digital HD, but will accept PCM from my BluRay player. I've set my BluRay player to decode the lossless soundtracks and pass along the decoded PCM to my pre-pro, but it would be nice to know that everything is happening as I hope it is. If there was a disc or file that would only play if my set-up was correct, it would be comforting to me!

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post #350 of 409 Old 12-05-2010, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal68 View Post

I am sorry if this question has been asked and answered before. Is there a disc, or a file that I can download, that contains a lossless soundtrack that can only be heard if my BluRay player is correctly decoding the lossless soundtrack and passing along the PCM to my pre-pro? I have a pre-pro that cannot decode DTS-MA or Dolby Digital HD, but will accept PCM from my BluRay player. I've set my BluRay player to decode the lossless soundtracks and pass along the decoded PCM to my pre-pro, but it would be nice to know that everything is happening as I hope it is. If there was a disc or file that would only play if my set-up was correct, it would be comforting to me!

Doesn't your player have a status capability which shows the currently playing audio stream?

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #351 of 409 Old 12-05-2010, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Doesn't your player have a status capability which shows the currently playing audio stream?

My BluRay player does not tell me what audio stream it is sending to my pre-pro, so I have to assume that it is sending the PCM soundtrack because that is the setting I have selected. It would be good to get some type of confirmation that this is indeed the case. Hence the question from me. Thanks.

Cal68

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post #352 of 409 Old 12-05-2010, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought it was standard to be able to see a status of what audio track was playing. Without that info, you can't know for sure. But if the player can decode all audio, and you select a given audio track, such as TrueHD, you are pretty much guaranteed lossless.

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post #353 of 409 Old 12-06-2010, 04:46 AM
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How is your Blu-ray connected to your pre-pro? HDMI or analog?
I also find it very odd that your Blu-ray player cannot display the audio and video information on your TV while the movie is playing.
A $60 budget Blu-ray player has this feature.
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post #354 of 409 Old 01-21-2011, 01:14 PM
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Thanks for this FAQ!
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post #355 of 409 Old 03-03-2011, 10:16 AM
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very nice write up
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post #356 of 409 Old 03-03-2011, 10:17 AM
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Thank you
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post #357 of 409 Old 05-23-2011, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Output power is certainly of some importance. The problem is with AVR power ratings. Their output power is not measured consistently. For that reason, you may be trying to compare apples and oranges when trying to compare the output power of two different AVRs.

When looking at power output specs, consider the following factors –

• Rated impedance (e.g. 8 ohms)
• Rated bandwidth (e.g. 20hz – 20khz, or 1khz)
• Rated Total Harmonic Distortion (THD)
• Number of channels driven ( usually not specified )

Impedance is a measure of electrical resistance. Rated impedance is usually 8 ohms for AVRs. AVRs may also show a 6 ohm rating. Most AVRs are not rated for 4 ohms. If you choose to use 4 ohm speakers with an AVR not rated for 4 ohm speakers, you may run into problems. Excess current which results from lower impedance loads could damage a receiver which is why they have protection circuits. Some people have used 4 ohm speakers with AVRs not specifically rated for it. Whether or not you can get away with this depends on factors such as how loud you want your sound, what speakers you have and the receiver design. Prudence in operating a receiver that's not rated for 4 ohm speakers is dictated.

Note that a nominal impedance is listed for speakers. Their actual impedance will vary over frequency. And 8 ohm speaker might have an impedance of 20 ohms in one section of it's response curve and 4 ohms in another. Some people worry that these variations in impedance can make some speakers difficult for a receiver to drive. It's not clear (to me) how legitimate a concern this is though.

AVRs can be measured using different signals. You will typically see either a 1 khz signal used or a full bandwidth (20 hz to 20 khz) used in the receiver's specs. A 1 khz signal will result in a higher rated power than a full bandwidth signal, and manufacturers will use that to get a higher rated power.

I'm looking for an answer in regards to power, and while this does a good job of explaining the different rating methods, it doesn't explain which measurement actually translates to speaker max input power. Pioneer publishes all three types of measurement in their receiver specs; for my VSX-521-K, the three measurements are:

Power Output Per Channel(20Hz-20kHz,.08%THD@8ohm) 80
Power Output Per Channel (1kHz@8ohm) 110
Power Output Per Channel (1kHz@6ohm) 125

Ok, my front left and right speakers are (nominal impedance) 6 Ohms speakers, rated at 130 Watts max input power; so is my receiver powering them at 80, 100, 0r 125 Watts? Thanks everybody.

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post #358 of 409 Old 05-28-2011, 04:13 AM - Thread Starter
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You are oversimplifying it, I think.

With a 1 khz signal, you get 125 watts, with one or two channels driven (into 6 ohms.) But that number is pointless, because you don't know what the distortion was present at that output level. Probably like 1% THD, the threshold of audible distortion. With a movie playing, where all channels are playing at the same time, you don't know. It will be less, though.

Call it an 80 watt / channel receiver, because that power rating is measured full bandwidth into 8 ohms. Maybe a bit more because of the 6 ohm load. Then lower that for movies a bit, as it can't push that kind of power into all channels at the same time (while realizing it won't have to, but it's probably not a heavy weight among receivers.)

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post #359 of 409 Old 05-31-2011, 07:38 AM
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Thanks for the reply, MichaelJHuman. I figured I was probably oversimplifying things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

You are oversimplifying it, I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

With a 1 khz signal, you get 125 watts, with one or two channels driven (into 6 ohms.) But that number is pointless, because you don't know what the distortion was present at that output level. Probably like 1% THD, the threshold of audible distortion. With a movie playing, where all channels are playing at the same time, you don't know. It will be less, though.

To be honest, I have no idea what any of that means. But it doesn't sound like I need to

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Call it an 80 watt / channel receiver, because that power rating is measured full bandwidth into 8 ohms. Maybe a bit more because of the 6 ohm load.

Ok, so if it's an 80 watt receiver and my front speakers are rated at 130 watt maximum input power, are my speakers being underpowered by my receiver? I guess that's really what I'm curious about. How does one determine how expensive of a receiver they require to effectively power their speakers when all of these specifications are seemingly useless?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Then lower that for movies a bit, as it can't push that kind of power into all channels at the same time (while realizing it won't have to, but it's probably not a heavy weight among receivers.)

I'm a little confused by this; how can manufacturers list "power output per channel" if the receiver isn't capable of outputting that much power per channel simultaneously? It's not really per channel then, is it? Thanks again, Michael.

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post #360 of 409 Old 05-31-2011, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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If it was bad to power 130 watt speakers with less than that amount of power, they would fail with no power running through them (think about it

What people mean, when they talk about underpowering speakers is one of two things. If you push the volume of your system too high, and clip the output, that causes a high average power level. You can damage speakers this way. It's less likely to damage speakers with an unclipped signal, as average power is lower. The other way to underpower, is not understood well by me. The theory is that some amps/receivers have enough power on paper to power some speakers to loud levels, but the results are unsatisfactory - perhaps because speakers are reactive, and the amp/receiver runs out of current...

The FTC (Federal Trade Commission,) created a law to dictate how power is specified. For receivers/amps with more than two channels, they have this verbage about 'all associated channels.' That verbage allows manufactures to choose what associated channels means...based on bench tests in reviews, they usually manage to meet rated power with two channels, but usually not with more (see some reviews with bench tests to see what I mean, 5-channel power may be a fair bit below rated power in some cases - 7-channel power may be pathetic for budget models, like 25 watts.)

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