Marantz AV8003 and MM8003 - Page 15 - AVS Forum
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post #421 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 05:16 PM
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The English manual link (or the PDF data itself) seems to be broken. My French is fair, but rather than try to read the whole manual in a second language, I thought I'd ask a couple of questions to those who might be able to answer.

I have an Oppo 980 (DVD-Audio and SACD), a Toshiba HD-A2 (HD-DVD), a FIOS DVR, a D*TV DVR (yes, I have both services), a Pioneer Elite DVR-7000 DVD recorder and a Pioneer laser disc player. I will be getting a BD player a short time after I get my new pre/pro (probably the AV8003). I also have a Mac that I want to connect via DVI.

So I'll have 6 digital video sources (5 HDMI + 1 DVI) and three analog video sources to connect to the AV8003.

I plan on getting a Marantz VS3002 to increase the digital input capability of the AV8003.

I want to be able to use the RC2001 to select a source connected to the VS3002 and have the display on the AV8003 show it's name. For example, if I select the HD-DVD player, I want to see "HD-DVD" displayed on the front of the receiver. For those with access to the English manual, can this be done?

Also, the manual for the VS3002 is a little confusing. If you connect the VS3002's remote jack cables to the AV8003, why do you need to activate the Link function?

Steven
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post #422 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by facke02 View Post

What about OSD over HDMI? If I read the manual correctly it doesn't support it.

See page 21.

To view the onscreen displays, make certain you
have connected the MONITOR OUT jack on the rear
panel to the composite, S-Video, component video
or HDMI input of your TV or projector.

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post #423 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

See page 21.

To view the onscreen displays, make certain you
have connected the MONITOR OUT jack on the rear
panel to the composite, S-Video, component video
or HDMI input of your TV or projector.

I must be reading this wrong...

Page 34:

OSD information is not output to Monitor Output
of HDMI and Component Video. However, OSD
information is output if the Video Convert function
is used to output Video or S-Video video signals to
Monitor Out of HDMI and Component Video.
For details, refer toVIDEO CONVERTon page 40.

Page 41:

Notes of OSD menu system:

The setup menu can be displayed through all
video out terminals (HDMI, COMPONENT,
SVIDEO and VIDEO).
OSD information is output only to the VIDEO and
S-VIDEO MONITOR OUT terminals.
OSD information is also output when the video
conversion feature is on and the video signal input
to the VIDEO or S-VIDEO input jack of the unit
is converted and output from the COMPONENT
VIDEO or HDMI MONITOR OUT terminals.


Ken
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post #424 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

Not as far as I can tell. The Marantz will output digital sources to zones A and B. And "Nettune?" Since when did Nettune support video streaming? Not to mention the two devices use different scalers.

Page 67 of the manual:
"ZONE output is analog only. Digital signal input is
not supported."

The japanese version of Nettune 3.0 does support video and jpeg. The onkyo device that uses it is NC-501V.

Other than the scaler and the back panel design, I can't see many other differences. The bi-amplification scheme of using the rear back channels is also an Onkyo signature. Don't get me wrong, I really don't care who makes the unit, as long as it performs, but why on earth put dual HDMI outputs on the unit and have only one active? Not being able to output digital to zone 2 is also retarded.
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post #425 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

Not as far as I can tell. The Marantz will output digital sources to zones A and B. And "Nettune?" Since when did Nettune support video streaming? Not to mention the two devices use different scalers.

I asked Richard that today he said zones 2 and 3 are analog not digital

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post #426 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 06:33 PM
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Anyone know if 1080p24 passthrough is supported? I don't see it in the manual.

From what I can tell, the VP supports only analog -> HDMI conversion, and limited transcoding for aspect ratio and resolution, and both have THROUGH settings, which (hopefully) get the video processor out of the way. Does anyone know the ABT chip well enough to say what it is likely doing in THROUGH mode?


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post #427 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 06:47 PM
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It also looks as if Audyssey is not available with Dolby TrueHD or dts-HD sources. See page 37.

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post #428 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

It also looks as if Audyssey is not available with Dolby TrueHD or dts-HD sources. See page 37.

Do any similar units offer this...e.g., the Integra 9.8 or other?
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post #429 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutterman View Post

Do any similar units offer this...e.g., the Integra 9.8 or other?

AFAIK, yes, depending on the bitrate.

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post #430 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 07:36 PM
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The only place where the Integra 9.8 falls down on Audyssey is with 192khz (or 176.4khz) source material. It will not apply audyssey to that, regardless if its PCM or otherwise.

But with 96khz, 88.2 khz etc, Audyssey works fine even with 7.1 sources (on the Integra).

This new Marantz is clearly not a rebranded integra, there are many key differences. The Marantz supports HDCD decoding, the Integra does not, this almost certainly means different dacs as well. The Marantz supports digital music from an ethernet port, the Integra does not. The marantz has a different video processor, probably a better one for SD-DVD upconversion than the Integras. The Marantz only has Audyssey MultEQ, while the Integra has MultEQXT room correction (MultEQXT uses more measuring points and higher resolution filters). The marantz doesn't appear to apply audyssey to the new high defintion audio codecs from Dolby or DTS (if this is true its a major problem in my mind).


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post #431 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 08:01 PM
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Richard has stated the Marantz supports MultiEQXT. Now if it does not support this in conjunction with the high bitrate codecs I think I would consider this to be a real deficit.

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post #432 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krassyg View Post

Page 67 of the manual:
"ZONE output is analog only. Digital signal input is
not supported."

The japanese version of Nettune 3.0 does support video and jpeg. The onkyo device that uses it is NC-501V.

Other than the scaler and the back panel design, I can't see many other differences. The bi-amplification scheme of using the rear back channels is also an Onkyo signature. Don't get me wrong, I really don't care who makes the unit, as long as it performs, but why on earth put dual HDMI outputs on the unit and have only one active? Not being able to output digital to zone 2 is also retarded.

I understand that zone OUTPUT is analog only, but if you look at page 66 it shows examples of selecting DVD as a zone input. There is also a mention earlier in the manual that DTS is not supported for Zone outputs. Now why would they say that if no other digital sources are supported?

What does biamping have anything to do with an AVP? There are no amps.

As far as Net-Tune - it appears to be an obsolete proprietary protocol requiring dedicated (and really bad) Windows-only server software (NetTune Control) - I didn't see any indication that it supports DLNA (which the Marantz does), although I can't read Japanese. Onkyo IS starting to sell DLNA devices like the BR-NX8, but what that has to do with this Marantz unit is hard to say. There are many sources for this tech.

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post #433 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

Richard has stated the Marantz supports MultiEQXT.

Then why the limit on 6 measurement positions? If this is MultEQxt, it is a new variant.

Kal Rubinson

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post #434 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by facke02 View Post

I must be reading this wrong...

Page 34:

OSD information is not output to Monitor Output
of HDMI and Component Video. However, OSD
information is output if the Video Convert function
is used to output Video or S-Video video signals to
Monitor Out of HDMI and Component Video.
For details, refer toVIDEO CONVERTon page 40.

Page 41:

Notes of OSD menu system:

The setup menu can be displayed through all
video out terminals (HDMI, COMPONENT,
SVIDEO and VIDEO).
OSD information is output only to the VIDEO and
S-VIDEO MONITOR OUT terminals.
OSD information is also output when the video
conversion feature is on and the video signal input
to the VIDEO or S-VIDEO input jack of the unit
is converted and output from the COMPONENT
VIDEO or HDMI MONITOR OUT terminals.


Looks to me like you can upconvert the OSD so you can display it over HDMI.

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post #435 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Then why the limit on 6 measurement positions? If this is MultEQxt, it is a new variant.

That is definitely an inconsistency. The manual seems to be written for MultiEQ.

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post #436 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 08:34 PM
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I realize nothing is going to have it all..and that choosing gear is usually a matter of trade-offs...but in this case, it's starting to look like those choices are going be be pretty tough to make. Not seeing too many competing alternatives out there at this (or really any other) price point.
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post #437 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 08:48 PM
 
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Actually I'm wrong they aren't using XT, sorry for the confusion.

Richard
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post #438 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 09:57 PM
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I have a tonn of questions, but need to read more Manual.
So, in a Feature page 2 it says it decode all formats, like DD, DD EX and so on and compatable with Dolby True HD and DTS-HD.
Does it mean it won't decode it? All decoding will be done in Blue ray palyer?

Same page: "Furthemore, the unit can output the OSD information through the Y/C (S-video) and composite video."
I saw on another page that it can do OSD through HDMI as well, but nothing on that page.
Thanks
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post #439 of 3466 Old 05-20-2008, 10:38 PM
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Check out the notes on the surround mode handling on p42:
Quote:


  • Surround modes other than Stereo are not available
    during Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, or DTSHD
    playback.
  • If surround modes other than Stereo are selected
    and Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, or DTSHD
    content is played, the surround mode setting is
    disabled.

I read this to mean that matrix processing of any kind is not available with HBR formats. Looking more closely at the table, that appears to be true. THX mode does not list support for any HBR, and DPLIIx does not show rear channel matrix support on TrueHD. Same for DTS.

This, combined with Kal's observation on Audessy not being available on HBR codecs, is suggesting that the DSP being used simply has insufficient compute power to support all the surround modes and EQ with HBR sources.

These restrictions were ringing a bell for me based on another thread, so I went back to do some research....

Checking the Marantz SR8002 manual, it shows exactly these same restrictions for both surround modes with HBR and for Audyssey with HBR.

A side by side comparison of the SR8002 and AV8003 surround mode tables shows what looks to me like an exact match.

So I hypothesize that Marantz used the same DSP architecture for the AV8003 as it used in the SR8002. This may also explain why they were able to get to market more quickly than most...

This is a big caveat for anyone who cares about rear matrix, Audyssey or THX support for HBR formats.


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post #440 of 3466 Old 05-21-2008, 01:52 AM
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very strange I must say these limitations with the marantz especially since not limitations with the denon or onkyo / integra eqivalents with even those brands avrs having the capabilty.

anyways if the case, still quite an affordable option the new marantz pre-pro as with their new avrs. guess something had to give as a result of the pricing.

"Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."



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post #441 of 3466 Old 05-21-2008, 02:02 AM
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It also looks from the manual like the 8003 has only a single selectable crossover frequency, i.e. you can either accept the MultEQ crossover value, which may be different for each speaker, or you can choose another value from the HPF/LPF menu item - but there seems to be only one. If you choose it, then it looks like all your "small" speakers must share the same crossover value. Is that right?
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post #442 of 3466 Old 05-21-2008, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Check out the notes on the surround mode handling on p42:

I read this to mean that matrix processing of any kind is not available with HBR formats. Looking more closely at the table, that appears to be true. THX mode does not list support for any HBR, and DPLIIx does not show rear channel matrix support on TrueHD. Same for DTS.

This, combined with Kal's observation on Audessy not being available on HBR codecs, is suggesting that the DSP being used simply has insufficient compute power to support all the surround modes and EQ with HBR sources.

These restrictions were ringing a bell for me based on another thread, so I went back to do some research....

Checking the Marantz SR8002 manual, it shows exactly these same restrictions for both surround modes with HBR and for Audyssey with HBR.

A side by side comparison of the SR8002 and AV8003 surround mode tables shows what looks to me like an exact match.

So I hypothesize that Marantz used the same DSP architecture for the AV8003 as it used in the SR8002. This may also explain why they were able to get to market more quickly than most...

This is a big caveat for anyone who cares about rear matrix, Audyssey or THX support for HBR formats.

If this is correct (I have no reason to doubt it), then it is a deal breaker for me...

Wyatt
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post #443 of 3466 Old 05-21-2008, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

very strange I must say these limitations with the marantz especially since not limitations with the denon or onkyo / integra eqivalents with even those brands avrs having the capabilty.

anyways if the case, still quite an affordable option the new marantz pre-pro as with their new avrs. guess something had to give as a result of the pricing.

It is a nice unit, but for me the lack of Audessy in HBR modes is a killer. Looks like the wait is on for a while longer,

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post #444 of 3466 Old 05-21-2008, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyzziks View Post

It also looks from the manual like the 8003 has only a single selectable crossover frequency. Is that right?

The manual certainly reads that way to me too.


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post #445 of 3466 Old 05-21-2008, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Check out the notes on the surround mode handling on p42:

I read this to mean that matrix processing of any kind is not available with HBR formats. Looking more closely at the table, that appears to be true. THX mode does not list support for any HBR, and DPLIIx does not show rear channel matrix support on TrueHD. Same for DTS.

This, combined with Kal's observation on Audessy not being available on HBR codecs, is suggesting that the DSP being used simply has insufficient compute power to support all the surround modes and EQ with HBR sources.

These restrictions were ringing a bell for me based on another thread, so I went back to do some research....

Checking the Marantz SR8002 manual, it shows exactly these same restrictions for both surround modes with HBR and for Audyssey with HBR.

A side by side comparison of the SR8002 and AV8003 surround mode tables shows what looks to me like an exact match.

So I hypothesize that Marantz used the same DSP architecture for the AV8003 as it used in the SR8002. This may also explain why they were able to get to market more quickly than most...

This is a big caveat for anyone who cares about rear matrix, Audyssey or THX support for HBR formats.


The way I read this is that if you select a surround mode like a Cinema mode or THX mode or something like that for a Dolby True HD or DTS HD soundtrack that it will then default to stereo. If you select Auto or Direct then it processes is as the intended Dolby True HD or DTS HD. At least that's the way it appears to be supported on the matrix to me. It sure would be easier if they just put these all formats (including Dolby True HD and DTS HD) in all the matrixes, even if there is no processing.

Am I right in my interpretation?

I guess I am one of the lucky ones in that the room EQ doesn't carry a lot of weight for my decision. Fortunately I've had my room worked on and acoustically certified.

I am surprised that it won't output from both HDMI outputs at the same time, as well as it seems it won't upscale anything from the HDMI inputs (for example it won't scale a 720P input into a 1080P output). Again - that's how I am reading it. Right now I don't think that's a deal-breaker for me, but I am surprised.

Dave
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post #446 of 3466 Old 05-21-2008, 08:54 AM
 
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I WAS told it added upscaling.

Richard
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post #447 of 3466 Old 05-21-2008, 09:15 AM
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It seems it will upscale the analog inputs, just not the digital video inputs:

Page 34 from the manual

Notes:
• The resolution cannot be changed when the input
video signal is 720p or 1080i.


It would be nice if I am wrong.

Dave
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post #448 of 3466 Old 05-21-2008, 09:17 AM
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I just got the word that it will come in early june in sweden. Got the price of $6000 there too. So I'm definetly getting this combo now.

My Home Cinema:


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post #449 of 3466 Old 05-21-2008, 10:44 AM
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Hmm. With these specifications it seems that by using the SR8002 as a pre/pro and an amplifier will be a better option that this combo, unless you really need video upscaling...

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I wonder if that's some sort of manual misprint, the section that indicates that Audyssey is not available for Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD and Dolby Plus modes. It seems an odd limitation, I've not seen that on other receievers or prepros.

Other than that the Marantz looks great, even with only MultEQ rather than MultEQXT I think I would prefer it to the Integra, if the marantz does provide Audyssey processing for the new hidef audio formats that is.

If Audyssey is indeed disabled on those formats, it's a total deal breaker fo rme.


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