Official Classe SSP-800 thread. - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 5853 Old 12-13-2008, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sikoniko View Post

I've been speaking to some people (off the boards) about EQ lately, to better understand the whole craze. I am finding there are 2 strong sides... those that believe in Auto-EQ, and those that do not.

The funny thing is, I find that the majority of people on boards like this believe in auto-eq, while professional acousticians and engineers, who make their living off of designing rooms for high levels of sound quality, are falling into a less is more attitude.

EQ is not the panecea that people make it to be. It has its place - but should not be considered as the defining feature that makes a product good or bad.

I'd recommend speaking to a pro, instead of putting your faith in people that probably have as much knowledge of EQ as you or I and simply use it because they read in a magazine that they need it...

you only say that because your pride and joy doesnt have audyssey eq on board

Personally I wouldnt buy an av pre-pro without audyssey on board. Utilisign audyssey has taken my system to a whole another level and producing a result leaving me astonished and gobsmacked !. I wouldnt give it up for the world !

any pro worth his salt will tell you 4 bands of parametric eq does not equal whats possible with audyssey multi eq

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post #542 of 5853 Old 12-13-2008, 07:34 PM
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I guess having the flexibility is a good thing so I should try a pre/pro with Audyssey MultiEQ XT and see how it works? Any suggestions Kal? What do you think of the Integra DHC 9.9
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post #543 of 5853 Old 12-13-2008, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

I guess having the flexibility is a good thing so I should try a pre/pro with Audyssey MultiEQ XT and see how it works? Any suggestions Kal? What do you think of the Integra DHC 9.9

That is the entry level for it and I use the 9.8 still. Others are the OnkyoPro equivalent, the Denon and upcoming prepros from SimAudio and Parasound. BTW, Anthem's ARC as in the D2 is also recommended highly.

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post #544 of 5853 Old 12-13-2008, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

That is the entry level for it. Others are the OnkyoPro equivalent, the Denon and upcoming prepros from SimAudio and Parasound. BTW, Anthem's ARC as in the D2 is also recommended highly.

Ok I was looking at the Classé SSP-800 as a definitive pre/pro, so I didn't want to spend a fortune since this would be temporary?
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post #545 of 5853 Old 12-13-2008, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

Ok I was looking at the Classé SSP-800 as a definitive pre/pro, so I didn't want to spend a fortune since this would be temporary?

Let's not be so dogmatic about this. There are many features on which to make a purchase decision and EQ, while essential imho, is only one of them. Whether the SSP-800s EQ is good enough depends on what you ask it to do and what you know about using it. It happens to be a rather flexible and useful EQ (on paper) and, depending on your room and your measurement tools, can be very effective. I hope to get one for review soon and, believe me, I am really looking forward to it.

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post #546 of 5853 Old 12-13-2008, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Let's not be so dogmatic about this. There are many features on which to make a purchase decision and EQ, while essential imho, is only one of them. Whether the SSP-800s EQ is good enough depends on what you ask it to do and what you know about using it. It happens to be a rather flexible and useful EQ (on paper) and, depending on your room and your measurement tools, can be very effective. I hope to get one for review soon and, believe me, I am really looking forward to it.

I can't wait until you review the SSP-800 it will be very interesting to read your perspective
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post #547 of 5853 Old 12-14-2008, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

you only say that because your pride and joy doesnt have audyssey eq on board

lemming.

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Personally I wouldnt buy an av pre-pro without audyssey on board. Utilisign audyssey has taken my system to a whole another level and producing a result leaving me astonished and gobsmacked !. I wouldnt give it up for the world !

any pro worth his salt will tell you 4 bands of parametric eq does not equal whats possible with audyssey multi eq

well.. its not 4 bands. Its 5 bands per channel. So if you have a 7 channel system with 2 subs, its 45 bands.

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post #548 of 5853 Old 12-14-2008, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I do not dispute anything you say but would like to point out that the pros have a vested interest in demeaning consumer EQ. Of course, a pro can do a better job and, yes, physical acoustical design and treatment is preferable. However, while "EQ is not the panecea that people make it to be. It has its place. " It does, especially for those who eschew room treatments or hiring a pro.

IMO we have a line drawn in the sand between those who like automatedEQ and those who do not. They all agree on the necessity and value of EQ - just not the method of implementation.

I think of it this way... you have your early adopters and your people that will wait it out until it gets more mature. There are still people out there that refuse to buy Blu-Ray. At some point there will be enough middle ground that everybody will be on board, but until that point, there will always be holdouts.

The Classe product is not for everyone. The funny thing is, they realize this. They aren't trying to appeal to the mass market. Anybody who has met and spoken to the people from Classe can tell that they know what they are talking about and they don't make hasty decisions.

btw, should I consider you as a source? do you have an agenda to sell magazines and not undermine sponsors? everybody has an opinion. its each individual to decide how we weight that opinion. btw, thats not an attack or meant to be in a defensive tone. casual conversation since this board cant translate tone.

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post #549 of 5853 Old 12-14-2008, 06:20 AM
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Can anybody say how would an acoustic engineer set about the job of adjusting the room EQ of the ssp-800.
My own guess is he will start measuring the frequency response of the room
for each loudspeaker with the help of a SLP-meter and testtone generator.
Then correcting for the peaks and dips of the spectrum by adjusting parameters of the EQ. Is there much more to it than that?

I wonder why Classe doesn't give a "recipe" for the procedure in their manual.
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post #550 of 5853 Old 12-14-2008, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sikoniko View Post

btw, should I consider you as a source? do you have an agenda to sell magazines and not undermine sponsors? everybody has an opinion. its each individual to decide how we weight that opinion. btw, thats not an attack or meant to be in a defensive tone. casual conversation since this board cant translate tone.

I fully agree. While I contend that I have no agenda other than being honest based upon my observations, we all have some subconscious bias. In my case, it has little or nothing to do with commercial considerations, as far as I am consciously aware.

OTOH, the point I was making, and to which you are responding, is that even professionals should not be given a pass and their opinions accepted at face value.

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post #551 of 5853 Old 12-14-2008, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SheerLuck Holmes View Post

Can anybody say how would an acoustic engineer set about the job of adjusting the room EQ of the ssp-800.
My own guess is he will start measuring the frequency response of the room
for each loudspeaker with the help of a SLP-meter and testtone generator.
Then correcting for the peaks and dips of the spectrum by adjusting parameters of the EQ. Is there much more to it than that?

I wonder why Classe doesn't give a "recipe" for the procedure in their manual.

The reason is that there is more to it than that. For the midrange/treble, this may do but the most pernicious effects of room modes are in the time domain and in the bass. The measurements need to include the decay times for the peaks and nulls and they need to be measured at multiple positions in the room. Then one needs to create filters with the appropriate parameters in frequency, magnitude and Q to correct the problems.

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post #552 of 5853 Old 12-14-2008, 12:04 PM
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Just in case you are wondering it looks like Classé might also stop making DVD players They are offering 25% off to who buys the SSP-800
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post #553 of 5853 Old 12-16-2008, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SheerLuck Holmes View Post

Can anybody say how would an acoustic engineer set about the job of adjusting the room EQ of the ssp-800.
My own guess is he will start measuring the frequency response of the room
for each loudspeaker with the help of a SLP-meter and testtone generator.
Then correcting for the peaks and dips of the spectrum by adjusting parameters of the EQ. Is there much more to it than that?

I wonder why Classe doesn't give a "recipe" for the procedure in their manual.

The process for calibrating speakers to a room would entail using a tone generator or software that can output frequency sweeps and specific frequencies, analyzing it with a real time spectrum analyzer and then adjusting an eq, preferably a precision 1/3 octave, to attain the flattest frequency response possible out of the speakers. This is how you would calibrate professional monitors in a studio to get a neutral sound for mixing. The problem with this is that not everybody likes that sound, some people like more bass and some like more mids etc. So while auto eq will adjust your frequency response of the system it doesn't guarantee that you will like it. More than likely it's adding some low end and boosting around 4-5k to get a more open sound which is what most people like. I have the auto eq on my receiver and actually prefer to set it up myself manually allowing my ears to judge what sounds best, and not a chip inside the processor, but then again I'm studying to be a mixing engineer so I may just like the control of doing it myself.
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post #554 of 5853 Old 12-16-2008, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by xtrmspl View Post

The process for calibrating speakers to a room would entail using a tone generator or software that can output frequency sweeps and specific frequencies, analyzing it with a real time spectrum analyzer and then adjusting an eq, preferably a precision 1/3 octave, to attain the flattest frequency response possible out of the speakers. This is how you would calibrate professional monitors in a studio to get a neutral sound for mixing. The problem with this is that not everybody likes that sound, some people like more bass and some like more mids etc. So while auto eq will adjust your frequency response of the system it doesn't guarantee that you will like it. More than likely it's adding some low end and boosting around 4-5k to get a more open sound which is what most people like. I have the auto eq on my receiver and actually prefer to set it up myself manually allowing my ears to judge what sounds best, and not a chip inside the processor, but then again I'm studying to be a mixing engineer so I may just like the control of doing it myself.

Ummm. No time domain measurements to see the effects of room modes? A flat FR is not the holy grail.

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post #555 of 5853 Old 12-16-2008, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Ummm. No time domain measurements to see the effects of room modes? A flat FR is not the holy grail.

A flat frequency response is not the holy grail to you, but it is for some people and applications. That is the point I was making with auto eq, it's not going to satisfy everybody's taste. For the average person that is confused by the complexities of equalizing, it is a solution and better than nothing. This is why there are so many different speaker manufactures; each with their own sound which people like. Same goes for equalizing, some will like auto and some prefer to do it manually. At the end of the day it's whatever YOU feel sounds the best.
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post #556 of 5853 Old 12-16-2008, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Ummm. No time domain measurements to see the effects of room modes? A flat FR is not the holy grail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrmspl View Post

A flat frequency response is not the holy grail to you, but it is for some people and applications.

That is not the point I was making. I agree that a flat frequency response (or nearly flat) is an appropriate goal but that it is an insufficient accomplishment if one does not elimnate/minimise the nulls/modes imposed on the sound by the room dimension. This cannot be accomplished with just amplitude/frequency measurements and compensation.

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post #557 of 5853 Old 12-16-2008, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

That is not the point I was making. I agree that a flat frequency response (or nearly flat) is an appropriate goal but that it is an insufficient accomplishment if one does not elimnate/minimise the nulls/modes imposed on the sound by the room dimension. This cannot be accomplished with just amplitude/frequency measurements and compensation.

OOC, does this apply if your concern is only for one listening position? Or only if you are trying to accomodate multiple locations within the room?

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post #558 of 5853 Old 12-16-2008, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by sikoniko View Post

OOC, does this apply if your concern is only for one listening position? Or only if you are trying to accomodate multiple locations within the room?

Doesn't matter unless there's single spot in your room where all the room modes are benign. First, you would have to measure to know it. Second, you would have to keep your head in a vise in order to listen (with one ear) and stray.

BTW, in order to competently measure those modes, you need more than one mic position. Most decent measurement systems can accommodate that.

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post #559 of 5853 Old 12-17-2008, 02:29 PM
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Firmware 1.0.1 has been released.
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post #560 of 5853 Old 12-17-2008, 05:05 PM
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Firmware 1.0.1 has been released.

For the SSP-800?
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post #561 of 5853 Old 12-17-2008, 07:17 PM
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For the SSP-800?

Yes
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post #562 of 5853 Old 12-17-2008, 07:21 PM
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Yes

What does it do?
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post #563 of 5853 Old 12-17-2008, 07:42 PM
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What does it do?

Here is the link

http://www.classeaudio.com/downloads...-800_1.0.1.pdf
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post #564 of 5853 Old 12-17-2008, 09:41 PM
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Thanks, potential loss of HDMi!!
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post #565 of 5853 Old 12-18-2008, 09:33 AM
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Looks like they may have rushed it out too quick.
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post #566 of 5853 Old 12-18-2008, 09:59 AM
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Could be ? Who knows
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post #567 of 5853 Old 12-18-2008, 10:16 AM
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Looks like they may have rushed it out too quick.

They did.

For those of you who have the Sony BDP-S550, do NOT upgrade the firmware to 1.0.1 yet. There is a problem that causes a loss of all audio for blu-ray discs that have Dolby Digital (core or TrueHD). blu-ray discs with DTS, DTS-HD (and MA), and PCM work fine however. CDs and DVDs also work fine. I've experienced this issue, and there is another owner with the BDP-S550 who also reported the same.

Apparently, the PS3 and Denon still work fine.
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post #568 of 5853 Old 12-22-2008, 05:12 PM
 
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The Classe product is not for everyone. The funny thing is, they realize this. They aren't trying to appeal to the mass market. Anybody who has met and spoken to the people from Classe can tell that they know what they are talking about and they don't make hasty decisions.

Since the SSP-900 failed they had to rush the SSP-800 to market and we see a lack of most options that are available on receivers and other processors for a lot less money.
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post #569 of 5853 Old 12-22-2008, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DougWinsor View Post

Since the SSP-900 failed they had to rush the SSP-800 to market and we see a lack of most options that are available on receivers and other processors for a lot less money.

The Ferrari F40 doesn't come with air conditioning, a stereo, or power windows. That doesn't make it a lesser car than a Honda that does. You can also buy a Nissan 350ZX and modify it to out-accelerate a Porsche, but it will never be a Porsche.

If the Classe SSP-800 does not line up with your values, don't buy it, but don't expect everyone else to share your point of view.
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post #570 of 5853 Old 12-22-2008, 05:50 PM
 
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The Ferrari F40 doesn't come with air conditioning, a stereo, or power windows. That doesn't make it a lesser car than a Honda that does. You can also buy a Nissan 350ZX and modify it to out-accelerate a Porsche, but it will never be a Porsche.

Irrelevant comments as usual.
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