Official Classe SSP-800 thread. - Page 31 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 4Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #901 of 5913 Old 03-10-2009, 08:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
hifisponge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 7,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Roger -

Good points. I guess I didn't think that through. Its been a while since I did my set-up. I'll have to fool around with it again and report back.
hifisponge is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #902 of 5913 Old 03-10-2009, 09:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Arnies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok Transporter 3 is in 7.1 DTS Master audio. I have a 7.1 system. What should I set the 800 to to get the best sound? Discrete or DTS NEO Cinema ES? I think Discrete is the way to go since I would set the sound output from my Pan BD55 to DTS Master audio correct? Thanks in advance
Arnies is offline  
post #903 of 5913 Old 03-10-2009, 09:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,990
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 845 Post(s)
Liked: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnies View Post

Ok Transporter 3 is in 7.1 DTS Master audio. I have a 7.1 system. What should I set the 800 to to get the best sound? Discrete or DTS NEO Cinema ES? I think Discrete is the way to go since I would set the sound output from my Pan BD55 to DTS Master audio correct? Thanks in advance

Until the SSP-800 has internal HD decoders, you need to tell the BD player to output PCM. With 7.1 PCM coming in, I doubt you'll have the option to activate Neo:6, as that works on 2/5.1 signals.

Deadwood Atmos theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
Roger Dressler is online now  
post #904 of 5913 Old 03-11-2009, 04:35 AM
Senior Member
 
Arnies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am outputting PCM. I normally use post processing to get 7.1 from 5.1 BD discs, But if the BD is 7.1 I will set my PAN 55 to DTS MAster HD. I set the 800 to discrete correct?

Thanks
Arnies is offline  
post #905 of 5913 Old 03-11-2009, 06:25 AM
Newbie
 
sargebuckey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Elmwood Park, IL
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Interesting because I have my main channels connected via XLR and the sub via RCA and when I use the internal test tones, the difference in output between these two connection types (XLR is like 6dB louder) is not compensated for in the test tones. So if I level match using the internal test tones, my sub is 6dB too low. I use a test disc now to set levels.

I spent about two hours last night trying figure it out. My findings confirmed what I stated yesterday: Classe internal test tones are not precise. I'll provide detailed figures. I have CA-3200 and CA-2100 connected through balanced cables and my SVS sub through RCA. I activated cable input to get an active signal and lowered all speakers' levels down, as it was too loud and I wanted to start from scratch. I configured speakers' sound levels back to recommended 75 db and ended up with below:
FL -8.5
FR -7.5
C -6.5
SL -10
SR -13
SW -4.5
I tried to watch Alien vs. Predator, as this movie is full of effects, surrond action and deep bass. With Classe internal tones movie sounded lifeless. I couldn't stand it, so I whipped out my trusted Audio/Video essentials disk and repeated the whole process again. I ended up with:
FL +5
FR +6
C +5.5
SL -1
SR -3
SW +15
If someone can explain that be my guest. It defies logic. Anyway, I put Alien vs. Predator movie on, again. Now I was in business. DTS-MA soundtrack was excellent and it sounded like it should outputted through $8000 high end processor.
To find a workaround these weird settings I just backed all channels down by 10db and ended up with:
FL -5
FR -4
C -4.5
SL -11
SR -13
SW +5
I checked the movie again and all dynamics, channel separation and sound quality were preserved. I wouldn't call it an ideal solution, as it requires committed person to go through all of these steps. Luckily, HT/music is my hobby, so I kind of enjoyed the whole process.
My only concern is the issue of channels output mismatch. Is it caused by irregular voltage on the output channels (defective unit) or is it one little variable that I happen to miss out on?
The only other thing I can think of is to try internal channel levels with the active audio source different than cable, which outputted stereo sound at the moment of my configuration (I turned on one of the HBO channels), which was up-mixed to my favorite two-channel sound processing for Cable (Dolby Surrond PLIIx).
I also tried to call Classe and ended up leaving voice message, as nobody was available.
sargebuckey is offline  
post #906 of 5913 Old 03-11-2009, 07:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sikoniko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sargebuckey View Post

I spent about two hours last night trying figure it out. My findings confirmed what I stated yesterday: Classe internal test tones are not precise. I'll provide detailed figures. I have CA-3200 and CA-2100 connected through balanced cables and my SVS sub through RCA. I activated cable input to get an active signal and lowered all speakers' levels down, as it was too loud and I wanted to start from scratch. I configured speakers' sound levels back to recommended 75 db and ended up with below:
FL -8.5
FR -7.5
C -6.5
SL -10
SR -13
SW -4.5
I tried to watch Alien vs. Predator, as this movie is full of effects, surrond action and deep bass. With Classe internal tones movie sounded lifeless. I couldn't stand it, so I whipped out my trusted Audio/Video essentials disk and repeated the whole process again. I ended up with:
FL +5
FR +6
C +5.5
SL -1
SR -3
SW +15
If someone can explain that be my guest. It defies logic. Anyway, I put Alien vs. Predator movie on, again. Now I was in business. DTS-MA soundtrack was excellent and it sounded like it should outputted through $8000 high end processor.
To find a workaround these weird settings I just backed all channels down by 10db and ended up with:
FL -5
FR -4
C -4.5
SL -11
SR -13
SW +5
I checked the movie again and all dynamics, channel separation and sound quality were preserved. I wouldn't call it an ideal solution, as it requires committed person to go through all of these steps. Luckily, HT/music is my hobby, so I kind of enjoyed the whole process.
My only concern is the issue of channels output mismatch. Is it caused by irregular voltage on the output channels (defective unit) or is it one little variable that I happen to miss out on?
The only other thing I can think of is to try internal channel levels with the active audio source different than cable, which outputted stereo sound at the moment of my configuration (I turned on one of the HBO channels), which was up-mixed to my favorite two-channel sound processing for Cable (Dolby Surrond PLIIx).
I also tried to call Classe and ended up leaving voice message, as nobody was available.

I have a very similar setup (except mine is a CA-5100). I'll run through a calibration and see where I am this weekend.

ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you.
sikoniko is offline  
post #907 of 5913 Old 03-11-2009, 11:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
hifisponge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 7,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
sargebucky -

The ratios of your levels virtually mirror mine, and I have experienced the same imbalances in relative levels when using the internal test tones. My subwoofer level is too low, and my surrounds are too high by the same amounts shown in your settings.

I resorted to using a test disc and my ears instead of the internal tones to get things to sound right.
hifisponge is offline  
post #908 of 5913 Old 03-11-2009, 02:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,990
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 845 Post(s)
Liked: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnies View Post

I am outputting PCM. I normally use post processing to get 7.1 from 5.1 BD discs, But if the BD is 7.1 I will set my PAN 55 to DTS MAster HD. I set the 800 to discrete correct?

Thanks

If 7.1 discrete comes into the SSP-800, you will not have an option to apply matrix post-processing, even if you set the favorite processing that way. It cannot upmix a 7.1 signal. You should automatically hear the 7.1 discrete soundtrack.

Deadwood Atmos theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
Roger Dressler is online now  
post #909 of 5913 Old 03-11-2009, 03:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,990
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 845 Post(s)
Liked: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by sargebuckey View Post

I spent about two hours last night trying figure it out. My findings confirmed what I stated yesterday: Classe internal test tones are not precise.

Tell me about the SPL meter. Radio Shack, analog? If so, what weighting did you use? If C, then forget it. Only use A wtg for level tests when using internal noise signals. Any bass variations in the speakers/room will throw off the accuracy if you use C wtg.

If you get the same readings with A as C (or very close), then you have very uniform bass response, and then either wtg is OK to use.

ETA: And when it comes to calibrating a subwoofer, these methods are not very precise--there's just too many variables involved. However, the readings are repeatable, so once you have your sub gain dialed in the way you like, it's good to take a reading of say, L/R chs vs sub from your handy test signal or test disc (yes, here you use C wtg), and save that info for later ref. If things seemed to have changed audibly, you can do this litmus test to see if the sub level shifted. It's a good sanity check.

Deadwood Atmos theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
Roger Dressler is online now  
post #910 of 5913 Old 03-11-2009, 03:16 PM
wse
AVS Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 7,045
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 583 Post(s)
Liked: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by sargebuckey View Post

I spent about two hours last night trying figure it out. My findings confirmed what I stated yesterday: Classe internal test tones are not precise. I'll provide detailed figures. I have CA-3200 and CA-2100 connected through balanced cables and my SVS sub through RCA. I activated cable input to get an active signal and lowered all speakers' levels down, as it was too loud and I wanted to start from scratch. I configured speakers' sound levels back to recommended 75 db and ended up with below:
FL -8.5
FR -7.5
C -6.5
SL -10
SR -13
SW -4.5
I tried to watch Alien vs. Predator, as this movie is full of effects, surrond action and deep bass. With Classe internal tones movie sounded lifeless. I couldn't stand it, so I whipped out my trusted Audio/Video essentials disk and repeated the whole process again. I ended up with:
FL +5
FR +6
C +5.5
SL -1
SR -3
SW +15
If someone can explain that be my guest. It defies logic.
I also tried to call Classe and ended up leaving voice message, as nobody was available.


Not surprising, once Classé release the upgraded SSP-800 I will have it professionally calibrated I thought it was 85db not 75?
wse is offline  
post #911 of 5913 Old 03-11-2009, 03:19 PM
wse
AVS Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 7,045
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 583 Post(s)
Liked: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnies View Post

I am not using any crossovers in the SSP at all. All my speakers run full range. I have Infinity Compositions with built in 12" subs in the bass. My center speaker is CLR Definitive Techonogy. My 4 surrounds are the large dipole Definitive Technology. The only cross over I use is in Fathoms. I have all separate Hafler amps. As long as you are not using double crossover than that probably is not his problem. I like full range speakers that way none of the sound is diverted to the subs.

Classé with Definitive technology that is really overkill You need an upgrade on your speakers 800D or Linn Klimax?
wse is offline  
post #912 of 5913 Old 03-11-2009, 03:25 PM
wse
AVS Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 7,045
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 583 Post(s)
Liked: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wallace View Post

And just to clarify my point, a cable box audio signal is compressed relative to blu-ray but should still be capable of rocking the house with bass. I have the same HD DVR as Morty with two JL f113's and I have most of the Star Wars movies in hi-def on it, and they have massive bass. So it is still a mystery. I just spoke with Tom @ Classe and was reminded again about why they are such a cool company; they really are concerned about these issues and determined to solve them. No passing of blame, just a "how can we get this solved" attitude. Can't ask for more than that.


Why not put the sub linked together as one master one slave that way you have only one output from Classé I guess I am glad I waited to hear that all is resolved. Spring is here hopefully the release of the new chip will be soon.

Tom is a great guy hope they pay him well and don't have downsizing like every body else!
wse is offline  
post #913 of 5913 Old 03-11-2009, 08:36 PM
Senior Member
 
Arnies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Classé with Definitive technology that is really overkill You need an upgrade on your speakers 800D or Linn Klimax?

I have the large Definitve Techs The Center has a built in active 10" sub The 4 surrounds each have 4 eight inch woofers and 2 one inch tweeters and run full range. I am actually thinking of replacing my Infinities with the Mythos which have gotten rave reviews. Linn speakers are great for music but are not dynamic enough for me. I have heard them nice but a little laid back.
Arnies is offline  
post #914 of 5913 Old 03-12-2009, 01:57 AM
Newbie
 
sargebuckey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Elmwood Park, IL
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Tell me about the SPL meter. Radio Shack, analog? If so, what weighting did you use? If C, then forget it. Only use A wtg for level tests when using internal noise signals. Any bass variations in the speakers/room will throw off the accuracy if you use C wtg.

If you get the same readings with A as C (or very close), then you have very uniform bass response, and then either wtg is OK to use.

ETA: And when it comes to calibrating a subwoofer, these methods are not very precise--there's just too many variables involved. However, the readings are repeatable, so once you have your sub gain dialed in the way you like, it's good to take a reading of say, L/R chs vs sub from your handy test signal or test disc (yes, here you use C wtg), and save that info for later ref. If things seemed to have changed audibly, you can do this litmus test to see if the sub level shifted. It's a good sanity check.

Yes, I used Radio Shack meter but digital not analog version and indeed I only tried C weighting. I was always under impression that C weighting should be used in either sound level method but I'll definitely take your advice and try A weighting this weekend.
BTW, I got a call from Classe today. I didn't want to wast their time, as I found the workaround but I told them that they can check this thread for current user issues / opinions.
sargebuckey is offline  
post #915 of 5913 Old 03-12-2009, 02:04 AM
Newbie
 
sargebuckey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Elmwood Park, IL
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Not surprising, once Classé release the upgraded SSP-800 I will have it professionally calibrated I thought it was 85db not 75?

It's funny that you comment on 85db setting. I was under impression that it should be 75db but I increased it to 85db today through my test disk (although it recommends 75db) and it prevented channels from being set too high and forcing backing down 10db manually after the test. This method actually let me to refine some channels more precisely but the difference was minor (only 0.5 db) on the speakers' levels that I felt could be adjusted.
sargebuckey is offline  
post #916 of 5913 Old 03-12-2009, 09:11 AM
Newbie
 
Morty2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sargebuckey - EXCELLENT INPUT - thanks for the idea on shifting everything down 10db I too maxed out my sub setting to +15 before I felt I was nearly there (even though the test tone showed 0.0 attenuation was needed on the sub). By shifting all 7 channels down 5 to 7db, then keeping the bass at +10 or so, I finally found a nice balance. Last night was the first time in 4 months that I finally found reason to smile and could begin to appreciate this piece of hardware.

Obviously, the test tones suck. No matter what I hear to the contrary from Classé. We've proven that with many users here. I think they might have some channel circuit boards with bad chips (or simply incorrect chips) resulting in a 15db loss (or thereabouts) this accounts for the anemic bass experienced by a few, and perhaps the anemic surrounds reported by Owl1 (try the 15db shift game Owl1, and see if that helps). I'm frustrated with myself for not simply cranking this up earlier and listening but I was just faithfully following my little SPL meter and those damned test tones The signal is THERE, and it sounds WONDERFUL - it's just 15db below the rest of the channels

BTW - what test disk' are you guys using, and can you get it a local stores??

This doesn't get us multi-sub users out in the clear totally though (at least those of us with low sub level now) with a 2 mono setting for an extra sub, the SSP automatically attenuates the sub signals by -4.5db with 3 mono set, you go down 7db (this according to Classé) so if I try the proper hookup for multi subs, I'd have to revise the 15db game to be a 19.5db game - but you can't the aux channel setup will not adjust levels for an AUX channel assigned to sub/mono2 or mono3 this is a known problem that Classé says they are working on. The little bar graph will happily move from +15 to -15, but no level change will occur in the test tone OR the real signal level

So I will be getting some good out of that XLR Y-splitter I bought after all by putting both subs to the single sub output channel, and using the 15db game, I really, REALLY was impressed with the performance last night. The internal crossover does a SERIOUSLY better job than the crossovers in my sub (which I apparently never got set properly)

Thanks again Sarge..! I really appreciate it now if we can just convince Classé that there is a real issue with a few units and get them fixed; all will be right with the world..!

Cheers, Mort
Morty2 is offline  
post #917 of 5913 Old 03-12-2009, 01:31 PM
Senior Member
 
Scott Wallace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Why not put the sub linked together as one master one slave that way you have only one output from Classé I guess I am glad I waited to hear that all is resolved. Spring is here hopefully the release of the new chip will be soon.

Tom is a great guy hope they pay him well and don't have downsizing like every body else!

Because the ability to independently EQ each sub for its location as the Classe with its built in parametric EQ and configurable dual sub outputs allows is preferable to one global setting that may not be correct for either. Who knew we'd have these issues?

And correct about Tom, he's a keeper!
Scott Wallace is offline  
post #918 of 5913 Old 03-12-2009, 04:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,990
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 845 Post(s)
Liked: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by sargebuckey View Post

It's funny that you comment on 85db setting. I was under impression that it should be 75db but I increased it to 85db today through my test disk (although it recommends 75db) and it prevented channels from being set too high and forcing backing down 10db manually after the test. This method actually let me to refine some channels more precisely but the difference was minor (only 0.5 db) on the speakers' levels that I felt could be adjusted.

The idea of calibrating a volume control is pretty much useless since no one plays movies at home at reference volume. Is it important to know how many dB away from that your are listening? Having a repeatable setting is indeed nice so you can set it to a known point.

Having said that, however, once things like dynamic volume are engaged, absolute calibration is important so the effects properly track the designed thresholds. Not a problem for SSP-800 at the moment.

I like to set all the trims to 0 dB, turn on the test signal in the L ch, set the master to 70 dB on the SPL meter, then trim the remaining channels. They come out closer to 0dB, making it easier to see which are hot/cold and by how much. Just a psychological thing.

Deadwood Atmos theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
Roger Dressler is online now  
post #919 of 5913 Old 03-12-2009, 08:33 PM
wse
AVS Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 7,045
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 583 Post(s)
Liked: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

The idea of calibrating a volume control is pretty much useless since no one plays movies at home at reference volume. Is it important to know how many dB away from that your are listening? Having a repeatable setting is indeed nice so you can set it to a known point.

Hum, I do especially for action movies I love it when the walls are shaking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Having said that, however, once things like dynamic volume are engaged, absolute calibration is important so the effects properly track the designed thresholds. Not a problem for SSP-800 at the moment.

You are right Classé SSP-800 is lacking so many feature it's becoming a real joke Let's hope they will include with the new codecs, DTS Master Audio Dolby Digital HD, Dolby Digital IIz, Dynamic volume

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I like to set all the trims to 0 dB, turn on the test signal in the L ch, set the master to 70 dB on the SPL meter, then trim the remaining channels. They come out closer to 0dB, making it easier to see which are hot/cold and by how much. Just a psychological thing.

Interesting are you losing dynamic range, I tried that and it sounded horrible
wse is offline  
post #920 of 5913 Old 03-12-2009, 11:36 PM
Member
 
idomeneo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

You are right Classé SSP-800 is lacking so many feature it's becoming a real joke Let's hope they will include with the new codecs, DTS Master Audio Dolby Digital HD, Dolby Digital IIz, Dynamic volume

wettou,

Give it a rest. It has the only feature that really matters and that is great sound quality.

For the last time, the Classe is not about including all the latest gimmicks, it is about producing the best sound.

If you want all of the latest gimmicks, buy a different processor.
idomeneo is offline  
post #921 of 5913 Old 03-12-2009, 11:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,990
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 845 Post(s)
Liked: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Interesting are you losing dynamic range, I tried that and it sounded horrible

How would this affect dynamic range?

Deadwood Atmos theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
Roger Dressler is online now  
post #922 of 5913 Old 03-13-2009, 06:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sikoniko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

You are right Classé SSP-800 is lacking so many feature it's becoming a real joke Let's hope they will include with the new codecs, DTS Master Audio Dolby Digital HD, Dolby Digital IIz, Dynamic volume


A joke for who? You are the only one that complains about it. Everyone that doesn't like the feature set goes and buys another processor and moves on.

ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you.
sikoniko is offline  
post #923 of 5913 Old 03-13-2009, 12:04 PM
Senior Member
 
Scott Wallace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by idomeneo View Post

wettou,

Give it a rest. It has the only feature that really matters and that is great sound quality.

For the last time, the Classe is not about including all the latest gimmicks, it is about producing the best sound.

If you want all of the latest gimmicks, buy a different processor.

Amen, thank you for the sanity check. The number of posts I read (not necessarily here on this thread) with people giving up Proceed AVP2's and the like for a new receiver because it has True HD and DTS HD Master Audio decoding is just gross. Here's what I need my surround processor to do and it ranks above any other possible feature to the point that without it, any other feature is meaningless......SOUND QUALITY. And on this point, the SSP-800 is without peer IMO.

AND....I have done a check of an SSP-600 playing good ole lossy Dolby & DTS and then swapped it out in the same system for an Integra DTC 9.8 playing the same discs with True HD and DTS HD MA sent bitstream over HDMI and it was NOT EVEN CLOSE. The SSP-600 playing back lossy DD & DTS over coax digital blew it away...as it should. Not a swipe at the Integra, which is terrific for the price point.

The point being the true quality always trumps the feature of the month in a product not meant to stand the test of time but rather pack features that seem important at the moment (not that getting hi-res soundtracks isn't important).
Scott Wallace is offline  
post #924 of 5913 Old 03-13-2009, 01:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
hifisponge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 7,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wallace View Post

AND....I have done a check of an SSP-600 playing good ole lossy Dolby & DTS and then swapped it out in the same system for an Integra DTC 9.8 playing the same discs with True HD and DTS HD MA sent bitstream over HDMI and it was NOT EVEN CLOSE. The SSP-600 playing back lossy DD & DTS over coax digital blew it away...as it should. Not a swipe at the Integra, which is terrific for the price point.

I haven't had the opportunity to compare a mid-fi piece to the SSP-800. I'm curious to know how the Classe bettered the Integra. I can say that the SSP-800 sounds at the same time more resolving and less granular than the Lex I owned before it, but how would you describe the differences between the SSP-800 and the Integra?
hifisponge is offline  
post #925 of 5913 Old 03-13-2009, 03:47 PM
 
DougWinsor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Amen, thank you for the sanity check. The number of posts I read (not necessarily here on this thread) with people giving up Proceed AVP2's and the like for a new receiver because it has True HD and DTS HD Master Audio decoding is just gross. Here's what I need my surround processor to do and it ranks above any other possible feature to the point that without it, any other feature is meaningless......SOUND QUALITY. And on this point, the SSP-800 is without peer IMO.

AND....I have done a check of an SSP-600 playing good ole lossy Dolby & DTS and then swapped it out in the same system for an Integra DTC 9.8 playing the same discs with True HD and DTS HD MA sent bitstream over HDMI and it was NOT EVEN CLOSE. The SSP-600 playing back lossy DD & DTS over coax digital blew it away...as it should. Not a swipe at the Integra, which is terrific for the price point.

The point being the true quality always trumps the feature of the month in a product not meant to stand the test of time but rather pack features that seem important at the moment (not that getting hi-res soundtracks isn't important).

Did you do any of this blind or double blind?
DougWinsor is offline  
post #926 of 5913 Old 03-13-2009, 04:47 PM
Senior Member
 
Scott Wallace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougWinsor View Post

Did you do any of this blind or double blind?

Doug, you can't really hook up and unhook up and hook up another component yourself and call it a blind test But I can say you would have to be blind, deaf, and just plain dumb to not tell there was a casm between the two. It was so not even remotely close that blind, doubleblind, all in full view whatever, would not have affected the outcome. The SSP-600 blew it away, despite not having ALMIGHTY DOLBY TRUE HD & DTS HD MASTER AUDIO (ie - the only thing that seems to matter to a certain portion of the surround sound crowd).

hifisponge, to answer your question. When I switched from the 600 to the Integra (after setting up the speakers the same and balancing levels the same, and NOT using the Integra's Audyssey), it felt like all of the life and air and energy that had been present just went away. Frankly it was more of a difference than I expected. I thought that the higher resolution codecs that the 9.8 could decode would make up some of the ground versus the superior overall quality of the SSP-600. But it really didn't. It was a great lesson for me in always being mindful of what really matters, and not getting caught up in hype. An industry icon said once and it really is true, and I'm not getting the quote exactly right, but something along the lines of 'genuine quality always will top something made for the disposable mass-market'. And again, the Integra is a fine product, it just doesn't belong in the same league as the SSP-800. An $8,000 product SHOULD blow away a $2,000 doing the same job.

Some products are years in the making and therefore cannot incorporate something very new to the market (though some have the internal architecture to do so), but they can sound better than something that just is a collection of parts that are designed to do a job. That's what mass market products are - products that use a combination of parts to create a product designed to do a job. Nothing wrong with that. Pieces like the SSP-600 & SSP-800 are works of art designed by those with a passion for performance and every internal component is hand-selected for what it brings to the table. These are pieces that live beyond the "new model every year" type of product.
Scott Wallace is offline  
post #927 of 5913 Old 03-13-2009, 05:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sikoniko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

I haven't had the opportunity to compare a mid-fi piece to the SSP-800. I'm curious to know how the Classe bettered the Integra. I can say that the SSP-800 sounds at the same time more resolving and less granular than the Lex I owned before it, but how would you describe the differences between the SSP-800 and the Integra?

The Integra sounded bright and abrassive to me. Not smooth, transparent and refined like the SSP-800.

ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you.
sikoniko is offline  
post #928 of 5913 Old 03-14-2009, 09:02 AM
wse
AVS Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 7,045
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 583 Post(s)
Liked: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by sikoniko View Post

The Integra sounded bright and abrassive to me. Not smooth, transparent and refined like the SSP-800.

But of course you have to justify spending over $6000 for the Classé understood,

Maybe someone with better objectivity like Kal can tell us his perspective if the Classé is really worth the $6000 additional compared to Integra
wse is offline  
post #929 of 5913 Old 03-14-2009, 09:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sikoniko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

But of course you have to justify spending over $6000 for the Classé understood,

Maybe someone with better objectivity like Kal can tell us his perspective if the Classé is really worth the $6000 additional compared to Integra

Kal is no more objective than any other human. You'll find reason to argue with him too. You've already heard it and said you liked it. What if he doesn't like it? Does that mean you no longer like it? Does your opinion sway on his? Audio is still subjective and based on personal taste.

The first magazine review will be in Absolute Sound in the next issue.

Go buy the Integra and leave the rest of us alone. sell your classe stuff off; I don't understand how you justified ever buying it. You just like to annoy people and ruin it for everyone.

ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you.
sikoniko is offline  
post #930 of 5913 Old 03-14-2009, 10:39 AM
Advanced Member
 
owl1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

But of course you have to justify spending over $6000 for the Classé understood,

That's a joke, right?
owl1 is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Classe

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off