Official Classe SSP-800 thread. - Page 44 - AVS Forum
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post #1291 of 5832 Old 07-20-2009, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

No problem. Just realized that XTZ is a Windows program, and all I own are Macs. Oh well. Guess I'll have to do some more home-schooling on REW.

Macs are allowed in the Redmond city limits???
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post #1292 of 5832 Old 07-20-2009, 04:34 PM
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Macs are allowed in the Redmond city limits???

If you aren't employed by the evil empire they are.
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post #1293 of 5832 Old 07-22-2009, 07:01 AM
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If you aren't employed by the evil empire they are.

you mean it isn't like the borg, where everyone is assimilated?

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post #1294 of 5832 Old 07-22-2009, 07:28 AM
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sikoniko - great quote, had to reread it twice!

Any news on the new DSP board delivery date?
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post #1295 of 5832 Old 07-22-2009, 11:16 AM
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Has anyone directly compared the sound quality of the Multichannel analog input of this processor to the mutichannel HDMI input, using a Pioneer 09 or the new Denon?
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post #1296 of 5832 Old 07-22-2009, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by owl1 View Post

sikoniko - great quote, had to reread it twice!

Any news on the new DSP board delivery date?

thanks. took the liberty of manipulating Mr. Kennedy. I think it is the new credence.

btw, haven't bugged Dave about the DSP lately. I'm sure he'll contact me when there is something to contact about.

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post #1297 of 5832 Old 07-23-2009, 12:44 PM
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Got an E-mail to my question when,, End of summer now. Plus you have to re-program your whole system from scratch when upgraded. Need to be done by dealer the installation of the new board.
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post #1298 of 5832 Old 07-27-2009, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty/twenty View Post

Has anyone directly compared the sound quality of the Multichannel analog input of this processor to the mutichannel HDMI input, using a Pioneer 09 or the new Denon?

Anyone?
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post #1299 of 5832 Old 07-27-2009, 11:48 AM
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I don't, but maybe someone over in the Classe forum on HTGuige does.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=40
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post #1300 of 5832 Old 07-30-2009, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Undeniably. OTOH, those who want a bit more info/control should consider REW. I just wanted to supplement, not supplant, your point.

I'm now enjoying XTZ -- and it is pretty easy to get it going. Just realized that it apparently limits the resolution to "6 points per octave" which is not as fine as Toole/Welti prefer to use. I wonder if it's making things look better than they really are . I posted some plots of my BassQ results here.
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post #1301 of 5832 Old 07-30-2009, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I'm now enjoying XTZ -- and it is pretty easy to get it going. Just realized that it apparently limits the resolution to "6 points per octave" which is not as fine as Toole/Welti prefer to use. I wonder if it's making things look better than they really are . I posted some plots of my BassQ results here.

Yeah. 6pts/8vo is a bit of a compromise but it is balanced by the ease of use. Have you used the new V2 software?

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post #1302 of 5832 Old 07-30-2009, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Have you used the new V2 software?

Yes, that's what it downloaded automatically. I'm looking forward to the full bandwidth "next" version they show here. I wonder when it will be released...

ETA: D'oh, I see that V2 already includes the new "Full Range" features. It's also shown in the online manual, but not in the one that came with the kit. Too bad they didn't provide any explanations about it. Like what's Anechoic, Ambient, Raw...
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post #1303 of 5832 Old 08-03-2009, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Yes, that's what it downloaded automatically. I'm looking forward to the full bandwidth "next" version they show here. I wonder when it will be released...

ETA: D'oh, I see that V2 already includes the new "Full Range" features. It's also shown in the online manual, but not in the one that came with the kit. Too bad they didn't provide any explanations about it. Like what's Anechoic, Ambient, Raw...

Go back to the website with your serial number and you can download the new software and, also, the new doc file.

The differences between the different displays has to do with the time gating. It is in the new doc.

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post #1304 of 5832 Old 08-03-2009, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by twenty/twenty View Post

Anyone?


Did this a while ago so my memory of the differences are kinda sketchy but in general the HDMI is more detailed and transparent and very large soundstage with the analog out of the 09 being more relaxed, full bodied less high end but more like a true high end system /tubes - very relaxed and more analog like with more full bodied images. When I was listening seriously well recorded music would go primarily with analog out of the 09. The pre section in the 800 is absolutely fantastic which was very pleasantly surprising to me as I did not expect it. For most music listening now I'm using uncompressed feed from an Ipod docked with Wadia 27i which allows digital stream out to be decoded by the Classe. Very nice, not sure which is better tho - 09 or Ipod/Wadia combo. Suspect the 09.
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post #1305 of 5832 Old 08-03-2009, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by owl1 View Post

For most music listening now I'm using uncompressed feed from an Ipod docked with Wadia 27i which allows digital stream out to be decoded by the Classe. Very nice, not sure which is better tho - 09 or Ipod/Wadia combo. Suspect the 09.

That is, IMO, the true beauty of the SSP-800. Which is better? perhaps each is better in its own way? both options are very strong. from as near as I can tell, no other pre/pro offers this at any price range, yet. A lot of people buy the 09 to make up for the lack of DACs in his/her pre/pro. Not necessary with the SSP-800. as much as people complain about what is (perceived) lacking in the SSP-800, I really believe people are fooling themselves by lacking in other pre/pro's and using unnecessary means (for the ssp-800 owner) to attempt to come to a similar end. In other words, the Denon and Onkyo folk that think we are fools for chosing the SSP-800 are unhappy with the audio performance of their pre/pro's and are choosing analog devices to compensate, while our pre/pro is so strong, it just accels with just about any transport, delivering a high caliber of audio bliss!

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post #1306 of 5832 Old 08-17-2009, 03:58 PM
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I heard August, we are more than halfway through. Anybody heard anything?
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post #1307 of 5832 Old 08-17-2009, 04:28 PM
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I heard August, we are more than halfway through. Anybody heard anything?

Now late Aug/early Sept.
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post #1308 of 5832 Old 08-17-2009, 05:12 PM
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I heard the same thing. It should be the very end of August or Early September, and a one week delivery time after that for over here in the NW.
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post #1309 of 5832 Old 08-26-2009, 12:46 PM
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just got word from Dave. Some boards will be going out as early as next week.

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post #1310 of 5832 Old 08-26-2009, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sikoniko View Post

In other words, the Denon and Onkyo folk that think we are fools for chosing the SSP-800 are unhappy with the audio performance of their pre/pro's and are choosing analog devices to compensate, while our pre/pro is so strong, it just accels with just about any transport, delivering a high caliber of audio bliss!

Ive not seen anyone from the denon avp group make a claim like that also only now a few are trying the 32bits/al32 stuff from the A1UD over analog and comparing. Any claim on the dac section of the avp vs the 800 is just speculation from both sides and mostly based on personal bias instead of facts.

My personal feeling about the 800 is that it can turn out to be a very nice unit but first the boards have to ship and turn out to be stable. What the avp had/has is time in the market its already been out for more than a year now in all its glory.

Daniel.

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post #1311 of 5832 Old 08-26-2009, 04:26 PM
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What I have heard is there is no audible difference pre dsp and post dsp. Hoe does that fit into your theory?

I'm not really interested in getting into he did she said. You have your observation and I have mine. May I refer you to the pioneer 09 thread to read where I came to my conclusion.

I also think it is pointless entering into a conversation about the 800 vs anything else. Its like debating a woman. Yea dear you're right. I have no personal buy in to anothers choice and believe others are free to make their own justifications for any given product. It's a personal choice

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post #1312 of 5832 Old 08-27-2009, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sikoniko View Post

What I have heard is there is no audible difference pre dsp and post dsp. Hoe does that fit into your theory?

I'm not really interested in getting into he did she said. You have your observation and I have mine. May I refer you to the pioneer 09 thread to read where I came to my conclusion.

I also think it is pointless entering into a conversation about the 800 vs anything else. Its like debating a woman. Yea dear you're right. I have no personal buy in to anothers choice and believe others are free to make their own justifications for any given product. It's a personal choice


I agree with you i am following all these threads and just made the observation that ive never seen anyone make a statement you say we did :

"the Denon and Onkyo folk that think we are fools for chosing the SSP-800 are unhappy with the audio performance of their pre/pro's and are choosing analog devices to compensate"

At least not from anyone from the denon avp 'folks' what i have seen so far is that its a group that is very open and not of the A is better then B kind . Thats why i responded don't like how you tried to pinhole us into a 'folks that think we are fools' statement.

Back to the 800 and the new boards...

Daniel.

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post #1313 of 5832 Old 08-27-2009, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by danielo View Post

I agree with you i am following all these threads and just made the observation that ive never seen anyone make a statement you say we did :

"the Denon and Onkyo folk that think we are fools for chosing the SSP-800 are unhappy with the audio performance of their pre/pro's and are choosing analog devices to compensate"

At least not from anyone from the denon avp 'folks' what i have seen so far is that its a group that is very open and not of the A is better then B kind . Thats why i responded don't like how you tried to pinhole us into a 'folks that think we are fools' statement.

Back to the 800 and the new boards...

Daniel.

I was typing on my iphone last night, so didn't want to get into it. To back my own statement. A large percentage of people that have purchased the Pioneer 09 BD player have done so for the analog section. I too bought into the hype of this player and borrowed one from my dealer, but I was hoping a difference in video between my PS3 and the Pioneer. The conclusion I came to was there was no significant difference. I actually found the PS3 to have more bass.

anyways. The people purchasing the 09 for the analog section, in my observation, include owners of the high end onkyo and denon products. These same people preferred the analog section of the 09 to that of running it digital to their receiver/pre-pro. Now we can debate the merit of what it is they prefer about the Pioneer vs the processors, but on the surface, it appears that the digital sections are inferior to the analog section of the Pioneer - thus why they are choosing to use the Pioneer. This has nothing to do with the classe product.

In my own tests, I found that the SSP-800 was better and running the signal HDMI was the best way to go. Analog out of the Pioneer is unnecessary, and IMO, an inferior approach to my ears. We could debate that I prefer the burr browns over the wolfsons, or whatnot, but the fact is I prefer the classe implementation over the pioneer implementation. Now obvisously this is a limited sample on both sides to come to any REAL conclusion, but the conclusion I made was the one I stated.

When I first bought the SSP, I had a lot of pride, and found myself entering into conversations of one product is better than the other. now, I just don't care.

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post #1314 of 5832 Old 08-27-2009, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sikoniko View Post

I was typing on my iphone last night, so didn't want to get into it. To back my own statement. A large percentage of people that have purchased the Pioneer 09 BD player have done so for the analog section. I too bought into the hype of this player and borrowed one from my dealer, but I was hoping a difference in video between my PS3 and the Pioneer. The conclusion I came to was there was no significant difference. I actually found the PS3 to have more bass.

anyways. The people purchasing the 09 for the analog section, in my observation, include owners of the high end onkyo and denon products. These same people preferred the analog section of the 09 to that of running it digital to their receiver/pre-pro. Now we can debate the merit of what it is they prefer about the Pioneer vs the processors, but on the surface, it appears that the digital sections are inferior to the analog section of the Pioneer - thus why they are choosing to use the Pioneer. This has nothing to do with the classe product.

In my own tests, I found that the SSP-800 was better and running the signal HDMI was the best way to go. Analog out of the Pioneer is unnecessary, and IMO, an inferior approach to my ears. We could debate that I prefer the burr browns over the wolfsons, or whatnot, but the fact is I prefer the classe implementation over the pioneer implementation. Now obvisously this is a limited sample on both sides to come to any REAL conclusion, but the conclusion I made was the one I stated.

When I first bought the SSP, I had a lot of pride, and found myself entering into conversations of one product is better than the other. now, I just don't care.

Well atleast this makes it a little more clear, You will always have people that prefer sound x vs sound y and for that reason use external dac's or analog sections doubt that will ever change. I guess there can be a huge difference between prefering something and something that by logic/facts/quality is bettter tube amps are one example who am i to say what people prefer thats upto the ear who hear it.

Ive indeed seen several 09 users in the denon avp thread but they also are the people who jump from player to player most of them already moved on to playing with DL4 or the A1UD player as the toy of the week.

Again the only reason i replied was the way you made the statement, i think going into the why people prefer x over y and what is good or bad is silly and we seem to share that opinion.

Daniel.

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post #1315 of 5832 Old 08-28-2009, 07:26 AM
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looks like I have something to do this weekend! This is not the final kit/instructions.




I'll report back after the install. waiting for software, which I should receive today.
LL

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post #1316 of 5832 Old 08-28-2009, 07:56 AM
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sikoniko

Looks cool, can you photo document the install process for us? Can't wait to hear your feedback, congrats! Wonder why the need for replacing AC cable assembly?
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post #1317 of 5832 Old 08-28-2009, 08:16 AM
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Can someone knowledgeable comment on the "quality" of the parametric equalizer built into the 800? Is it as transparent as what you'd get with a QSC or Dolby Lake or similar?

I'm not asking about 800 vs. Audyssey (etc.) ... instead am asking whether the algorithms/math in the parametric EQ are "near the state of the art"?
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post #1318 of 5832 Old 08-28-2009, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post

Can someone knowledgeable comment on the "quality" of the parametric equalizer built into the 800? Is it as transparent as what you'd get with a QSC or Dolby Lake or similar?

I'm not asking about 800 vs. Audyssey (etc.) ... instead am asking whether the algorithms/math in the parametric EQ are "near the state of the art"?

I use the SSP's EQ extensively and hear no difference in the fundamental sound quality of my system with it on or off. What I do notice is the expected improvement in tonal balance. In fact I just tweaked the settings on Monday to notch out an upper bass (90Hz) room resonance and now my system sounds as close to perfect as I can get it.

I can't speak to the actual "quality of the math" used, but I think that it can be safely assumed that Classe wouldn't cripple a state-of-the-art SSP with a less-than EQ. The simply wouldn't have included it.

But now you have me curious. What do you believe makes one PEQ more advanced than another?

Edit: I just read up on the Lake EQ and it has some features that the Classe EQ does not, like shelf filters and asymmetrical filters. But with that said, the filters in the Classe behave predictably and the end measured results always matches the predicted response by my sound analysis tool.
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post #1319 of 5832 Old 08-28-2009, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post

Can someone knowledgeable comment on the "quality" of the parametric equalizer built into the 800? Is it as transparent as what you'd get with a QSC or Dolby Lake or similar?

I'm not asking about 800 vs. Audyssey (etc.) ... instead am asking whether the algorithms/math in the parametric EQ are "near the state of the art"?

Some years ago I had a conversation with Jerry Purcell, President of Momentum Data Systems, and he explained the extra effort that went into their filter designs for bass management. Apparently there are easier ways to do low-frequency filters, but performance is sacrificed. If this philosophy carries over to their PEQ, it should not be a problem.
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post #1320 of 5832 Old 08-28-2009, 10:07 AM
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But now you have me curious. What do you believe makes one PEQ more advanced than another?

Inadequate resolution in the calculations, truncating the LSBs, I suppose that sort of stuff.
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