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post #2881 of 5821 Old 03-27-2010, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

The PEQ functions correctly, but when the filter is set to a higher Q, it causes an odd side effect. Whenever there is audio within the passband of that filter, it causes a wideband noise to be produced. The filter that did this in my case was addressing a room resonance, so it was much higher than one would use for general EQ shaping. Q=12 @ 80 Hz, gain -6 dB. So I deactivated that filter for the time being. I have various other filters running that cause no audible problems, like Q=2 or 3.

I suspect most folks never encounter the problem.

Do you have any idea of what the threshold for this is? All my Qs are less than 10dB (and are under 50Hz) and I have not heard any consequent noise.

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post #2882 of 5821 Old 03-27-2010, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Do you have any idea of what the threshold for this is? All my Qs are less than 10dB (and are under 50Hz) and I have not heard any consequent noise.

It's not a hard threshold. The easiest way to determine is to find a test disc (or a test generator) with a sine wave tone near the center frequency of the filter. I found that the noise is proportional to Q setting, and to gain. Highest at +3, lowest at -20, and none at 0. At lower Qs the noise is so low that it's covered by the music.

If your filters are in the subwoofer path, the noise will be less audible as it is restricted by the sub's response. Mine were in the main speakers.

It took me a while to even notice that the problem existed--as it required just the right stimulus, as it is not there all the time. When I reported it to Classe, they said only one other person had mentioned it. Either it is largely inaudible, or not many folks use the EQ. Turns out it has been there since day 1, even with the single DSP platform.
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post #2883 of 5821 Old 03-27-2010, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

The PEQ functions correctly, but when the filter is set to a higher Q, it causes an odd side effect. Whenever there is audio within the passband of that filter, it causes a wideband noise to be produced. The filter that did this in my case was addressing a room resonance, so it was much higher than one would use for general EQ shaping. Q=12 @ 80 Hz, gain -6 dB. So I deactivated that filter for the time being. I have various other filters running that cause no audible problems, like Q=2 or 3.

I suspect most folks never encounter the problem.

Thanks Roger.

Jose.
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post #2884 of 5821 Old 03-28-2010, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

It's not a hard threshold. The easiest way to determine is to find a test disc (or a test generator) with a sine wave tone near the center frequency of the filter. I found that the noise is proportional to Q setting, and to gain. Highest at +3, lowest at -20, and none at 0. At lower Qs the noise is so low that it's covered by the music.

If your filters are in the subwoofer path, the noise will be less audible as it is restricted by the sub's response. Mine were in the main speakers.

It took me a while to even notice that the problem existed--as it required just the right stimulus, as it is not there all the time. When I reported it to Classe, they said only one other person had mentioned it. Either it is largely inaudible, or not many folks use the EQ. Turns out it has been there since day 1, even with the single DSP platform.

Well, I could search it out with a signal as my filters are in the front LCRs as well as the sub but if I found it, I would have to fix it or suffer. I think I will wait until it rears its ugly head on its own.

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post #2885 of 5821 Old 03-28-2010, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

When I reported it to Classe, they said only one other person had mentioned it. Either it is largely inaudible, or not many folks use the EQ. Turns out it has been there since day 1, even with the single DSP platform.

I think that was me, or there's a third person. I can hear it very well, and it sounds like a tweeter is broken.
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post #2886 of 5821 Old 03-28-2010, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Teejoo View Post

I think that was me, or there's a third person. I can hear it very well, and it sounds like a tweeter is broken.

That makes you the third. What are the settings of the filter that causes it?
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post #2887 of 5821 Old 03-29-2010, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

That makes you the third. What are the settings of the filter that causes it?

I've reported it in detail to Classe back in Feb - I see the same symptoms other people report. Here's and excerpt of what I sent to Classe :

Experimenting with manually sweeping sine waves, it became very obvious that when the frequency matched that of the filters I'd set, there was a quite loud hissing much higher up the frequency range (so with my 3 way floorstanding speakers, although the sinewave was at 65Hz and quite quiet, there was quite a distinctive hissing from the tweeter).

The volume of the hissing seemed to be affected by the Q setting more than anything - the narrower the Q (higher values) the louder and more prominent the high frequency hissing was. Amount of gain made little difference unless gain was set to 0dB. It happened with either of the bands in effect, I tried switching individual ones off.

I've not noticed this with the sub EQ, but then the sub can't reproduce the kind of high frequency noise I've experienced here.
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post #2888 of 5821 Old 03-29-2010, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

That makes you the third. What are the settings of the filter that causes it?

I have no idea, but I didn't test it by switching off each filter. I just turned off the EQ.
I measured using roomEQ, and I'm sure I have entered a lot of different Q's.
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post #2889 of 5821 Old 03-29-2010, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SamothUK View Post


I've not noticed this with the sub EQ, but then the sub can't reproduce the kind of high frequency noise I've experienced here.[/i]

I did notice it with the sub when I was doing the roomEQ sweep, but I thought it was due to some room resonance that I amplified a sort of resonance sound.
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post #2890 of 5821 Old 03-29-2010, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamothUK View Post

I've reported it in detail to Classe back in Feb - I see the same symptoms other people report. Here's and excerpt of what I sent to Classe :

Experimenting with manually sweeping sine waves, it became very obvious that when the frequency matched that of the filters I'd set, there was a quite loud hissing much higher up the frequency range (so with my 3 way floorstanding speakers, although the sinewave was at 65Hz and quite quiet, there was quite a distinctive hissing from the tweeter).

The volume of the hissing seemed to be affected by the Q setting more than anything - the narrower the Q (higher values) the louder and more prominent the high frequency hissing was. Amount of gain made little difference unless gain was set to 0dB. It happened with either of the bands in effect, I tried switching individual ones off.

I've not noticed this with the sub EQ, but then the sub can't reproduce the kind of high frequency noise I've experienced here.

Exactly. Then there were four.
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post #2891 of 5821 Old 03-30-2010, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teejoo View Post

I think that was me, or there's a third person. I can hear it very well, and it sounds like a tweeter is broken.

I have a similar problem.

"...sounds like a tweeter is broken" is what I experience in bass frequencies. With every bass punch I hear a hiss; only with digital connections (coax and HDMI). In analog bypass there is no hiss. And after I reboot the SSP everything is back to normal for a while.

I didn't mentioned it before because I was unable to find the correct words to describe the problem and I'm still using the single DSP and first firmware release. I don't use PEQ; room EQ is disabled.

I still haven't figured it out what is causing the hiss to return. My feeling is that it returns after I used an input with a HDMI connection for the first time after the reboot.

After my upgrade to the dual DSP at the end of this week I hope this problem is solved.
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post #2892 of 5821 Old 03-30-2010, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SwainDtV View Post

I have a similar problem.

"...sounds like a tweeter is broken" is what I experience in bass frequencies. With every bass punch I hear a hiss; only with digital connections (coax and HDMI). In analog bypass there is no hiss. And after I reboot the SSP everything is back to normal for a while.

I didn't mentioned it before because I was unable to find the correct words to describe the problem and I'm still using the single DSP and first firmware release. I don't use PEQ; room EQ is disabled.

I still haven't figured it out what is causing the hiss to return. My feeling is that it returns after I used an input with a HDMI connection for the first time after the reboot.

After my upgrade to the dual DSP at the end of this week I hope this problem is solved.

Mmm, strange. This sounds like a different problem. Never experienced that one.

I must say the EQ is the only real problem I have. The fact that my pioneer selects 1080i when resolution is set to auto is annoying, but can be solved by setting it to 1080P manuyally. Still hope the new software version fixes this.

So, still very satisfied with my SSP-800, and very glad I didn't buy the Arcam AVR-600.
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post #2893 of 5821 Old 04-02-2010, 01:13 PM
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I see Classe has released the new firmware code 2.0.2_0075 just today. I had a little problem when I tried to download the interim Beta code earlier today because of a glitch with Windows 7. I believe the problem was because my laptop did not retrieve the correct drivers for the SSP-800's USB that will work with windows 7. It was just as well since they just released the official new firmware code and I would much rather be downloading that.
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post #2894 of 5821 Old 04-02-2010, 01:53 PM
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Got it. Nice to have the various mutings working when changing modes and sources.
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post #2895 of 5821 Old 04-04-2010, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Got it. Nice to have the various mutings working when changing modes and sources.

I wish I could get it. I'm Having a problem I beleive because I have Windows 7 on my laptop. I am going to try one more time today. If it doesn't work I will call Classe next week to see if they have any suggestions.
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post #2896 of 5821 Old 04-04-2010, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

I wish I could get it. I'm Having a problem I beleive because I have Windows 7 on my laptop. I am going to try one more time today. If it doesn't work I will call Classe next week to see if they have any suggestions.

What kind of issues are you having with Windows 7?
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post #2897 of 5821 Old 04-04-2010, 08:39 AM
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Sorry if this has been posted. I just found this note by Robert Harley and thought those who are considering the SSP 800 might be interested. This unit does seem to have quite an audio "pedigree"!

>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.avguide.com/review/tas-19...troller?page=5
How the HDMI input signal is handled requires more than off-the-shelf solutions to achieve good sound. Many listeners have reported that HDMI connection introduces degradation. Classé did considerable research into this problem and came up with its own way of recovering and decoding the complex HDMI signal (it is transmitted in packets and carries high-res multichannel audio, HD-video copy protection, and other housekeeping data). One of the engineers who worked on this problem (and on many other aspects of the SSP-800) is Alan Clark, the primary author of the great Linn CD12 CD player. Clark is VP of Research and Development and Chief Technical Officer of the B&W Group. Another Classé engineer who contributed greatly to the SSP-800 is Tom Calatayud, who worked at Mark Levinson on such products as the groundbreaking No.30 digital processor and No.40 Media Controller. The user interface was created and written by Classé engineer Richard Katezansky. RH

Regards, Can
Theta sound: Powerful and full-bodied, stunning 3D soundstage, spooky imaging in "clean & quiet" soundfield. My system & CBIII HD review & setup help - Post # 3913 & 3914
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post #2898 of 5821 Old 04-05-2010, 06:14 AM
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What kind of issues are you having with Windows 7?

Once I got to the step where I initiate the Downloader a window pops up that reads detecting but just stays that way. Maybe I wasn't patient enough which is why I am going to try again today.
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post #2899 of 5821 Old 04-05-2010, 06:30 AM
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If you are using USB, are you absolutely sure you have identified the correct IRQ line for the port per the instructions? If you have not, you will never get a connection.
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post #2900 of 5821 Old 04-05-2010, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

Once I got to the step where I initiate the Downloader a window pops up that reads detecting but just stays that way. Maybe I wasn't patient enough which is why I am going to try again today.

I'm assuming you are turning on the Classe from the back at that moment? It can't already be on.. you need to turn it on (from the back only).
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post #2901 of 5821 Old 04-05-2010, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by racerguy View Post

If you are using USB, are you absolutely sure you have identified the correct IRQ line for the port per the instructions? If you have not, you will never get a connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I'm assuming you are turning on the Classe from the back at that moment? It can't already be on.. you need to turn it on (from the back only).


I just finished successfully doing the firmware update with Windows 7. I did get Tom McConville from Classe to send me the drivers for Windows 7 Friday so maybe that was why I was successful this time around or maybe the first time I attempted to do the firmware download I missed a step. It did fix my DVD-Audio playability issue with the HDMI cable as I checked 7 different DVD-A discs and they all played with the HDMI connection. There was however a slight truncation on the very first track on most of the disc's I tested. On some of the disc's I did not notice it and in the case of a couple of disc's it did it on the m/c tracks but not on the stereo tracks. Also when I skip to the second track it also doesn't have the truncation or if I start with the first track and skip back to start the first track over it doesn't do it. Tom warned me on Friday about this and said it would be more noticeable on some disc's but that it wouldn't happen on all the disc's which seems to be the case. It sounded like from talking with him that this issue is going to be difficult to correct completely.
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post #2902 of 5821 Old 04-16-2010, 11:33 AM
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Since downloading the latest firmware code I have played a handful more DVD-A disc's and cd's with the HDMI connection and did not notice any audio truncation this go around. For the most part the SSP-800 seems pretty stable to me. I have also been comparing HDMI with the balanced analog connection and one thing I noticed is that with HDMI the volume levels are about 4db higher than with the balanced analogs, is this the norm? Also when comparing a couple of cd's, the sound of the main vocals were more focused to the right and with the analogs the vocals were more towards the center. I wasn't expecting this because I have the same front speaker level configuration set in the A1 as I do with the SSP-800. It was like with the HDMI connection the right speakers volume level was 2 to 3 db higher than it is with the analog connection. I seem to prefer the sound of 2-channel music with the balance analog connection vs. HDMI it seems to have a wider soundstage and warmer sound, but I have only compared a couple of cd's so far. I always liked the way my A1 sounded with my Parasound Halo P7 pre-amp. The P7 is a pretty good multi-channel pre-amp that has balanced analog outputs for 2 channel. I feel that the SSP-800 sounds as good if not better.
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post #2903 of 5821 Old 04-16-2010, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

Since downloading the latest firmware code I have played a handful more DVD-A disc's and cd's with the HDMI connection and did not notice any audio truncation this go around. For the most part the SSP-800 seems pretty stable to me. I have also been comparing HDMI with the balanced analog connection and one thing I noticed is that with HDMI the volume levels are about 4db higher than with the balanced analogs, is this the norm? Also when comparing a couple of cd's, the sound of the main vocals were more focused to the right and with the analogs the vocals were more towards the center. I wasn't expecting this because I have the same front speaker level configuration set in the A1 as I do with the SSP-800. It was like with the HDMI connection the right speakers volume level was 2 to 3 db higher than the than it is with the analog connection. I seem to prefer the sound of 2-channel music with the balance analog connection vs. HDMI it seems to have a wider soundstage and warmer sound, but I have only compared a couple of cd's so far. I always liked the way my A1 sounded with my Parasound Halo P7 pre-amp. The P7 is pretty good multi-channel pre-amp that has balanced analog outputs for 2 channel. I feel that the SSP-800 sounds as good if not better.


That is strange that you would have an off-center image using HDMI. You could use a calibration test disc and an SPL meter to measure the channel levels of the HDMI vs analog inputs.
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post #2904 of 5821 Old 04-16-2010, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

I have also been comparing HDMI with the balanced analog connection and one thing I noticed is that with HDMI the volume levels are about 4db higher than with the balanced analogs, is this the norm?

Yes--totally within the range of normal. Why not go into the analog source setup and use the gain offset control to normalize it to the HDMI level? Then once it is perfectly gain matched (to within 0.25 dB) you can more easily compare the L/R balance issue, either by ear or by SPL meter.
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post #2905 of 5821 Old 04-21-2010, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

with HDMI the volume levels are about 4db higher than with the balanced analogs, is this the norm? Also when comparing a couple of cd's, the sound of the main vocals were more focused to the right and with the analogs the vocals were more towards the center.


This is a common manifestation. A significant boost in gain (4db is significant) can magnify gain differences between channels. What may have been a completely inaudible .5db gain difference between right and left channels at your prior nominal level can be magnified into an easily perceivable difference when the overall gain is increased.
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post #2906 of 5821 Old 04-22-2010, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by racerguy View Post

This is a common manifestation. A significant boost in gain (4db is significant) can magnify gain differences between channels. What may have been a completely inaudible .5db gain difference between right and left channels at your prior nominal level can be magnified into an easily perceivable difference when the overall gain is increased.

This might be the case, however I did first adjust the gain levels, all be it by ear, before comparing. I am starting to prefer the HDMI for multi-channel DVD-A disc's. I even felt that multi-channel SACD sounded as good with HDMI as it does with the m/c analogs even with the players (A1UDCI) limitations when it comes to SACD. I may wind up going with the HDMI connection for all multi-channel (bluray, DVD-A and SACD) and the 2-channel balanced xlr's for all 2-channel music.
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post #2907 of 5821 Old 04-22-2010, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

This might be the case, however I did first adjust the gain levels, all be it by ear, before comparing. I am starting to prefer the HDMI for multi-channel DVD-A disc's. I even felt that multi-channel SACD sounded as good with HDMI as it does with the m/c analogs even with the players (A1UDCI) limitations when it comes to SACD. I may wind up going with the HDMI connection for all multi-channel (bluray, DVD-A and SACD) and the 2-channel balanced xlr's for all 2-channel music.

That's my preferred way of connecting my sources into the SSP-800.

"Music is my religion"
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post #2908 of 5821 Old 04-22-2010, 08:13 AM
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That's my preferred way of connecting my sources into the SSP-800.

+1

Unless I want bass management for 2 channel.
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post #2909 of 5821 Old 04-23-2010, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Sharp1080 View Post

That's my preferred way of connecting my sources into the SSP-800.

Recently I noticed that I was not getting the SSP-800 OSD menu on my display. I switched the SSP-800 off from the back and also disconnected the HDMI cable. After about one minute I switched it back on reconnected the HDMI and the OSD menu came back on to my display. Not sure why it disappeared in the first place? Has this happened to anybody else? The good news is it came back. On another note, now that I have listened to a variety of DVD-A disc's with the HDMI connection I feel I am hearing a better defined & sharper surround field vs. the m/c analogs. I am still experimenting with 2-channel but I sure do like the way it sounds with the xlr's with the SSP-800 as just a pre-amp.
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post #2910 of 5821 Old 04-23-2010, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

Recently I noticed that I was not getting the SSP-800 OSD menu on my display. I switched the SSP-800 off from the back and also disconnected the HDMI cable. After about one minute I switched it back on reconnected the HDMI and the OSD menu came back on to my display. Not sure why it disappeared in the first place? Has this happened to anybody else? The good news is it came back..

As far as I know, this is still a bug. Unless it was corrected on the latest firmware. Happened to me twice (previous firmware).
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