Krell Evolution 707 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 185 Old 02-06-2008, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.krellonline.com/new_pdfs/...90_025_BRO.pdf

I really want this. It does the new audio formats. And I have showcases so it will match.

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The Evolution 707 supports Dolby Digital Surround EX,
Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS 6.1 ES, DTS 5.1, DTS NEO:6,
Dolby Pro Logic II processing as well as Dolby TrueHD
and DTS HD Master Audio lossless surround formats
over HDMITM 1.3, plus 9 proprietary Krell Music
Surround modes.

Anyone know MSRP? Is it shipping now? What video proc chip does it have?
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post #2 of 185 Old 02-06-2008, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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The MSRP is $25K
http://aventhusiast.com/?p=8
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post #3 of 185 Old 02-06-2008, 09:43 PM
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Wondering what 8.4 sound does and what is the video processor.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
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post #4 of 185 Old 02-07-2008, 06:35 AM
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Keep in mind the new Krell S1000 will have HDMI 1.3 available within the next month or so and I believe it retails for around $7,000.
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post #5 of 185 Old 02-07-2008, 06:43 AM
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I had the S1000 for 72hrs. and sent it back. To me it was terrible. I'm using a Denon 3808 as a pre-pro now and it sounds better than the S1000. I had an Anthem D1 and the Krell shouldn't be used in the same sentence!! That's my opinion YMMV

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post #6 of 185 Old 02-07-2008, 07:15 AM
 
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Actually I have the MSRP at $30,000. That was from speaking with Krell on Monday.

Sorry to hear you didn't like your S1000, not liking it wasn't my experience. I would think the Evo 707 is goign to be one of the best pre/pros out there, but we'll see.

That's the funny thing about audio, it's so subjective.

Richard
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post #7 of 185 Old 02-07-2008, 07:57 AM
 
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I've arranged a Q & A session with Krell on Tuesday, make sure to email me your questions or chime in on that date.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=990274

Richard
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post #8 of 185 Old 02-07-2008, 08:30 AM
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That was just my experience with the S1000. I have had the KAV series in the past for 2-channel and it was awsome.

Gene

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post #9 of 185 Old 02-07-2008, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Keep in mind the new Krell S1000 will have HDMI 1.3 available...

I would be very interested in that. Is Krell offering Showcase trade-in credit?
How will Krell implement HDMI 1.3 in the S1000? Will Krell enable decoders that already exist? Or is Krell modifying the current production S1000? I would prefer a product that was built from the ground up to process the new audio formats. For that reason, I wanted to wait another year to buy a new PrePro. I'm kind of suspicious that Krell will be the first high end HDMI 1.3 enabled proc. Did the rushing influence their quality? The thing is we won't know for a while until we have other pros to compare it to.
My desire to have matching components or to have it a soon as possible is not as great as my desire to have an efficient, reliable and stable system.
The only reason I am considering the s1000 is because I need a video hub ASAP because my switcher broke. So I decided to buy the RadianceXD video proc. Since, I have an Audyssey Pro EQ, I was attracted to the idea of having my Audio AND video processed even though my wife feels that that would be geeking out way too much. Perhaps, my money would be better spent on HDMI audio and make do with the video proc chip that will come with the newly modified S1000. I could sell my NBS interconnects that I won't be needing anymore and my Showcase PrePro. Between that and the money I would spend on the RadianceXD, I would actually come out ahead. But if I am not happy with S1000 I would stuck with it for a while.
As a Krell owner, I’m a little nervous. My Showcases were serviced 3 times and they run very, very hot. Even with the four rack fans, I'm sure the performance suffers after many years of use with that kind of heat.
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post #10 of 185 Old 02-07-2008, 09:49 AM
 
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Krell has been working on their HDMI 1.3 implementation since at least last May when I visited them. It's been a laborious process of design testing errors and retakes, along with chip flaws, chip supply problems, and other people (Dolby) certifying their codecs on teh new chips.

I Don't think it was rushed, in fact much of the solution for teh S1000 was absed upon the work they had getting the Evo 707 done. Trickel down if you will, but lessons learned and easier implementation.

Krell MAY BE the only one to really offer a board upgrade in the same piece. We'll see how it goes the end of this month or in March when they plan on shipping them.

Richard
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post #11 of 185 Old 02-07-2008, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


We'll see how it goes the end of this month or in March when they plan on shipping them.

It just occurred to me that Audyssey EQ owners should probably not spend too much on a PrePro. We'll always be limited to the DAC now found in $1,500 receivers. And the DACs must be old tech by now. But every audiophile upgrade I every made never, ever came close to the musically gorgeous improvement of the Audyssey EQ in my personal system.
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That's the funny thing about audio, it's so subjective.

Perhaps our ability to create beauty is greater than our ability to test it. The subjective improvements that audiophiles, for that matter all people, hear can be attributed to that. Even though we can’t scientifically prove the $25K Pre/Pro is better than the $5K, some people are blessed to hear the difference. But before I venture to non scientific improvements, science must always come first. Especially if I can hear the difference in something more scientifically correct.
Damn, I really want it, but I can’t intellectually justify it. I think even Krell would be upset knowing that I will send their sound that they worked so hard on into my cheapo DAC. (Let alone being reprocessed.)
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post #12 of 185 Old 02-07-2008, 11:29 AM
 
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Well post some of your questions and that to them on Tuesday. Their CAST ystem keps the current loop so you aren't losing dynaic range at each gain stage so it may help a bit.

Richard
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post #13 of 185 Old 02-07-2008, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Funny thing just happened. I just met Dan D’Agostino, the CEO of Krell . He just gave me a lot of information.
The MSRP is $30K for the 707. And it does room EQ. I didn’t question him on the 707 because I calculate that a Pre/Pro’s, or any source for that matter, life span is 5 years and I can never justify $30K for 5 years use. Speakers I would and did.
I explained to Dan my concerns that I’d prefer if Krell built it from the ground up to do the new Audio formats. He said much like what was said earlier, that the 707 has been in development for 2 years for the new audio formats and the s1000 got a lot of its tech. So I asked how he could have QA and tested for long and he said that he tested with their own recordings of high rez. So I explained that he didn’t really alleviate my concern. It’s the whole package that I’m concerned with and not just Krell’s ability with a high rez format. Dan said that the 707 sounds amazing, although I didn’t bother to question if he heard it with a Blu-Ray player because I think I know the answer. …Audiophiles!
The S1000 HDMI audio upgrade will be available in April.
An upgraded S1000 will be identical to the new S1000’s shipping in April. (Although I pointed out to Dan that the S1000 face plate currently lacks the Dolby True HD logo. So he agreed that the only difference will be the face plate.)
The new HDMI board will have many other upgrades including video processing. He said that the video processing is 100% Krell proprietary. So I asked if krell even does the deinterlacing and he said that there is a Faroudja chip in there but all the software is Krell and that they went all out on its development for the 707 so it will be stellar. I asked if they tested it with the test disc from HQV and he said yes.
I asked how he felt about me butchering the Krell sound with the Audyssey EQ. He was appalled! As an audiophile purist he can’t help but balk and made me promise if I buy that I will try it without the EQ on. My biggest wish in the in the audio industry is for a company who puts science before audiophileness but still retain audiophileness. I love audiophileness, but I must never lose track that science comes first.
Dan also said that the S1000 also runs hotter than the showcase which is very hot to touch even in idle mode. So I explained my concerns on the long term effect of heat on the soncis. Meaning much like wine, an audiophile product will peak. From breakin until the circuits are affected by wear and tear and heat will add to the wear and tear.
Also, the showcase was extremely limited in its setup. The crossover number is for all channels and it’s 20hz increments. Dan said that the S1000 will not improve on that much, since, a true audiophile shouldn’t be messing with crossovers.
So I think I’m going to get it. I have to get an HDMI switcher anyway, and there is the Showcase trade in incentive. And Audyssey didn’t calibrate my system correctly so they wre just about to come anyway so now they can calibrate with a Pre/Pro. And my system needs Krell’s “Enhanced Bass” mode for it to work correctly. And my dealer and Dan are giving some incredible additional incentives. The only reason I didn’t sign the bottom line right then and there is because a decision like this shouldn’t be made hasty. So I’ll give myself the weekend to think about it. But it looks like I will do it.
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post #14 of 185 Old 02-07-2008, 07:23 PM
 
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That's awesome you had that experience. Also nice to get your questions answered. You'll be able to ask more and get more answers too on Tuesday night with their Q & A.

People seem to either love or hate Krell on this forum, mostly based on price. But NO ONE can argue they don't have pure audio at the heart of ALL their products. And in turn, it means that their products sound amazing.

Perhaps I should share my experience when I went through Krell training.

I'll catch a lot of flak for this, but I cant' stand James Taylor. Can't. Oh well right? Well at Krell training they put on a track and I was like, great another demo where the listening matierla is more stuff I couldn't care about.

What it turned into was the best reproduction of sound I have heard in my life.

In the song, there were four consecutive bass drum hits. And by this it was a free standing bass drum as in the kind I played for 8 years in band. You know, the kind you take the huge mallet to and then the band director yells at you for being loud.

Well at that precise moment, there was no difference in my recollection of standing at the bass drum and beating it and what I had jsut heard in the song. Sure the recording was spectacular, but man, if you don't have the right gear, you don't get the right sound.

So there you go.

People who are interested in high end audio gear, should add Krell to their list.

Richard
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post #15 of 185 Old 02-07-2008, 08:36 PM
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I remain puzzled at Krell's exclusion of Dolby Pro Logic IIx and THX. My Showcase has both. My question is why did they drop these processing modes in both the S1000 and Evo707?


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post #16 of 185 Old 02-07-2008, 08:50 PM
 
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I'll ask Krell.

Richard
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post #17 of 185 Old 02-07-2008, 10:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


...But NO ONE can argue they don't have pure audio at the heart of ALL their products. And in turn, it means that their products sound amazing.

I bought Krell for their audio attitude.
When I first got into the audio hobby, all the high end Pre/Pro's sounded the same to me once I chose my speakers. So I didn't know who to chose. At the end I chose Krell because I got the impression that out of all the audiophile companies they seemed to care about something other then 2 channels more then all the other companies. I reasoned that they were my best chance of getting audiophile delivery in a 2+ plus system. Well, it looks like I was right because they will be the first high end company to deliver the new decoding for the new audio formats. I am so glad I bought them.

The only negative that I could think of is the crossover is for all the channels. That seems very 2 channelish philosophy to me.
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post #18 of 185 Old 02-12-2008, 07:46 AM
 
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Guys, don't forget we have a live Question and ANswer tonight with Bret D'Agostino from Krell.

I have all your emails you sent me, but feel free to log on tonight and ask questions (those you haven't asked me yet through email because those are accounted for).

It should be a good time and you'll learn a lot about Krell and audio in general.

Richard
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post #19 of 185 Old 02-12-2008, 12:15 PM
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AVSRichard,
Please ask Krell if the S-1000 will be offered with Krell Cast outputs. I looked at the online manual and did not see Cast outputs on the S-1000. Krell claims Cast sounds better, so why not offer it in the S-1000?
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There will be in a separate box. Tune in now!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=990274

Richard
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post #21 of 185 Old 08-20-2008, 12:02 PM
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According to the Krell website,

www.krellonline.com/

the big, bad Evolution 707 prepro is now shipping. If anyone has one of these brutes, I would sure like to hear your impressions on the use, operation and SOUND of a 30K prepro.
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post #22 of 185 Old 09-03-2008, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alembicjeff View Post

According to the Krell website,

www.krellonline.com/

the big, bad Evolution 707 prepro is now shipping. If anyone has one of these brutes, I would sure like to hear your impressions on the use, operation and SOUND of a 30K prepro.

I just got my 707, at this point I am not impressed! For 30K it should have the option to dim front LCD, rename inputs, ship with a real power cord not a $.01 china 10 amp piece of crap. I have not had the chance to listen to the sound yet I am debating if I want to sell or deal with all the missing options. The manual is also a joke, not what I expected since it is the most expensive AV processor on the market!
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post #23 of 185 Old 09-04-2008, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualbeta View Post

I just got my 707, at this point I am not impressed! For 30K it should have the option to dim front LCD, rename inputs, ship with a real power cord not a $.01 china 10 amp piece of crap. I have not had the chance to listen to the sound yet I am debating if I want to sell or deal with all the missing options. The manual is also a joke, not what I expected since it is the most expensive AV processor on the market!

Hi virtualbeta,

I 1000% agree. Though I only have the S-1000, it's very annoying that there are no options for the issues you mentioned. That very bright LCD display is especially annoying in a dark room. How stupid..... I spoke to Bret about it a few months back but he didn't seem too concerned about it.

I would however be interested in your opinion on its sound quality. I'm still waiting for the hdmi 1.3 upgrade that was promised about a year ago and I'm trying to decide whether or not to dump this pre/pro.

Jose.

Jose.
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post #24 of 185 Old 09-04-2008, 12:57 AM
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I had the S-1000 for just a few days before sending it back. What a joke, 8 page manual and that "credit card" sized remote! The sound was shrill! Couldn't take it! I had a Krell integrated pre-amp once and I really loved the sound. I was very disappointed in the S-1000.

gthomas
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post #25 of 185 Old 09-04-2008, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualbeta View Post

I just got my 707, at this point I am not impressed! For 30K it should have the option to dim front LCD, rename inputs, ship with a real power cord not a $.01 china 10 amp piece of crap. I have not had the chance to listen to the sound yet I am debating if I want to sell or deal with all the missing options. The manual is also a joke, not what I expected since it is the most expensive AV processor on the market!

Krell has their head in the clouds these days it seems. I still like their amps, but everything else is a risk.

Personally I would spring for the new Simaudio CP-8. Save $10k over the Krell, and probably much better build quality.
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post #26 of 185 Old 09-04-2008, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualbeta View Post

I just got my 707, at this point I am not impressed! For 30K it should have the option to dim front LCD, rename inputs, ship with a real power cord not a $.01 china 10 amp piece of crap. I have not had the chance to listen to the sound yet I am debating if I want to sell or deal with all the missing options. The manual is also a joke, not what I expected since it is the most expensive AV processor on the market!

Virtualbeta,

That's odd that the 707 doesn't have the option to dim the front LCD. I have the Evolution 505 which does have that option. As for the power cord, my guess is Krell believes that anyone spending 30K on a prepro will consider the stock powercord to be a throw-away item.

On the other hand, a well written, comprehensive manual is a MUST for any prepro with today's decoding capabilities. It is frankly inexcuseable for a product in this price range not to have such a well written manual, although this is something that is fixable by Krell. Perhaps Brett can shine some light on these issues.

Nonetheless, I'm (selfishly!) hoping that you keep your 707 so you can provide us with your feedback on the setup, operation and sound of the 707.

Can you tell us what prepro you were using prior to the 707 and whether you have a two channel setup for music to compare the 707 with? Thanks!

Jeff.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose View Post

Hi virtualbeta,

I 1000% agree. Though I only have the S-1000, it's very annoying that there are no options for the issues you mentioned. That very bright LCD display is especially annoying in a dark room. How stupid..... I spoke to Bret about it a few months back but he didn't seem too concerned about it.

I would however be interested in your opinion on its sound quality. I'm still waiting for the hdmi 1.3 upgrade that was promised about a year ago and I'm trying to decide whether or not to dump this pre/pro.

Jose.

It id stupid for them to disregard the issue of having the ability to dim the display and led's since it is for a home theater you want the room as dark as possible. I started to config my room setup, I was also very disappointed since the unit is The Best only uses hole number values for distance settings, so if your left spek is 10.4 feet you can only use 10ft. Since the unit had HDMI 1.3, you would expect a blu-ray input or a HD Video input title but it does not have one, and you cannot rename the inputs. I did notice it had many HDMI handshake issues I had to unplug my TV or projector each time I switched HDMI inputs. It also does not tell you which HD audio format it is decoding it just states HD Audio. I know the unit still needs several weeks of use but the sound is very bright and harsh. I will post more when I play with it some more.
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post #28 of 185 Old 09-04-2008, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alembicjeff View Post

Virtualbeta,

That's odd that the 707 doesn't have the option to dim the front LCD. I have the Evolution 505 which does have that option. As for the power cord, my guess is Krell believes that anyone spending 30K on a prepro will consider the stock powercord to be a throw-away item.

On the other hand, a well written, comprehensive manual is a MUST for any prepro with today's decoding capabilities. It is frankly inexcuseable for a product in this price range not to have such a well written manual, although this is something that is fixable by Krell. Perhaps Brett can shine some light on these issues.

Nonetheless, I'm (selfishly!) hoping that you keep your 707 so you can provide us with your feedback on the setup, operation and sound of the 707.

Can you tell us what prepro you were using prior to the 707 and whether you have a two channel setup for music to compare the 707 with? Thanks!

Jeff.

Jeff, I called Krell about the power cord they say not to change as the flyer they call a manual states only use their power cord. However, they did offer me a 15amp power cord for $40 + shipping. Prior I had a S100 for 2 days then I got the Denon AVP, the AVP had a ton of great features but could not deal with heat. My Evo 402 was about 10 inches below the AVP on my rack and caused me many headaches. It did great with Video audio as long as the unit was not hot, the 2 channel was OK. With my Denon I connected my Wadia 581se straight to my Evo 402 so I can compare 707 to that, did not try yet.
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post #29 of 185 Old 09-04-2008, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualbeta View Post

Jeff, I called Krell about the power cord they say not to change as the flyer they call a manual states only use their power cord. However, they did offer me a 15amp power cord for $40 + shipping. Prior I had a S100 for 2 days then I got the Denon AVP, the AVP had a ton of great features but could not deal with heat. My Evo 402 was about 10 inches below the AVP on my rack and caused me many headaches. It did great with Video audio as long as the unit was not hot, the 2 channel was OK. With my Denon I connected my Wadia 581se straight to my Evo 402 so I can compare 707 to that, did not try yet.

My manual on the Evo 505 says the same thing about using their power cord only. One of these days, I will compare their stock power cord to a few of my aftermarket power cords from Cardas, PS Audio and Shunyata to see if I can hear any differences.

Speaking of the Evo 707 manual, it is available online at:

http://www.krellonline.com/krell_downloads.php

and I agree with you 100% that this manual is more like an overview of a product's operation that would precede a real manual.

I know the Wadia 581se allows you to skip the preamp altogether, and while it will be interesting to hear your listening impressions with the Wadia running directly into the Krell amp, it won't tell us much about the 707 prepro because you are comparing the sound to a setup with no preamp. However, you could make this comparison even more interesting by using the CAST outputs on the 707 and the CAST inputs on the Evo 402 (assuming you have CAST cables).

A Krell 707 vs. Denon AVP (if you still have it) on sound quality would be most helpful. Once the 707 breaks in, I look forward to your listening impressions.

Jeff.
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post #30 of 185 Old 09-04-2008, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Alembicjeff View Post

My manual on the Evo 505 says the same thing about using their power cord only. One of these days, I will compare their stock power cord to a few of my aftermarket power cords from Cardas, PS Audio and Shunyata to see if I can hear any differences.

Speaking of the Evo 707 manual, it is available online at:

http://www.krellonline.com/krell_downloads.php

and I agree with you 100% that this manual is more like an overview of a product's operation that would precede a real manual.

I know the Wadia 581se allows you to skip the preamp altogether, and while it will be interesting to hear your listening impressions with the Wadia running directly into the Krell amp, it won't tell us much about the 707 prepro because you are comparing the sound to a setup with no preamp. However, you could make this comparison even more interesting by using the CAST outputs on the 707 and the CAST inputs on the Evo 402 (assuming you have CAST cables).

A Krell 707 vs. Denon AVP (if you still have it) on sound quality would be most helpful. Once the 707 breaks in, I look forward to your listening impressions.

Jeff.

Jeff, I am using Transparent Opus MM1 XLR from 707 to 402 I do not have cast cables, I know krell states differently but I think my current setup is better.
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