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post #61 of 71 Old 10-05-2013, 06:47 PM
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Placing the surrounds higher than the fronts is not a throwback to anything other than the desire to hear the soundtrack as intended. Higher surrounds help create the illusion of space, ambience, and flyovers.

Changing from 1 surround channel to 2 (or 4) has no bearing on this issue.

If flat response were the main criterion, there would never have been dipoles.
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post #62 of 71 Old 10-06-2013, 10:44 AM
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These are the standards established by and for the people who create movie soundtracks:

Grammy Surround Standards

See Page 8, labeled S2 in the PDF file.

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post #63 of 71 Old 10-06-2013, 02:29 PM
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^^ NARAS is about music, not movies. All the contributors to that document are from the music industry. There is no discussion of dubbing stages or movie mixing.
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post #64 of 71 Old 10-06-2013, 02:45 PM
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A system that's used for mixdown work does not necessarily have to be exactly duplicated during playback and in most cases it's probably more optimum that it's not. Most of the music that most people listen to is monitored while recording as well as mixed down on small near field speakers like an NS-10, Alesis Monitor One etc and something similar isn't necessarily ideal for playback of mastered content. These tasks are very different.
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post #65 of 71 Old 10-07-2013, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcLain View Post

A system that's used for mixdown work does not necessarily have to be exactly duplicated during playback and in most cases it's probably more optimum that it's not.

Please explain how and why not hearing the same balance the mix engineers heard is "more optimum."

Everything I explained previously applies to all loudspeaker systems and setups, whether mono, stereo, surround music, or surround movies. Movies contain music, no?

Loudspeakers sound best and are most accurate when you listen on-axis. If you're off to one side, or lower, not only is the HF response reduced, the audio also suffers from comb filtering due to beaming. People are welcome to do whatever they want. All I can do is explain the science, and the logic behind why all speakers are best at ear level and pointing toward you.

The image below is from this page, and it shows exactly why you don't want to be off axis:

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Constant_directivity_louds.htm

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cbt45-h-s.png

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post #66 of 71 Old 10-07-2013, 10:35 AM
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The reason why is because listening for mixing is very different than listening for pleasure/amusement. A near field studio monitor will have a lot more mid range emphasis than what most listeners would agree sounds "good". This is because the mid range is where most of the action is while mixing and this includes EQ adjustments, ambient effects, panning etc.
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post #67 of 71 Old 10-08-2013, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcLain View Post

A near field studio monitor will have a lot more mid range emphasis than what most listeners would agree sounds "good".

That's news to me. Do you have any graphs etc to confirm that? Most of the professional monitors I'm aware of either aim for flat, or intentionally reduce the harsher sounding upper midrange. See below for Mackie, Genelec, and JBL monitors. I'm sure I can find many more examples if needed.

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mackie_hr824_dist.gif

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post #68 of 71 Old 10-12-2013, 03:42 PM
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Have you ever done any mixing work?

Just call a studio and ask the engineer what percentage of their mixing work is done on near field vs other monitors and you'll have your answer.
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post #69 of 71 Old 10-13-2013, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcLain View Post

Have you ever done any mixing work?

LOL, I've been professional recording / mixing engineer (and professional musician / arranger) for more than 40 years. One of my musical projects has more than 1.5 million views on YouTube. I've taught recording at the college level, and my recent book linked below is published by Focal Press, a leading technical publisher. My book is also the main text for the recording program at Notre Dame University. Now, I realize this is all Argument From Authority, so I'll just send it back to you: Have you ever done any mixing work?

BTW, if there's any parts of the graphs I posted above that you don't understand, let me know which parts and I'll gladly explain further.

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post #70 of 71 Old 10-20-2013, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

LOL, I've been professional recording / mixing engineer (and professional musician / arranger) for more than 40 years. One of my musical projects has more than 1.5 million views on YouTube. I've taught recording at the college level, and my recent book linked below is published by Focal Press, a leading technical publisher. My book is also the main text for the recording program at Notre Dame University. Now, I realize this is all Argument From Authority, so I'll just send it back to you: Have you ever done any mixing work?

BTW, if there's any parts of the graphs I posted above that you don't understand, let me know which parts and I'll gladly explain further.

--Ethan

Here's a project that was done a few years ago in my home studio:

http://www.amazon.com/Stars-Attic-Leslie-Sanazaro/dp/B0015KI6M8/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1382303572&sr=8-9&keywords=leslie+sanazaro

We did it for a singer/songwriter lady who sang with my band occasionally and it was a fun project. A lot of time was spent on the mixes using near fields but also other systems for reference. What was found mostly with that was that if the mix was well done on the near fields it tended to also sound good on other less accurate systems. This is why I say it doesn't matter nearly as much for playback listening at home etc than it does when doing actual mixing or recording work. It can still sound good even if you really couldn't use the system to determine if some minor change in level changes the mix very much or not.
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post #71 of 71 Old 10-21-2013, 10:37 AM
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Those tracks sound very good Dave! But this is hardly evidence that "A near field studio monitor will have a lot more mid range emphasis" as you wrote earlier. As my graphs above show, most monitors speakers are reasonably flat, or at least aim to be. Maybe you're thinking of Yamaha NS-10s?

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