DD 5.1 audio without cable box possible? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 08-02-2009, 06:11 AM - Thread Starter
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This is a newbie question. I appreciate your help.

I'm not able to get DD 5.1 audio from the TV channels. Even though the TV show is broadcasted in 5.1 audio, my receiver shows 2.0 on its display screen.

I'm wondering whether I'm doing something wrong or whether this is not possible to begin with.

I have Time Warner broadcast basic cable, but I don't have a cable box. My setup is simple. Cable from the wall goes to the TV, and digital audio cord from TV goes to the receiver. My TV is Sony V5100 and receiver is Sony CT500. When I connect a blu-ray blayer to one of the TV's HDMI ports, the receiver shows 5.1 on its display. So, I'm guessing that the TV is able to pass 5.1 signal and receiver is capable of receiving 5.1 signal.

Is there something wrong in my setup? or is this because Time Warner filters DD 5.1 audio in unencrypted clear channels.
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post #2 of 32 Old 08-02-2009, 06:44 AM
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It's probably just because DD 2.0 is all they are passing on that channel.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #3 of 32 Old 08-02-2009, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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For example on Friday, there was a prime time show on CBS and CBS displayed on the TV screen that this show was being broadcasted in DD 5.1, but my receiver displayed 2.0 on its screen
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post #4 of 32 Old 08-02-2009, 06:56 AM
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the QAM tuner in your TV receives can receive digital tv unscrambled on the cable. Many cable companies choose to transmit the audio in 2 channel stereo on these unscrambled channels. How do you have the audio output from your TV connected to the a/v receiver.

The digital set top boxes tune the cable companies digital channels which may have the DD 5.1 signals and it's the box that provides the toslink optical or digital audio coax output to feed the signal to your a/v receiver.

If you use the built-in ATSC digital TV tuner for over-the-air TV reception with an antenna, your set will output DD5.1 when it is present on a network HDTV show.
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post #5 of 32 Old 08-02-2009, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_vanmeter View Post

the QAM tuner in your TV receives 2channel audio only.

Are you talking about the specific QAM tuner in the OP's TV? The QAM tuner in my set outputs DD 5.1 and this is the first I have heard that some may not.
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post #6 of 32 Old 08-02-2009, 07:28 AM
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"BIslander" - you are correct, I have corrected (I hope) my post. QAM does decode the digital audio, if the cable company provides it and you connect the TV digital audio output to the receiver via Toslink optical or digital audio coax, whichever the TV provides. Thanks for catching the mistake.
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post #7 of 32 Old 08-02-2009, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your responses. They were helpful.

From what I understand, I guess it is either Time Warner filters DD 5.1 audio in unencrypted clear channels or I might have a problem with my TV's QAM tuner.

Is there anyone who is able to get DD 5.1 sound from Time Warner without a cable box? This would help me determine that the problem is the TV not Time Warner.
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post #8 of 32 Old 08-02-2009, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepblueNC View Post

Thanks for your responses. They were helpful.

From what I understand, I guess it is either Time Warner filters DD 5.1 audio in unencrypted clear channels or I might have a problem with my TV's QAM tuner.

Is there anyone who is able to get DD 5.1 sound from Time Warner without a cable box? This would help me determine that the problem is the TV not Time Warner.

I don't have Time Warner, but even with a cable box, I find not much DD 5.1 content unless you're on a premium (extra cost) channel. A fair amount of DD 2.0 out there though.

Unfortunately, I don't have my TV digital output connected to my system to do any testing. The cable box is in that chain.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #9 of 32 Old 08-02-2009, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepblueNC View Post

For example on Friday, there was a prime time show on CBS and CBS displayed on the TV screen that this show was being broadcasted in DD 5.1, but my receiver displayed 2.0 on its screen

Just to clarify, when you say it shows 2.0, do you mean DD 2.0, or PCM 2.0? If DD 2.0, then that's what is being transmitted. There is no means for a cable box or a TV to convert a DD 5.1 signal into DD 2.0. However, DD 5.1 can be converted to PCM 2.0.
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post #10 of 32 Old 08-03-2009, 03:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Just to clarify, when you say it shows 2.0, do you mean DD 2.0, or PCM 2.0? If DD 2.0, then that's what is being transmitted. There is no means for a cable box or a TV to convert a DD 5.1 signal into DD 2.0. However, DD 5.1 can be converted to PCM 2.0.

The display screen on the receiver shows LPCM 2.0, even though some TV shows state that they are in DD 5.1.
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post #11 of 32 Old 08-03-2009, 05:42 AM
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Have you checked the TV's setup for the digital/optical audio options? Maybe there's a setting/selection for PCM, bitstream(DD) or both (auto).
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post #12 of 32 Old 08-03-2009, 08:47 AM
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First thing to do it check the setting Ratman suggests. If that is set to DD, the likely culprit is that your's and most TVs, will only output DD from their optical ports when that signal is derived from OTA sources. I believe others have said this.

Sorry if this has been gone over already.

edit: m_vanmeter already said this.
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post #13 of 32 Old 08-03-2009, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyaspie View Post

... the likely culprit is that your's and most TVs, will only output DD from their optical ports when that signal is derived from OTA sources.

I humbly disagree. Internal (digital) TV tuners will process DD and output DD from digital cable (QAM) sources via optical/coax audio outputs when available.

I am not aware of any TV that only outputs DD from OTA (8VSB), but not cable (QAM).
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post #14 of 32 Old 08-03-2009, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Have you checked the TV's setup for the digital/optical audio options? Maybe there's a setting/selection for PCM, bitstream(DD) or both (auto).

I checked TV's (Sony V5100) audio setup options, I could not find a selection for PCM or bitstream. The TV's manual states that its "optical audio output connects to the optical audio input of a digital audio equipment that is PCM optical compatible." Does this mean that TV can send only PCM?

I know that when I connect my blu-ray player to one the TV's HDMI ports, the TV is able to pass through DD 5.1 audio via optical cord to the receiver.
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post #15 of 32 Old 08-03-2009, 09:43 AM
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Yes... I did see that statement when I read your manual earlier.

I find it highly unlikely that a digital audio output would not support Dolby Digital from the internal tuner whether it's OTA or cable. Especially since 1) your TV is top notch and 2) it apparently will "pass-through" DD from an external HDMI source (which IS a feature not typically supported/provided on the majority of TV's.)

Hopefully someone that owns this particular TV can confirm/deny the supported features.

Here's my suggestion:
If you have or can borrow an antenna, connect and scan for OTA channels and see if the AVR detects DD.
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post #16 of 32 Old 08-03-2009, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

I humbly disagree. Internal (digital) TV tuners will process DD and output DD from digital cable (QAM) sources via optical/coax audio outputs when available.

I am not aware of any TV that only outputs DD from OTA (8VSB), but not cable (QAM).

I don't disagree, it's just that I've never seen a TV advertised as such. Most of the time you will see a spec for a TV that mentions it's optical output as being able to be connected to a receiver and outputing DD from OTA sources. If they do it from cable too, thats great.

The OP seems to have one of those rare TVs that will also pass DD from connected HDMI sources.

edit: I see his TV says that it will pass DD from "digital" broadcasts, not just OTA.
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post #17 of 32 Old 08-03-2009, 10:08 AM
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deepblueNC,

You may be able to get expert help if you post your question about DD and cable via the optical output (or setup and features) in this "official" thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1129222
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post #18 of 32 Old 08-03-2009, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Ratman, thanks for your help. I was thinking about the same thing, testing what happens with OTA. But my concern is that when I scan OTA channels, my settings (deleted channels, channel names, etc.) will be cleared and I have to reprogram everything when I switch back to cable. But again, this is probably the best way to determine the cause of the problem.

I noticed that for specifications of some other Sony TV's e.g., W5100, Z5199, Sony explicitly state that "Connects to the optical audio input of digital audio equipment that is PCM/Dolby Digital compatible." and also 5.1-channel audio out. These are not stated for my TV.

I saw 5.1 channels on my receiver when I connect my blu-ray player to TV and pass the audio to the receiver through optical cord, but I do not recall whether it was Dolby Digital (this may be a stupid sentence). I don't know whether you can have 5.1 channels without Dolby digital. I'll check it this evening whether the Dolby sign was also on.

Given that specifications for other Sony TV models explicitly state 5.1-channel audio out, but my TV's specifications don't makes me suspicious that the problem might be the TV.

Only if there's somebody who has Time Warner cable without the box and getting 5.1-channel audio out, then I know for sure the problem is the TV

Or only if there's somebody who has the same TV but getting 5.1-channel audio over the air, then I know the problem is Time Warner.
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post #19 of 32 Old 08-03-2009, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I verified that the TV passes through DD 5.1 audio when the source is my blu-ray player.
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post #20 of 32 Old 08-05-2009, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I tested the TV with OTA and I still could not get DD 5.1 for a tv show that is in DD 5.1. So, the problem is not Time Warner. Sony confirmed that I should be able to get DD 5.1 when the source is TV's tuner, so I'm guessing that the problem is probably the TV's tuner. Sony support asked me call an authorized service and have them check the TV.
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post #21 of 32 Old 08-05-2009, 09:35 PM
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In Honolulu, none of the local network affiliates broadcasts DD 5.1, even though the networks supply them with DD 5.1. Also, the locals here do not pass DD 5.1 to cable or satellite. Evidently, they do not care to buy the necessary equipment. So, this is also a possibility: even though the networks advertise DD 5.1 and make it available to their affiliates, the locals are not passing it on to you.

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post #22 of 32 Old 08-06-2009, 04:58 AM
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Perhaps... but the ATSC standard for audio is Dobly Digital. Even though the local stations may not be 5.1 it should be (at least) 2.0

With that, it still doesn't explain why deepblueNC's AVR shows LPCM2.0 and not DD2.0 when using the internal tuner, yet passes DD5.1 out the optical when using an extenal source via HDMI.
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post #23 of 32 Old 08-06-2009, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Ratman,

A sony authorized technician will come to my house on Wednesday and check the TV. I believe that the TV's tuner is defective. I'll figure this out on Wednesday.

I know that in my area TV stations broadcasts in DD 5.1. Also I confirm that other people are able to get DD 5.1 without cable box from clear QAM channels. So, the problem is not TV stations or Time Warner.

According to Sony tech people, my TV should output DD 5.1 only when the source is TV's tuner.

I'm guessing that the TV passes DD5.1 out the optical when using an external source via HDMI, because of the Bravia sync. Both the TV and receiver are Sony and they are synced.
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post #24 of 32 Old 10-13-2009, 06:33 PM
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Deepblue,

What did you find out about the 5.1 issue? I have the same problem. Philly area, just got a SONY VE5, and 5.1 TV programs shows up as pro logic on my receiver. I get OTA signal, and run optical cable between TV and receiver.
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post #25 of 32 Old 10-23-2009, 04:17 PM
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The V5100 series does not output 5.1 DD when using the internal ATSC or QAM tuner.

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post #26 of 32 Old 10-23-2009, 04:26 PM
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Why are you going through the TV in the first place? Run the digital audio out from the cable box directly to your receiver.

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post #27 of 32 Old 10-23-2009, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rishid View Post

The V5100 series does not output 5.1 DD when using the internal ATSC or QAM tuner.

With respect, that's wrong. Check the audio menu for a choice between DD and PCM on the digital output.

Also, I can't see why any cable company would need/want to change what the TV station gives everyone else. Make sure you are tuned to the HDTV channel and not the digital SD channel.
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post #28 of 32 Old 11-20-2009, 06:30 PM
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I have the 46v5100 and just hooked it up to my fios dvr via HDMI. I ran two optical cables to test, one from the TV and one from the DVR... both going to my receiver. The one from the dvr shows DD 5.1 and the other one shows PCM pro logic for the same DD 5.1 source. What the hell?!?!?!

I am SHOCKED that this TV does this. Audio options don't help on the TV. Can this really be the case?????
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post #29 of 32 Old 11-20-2009, 06:37 PM
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You mean your TV is downmixing 5.1 to stereo when the sound is routed through it?

Yes, that happens with a lot of TVs, and it is usually nothing you can adjust. There are a few models that will pass 5.1 through, though. Don't ask me why it is that way (that's why I always go direct through the receiver.)

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post #30 of 32 Old 11-20-2009, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spindled View Post

I have the 46v5100 and just hooked it up to my fios dvr via HDMI. I ran two optical cables to test, one from the TV and one from the DVR... both going to my receiver. The one from the dvr shows DD 5.1 and the other one shows PCM pro logic for the same DD 5.1 source. What the hell?!?!?!

I am SHOCKED that this TV does this. Audio options don't help on the TV. Can this really be the case?????

Your TV is a "stereo" device; "stereo" as in 2 channels. As stated above, your TV "downmixes" anything with more than 2 channels down to 2 channels so it can paly them throght its... 2 channels. It then outputs the downmixed signal to the receiver.

I'm shocked that you're SHOCKED that it does this.

As I said 2 posts before yours, run the signal directly to the receiver.

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