Audio over Cat5/5e/6 cables - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 135 Old 09-02-2009, 02:32 PM
 
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POTS is the oldest "electronic audio system" in existence, it uses a differential audio connection between central office and each telephone.
ITT/Canon XLR connectors were originally developed as AC power connectors.
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post #122 of 135 Old 09-02-2009, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

I have seen and worked with the evolution of sound systems and cabling for many years all over the country, so I have been intimately involved with this for many moons.

I'm sure your many moons have yielded much valuble experience however if none of the systems you have experience with is equivalent to the loop I described it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. This would appear to be the case per your description of your experience. None of the systems you describe maximizes loop area to make the resulting antenna effect gross and obvious enough to really be noticeable in a typical ambient EM environment.

Cheap RCA cables bundle the plus and minus conductors in the same cable housing minimizing loop area even if it is not twisted within the housing. This is also true with the mic cords and XLR cables I have seen.

Bottom line is because you haven't noticed the effect using industry standard cabling designed to minimize it is certainly no proof it does not exist.
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post #123 of 135 Old 09-02-2009, 04:18 PM
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Since UTP data cable is most effective when used in conjunction with the differential ckt for common-mode noise rejection, do all NICs, routers, hubs, etc. on our computer ntwk have differential ckt for data x'mission? Or it is not needed due to Packet switching mode? Can someone shed some light? Thanks.

Vin
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post #124 of 135 Old 09-02-2009, 04:25 PM
 
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Quote:


do all NICs, routers, hubs, etc. on our computer ntwk have differential ckt for data x'mission?

Yes, it's the transformer present on all NICs and Network ports.
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post #125 of 135 Old 09-02-2009, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLS View Post

Since UTP data cable is most effective when used in conjunction with the differential ckt for common-mode noise rejection, do all NICs, routers, hubs, etc. on our computer ntwk have differential ckt for data x'mission? Or it is not needed due to Packet switching mode? Can someone shed some light? Thanks.

I can only speak to the designs I've been involved with or products I'm aware of. All that I have experience wih use differential signaling on the ehternet side.
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post #126 of 135 Old 09-02-2009, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by duvetyne View Post

Yes, it's the transformer present on all NICs and Network ports.

The phys I'm familair with send/recieve differential signals whether the transformers are present or not.
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post #127 of 135 Old 09-02-2009, 04:54 PM
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Those of us who work with line and mic level signals day in and day out know that UTP cable can easily be used and IS used with balun systems for problem free, long distance xmission of these signals. in hundreds of thousands of installations all over the world.

You are attempting to introduce claims into the discussion that are simply not backed up in the real world or germane to the OPs question. I have asked you to post a single installation or device that uses UTP in a single ended, unbalanced configuration for audio or baseband video xmission and I am still waiting.
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post #128 of 135 Old 09-02-2009, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

You are attempting to introduce claims into the discussion that are simply not backed up in the real world or germane to the OPs question. I have asked you to post a single installation or device that uses UTP in a single ended, unbalanced configuration for audio or baseband video xmission and I am still waiting.

A theoretical discussion of how UTP may be beneficial as compared to other theoretically possible implementations of cables absolutely is germane to the OP's question. I happen to prefer to take a wider view of the world which includes the possibility of non standard cabling being used. It is the preferred engineering approach as opposed to jumping to conclusions which may or may not be valid. The OP never mentioned which cables to compare the UTP with and so not jumping to conclusions about which type he prefers them be compared with makes sense.

I'm not sure what you expect from me regarding posting an example. I stated originally that I have heard there are some who like using it. I don't have any pictures of an instance since it is not something I've tried and am simply not exposed to many, if any, other installations than my own. You might take up your disagreement with someone who actually thinks the benefits of UTP are necessary in their system. I have not found cables to be the most pressing issue with my own system and so have not taken the time to try cables which I've theorized will offer improvements over what I use now. Someday perhaps I will get the time to try some UTP, STP, coax etc.
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post #129 of 135 Old 09-02-2009, 05:28 PM
 
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All that I have experience wih use differential signaling on the ehternet side.

is there another side?
All ethernet over TP uses differential signalling, it's a standard.
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post #130 of 135 Old 09-02-2009, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duvetyne View Post

is there another side?
All ethernet over TP uses differential signalling, it's a standard.

Of course, the cpu/mac side...typically single ended.
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post #131 of 135 Old 09-02-2009, 06:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ugly1 View Post

Of course, the cpu/mac side...typically single ended.

Correct, internal TTL like communications is typically single ended, just like internal signalling in most audio and video equipment, and pretty much everything else.
Not that it has any bearing on the topic, but since you brought it up, a PCI express NIC communicates within the PC over a differential serial bus....not everything is single ended, as you claim.
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post #132 of 135 Old 09-02-2009, 06:25 PM
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There is no more flesh on this horse.
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post #133 of 135 Old 09-02-2009, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duvetyne View Post

a PCI express NIC communicates within the PC over a differential serial bus....not everything is single ended, as you claim.

I did say "typically" as in not always. My world is embedded products with no backplanes and no need for PCI. You would have a good point though if you were to say that PC's using PCI are a significant market which I suppose would logically employ mac/phys using the signaling of whatever bus they are expected to be used with. Not my world though so I really can't comment on that. Maybe "typically" was too strong a word and should have been replaced with "sometimes".
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post #134 of 135 Old 09-02-2009, 06:48 PM
 
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My world is embedded products with no backplanes and no need for PCI.

I've written firmware for embedded devices that utilise a PCI buss, they don't always have to have edge connectors on backplane, the specification can be used internally as well.
But again, you're way off topic
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post #135 of 135 Old 09-02-2009, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duvetyne View Post

I've written firmware for embedded devices that utilise a PCI buss, they don't always have to have edge connectors on backplane, the specification can be used internally as well.

Interesting. What is the purpose of using PCI with no edge connectors?
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