Which receiver to buy for 5.1...here's my setup.. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 41 Old 11-27-2009, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I use this receiver currently: http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...ETYP=ATTRIBUTE

I use these B1.2 Athenas (Rear): http://www.athenaspeakers.com/produc...pecifications/

I use Bic Acoustech HT-88's (Front): http://www.overstock.com/Electronics...9/product.html

I use an Bic Acoustech HT-65 for the center

I use a nice 10" sub, comparable to a BIC F12. I forget the specs and I'm shopping away from home.

Use: I use my HT system for gaming, movies, and music pretty much evenly. I listen to rock music, play video games like COD and Forza, and watch a ton of movies. I watch mostly action movies, listen to rock, hard rock, classic rock. As an example of my taste, i'll say i like led zeppelin, pink floyd, killswitch engage and disturbed.

Budget: I am not really on a budget I am just looking for a good bang for my dollar and what fits best for me. I'd like to keep costs around 200 or so if at all possible.

Room Size: My room is about 18' wide x 25' long x 8' tall. I don't plan on living here forever.

Appearance: Everything else is black, so I'm kinda looking for a black receiver.

I was thinking about getting this receiver: http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V363...385537&sr=1-21

The main reason I am looking to upgrade the receiver is because I can barely hear my rear speakers and it might not hurt to upgrade to something with HDMI for the future. I'm not sure if I should be upgrading just for HDMI, but I do need more power for the surrounds and I could use a few more features, my current receiver is pretty basic, but sounds great to me.

Tell me what you guys think and throw some model numbers out there if you wish.

I'm looking for the best bang for my buck and this Yamaha caught my eye.
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post #2 of 41 Old 11-28-2009, 03:12 PM
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In my opinion, try and stretch the budget and get a receiver with MultEQ. I was AMAZED at the difference that Audyssey MultEQ made. Its got Equilization for the subwoofer and does a very good job. I also have the Acoustech HT-88's and the HT-85 center. I have the Denon 2310CI and was very surprised at how much of a difference it made. On that note, I'd recommend the Denon 1610. It has the Audyssey MultEQ and a really great sound. The only drawback is that it has 75wpc vs your current 80wpc but given the efficiency of the Acoustechs, I dont think you'll even notice. It really makes the Acoustechs shine. I think you will have a hard time finding a good receiver that supports any of the new audio codecs for under 200. But you could probably find a good sale on the Denon 1610 that will keep you from having to stretch that budget too far. You may check out some of the Onkyo's too... a lot of their models feature Audyssey MultEQ.
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post #3 of 41 Old 11-28-2009, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I'll be sure to check all those out, if they are really that much better for 300 dollars or so, I am willing to step up my budget for the right receiver

I'm not really sure what all the newer receivers are capable of, so I'll have to do a lot of reading.

I'm probably going to buy the receiver used too. I've had nothing but good experiences so far with used equipment and you can get such a good deal on them.
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post #4 of 41 Old 11-28-2009, 08:50 PM
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if you currently need, or will need in the future, audio processing over an HDMI cable, then consider a Denon 590 / 1610 or an Onkyo SR507 or a Yamaha V565. These are all over your $200 budget, but anything you can get for $200, like the Onkyo SR307, will not be able to do HDMI audio (they are video pass-thru only) or decode the new HD lossless codecs available on blu-ray DVDs
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post #5 of 41 Old 11-29-2009, 10:55 AM
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I'd second the recommendation to spend a little more for a 7.1 receiver that will accept the new audio codecs over HDMI.

Also, research the inputs and make sure you have extra - With everything HD now, I'd recommend at least one open HDMI input in case you decide to add some new component.

Peter
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post #6 of 41 Old 11-30-2009, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking at the Onkyo 507 then. Looks like it has good reviews and a decent price. I thought the zone 2 feature was kind of cool too, HDMI, 80 watts for all channels. What more would I need?

Am I really getting anything more with the 7.1 and the Yamaha or Denon?

The 507 looks to be a pretty good deal.
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post #7 of 41 Old 11-30-2009, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allbaugh_04 View Post

I'm looking at the Onkyo 507 then. Looks like it has good reviews and a decent price. I thought the zone 2 feature was kind of cool too, HDMI, 80 watts for all channels. What more would I need?

Am I really getting anything more with the 7.1 and the Yamaha or Denon?

The 507 looks to be a pretty good deal.

Yea, the 507 only has Audyssey 2EQ and the Denon has Audyssey MultEQ... BIG difference. With 7.1 you can also use 5.1 with bi amping on the mains if your speakers support that. There are other little upgrades too.
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post #8 of 41 Old 11-30-2009, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I found the 507 for $225. Good deal right?

I will read more about the Denon 1610....thanks. You said some of the Onkyo's have the multi-band EQ, do you know which ones off hand?
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post #9 of 41 Old 11-30-2009, 08:26 PM
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http://cgi.****.com/DENON-AVR-1610-H...ht_3060wt_1147

Replace **** with e bay

The Audyssey 2EQ has very low resolution EQ for full range speakers and NO subwoofer equalization and calculates from I think only 2 listening positions. The MultEQ has higher resolution EQing for full range speakers and a good EQ for just the Sub and calculates from up to 6 listening positions. It works wonders. I have FR graphs of my room to prove it lol.
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post #10 of 41 Old 11-30-2009, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike2069 View Post

http://cgi.****.com/DENON-AVR-1610-H...ht_3060wt_1147

Replace **** with e bay

The Audyssey 2EQ has very low resolution EQ for full range speakers and NO subwoofer equalization and calculates from I think only 2 listening positions. The MultEQ has higher resolution EQing for full range speakers and a good EQ for just the Sub and calculates from up to 6 listening positions. It works wonders. I have FR graphs of my room to prove it lol.

Ha, that's the exact one I was looking at on ebay. Is a full equalizer worth 75 more dollars? I know it's a good feature, cuz my deck in my car has that. I like it a lot....can this receiver be found for less money than 300? audiogon doesn't have any used ones for sale.
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post #11 of 41 Old 11-30-2009, 08:42 PM
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Whether or not it is worth it is really up to you. For me it definitely was. The Sub EQ alone was worth that to me. For prices you could try 6ave and also electronics-expo. I know for electronics-expo the posted price might be high, but you can haggle with them (they price match at the least) in their online chat by quite a bit. Thats where I got mine from.
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post #12 of 41 Old 11-30-2009, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you sir, i really appreciate this. How much did you pay if you don't mind me asking.
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post #13 of 41 Old 11-30-2009, 08:57 PM
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I think you should buy the Onkyo TX-SR304S 5.1 Channel Home Theater Receiver from the Amazon. The sound quality of this receiver is really great.
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post #14 of 41 Old 11-30-2009, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allbaugh_04 View Post

Thank you sir, i really appreciate this. How much did you pay if you don't mind me asking.

I got the 2310CI for 560+shipping about a month ago.
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post #15 of 41 Old 11-30-2009, 09:08 PM
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I think you should buy the Onkyo TX-SR304S 5.1 Channel Home Theater Receiver from the Amazon. The sound quality of this receiver is really great.

What???? That thing is several years old and it doesnt decode any of the HD formats. Its also lacking several other features that have been discussed here.
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post #16 of 41 Old 11-30-2009, 09:12 PM
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allbaugh_04, you could also try the Denon AVR-590 and save a few bucks... its pretty much the same thing as the 1610, it is just the version that they distribute in retailers like best buy and circuit city. The 1610 is usually the one offered in the 'specialty' shops.
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post #17 of 41 Old 11-30-2009, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike2069 View Post

allbaugh_04, you could also try the Denon AVR-590 and save a few bucks... its pretty much the same thing as the 1610, it is just the version that they distribute in retailers like best buy and circuit city. The 1610 is usually the one offered in the 'specialty' shops.

Thanks for all the input guys.

So there isn't much difference between the 1610 and 590? Ok I will look into it.
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post #18 of 41 Old 12-01-2009, 07:46 AM
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when pricing Denon products, try to stay with a Denon authorized internet dealer....they will honor the warranty on units purchased from authorized dealers only.

http://www.usa.denon.com/OnlineETailers.asp

watch for excellent sale coupon codes from 6ave.com
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post #19 of 41 Old 12-01-2009, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I've been reading over these and looking at reviews, but I still got one simple question.

Are brands like Yamaha, Denon and Onkyo relatively the same anymore, sound quality wise?

I'm pretty much paying for features correct? I'm starting to go way over my intended price, but I suppose I can live with $300. Is there anywhere besides amazon and ebay that has decent prices?
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post #20 of 41 Old 12-01-2009, 12:29 PM
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www.accessories4less.com - authorized dealers for factory refurbished Onkyo and Marantz

www.newegg.com - authorized dealer for Onkyo

www.vanns.com www.6ave.com www.frys.com www.abt.com - authorized dealer for Onkyo and several other brands. The best way to know is to check the manufacturers web site for authorized dealers. (like the Denon link above)

But currently, your best bet within your "expanded budget" may well be the Onkyo SR507 from www.newegg.com (add to cart for sale price with free shipping)

To answer your question, in order of build quality, the three manufacturer's might be rated: Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha for units with entry level pricing.
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post #21 of 41 Old 12-01-2009, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok I did A LOT of reading tonight and i think it helped a lot.

Accessories4less had the Onkyo SR507 for the cheapest price. $225 or $250 shipped. (Refurbished)

I did some quick searches on the other sites, they were either sold out, didn't have it or it cost a lot more.

I then went searching for the Denon AVR590. I noticed right away how terrible people are for reviewing equipment. If there wasn't one little thing they didn't have, they would give it a bad rating etc. So i quit reading reviews and started using cnet, their reviews seem pretty good.

I found an "authorized dealer" on ebay that will give me the full warranty, and i can get the Denon AVR590 for $300 shipped.

Probably the best way to go right?

I also stumbled upon the Sony STR-DN1000, it looked pretty decent for about $325, what do you guys think of that?

If you guys don't think anything else is good for me, I'll probably get the Denon, it looks to be a pretty good unit, not too many HDMI connections, but I should be ok in that department. I did so much reading, my head hurts, literally. So I can probably continue this tomorrow, I didn't spend much time looking at Yamaha's yet. So I might want to do that yet. I'm leaning towards the Denon just for the MultiEQ at the moment. Seems to be it's selling point.
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post #22 of 41 Old 12-02-2009, 05:52 AM
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unless the eBay seller is a direct outlet for one of the stores listed in the link provided to Denon authorized internet dealers....I would be VERY reluctant to buy a "new" Denon from any eBay seller. The guy can "say" anything he wants, but you will not actually know if Denon will honor the warranty until you have a problem much later....

Check this thread on the Denon 590/1610 and see if 6ave.com or ABT.com have any current coupon deals going.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1153086 and the AVS member "batpig" is very knowledgable about all things Denon.
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post #23 of 41 Old 12-02-2009, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allbaugh_04 View Post

Ok, I've been reading over these and looking at reviews, but I still got one simple question.

Are brands like Yamaha, Denon and Onkyo relatively the same anymore, sound quality wise?

I'm pretty much paying for features correct?

Correct. Find the features that you need, then find the best deal, regardless of brand. Buy and enjoy
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post #24 of 41 Old 12-02-2009, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok I've done some more reading guys.

The ebay link i provided and darkmart.com are both authorized dealers for the AVR 590. They are refurbished items and sell for about $300 each.

I thought I really wanted the AVR 590 until I stumbled upon the AVR 589. They look quite similar features wise, but i have to do a bit more reading. They both have the same EQ, but I think the AVR 589 has one less HDMI port and does not pass audio through HDMI. Is that really a big deal though or a deal breaker? My TV has digital optical output, so I could just run a wire to the receiver and have great audio sound correct? I think that should work fine...not sure, I am somewhat new to this stuff. It also looks like the 589 might not decode the new blu ray sound yet? But I don't even have a blu ray player yet.

Now would this be a good idea to opt for the 589 vs. the 590? $170 vs $300 shipped. Both are from authorized dealers and have warranties. The connections are a bit different on the back and I'm still reading about the features, but it seems like they are pretty close.

590


589
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post #25 of 41 Old 12-02-2009, 10:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Well what do you guys think?

Denon AVR 589, 590?

Or maybe a Yamaha HTR-6140?

Onkyo TX-SR606?

Any other suggested receivers?
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post #26 of 41 Old 12-02-2009, 10:37 PM
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You wouldn't want to use an optical from the TV to the receiver for your audio connection; my understanding is that many, if not all, TVs don't pass the audio straight through so you will get a downmixed 2.1 signal out of the TVs optical port. It's generally best to hook the audio straight from the source to the receiver.

HDMI makes it easy, running an HDMI from each source to the receiver, and then just one HDMI from the receiver to the TV. HDMI is also the only way to transmit the newer, lossless (and higher quality lossy) audio codecs found on Blu-rays.

I would say get the 1610/590 if you can afford it. If your budget is really tight and the 589 can satisfy all your needs, then...
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post #27 of 41 Old 12-02-2009, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post

You wouldn't want to use an optical from the TV to the receiver for your audio connection; my understanding is that many, if not all, TVs don't pass the audio straight through so you will get a downmixed 2.1 signal out of the TVs optical port. It's generally best to hook the audio straight from the source to the receiver.

HDMI makes it easy, running an HDMI from each source to the receiver, and then just one HDMI from the receiver to the TV. HDMI is also the only way to transmit the newer, lossless (and higher quality lossy) audio codecs found on Blu-rays.

I would say get the 1610/590 if you can afford it. If your budget is really tight and the 589 can satisfy all your needs, then...

I read through my tv manual earlier tonight and if I remember right if i use the RCA output it would be 2.1, and I actually did hear sound from the rear speakers, weird I know.

I have not tried the the optical output yet, but if my memory serves me correctly, I read in the manual that the optical should output 5.1. If I connect the PC (HDMI) to the TV (HDMI) then the TV (optical) to the Denon 589. It is should be in 5.1. I'll read it again to make sure, thanks for bringing that up.

I don't really have a budget, I just don't want to pay for features I don't need. Basically I'm a tight wad.
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post #28 of 41 Old 12-03-2009, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allbaugh_04 View Post

I read through my tv manual earlier tonight and if I remember right if i use the RCA output it would be 2.1, and I actually did hear sound from the rear speakers, weird I know.

I have not tried the the optical output yet, but if my memory serves me correctly, I read in the manual that the optical should output 5.1. If I connect the PC (HDMI) to the TV (HDMI) then the TV (optical) to the Denon 589. It is should be in 5.1. I'll read it again to make sure, thanks for bringing that up.

I don't really have a budget, I just don't want to pay for features I don't need. Basically I'm a tight wad.

You heard sound from the rear speakers because your receiver is taking two discreet channels and turning them into 5 channels (Pro-Logic). I have my optical coming directly into my receiver from the TV and get 5 discreet channels (5.1 Dolby Digital) and it is the recommended way. All other devices I would connect directly into your AVR though and NOT through your TV. Optical does not have the same amount of bandwidth that HDMI has so an HDMI HD Audio signal such as DTS HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD will be compressed to fit the bandwidth that Optical allows. By connecting to the AVR and allowing the AVR to switch your Audio and Video signals, you'll get uncompressed audio regardless of the format. To answer your question about the AVR-589... it does not support the Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio formats that are now on Blu-Ray (my main reason for upgrading my AVR). If thats not something that you care about, then the 589 should be fine, it is just a last years model. I wouldn't even consider the Sony.
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post #29 of 41 Old 12-03-2009, 10:11 AM
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590 - This has the newer HD audio formats and another HDMI input compared to the 589, correct??? If so, that makes the choice seem simple to me.

But then, you never listed your other components so I can't tell if the 590 gives you enough I/O for use today and extra for future expansion. The SVID and composite inputs and the Red/White audio inputs are things you'll likely never use, especially going into the future with HD video formats.

Peter
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post #30 of 41 Old 12-03-2009, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike2069 View Post

You heard sound from the rear speakers because your receiver is taking two discreet channels and turning them into 5 channels (Pro-Logic).

OK, that makes sense, and probably why it sounds like crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike2069 View Post

I have my optical coming directly into my receiver from the TV and get 5 discreet channels (5.1 Dolby Digital) and it is the recommended way. All other devices I would connect directly into your AVR though and NOT through your TV. Optical does not have the same amount of bandwidth that HDMI has so an HDMI HD Audio signal such as DTS HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD will be compressed to fit the bandwidth that Optical allows. By connecting to the AVR and allowing the AVR to switch your Audio and Video signals, you'll get uncompressed audio regardless of the format. To answer your question about the AVR-589... it does not support the Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio formats that are now on Blu-Ray (my main reason for upgrading my AVR). If thats not something that you care about, then the 589 should be fine, it is just a last years model. I wouldn't even consider the Sony.

I'm going to do some searching and read about optical then. I am not educated on that, thanks for pointing this out. If you know any good links, i'll gladly accept them, but I'm sure I can find some information tonight and read about optical.

Thanks for the advice on the Sony.

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Originally Posted by JoshDorhyke View Post

590 - This has the newer HD audio formats and another HDMI input compared to the 589, correct??? If so, that makes the choice seem simple to me.

But then, you never listed your other components so I can't tell if the 590 gives you enough I/O for use today and extra for future expansion. The SVID and composite inputs and the Red/White audio inputs are things you'll likely never use, especially going into the future with HD video formats.

Peter

I have no blu ray player, and I don't intend on buying one for a few years. I could always sell the 589 and upgrade later, I figure.

I've never heard any digital audio or video. I have that old Yamaha (see post 1) All the connections are analog and some of the speaker connections don't even use banana connectors (i think they are called).

I live in Nebraska, keep in mind. Not many people I know have 5.1 systems, blu ray players etc. I've never heard digital sound or even the new blu ray formats.

Are the new blu ray sound formats REALLY that much better than regular dolby and those formats of sound? Is it really worth the upgrade now? Or wait a few years when blu ray players and discs are cheaper. I don't have to have the latest technology.

Thanks for all the input guys.
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