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post #31 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 08:50 AM
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That cable connection shown does absolutely zilch that any standard off the shelf RCA cable will not do. Electrically the circuit is identical.

No where in the realm of professional audio (you know, the people who actually know and understand audio and the various functions) will you find "telescoping shields". Lifting the shield on one end is done to isolate the ground connection between 2 devices that use fully balanced interconnections.

Go ahead and build the cable shown , then take an ohmmeter set on the lowest resistance scale and measure pin to pin and shield to shield on the connectors.

You will get exactly the same reading as if you used a standard RCA cable. It makes no difference how many wires you attach on one end and how few you connect on the other, if there is a single conductor path from point A to point B there will be continuity and the will be no alteration of the signal path.
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post #32 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

That cable connection shown does absolutely zilch that any standard off the shelf RCA cable will not do. Electrically the circuit is identical.
No where in the realm of professional audio (you know, the people who actually know and understand audio and the various functions) will you find "telescoping shields". Lifting the shield on one end is done to isolate the ground connection between 2 devices that use fully balanced interconnections.

Go ahead and build the cable shown , then take an ohmmeter set on the lowest resistance scale and measure pin to pin and shield to shield on the connectors.

You will get exactly the same reading as if you used a standard RCA cable. It makes no difference how many wires you attach on one end and how few you connect on the other, if there is a single conductor path from point A to point B there will be continuity and the will be no alteration of the signal path.

I think that was Chris' and the poster of the links position as well. But the fact remains that such cables are evidently sold and marketed as "directional".

Clever marketing combined with junk science.
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post #33 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 11:02 AM
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The hubris and and unfortunate but evidently successful sales BS that gets people suckered into directional cables, cryo treated wire, cable lifters, nirvana inducing power cables etc saddens me greatly. People take the simplest, most nondescript part of a system and endow it with attributes that are wholly unknown in the world of physics.

Why does no one talk about the noise floor of a given transistor or IC? Because to do so would require some modicum of actual knowledge and exposure to numbers and concepts outside the realm of most sales people and snake oil hawkers. People talk about audiophile grade capacitors without knowing what a capacitor does or where it appears in the circuit.

Why is no mention ever made of the metallic alloy that is solder? Solder is comprised of terrible conductors but is used simply for its ease of application, durability and ability to firmly connect other conductors.

Once we get past the myriad of alloys and varying conductivity issues with the PCB, the assembly hardware, and the components all of a sudden the mega buck cables can correct any audio discrepancies or shortfalls and function as an active equalizer.

Is there any hope?
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post #34 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 11:17 AM
 
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Why does no one talk about the noise floor of a given transistor or IC? Because to do so would require some modicum of actual knowledge and exposure to numbers and concepts outside the realm of most sales people and snake oil hawkers.

very true. Most don't understand the very basics of electronics, yet feel they are entitled to 'school' us on 'what they've heard' or 'what they've been told'.
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post #35 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

The hubris and and unfortunate but evidently successful sales BS that gets people suckered into directional cables, cryo treated wire, cable lifters, nirvana inducing power cables etc saddens me greatly. People take the simplest, most nondescript part of a system and endow it with attributes that are wholly unknown in the world of physics.

Why does no one talk about the noise floor of a given transistor or IC? Because to do so would require some modicum of actual knowledge and exposure to numbers and concepts outside the realm of most sales people and snake oil hawkers. People talk about audiophile grade capacitors without knowing what a capacitor does or where it appears in the circuit.

Why is no mention ever made of the metallic alloy that is solder? Solder is comprised of terrible conductors but is used simply for its ease of application, durability and ability to firmly connect other conductors.

Once we get past the myriad of alloys and varying conductivity issues with the PCB, the assembly hardware, and the components all of a sudden the mega buck cables can correct any audio discrepancies or shortfalls and function as an active equalizer.

Is there any hope?

Here is some audio grade solder.

Or how about this stuff from Cardas. It's only $72 for a 1lb spool!
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post #36 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 11:19 AM
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

The hubris and and unfortunate but evidently successful sales BS that gets people suckered into directional cables, cryo treated wire, cable lifters, nirvana inducing power cables etc saddens me greatly. People take the simplest, most nondescript part of a system and endow it with attributes that are wholly unknown in the world of physics.

This has been happening since humans could buy or trade gadgets and gizmos. I don't see this scenario ever ending. Technology moves too fast.

Quote:


Why does no one talk about the noise floor of a given transistor or IC? Because to do so would require some modicum of actual knowledge and exposure to numbers and concepts outside the realm of most sales people and snake oil hawkers. People talk about audiophile grade capacitors without knowing what a capacitor does or where it appears in the circuit.

Lets face facts....transistors and capacitors are not very sexy. Maybe you could dress some up and sell them as upgrades, then I'll bet you have a new market.

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Why is no mention ever made of the metallic alloy that is solder? Solder is comprised of terrible conductors but is used simply for its ease of application, durability and ability to firmly connect other conductors.

Same as above

Quote:


Once we get past the myriad of alloys and varying conductivity issues with the PCB, the assembly hardware, and the components all of a sudden the mega buck cables can correct any audio discrepancies or shortfalls and function as an active equalizer.

Is there any hope?

Keep hope Alive

My Home Theater Site:

DJ-Theater
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post #37 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by duvetyne View Post

very true. Most don't understand the very basics of electronics, yet feel they are entitled to 'school' us on 'what they've heard' or 'what they've been told'.

Yeah and then there is the select few who may know what they are talking about but want the rest to bow down and kiss their feet and pay homage to their supreme knowledge.

That or they are just plain arrogant.
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post #38 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 11:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Easyaspie View Post

Yeah and then there is the select few who may know what they are talking about but want the rest to bow down and kiss their feet and pay homage to their supreme knowledge.

That or they are just plain arrogant.



Don't be so hard on yourself, you're not that arrogant.
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post #39 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 12:03 PM
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Don't be so hard on yourself, you're not that arrogant.

Thanks buddy.
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post #40 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 12:47 PM
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Cable lifters actually do improve the experience. They raise the cables up off the floor so you can get the vacuum cleaner under them, keeping the floor and cables clean and beautiful. They don't do anything for the audio itself, of course

Selden
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post #41 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Cable lifters actually do improve the experience. They raise the cables up off the floor so you can get the vacuum cleaner under them, keeping the floor and cables clean and beautiful. They don't do anything for the audio itself, of course



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post #42 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema mad View Post

Its Exactly as Chris Wiggles stated ,

With this configuration (unbalanced Telescoping Shield)
You have 3 wires, for argument sake the 2 white (+) /blue (-) wires carry the signal..
White wire (+) soldered to center pins of RCA's, Blue wire (-) soldered to outer pins and the third wire (shield) is tied/soldered to the RCA outer pin(-) Blue wire but only at the "Source component end" but left unconnected at the Amp or Subwoofer end,
the Shield(third wire) runs the full length of the RCA cable but is usualy cut just under where the outer jacket of the cable ends and the RCA plug is terminated
(Sub or Amp end), thus why some cables such as the Monster M1000 has A direction Arrow...

Page 3 of this PDF with wire diagram should inlighten you

http://www.diycable.com/main/pdf/Canare.pdf

Cheers...

I think it may be as Gizmologist said, just using plain logic here... If the blue wire is soldered to the same common polarity as the shield wire, then just because the shield is left disconnected at the other end changes nothing. The blue wire is still connected therefore completes the circuit.

BTW, isn't the Monster MC1000 a HDMI cable? Anyway, all of Monster's Subwoofer Cables have directional arrows as do Belkin PureAV and many other manufacturers on the market. Which is why I really wanted this clarified.
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post #43 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 03:13 PM
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I have never paid more/extra for a cable because they had arrows.
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post #44 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 04:19 PM
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If there are no arrows on a cable, do the electrons get all confuzzled and just stay put inside the wire? What happens to the sound?

I think I may post this on one of those unbelievably ridiculous cable sites.

These people should just hand me their wallets as they should NOT be around money. I will take care of it for them.
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post #45 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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In all fairness Gizmologist, I believe the marketing aims at a theory of reducing interference or "hum".

However, as mentioned above I agree with your rational that even in the circuit that cinema mad posted, there is still a complete circuit through the blue wire. So how this reduces interference is beyond my understanding.
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post #46 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 08:09 PM
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It is beyond ANYONE's understanding because it is 100% BS
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post #47 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 08:34 PM
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I ment Monster M1000 RCA I think 350 has it as well..

Whether IT is BS or not The FACT remains that this type of RCA cable does exist and I provided proof of it & what the OP was asking for..

The OP 100dB clearly misunderstood the concept from what he attempted to do with his RCA cable mentioned in his first post..

Cheers...
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post #48 of 189 Old 04-01-2010, 09:54 PM
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What we are trying to do is to educate people. We hope they actually learn some basic physics, basic audio and most important, how to spot 100% BS, claptrap, garbage, nonsense, sheer stupidity, lunacy and to take the appropriate steps and flush it. Flush it twice please.
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post #49 of 189 Old 04-02-2010, 03:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema mad View Post

The OP 100dB clearly misunderstood the concept from what he attempted to do with his RCA cable mentioned in his first post..

Yes, I "misunderstood" the concept but at no point did I claim to have a full understanding which is why I made the post in the first place. In actuality it is entirely fair to misunderstand a concept that was BS in the first place. Isn't that the whole point of the uni directional cable theory, to mislead people into thinking that it does something that is in reality impossible. So, that being said there is no "concept" to misunderstand as the whole uni directional theory is BS by all accounts of whatever "proof" has been posted here.

And yes, what I did to the experimental RCA cable highlighted my misunderstanding of the concept, but to clarify I did this before I realised how obvious it was that it was imminently going to fail as the circuit had been broken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

What we are trying to do is to educate people. We hope they actually learn some basic physics, basic audio and most important, how to spot 100% BS, claptrap, garbage, nonsense, sheer stupidity, lunacy and to take the appropriate steps and flush it. Flush it twice please.

Yes, this is exactly what I was trying to achieve. I am sure this is more than most people out there have done before buying into some snake oil theory. As I am about to commence my own cable production business (and more), at least it is evident that I am completely against snake oil and BS theories and instead would like to build my business based on genuine and proactive R & D, by offering a great quality product at a fair price, and by giving fantastic before and after sales service.
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post #50 of 189 Old 04-02-2010, 04:03 AM
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Good luck with you Aussie business endeavors 100dB,

I ment know disrespect, just providing you with the info you where asking for..

Cheers..
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post #51 of 189 Old 04-02-2010, 04:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you cinema mad.

Please excuse me if I came across in a retaliating manner, I just wanted to make it clear that I commenced this thread with an intention of seeking only the truth regarding the uni directional cable theory. Now that I have attained this insight I can point my focus towards other aspects of making my business unique and bringing a product to the market which is exactly what people want, not by attempting to create fairy tales based on non science that tricks consumers into thinking that a product does something that it doesn't.

Are there any suggestions that do make a RCA cable better? Does thicker shielding help in any way? Would most people prefer an alloy plug housing or the plastic type?
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post #52 of 189 Old 04-02-2010, 06:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

We had this discussion before when you didn't even know that twisted pair could be used for unbalanced audio cabling, despite the fact that it is the most common cabling type used for unbalanced audio.

If you mean unbalanced as in typical consumer interconnect cable, I don't know about the region you live / work but this is what's common with those cableing around where I am. http://store.haveinc.com/images/PROD...m/CANL4CFB.jpg

And this isn't commonly seen with RCA plugs. http://store.haveinc.com/images/PROD...um/CANL2E5.jpg
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post #53 of 189 Old 04-02-2010, 06:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 100db View Post

Are there any suggestions that do make a RCA cable better?

That depends on what you mean by "better". If you are talking about aesthetics or what sounds good on white paper to get potential buyer's attention, sky is the limit. As for the cable engineering aspect, companies like Belden and Canare already have done it for us. No need to try to reinvent the wheel.
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post #54 of 189 Old 04-02-2010, 06:44 AM
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Hmmph... most of the audio interconnects I've ever seen are shielded twisted pair, and not coax.

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Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

Hmmph... most of the audio interconnects I've ever seen are shielded twisted pair, and not coax.

I guess that's how they achieve "Image detail and separation are noticeably improved with wider more natural tonal complexity. It retains rich overtones and harmonic structures within a large three dimensional soundstage, while remaining rock solid over a greater dynamic range."
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post #56 of 189 Old 04-02-2010, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

I guess that's how they achieve "Image detail and separation are noticeably improved with wider more natural tonal complexity. It retains rich overtones and harmonic structures within a large three dimensional soundstage, while remaining rock solid over a greater dynamic range."



Wow.

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post #57 of 189 Old 04-02-2010, 08:42 AM
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If someone assembles an RCA (unbalanced) cable using 2 wires in a shield and twists those 2 wires together at each end to solder them to the center pin of an RCA male connector, then essentially that IS a coaxial connection.

There is ZERO difference between a single wire in a pair and both wires in a pair connected to the same points on the connectors. Even if 1 wire in the pair is soldered to the shield and then to the ground/shield of the connector, there is ZERO effect one way or the other. You still have basically, a coaxial cable.
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post #58 of 189 Old 04-02-2010, 10:10 AM
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Hi Giz, Electrically you may be correct. I was simply speaking to the mechanical design of 2 pictures that geek posted.

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post #59 of 189 Old 04-02-2010, 11:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

Hmmph... most of the audio interconnects I've ever seen are shielded twisted pair, and not coax.

Ditto. Hence the whole possibility of lifting the shield on one end which is fairly common practice too.
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post #60 of 189 Old 04-02-2010, 11:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

If someone assembles an RCA (unbalanced) cable using 2 wires in a shield and twists those 2 wires together at each end to solder them to the center pin of an RCA male connector, then essentially that IS a coaxial connection.

There is ZERO difference between a single wire in a pair and both wires in a pair connected to the same points on the connectors. Even if 1 wire in the pair is soldered to the shield and then to the ground/shield of the connector, there is ZERO effect one way or the other. You still have basically, a coaxial cable.

That's not how it's done usually, but it depends. Again one conductor is the hot pin, the other conductor is the neutral, and then the shield is cut off one one end and soldered onto the neutral on only one side.

Make sense?
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