The "Official" xtz Room Analyzer Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 447 Old 06-18-2013, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

Change both Recording and Speakers (Advanced) to 48000 DVD Quality.

Also above screenshots, default settings etc.

Hi
Managed to change the default Microphone, speakers, and digital Audio (S/PDiF) to 48000 DVD
All other devices second microphone and line In 48000 DVD is not supported
I will try XTZ tonight and check, and if possible change the settings in the properties

Hopefully this helps

I have also been in touch with XTZ support and advised of the microphone properties defaulting to 35 and they have requested screenshots to give to the programmer

Thanks for the input
Andy
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post #362 of 447 Old 06-18-2013, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post

Hi
Managed to change the default Microphone, speakers, and digital Audio (S/PDiF) to 48000 DVD
All other devices second microphone and line In 48000 DVD is not supported
I will try XTZ tonight and check, and if possible change the settings in the properties

Hopefully this helps

I have also been in touch with XTZ support and advised of the microphone properties defaulting to 35 and they have requested screenshots to give to the programmer

Thanks for the input
Andy

Does the RTA work ok?

Have you tried plugging the mic etc in before opening XTZ software?

Try speaking into the mic and also try the RTA with this.
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post #363 of 447 Old 06-19-2013, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

Does the RTA work ok?

Have you tried plugging the mic etc in before opening XTZ software?

Try speaking into the mic and also try the RTA with this.[/quote

]RTA level is also low, on checking the XTZ mic level in properties it defaults to 14 when in
RTA so I have to manually increase to get a decent reading

I always make sure the XTZ is connected before opening the software

Support at XTZ also suggested this, the microphone and RTA responds ok as does the SPL

XTZ Support advises that a reading of 35 in the XTZ Mic properties is correct and is set by the program
Would any members be kind enough to check their reading, and also under RTA

Thanks Andy
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post #364 of 447 Old 06-19-2013, 04:13 PM
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Ok i have already posted for other people to check there settings (Windows 8), maybe 7 as well could help.
Checked mine (XP) use to use Vista , yesterday and the volume for the mic is set to 35 and volume on the speakers (laptop) are muted. XTZ volume is just over half and i get SPL off about 72 on full range.

Also try changing the mic and speaker to 44100 CD Quality, i know this is not necessarily right but might help.

Another idea is to disable your Antivirus, some reject/play up with foreign programmes and plug in mic and open XTZ.

I would keep in contact with XTZ.

BTW don't use registry cleaners (although CC is one of the better) just use that Repair as this resets Windows and works with Windows. I have stopped using the Registry cleaner and the computer runs better, watch out for updates.
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post #365 of 447 Old 06-20-2013, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillips751 View Post

Ok i have already posted for other people to check there settings (Windows 8), maybe 7 as well could help.
Checked mine (XP) use to use Vista , yesterday and the volume for the mic is set to 35 and volume on the speakers (laptop) are muted. XTZ volume is just over half and i get SPL off about 72 on full range.

Also try changing the mic and speaker to 44100 CD Quality, i know this is not necessarily right but might help.

Another idea is to disable your Antivirus, some reject/play up with foreign programmes and plug in mic and open XTZ.

I would keep in contact with XTZ.

BTW don't use registry cleaners (although CC is one of the better) just use that Repair as this resets Windows and works with Windows. I have stopped using the Registry cleaner and the computer runs better, watch out for updates.

Thanks for confirming the 35 setting, it wont matter what OS owners are using in this regard as that is as 35 is per design according to XTZ

I don't have any antivirus as Windows 8 has it built into the OS, of course I can disable it and try as suggested

I have noted your suggestion as to computer maintenance it sounds like a plan

Finally I am coming to the conclusion that the microphone might be faulty

XTZ suggested talking loudly into the mic and I should see greater than 60dB on the SPL meter, I get 45-50dB
Increasing the mic level in properties to 100 (Which I'm told I should not have to ) and it reads approx. 85dB

I am waiting for XTZ to respond and come up with a solution as I am now getting bored tweeking levels I am not supposed to use to get some kind of satisfaction


Many thanks for your help, I would not have discovered the "Hidden Levels" without your persistence
Andy
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post #366 of 447 Old 06-20-2013, 03:08 AM
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One final post to thank all participant's who have responded to my questions

I have learned a lot

Just to say that my system before XTZ and coming here sounds fantastic but the replies provided here suggests it can and will be better

My aim was to get the best LP speaker and subwoofer positioning which you cant do without XTZ ( Forget REW I'm not interested )

Although I am having unresolved problems with XTZ I think it is a fantastic tool
By unconventional use of the Mic level I have already found better positions for my Subwoofers and see reduced ringing in the time domain

I only wish it would work as design because then I could just get on with it, I still have a lot of readings I wish to make before finally running Audyssey

So again many thanks

I will report back if XTZ support resolves my issues

Andy
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post #367 of 447 Old 06-20-2013, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Just to say that my system before XTZ and coming here sounds fantastic but the replies provided here suggests it can and will be better

Yes it can
Quote:
My aim was to get the best LP speaker and subwoofer positioning which you cant do without XTZ ( Forget REW I'm not interested )

Agree with that + more
Quote:
By unconventional use of the Mic level I have already found better positions for my Subwoofers and see reduced ringing in the time domain

Thats great being able to let Audyssey do as little as possible.
Quote:
I only wish it would work as design because then I could just get on with it, I still have a lot of readings I wish to make before finally running Audyssey

Frustrations will be worth it in the long run.
Quote:
I will report back if XTZ support resolves my issues

Yes please.

Also post your graphs and findings once you are up and running.
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post #368 of 447 Old 06-22-2013, 12:55 PM
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Hi Guys

Well I managed to borrow another laptop and
Pressing test now achieves green on the XTZ output level biggrin.gif
The difference is dramatic as on RTA the levels respond to people speaking in the room where before the bars hardly came off the bottom at 20dB
In room analyser readings now show up to 70dB in the scale

So the problem must lie in my Laptop sound card
Unless this can be resolved I suppose a new Laptop is on the cards
I don't know if an external sound card would be an option as there is no mention in the manual how this would interface

I am glad that the hardware is OK though
Regards
Andy
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post #369 of 447 Old 06-22-2013, 05:20 PM
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Well I managed to borrow another laptop and

Was it the same operating system as yours?

What is your OS system?

If so did you take note of the settings for comparison with yours?
Quote:
So the problem must lie in my Laptop sound card

I didn't think that the laptops sound card is used, XTZ has this?
Quote:
Unless this can be resolved I suppose a new Laptop is on the cards

Before jumping in to a new laptop have you sent this to XTZ?
Quote:
I don't know if an external sound card would be an option as there is no mention in the manual how this would interface

Not as far as i know.

XTZ sound card does this i think.

Please post back with your findings and notes.
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post #370 of 447 Old 06-23-2013, 02:10 AM
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Was it the same operating system as yours?
What is your OS system?

No it was Windows 7
I use Windows 8 Pro
Quote:
If so did you take note of the settings for comparison with yours?

Unfortunately didn't have time as the owner had to go and the battery ran out
Quote:
I didn't think that the laptops sound card is used, XTZ has this?

I have seen conflicting information that the box that comes with XTZ is a pre amp, another that it is a soundcard, might be both?
Quote:
Before jumping in to a new laptop have you sent this to XTZ?

I have advised XTZ and queried the sound card problem hopefully they will confirm if the laptop soundcard is used

Of note my computer originally had Vista and I upgraded to Windows 8, I have heard of issues with Vista using REW and I think also with XTZ

Although I did a clean install obviously it is the original soundcard, will be checking the web to find out if the vist issue was hardware related

Apologies for the format of the reply, can't figure how to quote then give a reply?

Thanks again
Andy
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post #371 of 447 Old 06-23-2013, 06:49 PM
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No it was Windows 7

Windows 7 was great, arguably Windows OS best.
Quote:
I use Windows 8 Pro

Still should work under 8
Quote:
I didn't think that the laptops sound card is used, XTZ has this?

I have seen conflicting information that the box that comes with XTZ is a pre amp, another that it is a soundcard, might be both?

It is both as far as i know.
Quote:
Of note my computer originally had Vista and I upgraded to Windows 8, I have heard of issues with Vista using REW and I think also with XTZ

Maybe this could cause problems.
Did you upgrade yourself or someone do it for you?
When upgrading you need to update drivers as well, see manufacturer website.
Quote:
Although I did a clean install obviously it is the original soundcard, will be checking the web to find out if the vist issue was hardware related

Check for Windows 8 drivers under the manufacturer website.
Quote:
Apologies for the format of the reply, can't figure how to quote then give a reply?

Highlight text
Click quotation symbol (left of plain text) that puts QUOTE both ends of the text you just highlighted
Drop down a line after the end QUOTE
Type your reply at the end of the last QUOTE
Quote:
Thanks again
Andy[

No problems nice to see people appreciate, thank you.
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post #372 of 447 Old 07-17-2013, 12:10 PM
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Hi Again
As XTZ support have been dragging their feet with my issues I managed to get a second brand new laptop with windows 8 to check if I can get green when pushing test on the output meter prior to measure
With my AVR master volume at -5
The result is exactly the same as my own Laptop the output level fails to go green and the db readings on charts when doing a test seem low

Running the AVR test tones in RTA only shows readings of 40db, my hand held SPL meter reads 75db
Can anyone suggest any tests I can do to confirm the XTZ Room analyser is functioning properly?

I think I would be wasting my time doing any room analysis unless I can achieve adequate SPL readings on the charts

Thanks again
Andy
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post #373 of 447 Old 07-18-2013, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post

Hi Again
As XTZ support have been dragging their feet with my issues I managed to get a second brand new laptop with windows 8 to check if I can get green when pushing test on the output meter prior to measure
With my AVR master volume at -5
The result is exactly the same as my own Laptop the output level fails to go green and the db readings on charts when doing a test seem low

Running the AVR test tones in RTA only shows readings of 40db, my hand held SPL meter reads 75db
Can anyone suggest any tests I can do to confirm the XTZ Room analyser is functioning properly?

I think I would be wasting my time doing any room analysis unless I can achieve adequate SPL readings on the charts

Thanks again
Andy

To keep things basic can you get a XP machine, even a PC?

XTZ have normally good service.

Maybe its a hardware problem.

I agree that doing measurements is not viable at this stage.

Something you can look at is when the mic is plugged in and XTZ software opened, the laptops settings sound in both mic and speaker settings does it show "working"

Make sure the mic is plugged in before opening the software.
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post #374 of 447 Old 07-18-2013, 03:31 PM
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To keep things basic can you get a XP machine, even a PC?
As per a previous post I borrowed a laptop with windows 7 and XTZ room analyser seemed to work fine although I only had the laptop for an hour so couldn't do much with it
As my Laptop is 5 yrs old and I have been thinking of replacing it anyway so I have just ordered a new one with Windows 7 Pro so will see how that goes
Quote:
Maybe its a hardware problem.
My Laptop is an Acer Aspire with Windows 8, and the New one I bought and returned was also a Acer Aspire with Windows 8
Quote:
Something you can look at is when the mic is plugged in and XTZ software opened, the laptops settings sound in both mic and speaker settings does it show "working"
I have not noticed working anywhere but I'll check it out
Quote:
Make sure the mic is plugged in before opening the software
I have been doing that since suggested in a previous post

Thanks again for the reply and suggestions, will report back once I get the Windows 7 machine ( Not Acer)
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post #375 of 447 Old 07-18-2013, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post

As per a previous post I borrowed a laptop with windows 7 and XTZ room analyser seemed to work fine although I only had the laptop for an hour so couldn't do much with it
As my Laptop is 5 yrs old and I have been thinking of replacing it anyway so I have just ordered a new one with Windows 7 Pro so will see how that goes
My Laptop is an Acer Aspire with Windows 8, and the New one I bought and returned was also a Acer Aspire with Windows 8
I have not noticed working anywhere but I'll check it out
I have been doing that since suggested in a previous post

Thanks again for the reply and suggestions, will report back once I get the Windows 7 machine ( Not Acer)

I had mine running on a Acer Aspire ok

Yeah check under the XTZ label will be there or similar. Where it says "unavailable" on others there will be a sign saying this.

I can't remember what settings mine was, using a different OS now.
With the "Sound" then both "Playback" and "Recording" change the default to the laptops mic and speaker.
Try this with XTZ plugged in and then not plugged in.

Sorry i meant the XTZ hardware was faulty.
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post #376 of 447 Old 07-23-2013, 04:03 PM
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Hi
I have finally received a reply from XTZ Quote

Unfortunately for some reason I have never been able to download a link from a XTZ email, nor from the website
I have sent XTZ at least three emails asking why, but have up till now not received a reply

I have never had so poor support from a company this is a month now emailing and hitting a brick wall, they now have different software version with higher output for W8, and as you can see no admission or explaination that there is/was a problem

this is my request
Quote:
Try as I might I cannot download and install software from your link, or the XTZ website
Also as I am already a registered customer why does the system insist on asking me to register every time I try a download?
I get as far as inputting all my details , then when I enter my serial number the download bar starts to run green before you get a chance to click download, then nothing happens and you have to go right from the start again

The only time I have been able to download is when I fist bought the product, I couldn't download the version 2.32 they sent ,and they then sent the link via Dropbox, the installer program from there was entirely different than the website and worked fine


I also have never had any problems downloading software from anywhere else, but their site is useless i.e how do you update the software?
ANSWER, you cant you have to uninstall and register as a customer at every attempt.to install the latest version
Why register in the first place the download page doesn't ask if you are an existing customer, or already registered?
I now really wish I had returned XTZ room analyser at the beginning of this saga and tried REW

I feel I am computer literate but also feel like a fool trying to get a satisfactory response from XTZ
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post #377 of 447 Old 07-27-2013, 11:14 AM
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Hi Guys
Finally got my new Laptop with windows 7

Tried to install the software from XTZ, succeded first time ( Windows 8 on old laptop still would not download?)

I have given up on XTZ support as the second contact has now gone on vacation didn't advise me of this and passed my problems onto someone else who also has not been in contact

Hooked up to the XTZ Room analyser and pushed test on the output level, went green no problem success at last

Did a qick test run and achieved 72db at 20HZ dropping down to 40db so results are poor, but at least it works and my sanity is restored

Again many thanks to graig john and Philips751 for your patience and for all the suggestions looks like I finally might be able to improve my Home Theater

So now that it is working could I ask what db range of readings should I be expecting to get at -10 ref with speakers calibrated to 75db

I have also observed that the reading at 20khz is very low, is this normal?

Mods you might want to edit or remove some of my posts as irrelevant
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post #378 of 447 Old 07-27-2013, 02:19 PM
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So I installed the software, plugged in the microphone, my computer updated the drivers for XTZ. THen I opened the program and pressed Measure!

I got an error message saying " Found no valid hardware, please insert the XTZ Audio device!" I know that the device is connected since before that it asked me to update the drivers? Also the microphone shows the blue LED on?

I don't understand what is going on, can you please help.

My humble Cinema
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post #379 of 447 Old 07-27-2013, 05:01 PM
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Haven't used XTZ in a while, but click on little speaker icon (Mixer), bottom right of your screen, then select XTZ as the sound output device.
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post #380 of 447 Old 07-28-2013, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

Haven't used XTZ in a while, but click on little speaker icon (Mixer), bottom right of your screen, then select XTZ as the sound output device.

Did that does'nt work?

My humble Cinema
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post #381 of 447 Old 07-29-2013, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post


So now that it is working could I ask what db range of readings should I be expecting to get at -10 ref with speakers calibrated to 75db

I have also observed that the reading at 20khz is very low, is this normal?

Mods you might want to edit or remove some of my posts as irrelevant

The most useful application of xtz is the Room Analyzer mode to get your bass response smoothed. You've got whatever settings your sub has, plus distance, level, crossover in your AVR. If you're running Audyssey, you've got that too - I have a Denon and can store Audyssey calibrations - they all measure different biggrin.gif Oh, an Audyssey tip - a lot of users report lower bass output by 3 db or whatever compared to the rest of the speakers. I get the same, but never bothered with it. Until being able to measure that is - for me it was a breakthrough to make my first step after Audyssey (after resetting x-over of course) to balance the output with xtz.

It took me around 50 hours to finalize mine - some of that is because of having multiple Audyssey cals with different sub settings that I was playing with - so there's lots to learn and experiment with. My catch phrase is "hey, I wonder ..."

You've got a lot of speaker combinations to explore too - each LCR individually, then with sub, then LR, with sub, all three etc.

In RA mode I see about 18 db lower levels than the spl meter shows (LCS) real-time when doing the runs. This is normal, don't worry about it.

Just grabbed 2.33, I'll be interested if I get higher levels from it - ~80 is what I get at -5 with 2.31.

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post #382 of 447 Old 08-01-2013, 03:23 PM
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I finally got round to doing some sweeps
Previously thought I found a good LP but looks like a null, unless it could be Audyssey speaker distances are incorrect
Any way this is after a 8 point cal with Audyssey and DEQ on



Audyssey and DEQ now off, Audyssey had set crossover to 90Hz, now reduced to 80 Hz



Left ( Blue ) and right ( Green ) speakers ( No subs ) when doing the right speaker there was signs of distortion
Any suggestions how to test that the right speaker is OK ?



Another concern I have is my mains are asymmetrically placed due to an alcove at the right hand side
The soundstage always seems left hand biased, any suggestion would be welcome
I hoped to see evidence in the Left / Right graph but it doesn't look too bad

A pic of the offending alcove



Acoustic panels are now placed at the first and second reflection points, these are not shown in this photo, was hoping this would correct the bias but it doesn't
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post #383 of 447 Old 08-02-2013, 11:17 AM
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I would check to see if your subwoofer integration (assuming you are using an 80Hz XO point) isn't the cause of that null - see my article on Home Theater Calibration using XTZ Room Analyzer.


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post #384 of 447 Old 08-02-2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

I would check to see if your subwoofer integration (assuming you are using an 80Hz XO point) isn't the cause of that null - see my article on Home Theater Calibration using XTZ Room Analyzer.

Hi Nyal and thanks for replying

My speakers are all THX Ultra 2 certified so a 80 Hz crossover should be optimum
My ONKYO 5010 invariably sets the L/R and centre to 80Hz ( On this occasion it set the centre to 90Hz )
Both my Subs LPF are bypassed and the ONKYO always sets the LPF of LFE to 120 Hz

As per the first two graphs on the previous post the null exists with a 90 Hz and an adjusted 80 Hz crossover

I have attached the Full range graph I ran the same time as the others, it doesn't look good to me



All channel stereo ( No Subs )





I will read the article and try out any recommendations you give, I appreciate the input
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post #385 of 447 Old 08-02-2013, 02:46 PM
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I would look at the sub integration - experiment with adjusting the time delay on the sub and re-measuring to see if a flatter response can be achieved. If not the null is likely speaker boundary interference which is more difficult to resolve.


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post #386 of 447 Old 08-02-2013, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

I would look at the sub integration - experiment with adjusting the time delay on the sub and re-measuring to see if a flatter response can be achieved. If not the null is likely speaker boundary interference which is more difficult to resolve.

Thanks Nyal I will carry out the calibrations mentioned in your article this weekend and post the results

What is your view on the asymmetrical speaker positioning of my front speakers, the Left speaker is 4' 3" from the Left sidewall, the Right speaker is 6' 10" from the Right sidewall ( alcove wall ) also the Centre speaker would obviously also be affected by the asymmetry?

Hopefully I'll be able to post the results on Monday
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post #387 of 447 Old 08-04-2013, 01:45 PM
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You should measure with DEQ off unless your RLO is lower than your main volume when measuring. For instance, if your RLO is 10, then -9 or higher main volume is fine, but -11 or lower will mess with your results.

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post #388 of 447 Old 08-04-2013, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by fjames View Post

You should measure with DEQ off unless your RLO is lower than your main volume when measuring. For instance, if your RLO is 10, then -9 or higher main volume is fine, but -11 or lower will mess with your results.

Hi fjames

I always measure with DEQ Off
I have racked my brains but cant figure what "RLO" stands for?
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post #389 of 447 Old 08-04-2013, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post

Thanks Nyal I will carry out the calibrations mentioned in your article this weekend and post the results

What is your view on the asymmetrical speaker positioning of my front speakers, the Left speaker is 4' 3" from the Left sidewall, the Right speaker is 6' 10" from the Right sidewall ( alcove wall ) also the Centre speaker would obviously also be affected by the asymmetry?

Hopefully I'll be able to post the results on Monday

Hi
I carried out the test as recommended by Nyal on Saturday and submitted what I thought was a comprehensive post with graphs

I now see the post is removed eek.gif

Can the Mods advise,I hopefully did not post anything that broke any rules?
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post #390 of 447 Old 08-04-2013, 03:50 PM
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Hi fjames

I always measure with DEQ Off
I have racked my brains but can't figure what "RLO" stands for?

Above you had a graph with DEQ on, so I thought you were doing that with regularity.

RLO is Reference Level Offset. I don't know what Onkyo calls it but it's the thing you set to reduce the effect of DEQ. It essentially lowers reference to whatever you set it at. People yack endlessly about how to set it, but it seems pretty simple to me - set it at whatever increment you have available that's next higher than the loudest volume setting you use 99% of the time. For me, I almost never get above -14, so I set RLO to 10 (which makes reference now -10.) This reduces the effect of DEQ at lower volumes and to me sounds much more natural.

Eve: I thought I was through getting involved with men who were trouble. Falling in love on a look. I can't look at you.

Mickey: You have perfection about you. Your eyes have music. Your heart's the best part of your body. And when you move, every man, woman and child is forced to watch.
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