The "Official" xtz Room Analyzer Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 481 Old 12-29-2014, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westmd View Post
Wayne,

Could you advise how to achieve such a curve in XTZ room analyzer pro? I will have a 10-band PEQ in my Datasat LS10

I’ve never used XTZ. However, the concept will be the same. If the program will accept a house curve file which will create a target curve on the screen, then create one as outlined in the instructions and load it into the program. After that it’s just a matter of EQing response to reasonably track the target.

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post #452 of 481 Old 12-29-2014, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
No. Try changing the delays (speaker distance). Add a few feet of distance to the subwoofer, then see if the notch moves. As you get closer to the correct timing, the notch will move to a higher frequency, and eventually disappear.
That was my first thought too, but if you look at Leo's equipment list, it doesn't look like he's using a subwoofer.

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post #453 of 481 Old 12-29-2014, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post
That was my first thought too, but if you look at Leo's equipment list, it doesn't look like he's using a subwoofer.
I see an SVS SB12-NSD in the list.

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post #454 of 481 Old 12-29-2014, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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You're right. I didn't read close enough. In that case, your original advice is spot on.

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post #455 of 481 Old 12-29-2014, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post
You're right. I didn't read close enough. In that case, your original advice is spot on.
Whew! That saves him a bunch of money pushing the walls out!

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post #456 of 481 Old 01-03-2015, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne A. Pflughaupt View Post

I’ve never used XTZ. However, the concept will be the same. If the program will accept a house curve file which will create a target curve on the screen, then create one as outlined in the instructions and load it into the program. After that it’s just a matter of EQing response to reasonably track the target.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
As far as I understood XTZ so far is that the system is suggesting PEQ values to achieve a flat Curve.
In your first article about house curves you suggest PEQ values to achieve a curve from a flat response curve. Do you have any suggestion how to set the PEQ to achieve a 'perfect' curve from a flat curve?
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post #457 of 481 Old 01-03-2015, 01:05 PM
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Sorry, don’t know what you mean by “perfect curve.”

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post #458 of 481 Old 01-03-2015, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westmd View Post
As far as I understood XTZ so far is that the system is suggesting PEQ values to achieve a flat Curve.
In your first article about house curves you suggest PEQ values to achieve a curve from a flat response curve. Do you have any suggestion how to set the PEQ to achieve a 'perfect' curve from a flat curve?
REW let's you dial in a house curve, then will offer filters to get there. Not sure if XTZ lets you design a target curve like that. But since house curves are about getting a preferred sound, you can just dial in some changes. REW is also a very useful way to visualize what can be done with EQ filters. Then you can transfer those settings to your real EQ.

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post #459 of 481 Old 01-04-2015, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
REW let's you dial in a house curve, then will offer filters to get there. Not sure if XTZ lets you design a target curve like that. But since house curves are about getting a preferred sound, you can just dial in some changes. REW is also a very useful way to visualize what can be done with EQ filters. Then you can transfer those settings to your real EQ.
But can I use the XTZ hardware for REW? I read something about a needed calibration file?
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post #460 of 481 Old 01-04-2015, 06:55 AM
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In the meantime I have got a quick and competent answer from XTZ, so I don't rhink I need REW!

We have a "drag" function(drag the curve to what you want) that allow you to create your own curve and then the system show the PEQ setting so its very flexible !!
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post #461 of 481 Old 01-04-2015, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westmd View Post
We have a "drag" function(drag the curve to what you want) that allow you to create your own curve and then the system show the PEQ setting so its very flexible !!


Hats off to XTZ, that is very cool!

Regards,
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post #462 of 481 Old 03-30-2015, 02:14 PM
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Anyone on this thread using XTZ PRO II? USB sound card connected, generic windows driver installs. However, XTZ software does not output any sound. Microphone seems to be working as I can see from RTA it's picking external audio but I can't get XTZ to generate any tones for room measurement.

What am I missing? Should be straight forward from what I can tell.
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post #463 of 481 Old 03-31-2015, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post
Anyone on this thread using XTZ PRO II? USB sound card connected, generic windows driver installs. However, XTZ software does not output any sound. Microphone seems to be working as I can see from RTA it's picking external audio but I can't get XTZ to generate any tones for room measurement.

What am I missing? Should be straight forward from what I can tell.
Can someone PLEASE give me a link to where to order this? US source ideally.

I will be using this for my home only, so I don't think I need the advanced version.

I used Craig's link in first post, but it went to website that is in some other language that looks like Viking words.
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post #464 of 481 Old 03-31-2015, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
Can someone PLEASE give me a link to where to order this? US source ideally.
http://www.xtzsound.com/en/products/...alyzer-ii-pro#
http://www.xtzsound.us/shop-en/measu...nalyzer-ii-pro

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I will be using this for my home only, so I don't think I need the advanced version.
You do. It is worth the difference. (I have both.)

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post #465 of 481 Old 03-31-2015, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Can someone PLEASE give me a link to where to order this? US source ideally.

I will be using this for my home only, so I don't think I need the advanced version.

I used Craig's link in first post, but it went to website that is in some other language that looks like Viking words.
http://store.acousticfrontiers.com/X...er-II-Pro.html
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post #466 of 481 Old 04-03-2015, 04:19 PM
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I purchased from this link and it cost $40 less than the actual mfr. site! Plus I emailed them if I could use my own fed ex label, and they happiy accommodated me. So I highly recommend this acoustics frontier place!

Question - right now I have both subs hooked up via wireless kits. They work great and I really need to use them for WAF.

However, because of the latency, one of them always gets set to 57 feet after Audyssey. Although my Denon seems to go to 60 feet max, when I open the distance screen - an error message pops up basically saying 'distance too far, reconfigure'. Then the damn AVR sets it to 30 ft automatically.

Do you think this program will allow me to adjust distances in such a way that will negate the deleterious effects the sub receivers are having on my setup? I'll go get super long sub cables if I really have to.
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post #467 of 481 Old 04-04-2015, 05:15 AM
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Turned out to be a bad Y cable.. all good
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post #468 of 481 Old 04-05-2015, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Posts 1 & 2 of the thread have been updated with all links fixed.

Craig

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post #469 of 481 Old 04-06-2015, 02:45 PM
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Wow, good job with updating the first post. That was obviously a ton of work!

Can anyone who's seen lots of graphs give me ther opinion on how mine looks? Is it good, bad, outstanding, terrible?

The data in the 'found room modes' box - if I got a mini dsP, do I basically put that data in it somehow? And then my system would sound better?

My main complaint with my system is that it seems like there's no mid-bass punch. It just doesn't overly impress, and I feel like it should with the subs I have. I' used the Rta/sub crawl and I'm confident they are in optimal position. Will getting a dsP be a noticeable improvement?

Last edited by DaveyMac; 04-06-2015 at 02:49 PM.
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post #470 of 481 Old 04-06-2015, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, good job with updating the first post. That was obviously a ton of work!

Can anyone who's seen lots of graphs give me ther opinion on how mine looks? Is it good, bad, outstanding, terrible?

The data in the 'found room modes' box - if I got a mini dsP, do I basically put that data in it somehow? And then my system would sound better?

My main complaint with my system is that it seems like there's no mid-bass punch. It just doesn't overly impress, and I feel like it should with the subs I have. I' used the Rta/sub crawl and I'm confident they are in optimal position. Will getting a dsP be a noticeable improvement?
Were those two measurements taken with the mic in the same spots? The response from 300 Hz down looks quite a bit different in the 2 graphs. You have 2 STEEP nulls in the full range graph that don't show up in the RA graph. It looks like the mic was moved between graphs.

Can you tell us some more about your system, your room and the placement of the speakers, subs and the LP?

Also, do your Room Analyzer measurements with the smoothing set to 12 PPO. That will show more detail.

The RTA is only 1/3 octave resolution. I would not use it for final placement of the subs. Use Room Analyzer at 12 PPO. Also, focus as much on the Decay Time Spectrogram as much, or more, than the FR graph.

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post #471 of 481 Old 04-19-2015, 09:32 AM
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I've finally achieved a decent response with the help of XTZ.

For those of you new to the program, I've picked up some techniques.

When you measure, set your AVR to dolby surround or multi-channel, if you want to graph all of your speakers.

If you only want to graph subs, set AVR to stereo and simply unplug LR speakers.

If you want to change curve on screen and have the appropriate filters listed for a minidsp - simply right click/drag the line to where you want it. The appropriate EQ adjustment/PEQ will then be listed in room modes box.

Often, it might not grap the line exactly where you wanted to. All you need to do is double click the room mode. A window will pop up that will allow you to modify the Q, DBs, and frequency. I found this very useful as any changes will change the tan result line instantly. Very often I found I could modify the Q, DBs or frequency it gave - and end up with a much better looking tan line/result.

If you go enter the room mode parameters that you liked into a dsP and then run graph again - it's pretty spot on.

Here is what I ended up with. I've given up on 130hz.

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post #472 of 481 Old 04-20-2015, 10:41 AM
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I have finally gotten my 5 channel amp back and installed for my 7.1 system. I calibrated all the speakers including the subwoofer with my Radio Shack SPL to 77 db A slow using the internal test tones from my Classe SSP800. then decided to check the calibration with XTZ, they all showed 74db except for the Subwoofer which showed 54db, the two db difference is probably just a calibration thing but the big drop in the subwoofer surprised me. Which reading should I go with? All readings were taken from my normal listening position.
Also for equalization purposes is it best to do each speaker seperatly or run all 7.1 at once. I listen to music about 40% of the time in two channel, and movie/TVs the rest of the time.


thanks for any help
Mike
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post #473 of 481 Old 04-20-2015, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
I've finally achieved a decent response with the help of XTZ.

For those of you new to the program, I've picked up some techniques.

When you measure, set your AVR to dolby surround or multi-channel, if you want to graph all of your speakers.
I don't recommend this. When listening to music or watching a movie, your speakers will generally be playing diferent content in each speaker. The CC will cary dialogue and sounds that are placed in the front center, as well as sounds that "pan" across the front soundstage. The L/R speakers will carry the left and right content, and what is on the left is virtually always different than what's on the right. The content in the surrounds will range from ambiance enhancement to directional sound effects. Bottom line, there will be virtually ZERO content that is shared by all the speakers. Therefore, why would you want to measure all the speakers at once playing the same signal? You should mesure individual speakers + subs to look for integration problems around the crossover frequency. Put the system in "Stereo" mode. Then disconnect the left speaker and measure the R speaker + subs. Repeat that with the L speaker + subs. Then put the system into PLIIx Cinema, (or Movie) mode. This will direct all the identical content in the L/R channels to the CC. Then measure just the CC and subwoofers. This will give you much better info about each speaker and how it iteracts with the room and LP.

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Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
If you only want to graph subs, set AVR to stereo and simply unplug LR speakers.
Yes.

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Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
Here is what I ended up with. I've given up on 130hz.

130 Hz is being reproduced by your speakers, not your subs. If this is a composite of all your speakers in Multichannel stereo, that 130 Hz trough may or may not exist in any one speaker. You need to be measuring each speaker individually to determine their individual responses.

Your bass response looks great!

Craig

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Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #474 of 481 Old 04-20-2015, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmhenrie View Post
I have finally gotten my 5 channel amp back and installed for my 7.1 system. I calibrated all the speakers including the subwoofer with my Radio Shack SPL to 77 db A slow using the internal test tones from my Classe SSP800. then decided to check the calibration with XTZ, they all showed 74db except for the Subwoofer which showed 54db, the two db difference is probably just a calibration thing but the big drop in the subwoofer surprised me. Which reading should I go with? All readings were taken from my normal listening position.
Put the SPL meter in C weighting.
https://www.noisemeters.com/help/faq...-weighting.asp

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Originally Posted by jmhenrie View Post
Also for equalization purposes is it best to do each speaker seperatly or run all 7.1 at once. I listen to music about 40% of the time in two channel, and movie/TVs the rest of the time.
Are you trying to EQ the speakers? I'm not familiar with your pre/ro, but I don't suggest trying to EQ much above about 250 Hz. Do each speaker separately. See my post above this one.

Craig

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post #475 of 481 Old 04-20-2015, 04:47 PM
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130 Hz is being reproduced by your speakers, not your subs. If this is a composite of all your speakers in Multichannel stereo, that 130 Hz trough may or may not exist in any one speaker. You need to be measuring each speaker individually to determine their individual responses.

Craig
Uh oh, well You can see the dip at 83 hz and trough at 130. I actually got rid of both problems by adding 8db at 83hz and adding 10db at 123hz with a minidsp on subs.

So if my subs aren't supposed to play 123hz, should I undo that correction? I'm not sure how I even managed to get rid of it with just subs and minidsp. Everything does sound better but I still feel like everything doesn't sound quite right.

I thought 120hz are was mid bass and that's really important to me. I don't know how in the world I'll fix 123hz trough now. I guess I'll try adjusting toe in and physical distances of my mains. All I really care about in my system is how good the bass sounds for movies/tv.

But do you think I should NOT add DBs to subs at 123hz? Is it ok to add at 83hz?

Last edited by DaveyMac; 04-20-2015 at 04:55 PM.
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post #476 of 481 Old 04-20-2015, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Uh oh, well You can see the dip at 83 hz and trough at 130. I actually got rid of both problems by adding 8db at 83hz and adding 10db at 123hz with a minidsp on subs.

So if my subs aren't supposed to play 123hz, should I undo that correction? I'm not sure how I even managed to get rid of it with just subs and minidsp. Everything does sound better but I still feel like everything doesn't sound quite right.

I thought 120hz are was mid bass and that's really important to me. I don't know how in the world I'll fix 123hz trough now. I guess I'll try adjusting toe in and physical distances of my mains. All I really care about in my system is how good the bass sounds for movies/tv.

But do you think I should NOT add DBs to subs at 123hz? Is it ok to add at 83hz?
What crossover frequency are you using? I assumed you were using an 80 Hz crossover, but that may be incorrect.

I can't tell you whether you should be using those boost settings until I see measurements of the individual speakers + subs. However, I will say that 8 dB and 10 dB are large amounts of boost. That kind of boost eats amp power and driver excursion, which limits system headroom. I would look for other solutions before applying that much boost.

Finally, I asked a bunch of questions about your system in a post a few days ago. You never answered those questions. It would be much easier to help you if I knew more about your system.

Craig

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post #477 of 481 Old 04-20-2015, 07:23 PM
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What crossover frequency are you using? I assumed you were using an 80 Hz crossover, but that may be incorrect.

I can't tell you whether you should be using those boost settings until I see measurements of the individual speakers + subs. However, I will say that 8 dB and 10 dB are large amounts of boost. That kind of boost eats amp power and driver excursion, which limits system headroom. I would look for other solutions before applying that much boost.

Finally, I asked a bunch of questions about your system in a post a few days ago. You never answered those questions. It would be much easier to help you if I knew more about your system.

Craig
Sorry I had answered the question but had a lot of other questions I later figured out, so I deleted post.

80 crossover. Denon X4100w xt32 w/ multi sub eq. 5.2.2 front height. All HSU bookshelves for mains (aud puts them to 40, but I put them all to 80 and small) HSU center, dual VTF3 MK5's.
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post #478 of 481 Old 04-20-2015, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry I had answered the question but had a lot of other questions I later figured out, so I deleted post.

80 crossover. Denon X4100w xt32 w/ multi sub eq. 5.2.2 front height. All HSU bookshelves for mains (aud puts them to 40, but I put them all to 80 and small) HSU center, dual VTF3 MK5's.
How big is the room, and where is your seating located in it? How close or far from the room boundaries?

How did you end up dealing with the latency in the wireless kits?

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post #479 of 481 Old 04-20-2015, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post
How big is the room, and where is your seating located in it? How close or far from the room boundaries?

How did you end up dealing with the latency in the wireless kits?

Craig





I got rid of wireless kits and wired subs up. Now Audyssey sets them more realistically at 13 feet each. They are about 7 and 13 in reality.

I have tried putting subs on each side of TV, each side of couch, and every conceivable combination of those four spots including moving sub from corner with large bookcase to further down the wall in one foot increments. And then in all those spots I've tried pointing at wall vs. pointing into room, pointing to TV, pointing to MLP, etc.

The part of L shaped room that's not fully pictured only goes back about 3 feet past the mystery door (to kitchen) that's in the picture.

The best although still poor place I ended up with is:
One sub to right of TV in that corner with shorter walls extending from it.
And to right of couch where large bookcase is (I moved book case out of corner).
Even the reasonably good sub response is with the two dsP boosts I mentioned and about 5 cuts. All of which I did after Audyssey.

MLP is across from TV on left side of couch.

I run xt32 8 times all within a tight radius only over about 1-1/2 couch cushions.

Last edited by DaveyMac; 04-21-2015 at 04:43 AM.
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I'm going to be putting two subs into one AVR sub output through a minidsp 2x4.

I plan on measuring how much closer the near field sub is, and then adding that delay in minidsp.

To 'tweak' my distances, what would be the best way using XYZ? Just run FR sweeps with different distances (minute adjustments) and see which distance yields smoothest output at crossover region?
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