The "Official" xtz Room Analyzer Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 445 Old 08-06-2010, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Multiple subs give you best chance for smooth response at multiple seats. Audyssey makes an attempt at smoothing the response for a listening "area". However, the better the initial response, the better the Audyssey result. Multiple subs, placed well around the LP give the best chance for that.

My graphs show the response of 3 Seaton Sound Submersives, placed randomly around the listening position.

Craig

That's a sweet setup! 3 Submersives must be wonderful to have.

Yeah, I know Audyssey makes an attempt to smooth for an area, but I find the response to be still quite uneven. I sat at 3 positions (main, 2' left and 2' right) on my couch to listen for myself the same scenes. Assuming the main is the reference, on the left the bass was stronger and on the right the bass was weaker. So looks like I may have to go multi-sub to improve my chances at making it more even.

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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Have you loked at the "Full Range" tab? It shows a 3-D waterfall. Of course, you need to run through your speakers to get a true full range measurement.

I'm aware of the 3D waterfall over there. Wished they had one for the main tab too.

Say, for that 3D waterfall in the full range tab, anyway to make it bigger?
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post #62 of 445 Old 08-06-2010, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

My charts are subs and speakers, and 3-position. I use an 80 Hz crossover on my speakers, (Atlantic Technology 8200e's). While it's interesting to see the upper range response of the sub when it is given the full xtz signal, I want to see how the sub blends with the speakers at the crossover. xtz is an excellent tool to optimize the response around the crossover point. (See Mark Seaton's post I quoted above.)

This weekend I will try his suggestion of using PLIIx Movie to measure the response of each speaker and sub independently and post the result. I'll also try to get some charts that show how to optimize the response around the crossover.

Looking forward to your charts and commentary. I'd like to know how to use XTZ to optimise the crossover point.

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That's not bad at all. I would bet if you ran the signal through the entire system and applied Audyssey, you could get that from +/- 6dB to +/- 3dB.

What speakers do you have? What are your Bass Management settings?

That graph shows one of the best positions for the sub in my room. I tried about 10 diff positions (not easy with having to move the PB13 ) to find the best.

My mains are Focus Audio FC8. The LCR and surrounds are set at 80Hz. LPF for LFE is 80Hz (though I'm gonna also experiment with 100Hz).
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post #63 of 445 Old 08-06-2010, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Say, for that 3D waterfall in the full range tab, anyway to make it bigger?

If you click and hold the "bar" between the upper, full range FR plot and the lower 3-D full range chart, and push the bar up, you'll increase the size of the 3-D chart, and decrease the size of the full range chart.

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post #64 of 445 Old 08-06-2010, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

That graph shows one of the best positions for the sub in my room. I tried about 10 diff positions (not easy with having to move the PB13 ) to find the best.

This is probably one of the best utilizations of a system like xtz... pre-optimization of placement before EQ. When you can provide a better starting point, the EQ has a lot less work to do. Great job!

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My mains are Focus Audio FC8. The LCR and surrounds are set at 80Hz. LPF for LFE is 80Hz (though I'm gonna also experiment with 100Hz).

Are those the crossovers suggested by Audyssey? Can you post charts of the sub with the speakers?

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post #65 of 445 Old 08-06-2010, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jchong View Post

1. Option to have un-smoothed graph to show more detail. The present 1/6 octave smoothing is still more smoothing than I would prefer.

2. Ability to label and adjust the graph scale. At present it's only labelled at 16, 31.5, 63, 125 and 250 with gridlines at 1/3 octave. I would love an option to label each gridline and change the gridlines to every 10Hz instead of 1/3 octave.

3. Having a 3D waterfall would be nice.

4. Easier way to set the test tone volume and which is user definable. The abrupt cut off at present is disruptive and I'm not sure what is the cut off point.

5. The ability to average more than three measurements

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post #66 of 445 Old 08-06-2010, 01:12 PM
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Can XTZ be used to measure the electrical freq response, i.e., the signal the sub gets, not its acoustic output?

Noah
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post #67 of 445 Old 08-07-2010, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

This is probably one of the best utilizations of a system like xtz... pre-optimization of placement before EQ. When you can provide a better starting point, the EQ has a lot less work to do. Great job!

Yup, that's one of the reasons why I bought the XTZ. Didn't trust my ears enough to tell one position from another.

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Are those the crossovers suggested by Audyssey? Can you post charts of the sub with the speakers?

No Audyssey suggested "full band" for all.

I'll run the sub + speakers test sometime on the weekend and post the charts.
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post #68 of 445 Old 08-07-2010, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Can XTZ be used to measure the electrical freq response, i.e., the signal the sub gets, not its acoustic output?

Not that I can find. It will not run unless it sees the XTZ mic.

So I got an external sound card and use REW for both mic and electrical response measurements. That's turned out to be a very useful tool for me to help get my various external bass processing boxes time/polarity aligned.
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post #69 of 445 Old 08-07-2010, 08:25 PM
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Ok, here are some charts for my sub+mains. This is running the XTZ through my AVR with Audyssey on.

Chart 1: I took 3 different 1-position readings, namely at the main LP, 2' to the left and 2' to the right. This also corresponds to the 3 positions used for Audyssey.



Chart 2: This is the 3-position averaged chart with the mic in the same 3 positions as above.



Still far from perfect. Most troubling is the dip between 50-80Hz. I'm losing a lot of mid bass punch from that dip.
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post #70 of 445 Old 08-11-2010, 10:57 AM
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I'm really enjoyed the XTZ but did have a couple of questions to make sure I'm doing things correctly:

1. I have a 7.1 speaker system, connected to an Onkyo 1007 AVR, and my interest is in measuring the results for the complete system, not just the sub. So at present I use the RCA splitter and connect to L and R inputs that are not used by another source (specifically, the VCR input). My question is what 'sound mode' should I select on the AVR: 'stereo', or one of the surround sound modes?

2. Also, the manual states in several places that the 'Room Analyzer' measures at higher than the 1/3 octave resolution of the RTA measurement, but it doesn't say what this 'higher resolution' is. Is it 1/6 or 1/12 octave resolution, or even higher?

TIA, Bill
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post #71 of 445 Old 08-11-2010, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I'm really enjoyed the XTZ but did have a couple of questions to make sure I'm doing things correctly:

1. I have a 7.1 speaker system, connected to an Onkyo 1007 AVR, and my interest is in measuring the results for the complete system, not just the sub. So at present I use the RCA splitter and connect to L and R inputs that are not used by another source (specifically, the VCR input). My question is what 'sound mode' should I select on the AVR: 'stereo', or one of the surround sound modes?

Well, stereo will only get you L/R + sub. Post-processing, e.g., DPL or all-channel stereo, will play all the speakers but, since I never use any of those modes, I have not tried this nor will I.

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2. Also, the manual states in several places that the 'Room Analyzer' measures at higher than the 1/3 octave resolution of the RTA measurement, but it doesn't say what this 'higher resolution' is. Is it 1/6 or 1/12 octave resolution, or even higher?

Dunno but 1/6 octave is the highest resolution it will show.

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post #72 of 445 Old 08-11-2010, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Well, stereo will only get you L/R + sub. Post-processing, e.g., DPL or all-channel stereo, will play all the speakers but, since I never use any of those modes, I have not tried this nor will I.

Dunno but 1/6 octave is the highest resolution it will show.

Hmm, so you mainly listen to 2-channel music (with a sub)? I'm primarily into HT, and I've been using 'Stereo' mode but guess I will try some of the surround sound modes to see if it makes any diff.
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post #73 of 445 Old 08-11-2010, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Well, stereo will only get you L/R + sub. Post-processing, e.g., DPL or all-channel stereo, will play all the speakers but, since I never use any of those modes, I have not tried this nor will I.

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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Hmm, so you mainly listen to 2-channel music (with a sub)? I'm primarily into HT, and I've been using 'Stereo' mode but guess I will try some of the surround sound modes to see if it makes any diff.

No, I listen mostly in multichannel but with true multichannel sources, not in those modes that synthesize the additional channels.

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post #74 of 445 Old 08-24-2010, 04:24 PM
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I ordered XTZ on 8-15. Any idea what the estimated arrival time would be based on your experience?
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post #75 of 445 Old 08-24-2010, 05:24 PM
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Email Jens and he'll send you tracking info. Mine took 2 1/2 weeks, but mine got stuck in customs because it required $6 in extra duties. It actually made it to LA pretty quickly (less than a week)...so if yours goes right through, it should be a lot less time...
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post #76 of 445 Old 08-24-2010, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I ordered XTZ on 8-15. Any idea what the estimated arrival time would be based on your experience?

Chuck, mine took about a week-and-a-half to US west coast.
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post #77 of 445 Old 08-24-2010, 06:14 PM
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I'm curious, has anyone tried to use the Microphone from the XTZ with REW? Just wondering if it would work, and if so, has anyone figure out the correction values?

REW does have some nice graph features I wouldn't mind using, I just hated trying to get all Mic stuff calibrated and working...
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post #78 of 445 Old 08-24-2010, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dguarnaccia View Post

I'm curious, has anyone tried to use the Microphone from the XTZ with REW? Just wondering if it would work, and if so, has anyone figure out the correction values?..

I do not think that REW will work with a USB mic and the correction values are not available, afaik.

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post #79 of 445 Old 08-26-2010, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by dguarnaccia View Post
Email Jens and he'll send you tracking info. Mine took 2 1/2 weeks, but mine got stuck in customs because it required $6 in extra duties. It actually made it to LA pretty quickly (less than a week)...so if yours goes right through, it should be a lot less time...
I just got notification from some company that says I owe them SEVENTY NINE DOLLARS for duties--which I have no intention of paying. See attached invoice.

Do you have a direct email address of "Jen" so I can get this straightened out?

 

Invoice.pdf 110.5888671875k . file
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post #80 of 445 Old 08-26-2010, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I just got notification from some company that says I owe them SEVENTY NINE DOLLARS for duties--which I have no intention of paying. See attached invoice.

Do you have a direct email address of "Jen" so I can get this straightened out?

jens @ fyndborsen.se (remove spaces)
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post #81 of 445 Old 08-26-2010, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dguarnaccia View Post

I'm curious, has anyone tried to use the Microphone from the XTZ with REW? Just wondering if it would work, and if so, has anyone figure out the correction values?

REW does have some nice graph features I wouldn't mind using, I just hated trying to get all Mic stuff calibrated and working...

I got REW to function with the XTZ mic easily enough--just plugged it in and selected it in the window, but no matter what I did, the levels could not be raised into a usable range. Gave up and bought the ECM8000 and a Mobile Pre and Bob's your uncle.
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post #82 of 445 Old 08-27-2010, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I just got notification from some company that says I owe them SEVENTY NINE DOLLARS for duties--which I have no intention of paying. See attached invoice.

Do you have a direct email address of "Jen" so I can get this straightened out?

Same here. I just paid it. You can borrow mine anytime.
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post #83 of 445 Old 08-27-2010, 08:19 PM
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The price is suppose to cover pretty much all the duties, but I had to pay an extra 6 bucks. 79 seems a bit much, perhaps there was a mistake.

Bummer about not being able to use the Mic with REW. Does anyone know if it's possible to get the graphs to show below 16hz? I just picked up a TCA 18.2, and would like to see how flat the response in down in the single digits...
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post #84 of 445 Old 08-29-2010, 05:24 AM
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Hi Guys
After considering REW and XTZ I finally bit the bullet and bought the XTZ Room analyser which I received on Friday.
This seems to be the only user forum in existence so hopefully I can learn how to use and intemperate its readings.

My first question is that I am not sure if my unit is faulty
The internals in the base unit appear to be loose, when you move it or turn it upside down I can feel / hear whatever is in there rattling around, is this normal?
Second did an inital sweep at low volume ,indicator in the green with no problem.
Then did a F/R with increased volume ref reading 51db but there is a lot of interference/ noise from my front speakers while sitting idle.
Did a sweep and you can still hear it while the XTZ "Chirps" , again is this normal ,I wouldn't think so as it is bound to affect the readings.
Any thoughts feedback appreciated
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post #85 of 445 Old 08-29-2010, 08:34 PM
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Found out Nyal has become a US dealer for XTZ, which will obviously eliminate any pesky customs issues.

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/shop/
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post #86 of 445 Old 08-30-2010, 07:50 PM
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Finally, great news for those of us on THIS side of the pond! I, too, bought one direct from XTZ in Sweden (last year), and got hit with exorbitant "customs" fees. Acoustic Frontiers pricing and shipping seems reasonable, but perhaps Nyal will offer a "group buy" to AVS members, to "jumpstart" U.S. sales. It will be GREAT once we have a critical mass of users here, all sharing measurements/knowledge with one another!

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Found out Nyal has become a US dealer for XTZ, which will obviously eliminate any pesky customs issues.

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/shop/


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post #87 of 445 Old 09-02-2010, 02:06 PM
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Just got my XTZ. I was surprised that there is no (obvious) way to use my regular mic stand but rather I must use the "thingy" they provided. What do you set it on when you measure?
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post #88 of 445 Old 09-02-2010, 02:28 PM
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Well, I already owned a mic stand, but I had to buy a universal mic holder and then "customize" it to hold the tiny mic. Also had to buy an extension for the mic cable. Kludgey, but it works.
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post #89 of 445 Old 09-02-2010, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

Just got my XTZ. I was surprised that there is no (obvious) way to use my regular mic stand but rather I must use the "thingy" they provided. What do you set it on when you measure?

For those positions away from my LP, I set it on a wooden stool. For the LP, I first place a heavy book on my couch then set the XTZ on top of the book.
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post #90 of 445 Old 09-02-2010, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post

My first question is that I am not sure if my unit is faulty
The internals in the base unit appear to be loose, when you move it or turn it upside down I can feel / hear whatever is in there rattling around, is this normal?

There's no rattling of the internals in my unit.

Quote:


Then did a F/R with increased volume ref reading 51db but there is a lot of interference/ noise from my front speakers while sitting idle.
Did a sweep and you can still hear it while the XTZ "Chirps" , again is this normal ,I wouldn't think so as it is bound to affect the readings.
Any thoughts feedback appreciated

When sitting idle I don't get any interference/noise from my mains. However, when doing the sweep (in the full range measurement) I do get a like a soft, high pitched whine from my mains.
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