The "Official" xtz Room Analyzer Thread - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 519 Old 07-21-2010, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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XTZ Room Analyzer II is a room acoustics measurement system: http://www.xtz.se/en/products/measur...ma-analyzer-ii

The system includes a microphone, soundcard/base and cables for connecting to the audio system and a computer:





● Complete analysis toolkit
● Easy to use
● Room Analyzer
● RTA Real Time Analyzer
● Frequency response measurement
● Full frequency 2D waterfall plot
● SPL - Full frequency measurement
● SPL Peak and average meter

● High precesion electret microphone
● Tolerance +/-2dB
● Goosneck in metal
● Microphonehouse in aluminum
● XLR connectors in aluminum
● Included cables

The manual can be found here:
http://www.xtz.se//product-assets/me...uals/RAENG.pdf

The software can be downloaded here:
http://www.xtz.se/en/support/file-archive

A demonstration of the system can be found here:
http://www.xtz.se/page-assets/suppor...lyzer_demo.zip

Sample graphs:





XTZ Room Analyzer Standard Videos by Nyal Mellor:

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post #2 of 519 Old 07-21-2010, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Room Analyzer Pro II is a more advanced room acoustics measurement system: http://www.xtzsound.com/en/products/...nalyzer-ii-pro
It has an upgraded microphone, includes a microphone stand and an aluminum carrying case:






● Complete professional analysis toolkit
● Room Analyzer
● Real Time Analyzer
● Frequency response measurement
● Reverberation time/Spectrogram
● SPL - Full frequency measurement
● Advanced SPL Peak and average meter
● Tone generator with a wide choice of output signals

● High precision electret microphone
● Tolerance +/-1dB
● Microphonehouse in aluminum
● USB microphoneamplifier in aluminumbox
● XLR connectors in aluminum
● Included cables, (USB 3 m, microphone 4 m and for audio 5 m)
● Microphone stand included
● Aluminum carrycase included

The Room Analyzer Pro II software can perform the following measurements:

Room Analyzer
A plotted curve shows the average frequency response of the room.
“Found Room Modes” gives information about the found problems and what countermeasures to consider.
“Stimulus EQ” allows simulation of an equalized system with suggested frequency adjustments.
Frequency range: 16 - 250Hz


Spectrogram
The spectrogram is a 2D waterfall diagram which shows the room reverberation time to easily find problematic areas in the low frequency band.
Frequency range: 16 - 250Hz
Time: 0 - 250 ms

Frequency response - RTA
Real Time Analyzer (RTA).
Shows the frequency response in one place, with 1/3 octave resolution.
Frequency range: 16 - 20000Hz

Frequency response - SPL
FFT measurement with 2D/3D waterfall plot
Anechoic, Ambient & Raw visuell modes
Frequency range: 16 - 20000Hz
Time: 0 - 200 ms

Advanced SPL meter
Accurate SPL meter with selectable average lengths and frequency weighting.
Displays continuous and maximum peak values along with selected meter averages.

Tone Generator
Tone generator with a wide choice of output signals can be used independently of
measurements. Output signals include sine wave (10-20kHz), pink noise and white noise.

RT60 reverberation time measurement
Using the RT60-standard the XTZ Room Analyzer II PRO can measure the reverberation time
in your room between 125Hz and 8kHz in octave bands, allowing you to make appropriate
adjustments in sound damping and diffusion.

Delay Alignment
The new Delay Alignment tool is used for time alignment of sound sources. By measuring the distance from speakers and subwoofer, appropriate adjustments to your subwoofers position or phase settings can be made.

The manual can be found here:
http://www.xtz.se//product-assets/me...ls/RAIIENG.pdf

The US Distributor for XTZ Room Analyzer and Pro can be found here:
http://store.acousticfrontiers.com/X...er-II-Pro.html





Videos by Nyal Melor:




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Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System


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post #3 of 519 Old 07-21-2010, 06:19 PM
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Boy, that was fast
Great job
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post #4 of 519 Old 07-21-2010, 06:38 PM
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^^^

lol, sure was... i just finished posting in the other thread that he should fire it up...

this is gonna be a lot of fun...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

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post #5 of 519 Old 07-21-2010, 09:54 PM
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Great job in starting this thread.

Question on the room analyzer software, the most detailed graph view is with 6 ppo smoothing right? Is 6 ppo smoothing the same as 1/6 octave smoothing?

Also when measuring the sub (from say the main listening position), is the mic pointed up or pointed at the sub?
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post #6 of 519 Old 07-22-2010, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Great job in starting this thread.

Question on the room analyzer software, the most detailed graph view is with 6 ppo smoothing right? Is 6 ppo smoothing the same as 1/6 octave smoothing?

PPO is "Parts Per Octave". So yes, 6 ppo is the same as 1/6th octave smoothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Also when measuring the sub (from say the main listening position), is the mic pointed up or pointed at the sub?

Bass is non-directional, so the microphone can be placed straight up for measuring bass frequencies with the Room Analyzer. However, for measuring Full Range signals of speakers, (RTA, RT-60, 3D Waterfall), the microphone should be pointed at the speaker. The manual states:

Quote:


"When measuring the full frequency span, the
microphone should be pointed towards the speaker.
(The microphone is sensitive of directions over 5kHz)"

Craig

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post #7 of 519 Old 07-24-2010, 06:52 AM
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Thanks Craig.

I also notice that the XTZ software does a level check before taking measurements; i.e. if I turn up the volume slider in XTZ the first sweep tone will abruptly cut off. Does this happen to you all also?

If so, any idea what is the cut off point? I was trying to push the level high to see where was the limit of my sub but it seems XTZ will cut off.
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post #8 of 519 Old 07-26-2010, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Thanks Craig.

I also notice that the XTZ software does a level check before taking measurements; i.e. if I turn up the volume slider in XTZ the first sweep tone will abruptly cut off. Does this happen to you all also?

If so, any idea what is the cut off point? I was trying to push the level high to see where was the limit of my sub but it seems XTZ will cut off.

Excellent questions. Unfortunately, I don't have answers. In fact, I am somewhat mystified by the level setting process myself. I don't know how to set a specific level for the test tone. The manual tells you to set the slider in the middle of the range, then adjust the system volume to get the level meter to the green "G".



OK, but what level is that? Couldn't there be an SPL readout? More importantly, what do the SPL numbers in the Y-axis of the FR graph mean?



It would appear that the SPL being measured is about 55 dB. Yet, when I hold an SPL meter next to the microphone during the chirps, I read about 82 dB. This is with the Master Volume Control at -10 WRT Reference Level at 0. Why are the SPL's in the graph so far off from the actual SPL's?

Also, if I use the slider to increase the level, I get the same issue that jchong described, with the system abruptly aborting the chirp and resetting the level on it's own.

In another section, under the RT-60 measurements, the manual states that you need a 100 dB level to take accurate RT-60 measurements. (Background levels in most rooms is about 40 dB, so 40 + 60 = 100 dB.) With my system at MVC 0, I read 92 dB on my SPL meter. Do I need to turn the system up to +8? And with an SPL of 92, why do the graphs read less than 70 dB on the Y-axis?



Hopefully someone from xtz will shed some light on this. I had e-mailed xtz support when I posted this thread and Jens replied that they would look in and offer help if they could. I hope they will.

Craig
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post #9 of 519 Old 07-26-2010, 06:19 PM
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All excellent questions that you have raised. I'm curious too and hope that Jens will chime in.
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post #10 of 519 Old 07-26-2010, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

It would appear that the SPL being measured is about 55 dB. Yet, when I hold an SPL meter next to the microphone during the chirps, I read about 82 dB. This is with the Master Volume Control at -10 WRT Reference Level at 0. Why are the SPL's in the graph so far off from the actual SPL's?

Because those numbers are the output for the individual frequencies (smoothed) while the SLM is integrating all the signal across time.
Quote:


And with an SPL of 92, why do the graphs read less than 70 dB on the Y-axis?

See above.

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #11 of 519 Old 07-27-2010, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Because those numbers are the output for the individual frequencies (smoothed) while the SLM is integrating all the signal across time.
See above.

Kal,

First, just to be clear, your acronym "SLM", are you referring to a "Sound Level Meter"? Are you referring to the same thing I'm referring to when I use the acronym, "SPL meter", or "Sound Pressure Level" meter? I've just never seen it called an SLM before.

Assuming we are referring to the same device, then I don't understand your reply. These are "chirps", or sine wave sweeps, not noise signals. What would the SPL meter need to "integrate across time" with a sweep? If I hold my SPL meter right next to the xtz mic during the FR sweep, it reads 82 +/- 1 or 2 dB during the entire sweep, (SPL meter set up for C-weighting/Slow Response.) IOW, it (the SPL meter) is reading the SPL of each frequency, not summing the entire signal of a "noise" signal. OTOH, the resultant xtz FR graph shows an SPL of 55 +/- 3 dB, or about a 24 to 27 dB difference. That is a HUGE difference.

If the SPL of the sweep is read by my SPL meter as 82 +/- 2 dB, why does the xtz graph show each individual frequency of the sweep at 55 +/- 3 dB? To my mind, these SPL's should match within the calibrations of the individual devices. Certainly they can't be mis-calibrated by 24 to 27 dB.

Craig

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post #12 of 519 Old 07-27-2010, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Kal,

First, just to be clear, your acronym "SLM", are you referring to a "Sound Level Meter"? Are you referring to the same thing I'm referring to when I use the acronym, "SPL meter", or "Sound Pressure Level" meter? I've just never seen it called an SLM before.

Yes.

Quote:


Assuming we are referring to the same device, then I don't understand your reply. These are "chirps", or sine wave sweeps, not noise signals. What would the SPL meter need to "integrate across time" with a sweep? If I hold my SPL meter right next to the xtz mic during the FR sweep, it reads 82 +/- 1 or 2 dB during the entire sweep, (SPL meter set up for C-weighting/Slow Response.) IOW, it (the SPL meter) is reading the SPL of each frequency, not summing the entire signal of a "noise" signal. OTOH, the resultant xtz FR graph shows an SPL of 55 +/- 3 dB, or about a 24 to 27 dB difference. That is a HUGE difference.

XTZ is gating/analysing the sweep in order to distinguish and display the output at the different frequencies. The SLM cannot measure an instantaneous frequency in the sweep but has a time window ("Slow Response") over which it measures everything in its capability. So, let's say you play only two tones of 55dB so quickly in sequence that the time constant of the SLM prevents them from being distinguished, it would display 58dB.

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #13 of 519 Old 07-27-2010, 04:38 PM
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Thanks again CG for starting the thread.

I have a novice question on how to read the RT60 graph. Can someone point me in the direction of a primer on how to interpret that that is telling me?
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post #14 of 519 Old 07-28-2010, 08:23 AM
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2 questions for you users

Can it measure resonances/decay times in the 500-1000 hz region? I've only seen screenshots for <250 Hz

Is there any online source for the kit in the US or do you have to buy it & have shipped from overseas?

I would like something like this to use and don't want to steep learning curve or have to pay $400 for a mic/sound card kit (like with ETF)

Steve
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post #15 of 519 Old 07-28-2010, 09:24 AM
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Yes, I would love to know where I can order this. I live in Canada, and can't seem to find a place that will do it.
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post #16 of 519 Old 07-28-2010, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.xtz.se/uk/about-xtz/our-retailers

Quote:


International orders (from countries other than the ones listed above)
You can order by sending an email to: info@xtz.se
Please state your:

* name
* address
* country
* phone number
* and the prodicts you wish to purchase

We will email you the total cost (including shipping) and explain how payment is made.


Lombardi said it:
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post #17 of 519 Old 07-28-2010, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

2 questions for you users

Can it measure resonances/decay times in the 500-1000 hz region? I've only seen screenshots for <250 Hz

It can display decays across the entire 20-20k bandwidth but the output is only graphic, not numeric (except for RT60), and at lower resolution than for LF only.See pages 29-33 of manual (http://www.xtz.se/custom/database/fi...0095834-01.pdf).

Kal

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post #18 of 519 Old 07-28-2010, 01:41 PM
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^^
Thanks, Kal!

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post #19 of 519 Old 07-28-2010, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobski32 View Post

Yes, I would love to know where I can order this. I live in Canada, and can't seem to find a place that will do it.

You can just buy it online here: http://shop.xtz.se/Overview and they will charge you a flat rate for shipping and duties. With the exchange rates right now, it was a bargain. I wound up paying an extra 5 bucks in duties, but it was pretty painless.
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post #20 of 519 Old 07-28-2010, 05:37 PM
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Coo...thanks guys.

Just found another site that will ship it for £179.99 including shipping to Canada.

http://www.audiosanctum.co.uk/Access...r-Package.html

I hope this program is a good choice. I really am just learning all this stuff, and thought this might be the easiest way to get into it. Worst case scenario, if I can't figure it out then I'll just sell it I guess.
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post #21 of 519 Old 07-28-2010, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobski32 View Post

Yes, I would love to know where I can order this. I live in Canada, and can't seem to find a place that will do it.

I ordered mine from the UK, from this place: http://www.audiosanctum.co.uk/vmchk/...r-Package.html

Worked out to be cheaper. Note: they deduct VAT for out of UK shipments.
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post #22 of 519 Old 07-28-2010, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

XTZ is gating/analysing the sweep in order to distinguish and display the output at the different frequencies. The SLM cannot measure an instantaneous frequency in the sweep but has a time window ("Slow Response") over which it measures everything in its capability. So, let's say you play only two tones of 55dB so quickly in sequence that the time constant of the SLM prevents them from being distinguished, it would display 58dB.

I suppose one way to verify is to play test tones instead. Use the RTA function on XTZ and play some test tones say at 20Hz, 40Hz, 50Hz and 80Hz. Compare the RTA reading (at those frequencies) vs SPL meter.

Would that work?
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post #23 of 519 Old 07-29-2010, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

I suppose one way to verify is to play test tones instead. Use the RTA function on XTZ and play some test tones say at 20Hz, 40Hz, 50Hz and 80Hz. Compare the RTA reading (at those frequencies) vs SPL meter.
Would that work?

It should, within the error boundaries of the two and assuming both are calibrated.

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http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #24 of 519 Old 07-29-2010, 06:10 PM
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I'm confused about how to plug the RCA cable into my Onkyo 1007 AVR. I want to check out the response to my full audio system, after running the 8033 AntiMode followed by Audyssey. Do I use RCA cable coming out of the mike, and then the Y-cable and plug it into one of the 1007's stereo inputs (e.g., the VCR input)? Then I don't see any use for the two RCA connections coming out of the base. ?? TIA
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post #25 of 519 Old 07-29-2010, 08:38 PM
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Good thread--glad i found it. Just got my Kit last week, hope we can all learn to use this tool together.

I've played with it a bit, and the one thing i can't figure is why i keep getting a message that says "No nodes found"?

Perhaps because I'm running full range? And sometimes I do get a node. Anyway, looking forward to enjoying the XTZ.

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post #26 of 519 Old 07-31-2010, 10:50 PM
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OK, a friend helped get the SW downloaded; I'm a Mac guy, but have gotten 'Fusion' to run Windows XP within a shell on the Mac. It works!

I finally decided I didn't need the two RCA outputs on the base; simply the USB cable, that is attached to the mike frame, to the laptop, and the RCA line, attached to the base, connected to the long one to the AVR.

I was pleasantly surprised to find that my room is not bad w/o any eq to start with: no more that a 5 dB variation from min to max over the whole range. I then turn on the AntiMode 8033, and then run Audyssey. I also have a BFD 1024 lying around, I thought about using it to set the 1 or 2 filers the XTZ suggests, but finally decided it's more trouble than it's worth, e.g., having to get the level set so as not to clip, etc. (With WOTW I couldn't get the AVR low enough for the BFD not to clip!)

So I'm very pleased with the XTZ: it very fast, so one can run it many times, before and after all the possibilities, e.g., with or w/o the AntiMode and/or Audyssey, and also with the Sub arranged in different ways.

BTW, I find the my SubMersive gives best results sitting by the side of a couch, with one of the woofers pointing out into the room, and the other back at the wall, about 8-9 in from the wall.
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post #27 of 519 Old 07-31-2010, 10:57 PM
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How do you get the screen shots into a format where you can post your XTZ graphs?

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post #28 of 519 Old 08-01-2010, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

How do you get the screen shots into a format where you can post your XTZ graphs?

You can either:

1) Use the "print screen" button to capture a screen shot
2) Within the XTZ software go to File --> Export Screen Dump. This will create a bmp of the screen
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post #29 of 519 Old 08-01-2010, 07:19 AM
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Cool, thanks.
That will help us all with this thread.

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post #30 of 519 Old 08-01-2010, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

(With WOTW I couldn't get the AVR low enough for the BFD not to clip!)

Are you sure you had the setting on the back of the BFD at -10dBv (pushed in for home) instead of +4dBv (pushed out for studio)?

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don't insult my intelligents
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