I need some advice about upgrading... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 10-01-2010, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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hello everyone,

I need some advice on my current system and also upgrading them pretty soon. I am fairly new at this but am picking up speed quick and learning a lot from all of you guys.

Current Setup
Definitive Technology Mythos 1's for front towers, a LCR3002 for a center, Prosub1000, and 4 promonitor 800's for rears. It is being all powered by a Denon 2308CI amp.


Option #1
Bowers and Wilkins CM9s for front towers, CMC2 for center channel, ASW10 for a sub and probably hold off on rears for now because my bank account will need to recoop but eventually some bookshelves. All keeping it powered by the Denon 2308CI.

Option #2
Martin Logan 8'' Electrostatic source towers for front towers, Motif center channel, dynamo 700 subwoofer and motion 4's for the rears. again keeping the system powered with the Denon 2308CI.


I primarily watch sports and movies and listen to music on CD. I am 22 years old and listen to my music fairly loud when i demo my speakers. I am just asking for some helpful advice and opinions on what any of you would do in my situation and a reason why. I plan on selling my Def Tech bundle so once i make the decision its done.

Thank you ahead of time guys.
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post #2 of 15 Old 10-03-2010, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 15 Old 10-03-2010, 01:20 PM
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I offer up no specifics, however some general guidelines. For HT usage, I'd stay away from lower sensitivity speakers in general. The ML electrostats would produce very high levels of distortion products when driven at realistic HT playback levels.

I'd really look at very high sensitivity products, including controlled directivity mid and high frequency designs. Delve into how dynamic compression affects different types of speakers and learn about peak to average "crest" ratios and how important high sensitivity, low compression, high power handling, controlled directivity designs impact the HT experience.

Oftentimes the transition between the sub and the bass driver(s) in the mains is overlooked. One needs significant output in the 200hz. region and below. That means they need to move some air. A single six or single eight inch driver handling that region is likely not capable of high output, low distortion, compression free presentation. This has been a casualty of the sub/sat trend that began in the 90s.

Also, conventional dome tweeters are not high output, low distortion, designs. They are typically not capable of handling the peak demands of high crest factor HT audio, and outputing realistic SPLs, all of which are hallmarks of contemporary soundtracks.

What one gets via these designs is what I characterize as a very transparent sound, with more apparent "speed" and snap to the leading edges of transients. No thickening or sluggish behavior, and no smearing of transient detail. These are what I typically find when listening to less capable systems. These dynamic traits become very easy to discern when one is exposed to typical products, and then exposure to products that place a high priority on dynamics.

IMO, once one experiences the benefits of what these design characteristics have to offer, and how inexpensively they can be attained by prudent decision making, wrt HT...there's no going back.

Now a strictly music only system, doesn't necessarily have the same requirements as long as "live" playback levels aren't required

Good luck


btw; very important...there is no correlation between price and these design considerations, IOW, one can go this route as inexpensively as any other route

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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post #4 of 15 Old 10-03-2010, 02:12 PM
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post #5 of 15 Old 10-03-2010, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Neither of those are products I would select. I would look at the manufacturers I recommend at www.homecinemaguru.com.

Keeping in mind the OPs needs and price range of the options mentioned, which of the speaker products on your site would you point to and why?

Thanks

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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post #6 of 15 Old 10-04-2010, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Keeping in mind the OPs needs and price range of the options mentioned, which of the speaker products on your site would you point to and why?

Thanks

That would involve more information and time. If he wishes specific and carefully considered advice I am available for hire. Otherwise he can sort through the information on my site and other resources and determine that for himself.
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post #7 of 15 Old 10-04-2010, 08:45 AM
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Jersyborn,

There are many contributors here, industry professionals and enthusiasts, that will be glad to give very specific information, without the need to attempt to gain personal profit from sharing such information.

This individual that's directing you to their site, and refusing to offer any general ideas unless you "hire" their services, in the context of this thread that's nonsense.

Additionally, this individual has enough time and information to say that your potential choices are no good, however if you want more specifics pick one of the brands on my site or hire me.

I'm sure this individual has a good base of knowledge, however it appears to be spread very thin. That's the beauty of these AVS boards, very specific advice can be had from very bright, selfless contributors. The depth of expertise of the contributors in specific areas of A/V, is phenomenal, and would rival the finest information one could attain from professionals in that field.

Furthermore, you will find many industry professionals often suggesting alternatives to their products, and helping resolve issues etc. Point being, I'm sure Mr. Meier offers fine services, however other proprietors and enthusiasts post here as well, and will gladly be as specific as necessary to resolve your questions.

You may find further information in the speaker threads, as well as other areas.

Thanks

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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post #8 of 15 Old 10-04-2010, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Neither of those are products I would select. I would look at the manufacturers I recommend at www.homecinemaguru.com.

Interesting site, I will have to find time to read it all.

Im definitely with you and FOH on not selecting the products he listed for HT.

Quote:


That would involve more information and time. If he wishes specific and carefully considered advice I am available for hire

The OP can get professional advice for free on here so he should exhaust all online avenues first before wasting $$$ unless its a complete in-house professional job.

Sorry but no one should pay for advice alone since there is tons of accurate and detailed information on these forums.

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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post #9 of 15 Old 10-04-2010, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Neither of those are products I would select. I would look at the manufacturers I recommend at www.homecinemaguru.com.

Thanx for the site tip.
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post #10 of 15 Old 10-04-2010, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

That would involve more information and time. If he wishes specific and carefully considered advice I am available for hire. Otherwise he can sort through the information on my site and other resources and determine that for himself.

I thought this site was about sharing information and providing answers. And NOT redirecting members to other websites so you can make a profit.

So should every response to a question be - "just check out my website"?????
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post #11 of 15 Old 10-04-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiianHDaddict View Post


I thought this site was about sharing information and providing answers. And NOT redirecting members to other websites so you can make a profit.

So should every response to a question be - "just check out my website"?????

I do not profit from that site it just answers many questions I receive without repeating things over and over. It also provides insite on various topics. If someone wants me to spend time going back and forth on their gear I charge for my time.
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post #12 of 15 Old 10-04-2010, 10:48 AM
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It appears to be a really nice site and thanks for the clarification.

Could you direct us to the more specific speaker info in question?

Thanks

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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post #13 of 15 Old 10-04-2010, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

It appears to be a really nice site and thanks for the clarification.

Could you direct us to the more specific speaker info in question?

Thanks

There is not enough info in the original post to point to specific speakers and subwoofers. Things like room volume, distances, seating positions, room acoustic environment, size limitations, actual $ budget and typical listening levels would need to be known to make specific recommendations. Info on how to approach it along with sample systems are shown on my blog site.

I do know the products listed are not what I find to be good values.
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post #14 of 15 Old 10-04-2010, 11:52 AM
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Having upgraded the last time in 1999, I recently spent about a year or two on this sight getting ideas. One thing that turned me off were threads that asked, "What ____ should I get?" There were a multitude of opinions from a variety of different people with no real way to weight the responses.

Having spent time here and knowing that a Pioneer Plasma would be part of the system, I did decide that once acquired, I would contact Jeff for calibration.

In advance, I sent Jeff an introductory e-mail and stated that I would like to hire him as an A/V consultant to help in upgrading to a new system.

We began an e-mail exchange that lasted from Spring 2009 - Spring 2010, during which time we acquired a new plasma panel, new amplification, pre-amplification, subwoofers, speakers and source components. It also involved a December visit from Jeff for video calibration and an April visit for audio calibration.

Julie and I were amazed at the results and still smile every night as we enjoy the system, whether for music, TV or Blu-Ray movies. Jeff is a pleasure to be around and possesses a wealth of knowledge.

If you appreciate the value and expertise that a consultant can bring, you will get a bargin with Jeff.

Chris
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post #15 of 15 Old 10-05-2010, 09:33 AM
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IMO, with the exception of some calibration services, everything that a consultant would bring to the table can be accomplished yourself. With careful research, and prudent use of these forums, it's possible that one could achieve better results than using a third party consultant.

Now there are exceptions and there's certainly some world class services available, however not all of these individuals are as well versed in all areas of HT.

At times, I'm truly amazed at the level of intellect of some AVS threads. As I've stated, industry leaders and some of the brightest individuals in their respective fields frequently contribute.

It is possible to get lost in the minutia, and a third party could help organize some aspects, and keep the big picture in sight. But yes, the level of information available here, and via careful internet research, is state of the art.

Thanks

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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