For all the mega buck cable devotees - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 07:31 AM
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Or they could flip flop and keep everyone arguing day after day after day after day, which BTW is today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZbtAFq7dP8

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post #272 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 07:31 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uhob...eature=related
This guy is a salesman, full of crap!
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post #273 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
Gizmo, I commented on room/space acoustics and speakers. I did not discuss pro electronic components at all. No matter how good the elecronics are, with the acoustics not being optimal and live event speakers being optimized for playing loudly with as little distortion as possible at high levels... high end cables would not be called for on live events. These type of speakers are not designed to reveal the fine nuances that very high end home speakers do. In your world shielding, balanced runs and durability would be primary concern. So I believe my prior post is accurate. Once again, I am not discussing a recording/mastering studio.
So, I shouldn't purchase any CD, DVD-A, or SACD of live concerts?

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #274 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 07:39 AM
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But the speakers and stuff, they don't change that out do they? They must then have 3 days advance set up.
Some acts have two to three crews:

1st crew is in before the act shows up. Setting up equipment etc...

2nd crew is with the band and also for tear down

3rd crew (not always a 3rd crew) is for tear down. Just depends on the size and complexity of the act.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #275 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
Gizmo, I commented on room/space acoustics and speakers. I did not discuss pro electronic components at all. No matter how good the elecronics are, with the acoustics not being optimal and live event speakers being optimized for playing loudly with as little distortion as possible at high levels... high end cables would not be called for on live events. These type of speakers are not designed to reveal the fine nuances that very high end home speakers do. In your world shielding, balanced runs and durability would be primary concern. So I believe my prior post is accurate. Once again, I am not discussing a recording/mastering studio.

Punkhd, go clean your room or better yet, browse the Sears catalogue and dream of your first system.

I will disagree with you on thinking pro audio designs not revealing the finer nuances that very high end home speakers do. You are generalizing too much just because you see the term "Pro". You have no idea about the drivers involved and what constitutes a BETTER design.

K2 S9900 are the best speaker I have heard. Danley's products are top SQ/lowest distortion designs that exist. Mark Seaton uses B&C drivers and his Catalysts may not have your fancy looks and name brand recognition but I bet you any $$$ that in a real controlled test those designs reveal any nuance that exists in any content you put through them.

The above designs are techinically superior designs then the audiophile favorite B&W 802D. Pro audio designs can cost MORE then popular home choices.

Lets just say that this part of the dicussion is not a territory you have any knowledge off. Do you know anything about speaker designs??

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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post #276 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Lee (QSC) View Post
That's exactly the point Giz and many other knowledgeable people have been making. Quality cables aren't magic, and they really aren't expensive, either.
Some points that are lost though:

1. Make high cost cables that are engineered to sound 'different'. Then market that difference.

2. Make something with a box in the middle full of passive electronics and call it a 'cable' (it isn't)

3. Only Pass Labs, Parasound etc... have Electrical and Audio engineers on staff with decades of experience solving problems that where licked 20 years ago.


An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #277 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post
I will disagree with you on thinking pro audio designs not revealing the finer nuances that very high end home speakers do. You are generalizing too much just because you see the term "Pro". You have no idea about the drivers involved and what constitutes a BETTER design.

K2 S9900 are the best speaker I have heard. Danley's products are top SQ/lowest distortion designs that exist. Mark Seaton uses B&C drivers and his Catalysts may not have your fancy looks and name brand recognition but I bet you any $$$ that in a real controlled test those designs reveal any nuance that exists in any content you put through them.

The above designs are techinically superior designs then the audiophile favorite B&W 802D. Pro audio designs can cost MORE then popular home choices.

How do the vintage horned Altecs compare to the K2?

Lets just say that this part of the dicussion is not a territory you have any knowledge off. Do you know anything about speaker designs??
As I posted previously, there are always exceptions. Also note I'm talking about the typical large venue pro speakers and not smaller scale studio pro speakers.

The K2 does seem impressive though.
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post #278 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 08:30 AM
 
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I'm talking about the typical large venue pro speakers
Which models are you talking about?
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The K2 does seem impressive though.
You mean the looks?
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post #279 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Outlaw30 View Post
I'm sure that having more than one ID on this forum is FREE! So, that's something the cheapskates would take advantage of.
Just came across another convincing fact to show geekhd is razr67. In over 10 years here, geekhd is the ONLY member to save my posts as they are immediately done (I'm sure now they line his walls of his bedroom, next to his Spongebob decals), and he always posts the precorrected version if it suits him.

Note my above post # 240 where the corrected version said "you skepticians are losing it...." Note razr67"s aka geekhd's repost of my post #241 "you guys are losing it...kind of comical." A second after I posted I removed the "comical" because it was an unnecessary comment. While like a pack rat he hoards my first post versions and pastes them to his wall for later use. He has done this countless times even days after my correction is done he reposts with the original version. Guys it's him!!!!!
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post #280 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
I call it the way I see it.
^^
And in there lies the entire crux of the problem. Wear a blind fold and prove it.

Why do 'burned' cables always sound 'better'. Why couldn't they sound worse?

Why do expensive cables with hyperbolic names always sound better. Why couldn't they sound worse?

I was involved in a thread at PF where bet them $100 that they couldn't, with ears only using any testing methodology (sighted or blind), tell the difference between some Belden 12AWG that had 400 hours plus and Belden 12AWG with zero use.

The only restriction: they couldn't know before hand which cable was which. Guess how many stepped up to take my cash? Guess what all the myriad of excuses were?

By what you want to buy, spend on it what you want to spend. At least perform a blind evaluation. If you don't trust your ears, why should anyone else?

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #281 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
Just came across another convincing fact to show geekhd is razr67. In over 10 years here, geekhd is the ONLY member to save my posts as they are immediately done (I'm sure now they line his walls of his bedroom, next to his Spongebob decals), and he always posts the precorrected version if it suits him.

Note my above post # 240 where the corrected version said "you skepticians are losing it...." Note geekhd's repost of my post #241 "you guys are losing it...kind of comical." A second after I posted I removed the "comical" because it was an unnecessary comment. While like a pack rat he hoards my first post versions and pastes them to his wall for later use. He has done this countless times even days after my correction is done he reposts with the original version. Guys it's him!!!!!
Please report your concerns to the moderation team, they add no value to this discussion.
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post #282 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Riffmeister View Post
"Ever heard of Meyersound? They design, manufacture and install some of the largest commercial grade rock concert style systems you can imagine. SPL capability easily in the 130+ range at 100 ft. 60 cabinet line arrays, broadcast quality electronics, 1000watt subs are a daily occurrence.
Most pro AV houses have Meyer systems coupled with racks and racks of the TOTL amps, processors, 200,000.00 mix boards etc. Now THAT is high end."

-Gizmo, on Meyer Sound speakers. You can almost hear his voice crack as he drools over them.
Funny, I don't see where Giz said they were the end all be all in what you quoted. Can you try fishing again and come up with the real prize? Or can we just agree someone tried to put words in his mouth?

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #283 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 08:54 AM
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Which models are you talking about?

You mean the looks?
razr67 re: the JBL K2s, if you must know: the low resonance enclosure and internal bracing structure, the drivers, the crossover, the frequency response, low freq extension to 33 hz, all at a very impressive efficiency 93 db. Time for a break...your snack is ready.
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post #284 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 09:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

RE: the JBL K2s

razr67, if you must know: the drivers, the crossover, the frequency response, low freq extension to 33 hz, all at a very impressive efficiency 93 db. Time for a break...your snack is ready.

You need to take a break and regroup. You are now up to your nose in the hole you've dug.

You replied to penngray, "Also note I'm talking about the typical large venue pro speakers and not smaller scale studio pro speakers."
I asked you which models of typical large venue pro speakers you are talking about and your answer is JBL K2s. You either don't know anything about JBL K2s or really need to stay away from the computer for the rest of the day. That is unless you don't mind continuing to embarrass yourself.
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post #285 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 09:12 AM
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Please report your concerns to the moderation team, they add no value to this discussion.

It has no value? When the same person uses multiple IDs to play a "safety in numbers game", the readers have a right to know. I would not be surprised if a small number of people with multiple IDs are doing the bulk of the trash talking regarding high end cables on this forum. AVS should look into this regarding the member in question and others here.
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post #286 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 09:13 AM
 
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How many ID's do you have?

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AVS should look into this regarding the member in question and others here.

..and when they find out that you and Grex are the same person, they'll ban you
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post #287 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

You need to take a break and regroup. You are now up to your nose in the hole you've dug.

You replied to penngray, "Also note I'm talking about the typical large venue pro speakers and not smaller scale studio pro speakers."
I asked you which models you are talking about and your answer is JBL K2s. You either don't know anything about JBL K2s or really need to stay away from the computer for the rest of the day. That is unless you don't mind continuing to embarrass yourself.

"you need to take a break and regroup"... Now you are copying my lines I have used in the past against other skepticians. I think I have an envious stalker on my hands.

You know the law looks at the failure to respond where one, under the circumstances, "should" as a form of "admission" and you haven't made any comments re your duel membership names. Hey Gizmo, now thats what is very "revealing."
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post #288 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Outlaw30 View Post

It has no value? When the same person uses multiple IDs to play a "safety in numbers game", the readers have a right to know. I would not be surprised if a small number of people with multiple IDs are doing the bulk of the trash talking regarding high end cables on this forum.

First, please take your conspiracy theories to a more appropriate forum. Second, you and the other believers in boutique cables can put this to rest by simply providing valid test results. So far all I've seen are anecdotes and parroting of marketing material. Will you take the lead and provide the data?
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AVS should look into this regarding the member in question and others here.

That's why I suggested he report it.
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post #289 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 09:18 AM
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Knock it off guys...

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post #290 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 09:30 AM
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It has no value? I would not be surprised if a small number of people with multiple IDs are doing the bulk of the trash talking regarding high end cables on this forum. .

I completely agree. I think that there are some cable manufacturers sending people to this forum to trash talk how these cables made a SQ difference. Then there are some suckers that went out and bought a bunch of high-end cable - of couse without doing any ABX test. And now they are learning that science does indeed trump marketing. So instead of realizing their mistake an addmitting they got fooled into buying snake oil, they come here to justify their purchase. Makes them feel better about wasting money.

Bottom line is I think you are right. Its only a few guys talking up cables because there cant be THAT many gullible people out there who believe cables make a difference when it can be shown over and over and over again that they do not. If they did make a difference the manufactures of such cable could SHOW it. They dont because they cant because it dosent.

Also, would anyone mind ansewring my question about the magic cables transforming the interior cables inside the speaker into the same magic cables??? Can I get an answer please? How is it possible for them to do this and how could magic cables work if the cable in the speaker is sub-standard? Maybe these cables are so magical that they are able to send the signal right around the interior cables directly to the crossover...Is that possible? Is that why they are so expensive? I cant imagine that anyone would use really expensive cable for the exterior and then have cheaper regular non-magical cable for the interior. Nobody is that stupid.

Come on Pro high-end cable guys...educate me. I am sure you guys did a little research before you dropped all that cash on these special cables...You guys should be the experts.
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post #291 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 09:34 AM
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Also, would anyone mind ansewring my question about the magic cables transforming the interior cables inside the speaker into the same magic cables??? Can I get an answer please? How is it possible for them to do this and how could magic cables work if the cable in the speaker is sub-standard? Maybe these cables are so magical that they are able to send the signal right around the interior cables directly to the crossover...Is that possible? Is that why they are so expensive? I cant imagine that anyone would use really expensive cable for the exterior and then have cheaper regular non-magical cable for the interior. Nobody is that stupid.

Come on Pro high-end cable guys...educate me. I am sure you guys did a little research before you dropped all that cash on these special cables...You guys should be the experts.

Egglestonworks has used Transparent wire for the internal wiring in their speakers. This is very high end wire. Not sure if they presently use it.

http://www.transparentcable.com/index2.html
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post #292 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 09:52 AM
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Egglestonworks has used Transparent wire for the internal wiring in their speakers. This is very high end wire. Not sure if they presently use it.

http://www.transparentcable.com/index2.html

I am reading up on the OPUS MM2 Balanced Interconnect

Here is the description of it.

Based upon hundreds of hours of listening tests and a large database of performance characteristics of audio components, Transparent designs each OPUS MM2 Balanced Interconnect to free the spirit of your source components with balanced connections.

Ok, what do they mean by listening tests? What type of test? That could mean just sitting there listening to them with zero point of reference. If you hve 100's of hours of tests that means there are hundreds of hourrs of results. Where are they

Where is the database of performance characteristics? What are these characteristics? Can we get some answers from the experts?

If the results were so favorable towards these cables why not show them? There is nothing here but marketing nonsense designed to fool idiots. Of course the best part is "freeing the spirit of your source components" What the hell does that mean? If thee cables can make things sound a certain way then show it...it would obviously be measureable. Why not pos the results? Why not say 9 out of 10 people heard more highs with these cable,lower lows, better mids...

What is going on here? Answers please and telling me some high-end speaker manufacturer may or may not have used them at one time means ZERO.
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post #293 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

Egglestonworks has used Transparent wire for the internal wiring in their speakers. This is very high end wire. Not sure if they presently use it.

http://www.transparentcable.com/index2.html

What type of wire is inside your speakers?
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post #294 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 09:59 AM
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What type of wire is inside your speakers?

I own Egglestonworks.
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post #295 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 10:00 AM
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I own Egglestonworks.

Thanks, do they use Transparent wire? Which version, Ultra Super Plus? How do you know? Does it include the "networks" features?
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post #296 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 10:03 AM
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What type of wire is inside your speakers?

THHN or THWN 12 AWG..sonic bliss. 500ft is about $30 or less. there is no sound in a piece of wire.
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post #297 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 10:08 AM
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Has Egglestonworks said that the Transparent wire SOUNDED better than other wires? Do they still use it? Why did they choose it or discontinue using it?
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post #298 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 10:53 AM
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Mostly speaker makers will use some branded nonsense so they can sell a few more units to teh fools. Most of teh legit speaker makers KNOW it's BS. But for marketing to audiophooles, it sells products. My favorite speakers have both, and there is no reason to use anything other than some 12ga tHHN. They do it for sales BS. Move product is the goal of any company, if it takes the BS wires to sell to nitwits, so be it.
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post #299 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I was always very good in high school writing compositions but these WalletDrainer cable manufacturers eclipse most anything I could come up.

From the perspective of pure and complete lack of anything remotely resembling actual scientific knowledge and phenomenal sonic gullibility, they are par excellence.

I am always amazed that one group of purveyors of sonic voodoo center on wires, another concentrates on non conductive vibration dampers and yet another insists that the equipment designers have absolutely no knowledge as to which audiophool grade components are available with which to build the equipment.

Has anyone of these buffoons ever tried to be the one stop source for all things related to audio BS? What about acoustic enhanced room paint?

Is there a feng sheui scenario for audio listening?
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post #300 of 668 Old 02-02-2011, 11:58 AM
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