Vinyl Records vs Cd's - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 156 Old 04-20-2011, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by htcritic View Post

Actually I was pointing out that there is a percentage of vinyl lovers that are not quite as ignorant as you want to point out or believe.

I was also pointing out that those that have a digital bias seem to be more likely to engage in name calling and other reprehensive behaviours, as you have illustrated so very well with your mean spirited post. But knowing you and your history. I wouldn't expect any better from you.

Or, I have illustrated that when you engage in generalizations about 'CD lovers', some might respond critically.

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When you go through life with a bitter, sarcastic, skewed view, you are more apt to ascribe that to others. It's called projection and at that, you have no equal.

Says the guy writing about penngray having a permanent 'hard on' against vinyl. You fuzzy peace-loving little bunny you.
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post #92 of 156 Old 04-20-2011, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

Or, I have illustrated that when you engage in generalizations about 'CD lovers', some might respond critically.



Says the guy writing about penngray having a permanent 'hard on' against vinyl. You fuzzy peace-loving little bunny you.

So here's the thing. In posting my opinions, I didn't call anybody ignorant. So if you want to respond critically, go ahead. But there's a world of a difference between posting an opinion that more digital lovers tend to attack vinyl lovers than visa versa and calling an entire group ignorant. But, again, given your history it's what I would expect from you.

And regarding Penn, he obviously took it as it was meant, hence the lack of response from him. I've read and responded to Penn for years and my post was not meant critically. It was facutal and in no way insulting.

But again, you iterpreted it with what is in your heart. Bitterness, as that's how the world seems to you. Or at least that's how you come across in most of your posts. My opinion.

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post #93 of 156 Old 04-20-2011, 12:49 PM
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Weird. This exchange is mutual "kettle calling pot black" territory. Having read (and learned a great deal from) many of the posts from both over the years, from my observation, you two are pretty much in lockstep agreement 90%+ of the time. And for that matter, I have perceived little difference in the way of the "soft arts" of communication, i.e., the way either of you engage with posters whom you may disagree with. So I'm not exactly sure what *this* is all about.

Given that, all I can figure is that this little exchange is merely lion cubs play-fighting for practice, I guess.


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post #94 of 156 Old 04-20-2011, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by htcritic View Post

So here's the thing. In posting my opinions, I didn't call anybody ignorant. So if you want to respond critically, go ahead. But there's a world of a difference between posting an opinion that more digital lovers tend to attack vinyl lovers than visa versa and calling an entire group ignorant. But, again, given your history it's what I would expect from you.

Well, I see there'ssome serious sentence-parsing in order, at very least. When I wrote

"the wild and technically ignorant or pseudoscientific claims vinylphiles often make for vinyl, and against digital"

I didn't mean every vinylphile makes those claims. It means that it is often vinylphiles who do. And 'ignorant' modifies 'claims', not 'vinylphiles' (do you think I believe they are 'wild' too?)

Perhaps I should have written 'ignorant vinylphiles' to indicate they are a category within the class? I thought it was apparent, though, from previous exchange that I recognized that vinylphiles like 'you' existed.

Could it be you interpreted this all with what is in your heart?
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post #95 of 156 Old 04-20-2011, 06:41 PM
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Geez, talk about a trolling thread....or at the least, opening a can of worms . I thought this debate died about 25yrs ago.

Post #3 - ^^^^^^^^

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Weird. This exchange is mutual "kettle calling pot black" territory.

Just sayin'....

And again, if any vinyl lovers here want to buy the 500+ I still have stored away, feel free to PM me .

And man, I'm just glad that beside 45's, 33's & 8 track, I didn't get too carried away with cassettes...and never bought into DAT (close call! ). CD's are where this train ends for this kid . OK, okay....maybe some SACDs, some MP3, FLAC..............
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post #96 of 156 Old 04-20-2011, 07:25 PM
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And man, I'm just glad that beside 45's, 33's & 8 track, I didn't get too carried away with cassettes...and never bought into DAT (close call! ). CD's are where this train ends for this kid . OK, okay....maybe some SACDs, some MP3, FLAC..............

I too have had small collections of just about everything over the years, from dozens to hundreds, even some cassettes. Recently have been ripping CD's to mp3 with the intent of selling the CD's, but of course never get around to actually selling them. Basically the mp3's play in the car or as background music in the house in random/loop mode... otherwise we play CD's (or BD or DVD).

Someday I gotta get rid of all the stuff we never listen to anymore. Nothing against vinyl, but I sold most of my collection a couple years ago. I prefer the sound of vinyl probably because that's what I'm accustomed to hearing. If they could make CD's sound like vinyl (without surface noise or track wear) I'd go for that for sure. But as I posted here last week, the convenience of CD far outweighs the "warm and fuzzy" sound of vinyl.

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post #97 of 156 Old 04-21-2011, 07:36 AM
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...And again, if any vinyl lovers here want to buy the 500+ I still have stored away, feel free to PM me .

You have PM

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post #98 of 156 Old 04-21-2011, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

...Is there any connection between the wild and technically ignorant or pseudoscientific claims vinylphiles often make for vinyl, and against digital (see HelloCDclub's posts above, or pick posts at random from the 'Hardware' forum on SteveHoffman.tv), and the 'demeaning' that sometimes follow them? Seems likely.

Did you know all that when you posted? Pretty sure you did.

This is where you went from posting your opinions and observations to personal insult and attack. Needless. You made an assumption about what I do and do not know. In fact I'm not even aware of SteveHoffman.tv's site let alone vist the hardware forum there.

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...So, were you engaging in hyperbole, or even, dare we say, trolling?

No. I was showing that another side existed to those hated vinyl lovers. Most all I know listen to vinyl in addition to, not in replacement of, CD. Most I know would never argue that vinyl, as a medium, is superior to CD. Most would argue that they prefer vinyl but are willing to admit that this may have more to do with emotional reasons than actual technical ones. This was not and is not a troll.

You just have a knack for taking just about anything and making it personal. It's who you are. No reason to hide from it.

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures ...
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post #99 of 156 Old 04-21-2011, 10:16 AM
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Thank you so much for explaining my Tuesday post again to everyone, htcritic. Who knew it would be such a rich source of insights? I look forward to the next installment, where you focus on two more sentences from it.





(Not really; you can let it go now.)
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post #100 of 156 Old 04-21-2011, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

Weird. This exchange is mutual "kettle calling pot black" territory. Having read (and learned a great deal from) many of the posts from both over the years, from my observation, you two are pretty much in lockstep agreement 90%+ of the time. And for that matter, I have perceived little difference in the way of the "soft arts" of communication, i.e., the way either of you engage with posters whom you may disagree with. So I'm not exactly sure what *this* is all about.

Given that, all I can figure is that this little exchange is merely lion cubs play-fighting for practice, I guess.

Pulllleeeeeezzz!
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post #101 of 156 Old 04-21-2011, 01:20 PM
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Thank you so much for explaining my Tuesday post again to everyone, htcritic. Who knew it would be such a rich source of insights? I look forward to the next installment, where you focus on two more sentences from it.





(Not really; you can let it go now.)

About as much as I am looking forward to reading your never ending sarcastic drivel. Bet you a buck you have to get in the last word. It's your nature.

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post #102 of 156 Old 04-21-2011, 02:31 PM
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Ahem...if I could interrupt for a moment...

Please, no more PMs about my albums (which was my suggestion, lol ). I suppose it was as much a hollow begging to begin with, as I'm not the kind of person to sell something blindly to another person without being 100% sure of its fair market value. And the truth is, that I'm not going to take the time to revive one of two stored turntables, listen to each album, assess it's condition...and then present a list of what's what. It's too much hassle. I would consider selling them as "one lot", and someone would have to make an offer based on that. And that's about it. The collection is probably 90% 70's R&R (including prog rock, R&B, hard rock...think Yes, Zeppelin, Tull, Beatles, Floyd, Rush.. and a ton of others). It's been close to 20yrs since I've even spun one, and while all are playable, I know that many are scratched and crackle and pop a bit. Of course, that assessment may be overly general, as I was as anal about cleaning and caring for them as I was careless with them. I'm just not the kind of person who can sell something like this without there being an agreement (like...it'd be nice if you could hear it first...but I know, I know...). But thanks to those who have inquired, and I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

I now return you to your regular programming......
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post #103 of 156 Old 04-21-2011, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by htcritic View Post

Penn has always had a hard on against vinyl and has not been shy about posting his opinions against it. He is consistant. He hates it and feels that only a particular segment of music listeners like it, and does not see it as additive. I suspect that somebody must have paddled him with a record when he was younger.

But some years ago, and I'm too lazy to search, Penn also stated that he seldom, if ever, listens to music critically. He stated that he is more of a casual listener and his iPod works just fine for him in most situations.

But how much can be said? Is CD technically superior. Of course it is. Does it always fulful its promise? Of course not. Are some vinyl recordings superior to CD? Yes. Reason? Mastering. Is this the norm? Speculative. Does my listening to vinyl hurt anybody? Nope. Am I foolish enough to suggest that vinyl is technically superior to CD? Never. Does vinyl distort? Of course. Do I happen to love the sound of that distortion? Yep. Have most vinyl lovers suggested that those that love CD throw them away and listen only to vinyl? Rare. Do CD lovers demean those that like vinyl? Often. Why? Who knows and who cares.

I didnt reply because I have been too busy to remember this discussion

I was never paddled with any vinyl, that was funny My first experience with audio was listening to Queen, News to the world on Vinyl. LOVED IT!!!! I still would have no problem with enjoying a great song or two played on that medium but it would drive me nuts having to move a needle, clean something, find the next song, etc seems like a HUGE amount of effort. I would also hate that I could not listen in any room in my house.

As for critical listening, what I say is that I never get caught up in worrying about any song being played on the ultimate setup. I can enjoy a great song on an Ipod as much as I do on my best system. Of course with everything being digital I have 100% choice where I play that song. Im not a guy to sit still and just listen, I simply do not sit still with music playing because music stirs creativity and Im at my best designing something when its on....that might be weird but its how I work. I listen to music when I build speakers and LOVE it. I listen to music when Im designing software.

Im a critical listener in the sense that I listen to understand what speakers and setups are doing. I listen and measure to learn what I can about what I build or buy.

Yes, you are right...Im consistent with my hatred of Vinyl but I never said it sounds like crap just most do because of the years of abuse. To me only OCD types go to great lengths to convince everyone Vinyl is superior and everything else sucks. Someone being OCD and having a great imagination makes for the most extreme audiophile

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post #104 of 156 Old 04-21-2011, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dbx123 View Post

Ahem...if I could interrupt for a moment...

Please, no more PMs about my albums (which was my suggestion, lol ). I suppose it was as much a hollow begging to begin with, as I'm not the kind of person to sell something blindly to another person without being 100% sure of its fair market value. And the truth is, that I'm not going to take the time to revive one of two stored turntables, listen to each album, assess it's condition...and then present a list of what's what. It's too much hassle. I would consider selling them as "one lot", and someone would have to make an offer based on that. And that's about it. The collection is probably 90% 70's R&R (including prog rock, R&B, hard rock...think Yes, Zeppelin, Tull, Beatles, Floyd, Rush.. and a ton of others). It's been close to 20yrs since I've even spun one, and while all are playable, I know that many are scratched and crackle and pop a bit. Of course, that assessment may be overly general, as I was as anal about cleaning and caring for them as I was careless with them. I'm just not the kind of person who can sell something like this without there being an agreement (like...it'd be nice if you could hear it first...but I know, I know...). But thanks to those who have inquired, and I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

I now return you to your regular programming......

Aw, that's too bad. I would have been one of your takers. It's certainly your prerogative, of course.

I don't know where you live, but if you are in even a medium-sized city, there's a very good chance there is at least one used record store that is thriving in your area. Based upon my discussions with the owner of a local one here, apparently there are people who regularly sell their old records to such stores, some on a weekly basis. Often it's a matter of someone cleaning their closets or garage, or spouses issuing ultimatums, etc. The store owners are likely to be well positioned to assess the fair market value of the records, and will at least make you a reasonable offer in most cases, especially for records that are out of print and in demand (and who would know better than them?).

If you are not willing (and I can't say I blame you!) to take the time and effort to clean them up and sell them on eBay or something similar, and if you really are interested in converting them to cash rather than letting them continue to gather dust, I would respectfully suggest you investigate taking them to a nearby record store. You don't have to do it all in one trip. If you spread it out over several trips within a few months, you might net more than you would in one fell swoop. It's entirely up to you, of course, but that's my suggestion.
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post #105 of 156 Old 04-21-2011, 05:37 PM
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Aw, that's too bad. I would have been one of your takers. It's certainly your prerogative, of course.

I don't know where you live, but if you are in even a medium-sized city, there's a very good chance there is at least one used record store that is thriving in your area. Based upon my discussions with the owner of a local one here, apparently there are people who regularly sell their old records to such stores, some on a weekly basis. Often it's a matter of someone cleaning their closets or garage, or spouses issuing ultimatums, etc. The store owners are likely to be well positioned to assess the fair market value of the records, and will at least make you a reasonable offer in most cases, especially for records that are out of print and in demand (and who would know better than them?).

If you are not willing (and I can't say I blame you!) to take the time and effort to clean them up and sell them on eBay or something similar, and if you really are interested in converting them to cash rather than letting them continue to gather dust, I would respectfully suggest you investigate taking them to a nearby record store. You don't have to do it all in one trip. If you spread it out over several trips within a few months, you might net more than you would in one fell swoop. It's entirely up to you, of course, but that's my suggestion.

Will, thanks for that info. I'm aware of such stores (I'm in the Atlanta area, and I think there are a few stores that do this), but I guess I never gave it much thought. It may sound silly, but I'd rather accept an offer from a person (and in person) who might be getting the best of me on the deal, as long as we're both happy, you know what I mean? As I told one member via PM, I know of just one album (Captain Beyond) that a guy told me the 3D cover alone was worth maybe $50. And I probably have some more gems like that among all the ones I bought. Hell, I still have a box of 45's!

The truth is, these things are probably worth more than I think they are, but the bigger truth is that I would almost surely never Ebay them because of the hassle factor. I know people make great money doing it, but it's just not something I'm likely to do. I probably should make the effort to at least take a dozen or so and see what's what at one of these stores. I have a hard time letting go of a lot of stuff like this, but I know damn well that I'll end up croaking before I ever enjoy such things again, and that I should sell them so someone else can enjoy them. I already promised my old Marantz 2226B (HS graduation gift from my folks) to my oldest son, and I probably should think about selling the early 70's HH Scott receiver my father gave to me (He "gave away" his 60's Scott!...he didn't realize I wanted it back then!! And a Roberts reel-to-reel! Grrr!).

Again, thanks for the info. I really think I might do something about it, finally!
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post #106 of 156 Old 04-22-2011, 07:36 AM
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I didnt reply because I have been too busy to remember this discussion

I was never paddled with any vinyl, that was funny My first experience with audio was listening to Queen, News to the world on Vinyl. LOVED IT!!!! I still would have no problem with enjoying a great song or two played on that medium but it would drive me nuts having to move a needle, clean something, find the next song, etc seems like a HUGE amount of effort. I would also hate that I could not listen in any room in my house.

As for critical listening, what I say is that I never get caught up in worrying about any song being played on the ultimate setup. I can enjoy a great song on an Ipod as much as I do on my best system. Of course with everything being digital I have 100% choice where I play that song. Im not a guy to sit still and just listen, I simply do not sit still with music playing because music stirs creativity and Im at my best designing something when its on....that might be weird but its how I work. I listen to music when I build speakers and LOVE it. I listen to music when Im designing software.

Im a critical listener in the sense that I listen to understand what speakers and setups are doing. I listen and measure to learn what I can about what I build or buy.

Yes, you are right...Im consistent with my hatred of Vinyl but I never said it sounds like crap just most do because of the years of abuse. To me only OCD types go to great lengths to convince everyone Vinyl is superior and everything else sucks. Someone being OCD and having a great imagination makes for the most extreme audiophile

Pretty much as I remembered it. You are always a voice of reason and instantly saw that my post was not an insult at all. I wouldn't waste a second trying to convince anybody that vinyl is superior as it isn't. Just different. Still don't understand why my statements to that effect got me labeled as a "troll" by Krabby. But then, after reading his posts for many years it's not hard to understand at all.

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures ...
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post #107 of 156 Old 04-22-2011, 07:44 AM
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Will, thanks for that info. I'm aware of such stores (I'm in the Atlanta area, and I think there are a few stores that do this), but I guess I never gave it much thought. It may sound silly, but I'd rather accept an offer from a person (and in person) who might be getting the best of me on the deal, as long as we're both happy, you know what I mean? As I told one member via PM, I know of just one album (Captain Beyond) that a guy told me the 3D cover alone was worth maybe $50. And I probably have some more gems like that among all the ones I bought. Hell, I still have a box of 45's!

The truth is, these things are probably worth more than I think they are, but the bigger truth is that I would almost surely never Ebay them because of the hassle factor. I know people make great money doing it, but it's just not something I'm likely to do. I probably should make the effort to at least take a dozen or so and see what's what at one of these stores. I have a hard time letting go of a lot of stuff like this, but I know damn well that I'll end up croaking before I ever enjoy such things again, and that I should sell them so someone else can enjoy them. I already promised my old Marantz 2226B (HS graduation gift from my folks) to my oldest son, and I probably should think about selling the early 70's HH Scott receiver my father gave to me (He "gave away" his 60's Scott!...he didn't realize I wanted it back then!! And a Roberts reel-to-reel! Grrr!).

Again, thanks for the info. I really think I might do something about it, finally!

Actually, used LP's in anything other than NM condition aren't really worth much at all. There are exceptions in the case of a rare recording or date of release of a particular album. I also live in the Atlanta area and easily find albums at several spots here for a retail of a buck or less (and I don't mean Goodwill!) and they are always on sale as they are actually hard to sell. I tried to sell a vintage lot of about 50 rock albums on Ebay at a starting bid of $10 and received no bids. And I had Zep, Doors, The Band, and others equally as popular back in the day.

This all suggests that those that talk about the resurgence of vinyl may be exagerating just a bit and those that talk about its small following may not be wrong.

I'll always have it in my system but as I have said, its part emotional nostalgia as much as sound.

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post #108 of 156 Old 04-22-2011, 08:01 AM
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Actually, used LP's in anything other than NM condition aren't really worth much at all. There are exceptions in the case of a rare recording or date of release of a particular album. I also live in the Atlanta area and easily find albums at several spots here for a retail of a buck or less (and I don't mean Goodwill!) and they are always on sale as they are actually hard to sell. I tried to sell a vintage lot of about 50 rock albums on Ebay at a starting bid of $10 and received no bids. And I had Zep, Doors, The Band, and others equally as popular back in the day.

This all suggests that those that talk about the resurgence of vinyl may be exagerating just a bit and those that talk about its small following may not be wrong.

I'll always have it in my system but as I have said, its part emotional nostalgia as much as sound.

The plot twists, once again.... . It's been so long since I've even seen my collection (they're under a stairwell and covered by piles of junk my wife has stored in there too), but I just remembered that I used to have tabbed folder dividers with old "Dymo" labels on the tabs. LOL, they may even still be there, crushed under the garbage on top of them. You know, if just may be cooler to be able to pull them out and play them some day. If some day ever comes......
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post #109 of 156 Old 04-23-2011, 12:18 AM
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But, as John Fogerty once said, it never does.
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post #110 of 156 Old 04-23-2011, 06:00 AM
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But, as John Fogerty once said, it never does.

Man, we must be close to the same age, because I actually thought of that song when I typed that! And very few have probably even heard of it, let alone, heard it .
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post #111 of 156 Old 04-23-2011, 11:28 AM
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Man, we must be close to the same age, because I actually thought of that song when I typed that! And very few have probably even heard of it, let alone, heard it .

Hey, I even have the 45. I'd imagine probably half the people around this forum weren't even born when it was recorded.
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post #112 of 156 Old 04-23-2011, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dbx123 View Post

Man, we must be close to the same age, because I actually thought of that song when I typed that! And very few have probably even heard of it, let alone, heard it .

Hey now, some of us under 40 types have fairly decent 60s/70s record and CD/mp3 collections . I'm "only" 35 and own quite a number of 60s/70s psychedelic garage rock and progressive-folk albums that are probably obscure even to most people growing up in the era. You also have to remember that radio stations have been spinning CCR and the like for a good 20 years now on "classic rock" stations throughout the U.S.. So it ain't like none of us youngins have never heard their material before. Course, you're unlikely to hear something like "Someday Never Comes" on one of those stations. Seems like they've stuck to a pretty consistent, top 40-ish rotation ever since I can remember.
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post #113 of 156 Old 04-23-2011, 07:24 PM
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I bought my first lp about 1972. I had a decent size record collection when cd's came out. I had a long train ride to work every day so I got a portable cd player. My first cd's were Aja and I Robot. I got hooked on cd's pretty quickly. Brothers In Arms was my first cd that I never heard on vinyl. At that time I thought it was the best recording that I hade ever heard. I still have and play vinyl but in my experience I rarely hear anything on vinyl that is without clicks, pops or some kind of distortion.

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post #114 of 156 Old 04-23-2011, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by adrift View Post

Hey now, some of us under 40 types have fairly decent 60s/70s record and CD/mp3 collections .

...... Course, you're unlikely to hear something like "Someday Never Comes" on one of those stations. Seems like they've stuck to a pretty consistent, top 40-ish rotation ever since I can remember.

The latter was more my point; that beside age factor, that song hasn't probably gotten air play since the early 70's. And while I actually do often listen to your standard "classic rock" station when driving, I sure wish they'd realize that most classic artists recorded more than one or two songs . But........

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Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

I bought my first lp about 1972. I had a decent size record collection when cd's came out. I had a long train ride to work every day so I got a portable cd player. My first cd's were Aja and I Robot. I got hooked on cd's pretty quickly. Brothers In Arms was my first cd that I never heard on vinyl. At that time I thought it was the best recording that I hade ever heard. I still have and play vinyl but in my experience I rarely hear anything on vinyl that is without clicks, pops or some kind of distortion.

Wow, Aja and I Robot were great pics for your first CD's (from a production standpoint, as well as taste ). Lifelong SD fan here, and have much of Parson's material as well. My first CD purchase? I don't recall the number of discs, but it was over $800! . I couldn't stand seeing my friends 4 and 7 disc "collections", so I decided to replace a huge chunk of my albums at one time. I was selling audio equip at the time, and I had an employees discount that was "doubled" for some occasion, so I took advantage of it. Funny ending for you; my wife busted me with these discs in my car trunk and asked, "Why did you buy all these discs, we don't even have a CD player!" And we didn't...yet
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post #115 of 156 Old 04-24-2011, 08:07 PM
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By Yuri Kageyama
(Associated Press) -- TOKYO -- As a young man, aspiring opera singer Norio Ohga wrote to Sony to complain about the quality of its tape recorders. That move changed the course of his life, as the company promptly recruited the man whose love of music would shape the development of the compact disc and transform the Japanese electronics maker into a global software and entertainment empire.
Sony's president and chairman from 1982 to 1995, Ohga died Saturday in Tokyo of multiple organ failure, the company said. He was 81.
Ohga's connection to music steered his work. The flamboyant music connoisseur insisted the CD be designed at 12 centimetres (4.8 inches) in diameter to hold 75 minutes worth of music -- in order to store Beethoven's Ninth Symphony in its entirety.
From the start, Ohga recognized the potential of the CD's superior sound quality. In the 1970s, when Ohga insisted CDs would eventually replace record albums, skeptics scoffed. Herbert von Karajan, Stevie Wonder and Herbie Hancock spoke up in defence of Sony's digital sound.
Sony sold the world's first CD in 1982 and CDs overtook LP record sales in Japan five years later. The specifications are still used today and fostered the devices developed since.
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post #116 of 156 Old 04-26-2011, 01:19 PM
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Pretty much as I remembered it. You are always a voice of reason and instantly saw that my post was not an insult at all. I wouldn't waste a second trying to convince anybody that vinyl is superior as it isn't. Just different. Still don't understand why my statements to that effect got me labeled as a "troll" by Krabby. But then, after reading his posts for many years it's not hard to understand at all.

Your statements 'to that effect' , and my response, are still visible on this thread, you know; any reader can easily compare them with your summary above.

It seems quixotic of you to try to rewrite history under those circumstances. But tilt on, if you must!
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post #117 of 156 Old 01-16-2012, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by HelloCDClub View Post

I believe that in a situation where a CD and a record have the same mastering, the CD will sound better. This, however, never happens. And the vinyl usually comes out on top, even in blind ABX tests. Especially stuff from the mid-90s. The reason Smashing Pumpkins' "Mellon Collie and the Indinate Sadness" is harder to find than the holy grail? Because it blows the CD out of the water. Also, it was pressed in extremely limited quantities. But that's beside the point .

That some prefer the coloration or just the routine of playing a vinyl is one thing. To state that it sound better (close to the master), is another.
The fact is, that most of the vinyl released in the past 20 years are from CD and the same CD master as the retail CD. The "Mellon collie" tripple LP is from the same master as the CD and didn't sound anything better, just worse with the coloration from the vinyl. So I sold my copy.

Sound and video is not magic, it is pure physics. Physics that can be magical
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post #118 of 156 Old 01-17-2012, 06:01 AM
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Interesting reading this thread.....as I have just added a turntable to my setup. I dug out all of my old albums. Started buying them in the early 60's. Had all of the Beach Boys, Jan and Dean stuff. Still like that music very much.

Have been able to play some of the music from the original release albums and compare to cd. Both sound good to me, although the vinyl has had a lot of use. Can't say vinyl is better or worse, just different. I'm finding that just the process of playing a record to be enjoyable. My wife and I are of an age when "playing records" was what one did for fun.

Probably won't wear out any of these records but it has been fun and something I will always enjoy.
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post #119 of 156 Old 01-17-2012, 08:48 AM
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Well, I started out reading the posts in order, but seriously after the first two pages degraded into blah, blah, blah, I jumped to the back to put in my 2%.

Everything has it time and place. I have about 50 or so records and about 500 CD's with about 100 cassette tapes that never quite made the transfer.

I listen to them all, depending on my mood. Sometimes, I really want to listen to my old AC/DC Dirty Deeds... LP, I love the sound, with the hiss and pops and all, it's part of the experience.

However, when I have a party, I load my 200 CD changer with as much different genres of music possible and hit random. Then there are the times, when I really want to listen to that mix tape I made at 15, it has some really horrible bands and the SQ is the pits, but Ohh what fun!

With that said, there are ways to do side by side comparisons.

When lamb of god came out with Wrath, BestBuyz had a promo that included the LP,CD, and a USB flash drive with bonus tracks and all the samples from the album. There is a sound difference between the CD and LP, but both have their place.

Also, when I got a BB gift card for X-mas, I got some CD's, probably the first time I got a CD since the last gift card, last X-mas, but hey, it is what it is.

The future is all digital, a la iTunes, or Amazon.

The past is analog.

BUT, all because it's the past, does not mean, that is not good, or not desired.
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post #120 of 156 Old 01-17-2012, 09:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by HelloCDClub View Post

Of course, there's a resolution difference. Vinyl is virtually unlimited as far as bit depth and sample rate go, while Cd is stuck at a rather low 16/44.1.

Vinyl's alleged unlimited resolution is pPerhaps intuitively clear to some, but actually completely false.

Vinyl's resolution is limited by noise and distortion, which many of us are always aware of when we listen to vinyl. Vinyl's resolution is limited to no more than the equivalent of 12 bits. The noise and distortion that is inherent in 16 bits is inaudible for all practical purposes.

Vinyl's bandwidth is limited by the geometry of the styluses that are used to cut the masters and play them back. The first problem is that cutting styli are never the same geometry as playback styli, so there is considerable inherent distortion due to the mismatch, particularly at high frequencies.

While frequencies on the order of 40 KHz can be cut and played back from vinyl, frequencies that high are subject to large amounts of geometric distortion and are also physically fragile. This contrasts with the CD format which is limited to 22 KHz but can handle full amplitude signals at that frequency and with vanishing amounts of distortion.

Vinyl recordings are constantly degrading, both measurably and audibly as they are played back again and again due to surface and stylus wear.

There are additional geometric distortions associated with vinyl playback, some of which can be addressed by straight line tracking tone arms, and some that can't be helped.
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