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post #1 of 288 Old 07-23-2011, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I never would have thought that building a couple of subwoofer risers could have such a dramatic effect. I'm pretty stunned actually.

I had put off making a couple of these because a lot of my friends were saying that because my Subs rested on basement concrete with thick carpet over top I probably wouldn't notice much of a difference.
Then I began reading about vertical modes and decided to try it anyway.

Heres what I had before,



As it was I thought it sounded great! I had a really good thump from the subs in this config. Great tactile feel.

Then I built my risers and I also raised the center to match tweeter height with my mains.

Now it looks like this:



What a difference! I should have done this long ago.

At first, I thought something was really wrong. I lost that tactile thud I was used too. Almost as if I lost the LFE altogether.

But then, I watched a few Blurays that I had seen before on the old config and it really became clear, It was my old setup that was hosed.
I heard low Hz notes and detail in the LFE I had never heard before.
The LFE seemed to emanate from my chest instead of my walls....lol

Just amazing what 20 bucks and an hour of labour did to my HT. I'm still scratching my head over the complete change in sound (for the better) ..

For all those who have concrete under their subs I suggest you try it if you haven't.
Its not about decoupling, but rather addressing those vertical modes.


Test,

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post #2 of 288 Old 07-23-2011, 03:51 PM
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Thanks for sharing that ... how do I build your risers for 20 bucks?
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post #3 of 288 Old 07-23-2011, 03:58 PM
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test4echo101 - It is my understanding that the best way to deal with vertical room modes is to place a sub above the center line of the room, ala Geddes.

Can you link me to some of your reading so I might broaden my understanding? Thank you.

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post #4 of 288 Old 07-23-2011, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_AG View Post

Thanks for sharing that ... how do I build your risers for 20 bucks?

Hey John,

All I did was use some MDF I had lying around for the platforms.
I used 2x4's as support under the MDF.
I went out and bought cell-less foam and layered it about 5 inches deep under the platform. Then I placed regular foam (from a chair) to fill the rest of the space under the platform.
I attached inch thick rubber squares to the 2x4's bottom to act as feet. (I don't think I really needed it, as my concrete floor is plenty for decoupling)

Its pretty much about raising the sub in my situation, not decoupling.

I could have probably just placed 6"-10" legs on the sub and got the same results.

It works. Thats all i can say.

Test,

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post #5 of 288 Old 07-23-2011, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

test4echo101 - It is my understanding that the best way to deal with vertical room modes is to place a sub above the center line of the room, ala Geddes.

Can you link me to some of your reading so I might broaden my understanding? Thank you.

tesseract67,

Yea, your right. If I had made the riser about 2 feet high ( With an 8 foot ceiling) I may have got even better results but the WAF factor plays a part here for me....lol

If you google DIY Subwoofer risers it will take you to a link that provides all the info about vertical modes and the fact this works.....even on concrete.
Look for Daddy.

Test,
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post #6 of 288 Old 07-23-2011, 07:04 PM
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I see a lot of setups that have killer speakers but don't look very nice.

Your setup looks very nice. Kudos.
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post #7 of 288 Old 07-24-2011, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post

I see a lot of setups that have killer speakers but don't look very nice.

Your setup looks very nice. Kudos.

Thanks fxspec06,

Its a little messy and the wife just can't help but put crap on top of my speakers...no matter how many times i take them off!
I just tell her the stuff must have vibrated off....lol

My speakers are pretty old, Paradigm 7SE MK 3's and a CC-350 (with a titanium tweet instead of textile.) Its doesn't match. I'd rather have a CC-300 but those are hard to find round here so....I deal wit it. Not as bad as you'd think.

The subs are just matching klipsch Sub-12's. But they actually do wonders in this new config.

I'm thinking about adding legs and raising them even more to experiment.

It makes sense, there is sooo much importance placed on horizontal sub placement in a room but not so much in the vertical. I would say they are both just as important.

One interesting thing, The center that I raised does NOT seem to like that riser that i built for it.
I noticed it now sounds hollowish and boxy. Not sure if its because of the space below it or not.
Especially with male voices. Not sure how I'm going to deal with that.
I like the center raised, but not at the expense of dialog quality.

Test,

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post #8 of 288 Old 07-25-2011, 11:08 AM
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lol, my wife put her netbook on my Monitor Audio RSw12 sub. Didn't stay there long...

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post #9 of 288 Old 07-25-2011, 11:43 AM
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My gosh, i just came to this forum to start a thread about this EXACT same thing. I have 2 HSU ULS-15s for about a year now and i just added the Auralex sub dudes on Saturday and here was my impressions



i was in shock at the difference made. All the mids and highs cleared up also and now the bass is tighter and punchier.
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post #10 of 288 Old 07-25-2011, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

My gosh, i just came to this forum to start a thread about this EXACT same thing. I have 2 HSU ULS-15s for about a year now and i just added the Auralex sub dudes on Saturday and here was my impressions



i was in shock at the difference made. All the mids and highs cleared up also and now the bass is tighter and punchier.

Aside from removing some mechanical vibration, I've never heard/read testimony as to Sub-dudes having any such value as you state here. In fact, any "raised platform" additions have the same, ambiguous reviews regarding their value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

Hearing is believing....WOW!

A lot of times, "Anticipating is believing" . Don't get me wrong, and I am not trying to rain on your parade. However, for the sake of every Tom, Dick and Harry that might read your thread, they should research the subject a bit more. What you did here, usually won't lead to an audible sound difference. At least, not from everything I've read and experienced. I wonder if you guys are finding that you had some "ear level" room acoustics...and/or that your subs are set well above 80hz, the general point at which sound becomes non-directional. IOW< that perhaps your 80hz to say, 120hz...is what/why you're hearing this "significant improvement? Again, I'm writing this with no ill intent. If you really want to make a statement regarding this? Get someone to blindfold you in your seated area, and then have them change platform vs non-platform over and over and get your opinion. I think you might be more surprised at the results than you could ever imagine. But who knows? But this is the way to find real vs perceived differences (DBT).
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post #11 of 288 Old 07-25-2011, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post

lol, my wife put her netbook on my Monitor Audio RSw12 sub. Didn't stay there long...

I LOL'd IRL
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post #12 of 288 Old 07-25-2011, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

I never would have thought that building a couple of subwoofer risers could have such a dramatic effect. I'm pretty stunned actually.

So am I. What are your subs and how high is your ceiling?
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post #13 of 288 Old 07-25-2011, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbx123 View Post

I've never heard/read testimony as to Sub-dudes having any such value as you state here.

They sound good to me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbHZh4EXBtU
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post #14 of 288 Old 07-25-2011, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post

lol, my wife put her netbook on my Monitor Audio RSw12 sub. Didn't stay there long...

+1, yup they just can't help themselves. I tell my wife that's sacred ground but she persists anyway......When something falls off and breaks I think, "Thank the Lord its gone!".

Then she comes home from somewhere and says, "Honey you'll never guess what I found! It will look great downstairs! (Meaning somewhere on my speakers)....lol
I love her anyways.

I will gladly put up with trinkets if it means "Upgrades" in the future.

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post #15 of 288 Old 07-25-2011, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

They sound good to me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbHZh4EXBtU

I stand corrected! The Subdudes rock! (are you sure that one guy ain't Dr. House? )

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post #16 of 288 Old 07-25-2011, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbx123 View Post

Aside from removing some mechanical vibration, I've never heard/read testimony as to Sub-dudes having any such value as you state here. In fact, any "raised platform" additions have the same, ambiguous reviews regarding their value.

I would agree, the subdudes don't raise the subs high enough to address vertical axial modes.

However,
I'm sure you've heard of the benefits of raising a sub off ANY floor to compensate for vertical axial modes?

Of course, you probably ARE aware of the importance for the horizontal placement of a subwoofer right?
Its one of the first pieces of advice everyone gives when it comes to subwoofer placement.
Why not vertical?

See this quote from Big Daddy who I think is a very respected member of our community.

" Personally, I think decoupling from the floor is over-rated. Raising the subwoofer and dealing with vertical axial mode is far more important."

Read a bit of his technical posts and you'll see raising a sub off the floor is a good thing.

As for ambiguous reviews I don't know what to say, except look harder. There are very smart people who have placed the vertical axial position as just as important as the horizontal axial position.

I admit, a few inches may not yield many benefits, but 6 inches to 2 feet definitely does make an audible difference for the better.

As I said, I have thick carpet over concrete. Mechanical vibrations have never been an issue for me.
When I built then tested my subs on risers the change was NOT a placebo effect. The change in LFE was dramatic. It was a "holy cow, never heard that before moment"
Granted, I don't have REW waterfalls to prove it, but I DO know the characteristics of my room and my old setup from hearing alone. The difference was not slight. It was a shocking difference.

Doesn't cost anything really to check this for yourself. Put your subs UP on a platform for a while. report back.

Test,

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post #17 of 288 Old 07-25-2011, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

I would agree, the subdudes don't raise the subs high enough to address vertical axial modes.

However,
I'm sure you've heard of the benefits of raising a sub off ANY floor to compensate for vertical axial modes?

No, I won't front on you...I have not heard and am not familiar with that term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

Of course, you probably ARE aware of the importance for the horizontal placement of a subwoofer right?

Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

See this quote from Big Daddy who I think is a very respected member of our community.

" Personally, I think decoupling from the floor is over-rated. Raising the subwoofer and dealing with vertical axial mode is far more important."

You may have misquoted it..or maybe I just don't understand it, but literal translation would mean (to me): He just contradicted himself. If de-coupling off the floor is overrated...", Doesn't this mean, "lifting off the floor" is overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

As for ambiguous reviews I don't know what to say, except look harder. There are very smart people who have placed the vertical axial position as just as important as the horizontal axial position.

I admit, a few inches may not yield many benefits, but 6 inches to 2 feet definitely does make an audible difference for the better.

As I said, I have thick carpet over concrete. Mechanical vibrations have never been an issue for me.
When I built then tested my subs on risers the change was NOT a placebo effect. The change in LFE was dramatic. It was a "holy cow, never heard that before moment"
Granted, I don't have REW waterfalls to prove it, but I DO know the characteristics of my room and my old setup from hearing alone. The difference was not slight. It was a shocking difference.

Doesn't cost anything really to check this for yourself. Put your subs UP on a platform for a while. report back.

Test,

As I said....all the above is fine, but the one, simple item you overlooked was my suggestion that you perform a DBT. Once again, I have no dog in this fight. I'm not advocating any position here. I'm simply pointing out that your supposition here is nothing more than subjective, anecdotal conjecture. Fair summation, or not? Keep in mind, we just had a member tell us what a "world of difference he could tell from soldered vs crimped" wire. Just sayin'.........
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post #18 of 288 Old 07-25-2011, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbx123 View Post

No, I won't front on you...I have not heard and am not familiar with that term.

Ok cool no sweat. Here is a link that explains it better than I ever could.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers/...er-risers.html

I'm not saying Big Daddy is the be all end all but I do know his contributions to our community have been pretty significant. I tend to listen when he speaks...lol

Quote:


You may have misquoted it..or maybe I just don't understand it, but literal translation would mean (to me): He just contradicted himself. If de-coupling off the floor is overrated...", Doesn't this mean, "lifting off the floor" is overrated?

No, that was a direct copy/paste quote.
There is a difference between DE-Coupling and addressing the vertical axial mode.
De-coupling addresses vibration and resonance issues for those who have subs on wood, laminate, flimsy floors.
The subdudes CAN help this issue. For sure.
The subdues do NOT address the issue of vertical axial modes.
They do not raise the sub enough on their own to solve that issue.





Quote:


As I said....all the above is fine, but the one, simple item you overlooked was my suggestion that you perform a DBT. Once again, I have no dog in this fight. I'm not advocating any position here. I'm simply pointing out that your supposition here is nothing more than subjective, anecdotal conjecture. Fair summation, or not? Keep in mind, we just had a member tell us what a "world of difference he could tell from soldered vs crimped" wire. Just sayin'.........

I hear yea and I'm glad your skeptical.
All I can say is take 20 minutes of your time, put your subs UP , and listen for a while.

Test,

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post #19 of 288 Old 07-25-2011, 05:33 PM
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best thing to do here is take some readings at exact listening positions where you think is sounds a lot better, with and without the risers...then the proof will be in the pudding...

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post #20 of 288 Old 07-26-2011, 03:25 AM
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Exactly.. hearing may be 'believing' but 'believing' is not always reflective of what's really happening.
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post #21 of 288 Old 07-26-2011, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

I would agree, the subdudes don't raise the subs high enough to address vertical axial modes.

and how high does one need to raise them to be "high enough to address vertical axial modes"? it looks to me like you've raised your sub 6"? hardly a dent in relation to the ceiling height which i presume is a minimum of 8'.


Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

I'm sure you've heard of the benefits of raising a sub off ANY floor to compensate for vertical axial modes?

so what is your recommendation on finding the ideal height to "compensate for vertical axial modes", so the rest of the community can repeat in their own room?


Quote:


Personally, I think decoupling from the floor is over-rated. Raising the subwoofer and dealing with vertical axial mode is far more important.

who in their right mind would say one is more important than the other? that doesn't make any sense. both solutions address different problems. why would you insist one needs to evaluate one as being "more important" than the other?

Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

I admit, a few inches may not yield many benefits, but 6 inches to 2 feet definitely does make an audible difference for the better.

not dismissing your claims, but unless you provide measurements then this subjective commentary does little for the community. modal issues are very complex. you may find that by raising the sub to the position you're in now added benefit in one range but may have caused new issues in another.

threads like this don't really add anything unless measurements have been taken. optimal placement is key, but every room is different and as such, one needs to measure, change position, and measure again continuously to find the optimal response (position) in their room. how do you know your current height is optimal? how do you know 3ft off the ground would not provide an even better response? measurements would speak a thousand words...



Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

As I said, I have thick carpet over concrete. Mechanical vibrations have never been an issue for me.

that doesn't mean they are not issues for other people. just because you do not experience the fundamental issue does not mean that de-coupling is "over-rated", as you say above. your attempt to push one solution over another (even though they both address entirely different problems to begin with) is misleading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

When I built then tested my subs on risers the change was NOT a placebo effect. The change in LFE was dramatic. It was a "holy cow, never heard that before moment"
Granted, I don't have REW waterfalls to prove it,

i dont think anyone here is telling you the response *hasn't* changed. the issue would be cleared up quick and you could save your breath just by providing measurements. it would solve a lot of issues and let the data speak for themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

but I DO know the characteristics of my room and my old setup from hearing alone. The difference was not slight. It was a shocking difference.

and while you may hear an improvement in one area, you may be biased or ignoring a new issue created in another area of the LF spectrum.
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post #22 of 288 Old 07-26-2011, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by localhost127 View Post

and how high does one need to raise them to be "high enough to address vertical axial modes"? it looks to me like you've raised your sub 6"? hardly a dent in relation to the ceiling height which i presume is a minimum of 8'.




so what is your recommendation on finding the ideal height to "compensate for vertical axial modes", so the rest of the community can repeat in their own room?




who in their right mind would say one is more important than the other? that doesn't make any sense. both solutions address different problems. why would you insist one needs to evaluate one as being "more important" than the other?



not dismissing your claims, but unless you provide measurements then this subjective commentary does little for the community. modal issues are very complex. you may find that by raising the sub to the position you're in now added benefit in one range but may have caused new issues in another.

threads like this don't really add anything unless measurements have been taken. optimal placement is key, but every room is different and as such, one needs to measure, change position, and measure again continuously to find the optimal response (position) in their room. how do you know your current height is optimal? how do you know 3ft off the ground would not provide an even better response? measurements would speak a thousand words...





that doesn't mean they are not issues for other people. just because you do not experience the fundamental issue does not mean that de-coupling is "over-rated", as you say above. your attempt to push one solution over another (even though they both address entirely different problems to begin with) is misleading.



i dont think anyone here is telling you the response *hasn't* changed. the issue would be cleared up quick and you could save your breath just by providing measurements. it would solve a lot of issues and let the data speak for themselves.



and while you may hear an improvement in one area, you may be biased or ignoring a new issue created in another area of the LF spectrum.


localhost127,


I just copied the idea. I didn't come up with it.

I'll try again....
Please read the first 3 or 4 posts by Big Daddy:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers/...er-risers.html

If you want to skip right to the explanation go Here:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers/...ml#post1377375

Once you read it, then maybe we can discuss whether Big Daddy is wrong or right.

The only measurements I have taken are with my spl meter before and then after placing them on risers.

With my subs on the floor each sub was calibrated individually to 75-76Db.
Both subs turned on the meter read 82db. This was corrected so that with both subs on the meter reads 75-76db.

Once I placed the subs on the risers in the exact same spot, the meter read between 88-90DB.

It was louder of course, but it was more than that.
I turned the subs down so that the meter read 75db while on the risers.

I'm having a hard time describing why it sounds so different.
The lfe is more detailed and punchy.
The subs really seem to have disappeared completely as well.
Before I could tell the subs were at the front the room. Not really localized, but a general direction could be detected.
Now I close my eyes and I can't tell where the subs are at all.
I wish i could prove it with my own measurements but I can't. I don't have the skills nor the equipment needed to take the kind of measurements you guys want.

Maybe I am "hearing placebo effects" but I seriously doubt that. I wasn't expecting ANY improvement at all when I started this.
( I was under the assumption that De-coupling was the ONLY reason why people saw benefits...I never had that issue because my basement concrete and carpet was plenty...My floors and wall have never really vibrated to a noticeable extent.)
It was only after I read up about vertical axial modes that I decided to try it.


I guess, the only way we can solve this is too have a few people who have REW and the skills to try this and report back.


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post #23 of 288 Old 07-26-2011, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

If you want to skip right to the explanation go Here:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers/...ml#post1377375

Once you read it, then maybe we can discuss whether Big Daddy is wrong or right.

He's incorrect. The lowest frequency vertical mode in a room is half way up and for an 8' ceiling, that's 71Hz or so. I plotted modes using the Harman calculator and 500' w and d to keep them out of range. As you can see (in the attachment), moving your sub's acoustic centre from within 2" or so of the floor to 7" or so will at best bring you close(r) to the node at 283Hz, well outside the sub's operating bandwidth. Your Klipsch sub even has a 24dB/oct low pass at 120Hz max so it's ouptu will be 30dB down there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

The only measurements I have taken are with my spl meter before and then after placing them on risers.

With my subs on the floor each sub was calibrated individually to 75-76Db.
Both subs turned on the meter read 82db. This was corrected so that with both subs on the meter reads 75-76db.

Once I placed the subs on the risers in the exact same spot, the meter read between 88-90DB.

It was louder of course, but it was more than that.
I turned the subs down so that the meter read 75db while on the risers.

This and the measurements DB supposedly took at the end of post 1 in that link giving 10dB difference are bogus. If all it took to get a 6-10dB difference in output was to raise the sub a few ", there would be references, measurements and risers from OE and aftermarket manufcturers all over the place. But there aren't simply because the physics does not support it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

I'm having a hard time describing why it sounds so different.

I'm not, it's called wishful thinking.
LL
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post #24 of 288 Old 07-26-2011, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

I just copied the idea. I didn't come up with it.

doesn't matter - im still pointing out issues with your methods and presentation to the forum.



Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

Once you read it, then maybe we can discuss whether Big Daddy is wrong or right.

im not here to discuss whether it is "wrong or right".

Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

The only measurements I have taken are with my spl meter before and then after placing them on risers.

With my subs on the floor each sub was calibrated individually to 75-76Db.
Both subs turned on the meter read 82db. This was corrected so that with both subs on the meter reads 75-76db.

Once I placed the subs on the risers in the exact same spot, the meter read between 88-90DB.

It was louder of course, but it was more than that.
I turned the subs down so that the meter read 75db while on the risers.

this is not the proper way to 'measure'


Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

I'm having a hard time describing why it sounds so different.
The lfe is more detailed and punchy.
The subs really seem to have disappeared completely as well.
Before I could tell the subs were at the front the room. Not really localized, but a general direction could be detected.
Now I close my eyes and I can't tell where the subs are at all.
I wish i could prove it with my own measurements but I can't. I don't have the skills nor the equipment needed to take the kind of measurements you guys want.

no one is debating that the response hasn't changed. that's not the issue here. go back and re-read my original post.



Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

I guess, the only way we can solve this is too have a few people who have REW and the skills to try this and report back.


you don't need skills to use REW. it's fairly straight-forward.
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post #25 of 288 Old 07-27-2011, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

Maybe I am "hearing placebo effects" but I seriously doubt that. I wasn't expecting ANY improvement at all when I started this.

If I had a nickle for every time I've read the above or a close paraphrase of it!

Admittedly, the topic is usually some magic amplifier, DAC or cables. But, it is the kind of statement that if it is invalid for those, then it is invalid for everything!

Your statement that you expected no improvement is belied by the effort you put forth to implement it.

The cliché that audiophiles seem to perceive any change as an improvement is unfortunately real.

You are getting good advice about how to do it *right*. Don't let pride and defensiveness get in the way of true and genuine improvements!
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post #26 of 288 Old 07-27-2011, 04:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

This was corrected so that with both subs on the meter reads 75-76db.

Once I placed the subs on the risers in the exact same spot, the meter read between 88-90DB.

That is a really bad sign. It tells us that you are unwittingly making large changes to your system and/or position of mic, completely unrelated to simply raising your subwoofers 6 inches vertically. Raising them could conceivably alter the response, but magnitudes lower than that huge difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post

It was louder of course, but it was more than that.
I turned the subs down so that the meter read 75db while on the risers.

Which means your experiment, already hopelessly flawed by subconscious biases and expectations, is now completely useless due to making unnecessary changes to variables other than simply raising the subs 6 inches. You should not have had to touch the volume, but you did.

Simple questions. What model is that HK/does it have EZset? What computer are you using to post/does it have a soundcard with mic input?

cheers,

AJ
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post #27 of 288 Old 07-27-2011, 06:32 AM
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Subjective statements are important to have - its what people can easily relate to, but also need the objective (hard fact based data) to give credence to them and back them up.
For acoustics, SPL via RadioShack/other meter is not detailed enough, we don't know what freq are involved with just spl.

Entry price for using REW is in the low $200's for hardward;MIC, cables, boom stand, etc.
There is a learning curve, not difficult and avg joe people - like me - have done it.
Lot's of people won't spend that coin on a "use it a few times" and then get dusty hardware stuff.

Seems if another avs'er is nearby you and REW savy - and willing - that would be best.

edit:
...you have a RadioShack spl, REW can work with that and generic cal file will suffice to show changes from your original set-up to "elevated" set-up.

edit2:
I registered at blu-ray forums years ago....never posted there.....and just today trying the link above I get this message upon login there:
Quote:


You have been banned for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

Date the ban will be lifted: Never

someone must have spammed my in-active account there.
I was going to ask in that forum for some freq response plots to show the before/after.
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post #28 of 288 Old 07-27-2011, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok guys....lol

I hear yea.
I'm not being defensive. I get what your all saying.
I need proof. I will see if I can get my hands on an older spl meter with outputs. Mine doesn't have any.

I posted in the blu ray forums to ask for some clarification and maybe some measurements others already have performed.

It could be that what I'm hearing is related to something besides vertical axial modes. I dunno.

I spent all last night placing my subs from floor to risers then back again and again , watching the same scenes over and over. I made sure my subs did not move left,right or front to back. I didn't want the horizontal position to effect the subs.
After all that I still stand by my ears in that my subs DO sound better on the risers.

The reason? Now I don't know...
I thought it was because I raised them, maybe not.

Thanks for all your input.

Mpray1983- "User error due to sneeze or fart occurred during measurement"
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post #29 of 288 Old 07-27-2011, 08:08 AM
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I re-registered @ blu-ray forum as "mtbdudex2", got approved, etc.

I posted in the 88 page thread, asking bigdaddy to point me to a post where there is some freq plots, etc.

My post was not shown, then I got "kicked out"......guess bigdaddy does not like people simply asking for fact based data.....
I'm not a spammer, nor a rebel rouser, just a avg guy sharing.....

test4echo101 - I saw your post there
http://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers/...ml#post5008476
Quote:


Hi everyone,

Like all of you, I built riser's for my 2 subs.
My subs reside over basement concrete and thick carpet.
So, I didn't build them for DE-coupling issues. I built them to address vertical room modes.
No knowing much about the technical details I relied on my ears to tell me if a difference was heard. (Never admit in a forum you used you ears to decern a difference....lol)

Well, to me it made a significant difference for the better. Placebo? Maybe, but placing them on the floor, then moving back to risers, then back...lol I can hear and notice quite easily a difference. Why? I don't know.

So, i posted my experience in another forum to get some feedback and ask other's to try as well.

I am getting hammered. Basically they say I'm hearing things (maybe I am) and that Big Daddy's posts on vertical modes are wrong.
As an example, one poster said this:

Quote:


He's incorrect. The lowest frequency vertical mode in a room is half way up and for an 8' ceiling, that's 71Hz or so. I plotted modes using the Harman calculator and 500' w and d to keep them out of range. As you can see (in the attachment), moving your sub's acoustic centre from within 2" or so of the floor to 7" or so will at best bring you close(r) to the node at 283Hz, well outside the sub's operating bandwidth. Your Klipsch sub even has a 24dB/oct low pass at 120Hz max so it's ouptu will be 30dB down there.

I'm not trying to stir up anything but I cannot answer those questions.
They all want REW measurements, graphs....So instead of raising their subs and trying it out for themselves they want me to spend $200 bucks on equipment to measure the differences.

Besides the de-coupling aspect, how do you prove vertical axial modes can be addressed by using risers and then produce tangible data to show those who are basically saying its bogus that "something" is happening.
Or, Is it just a fairy tale?

Thanks,

I wonder if bigdaddy will respond or that will get deleted....

test4echo101 - we are all in this together, trying to get the best "sound" from our gear.
Some peoples posts may seem "hard" on you.....hopefully that is not the intent.
peace.
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post #30 of 288 Old 07-27-2011, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

I re-registered @ blu-ray forum as "mtbdudex2", got approved, etc.

I posted in the 88 page thread, asking bigdaddy to point me to a post where there is some freq plots, etc.

My post was not shown, then I got "kicked out"......guess bigdaddy does not like people simply asking for fact based data.....
I'm not a spammer, nor a rebel rouser, just a avg guy sharing.....

test4echo101 - I saw your post there
http://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers/...ml#post5008476


I wonder if bigdaddy will respond or that will get deleted....

test4echo101 - we are all in this together, trying to get the best "sound" from our gear.
Some peoples posts may seem "hard" on you.....hopefully that is not the intent.
peace.

Hey I appreciate all the posts.

To show how much I don't know, I can say I was surprised at the response here. I thought everyone was going to say, "Test didn't you know that risers are a good thing?" Lmao.
I honestly thought i was late to the riser party...lol

Oh well live and learn.

I hope Big Daddy responds. That's a pretty long thread on risers and after reading all those pages they had me convinced and so I tried it.
You know the rest....lol


*Edited to add at least one graph I found regarding measurements* Critique away!
Please read a couple of posts down as well.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers/...ml#post2990317

BTW, That was my first post ever on that forum. I have always been here and appreciated the knowledge here. However, that was the place where this idea originated for ME. So I figure best to ask there.

I know I skipped over answering some of your posts guys, but that's only because I don't have an answer for you.
I can answer that I don't use the EZset/EQ pile of crap. I do all my leveling,distance, crossovers manually.
All speakers at 80Hz and the subs crossover disabled. The AVR handles that.
I use my spl meter, a tape measure and a laser level to get my speakers directed twords my main listening position.


Test,

Mpray1983- "User error due to sneeze or fart occurred during measurement"
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