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Old 08-07-2011, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Long post thanks for reading ahead of time. I need a lot of help!

I am in the process of setting up a projector-Home theater setup along with a whole home audio option.

Ideas so far:

Home Theater
-ONKYO TX-NR609 Receiver (709-809 if needed or recommended for situation)
-2 Polk Monitor 70's (to start with)~~Monitor 40's, center and additional sub later depending on what my end total ends up being.
-Optoma HD20 (as a start may get something else if you have ideas) Looking at maybe getting a better projector over the additional speakers haven't decided yet.
-Screen(not sure ideas?)

Whole Home Audio
-Sonos? (1 per room, 4 rooms, living, kitchen/family, 6 total)
-In-ceiling Polk or other speakers. (1 per room x 4 rooms, 2 in halls, 2 in Living room, 2 kitchen/family, 10 total speakers) should be enough.

Controlled with an ipad2/ computer for sonos probably or running all the speakers from the receiver with audio coming from computer/server not sure yet. Looking more towards the speakers other then Sonos since it will probably be cheaper not sure yet. Will most likely be all mono since there will only be one speaker for most rooms unless there are some speakers like the sonos that simulate full sound. music just for family events, cleaning, etc. doesn't have to be like full surround sound in every room.

I don't believe all the speakers will run off 609-809 alone will probably need some mixer/amp or something additional to run all the additional speakers. But if possible or required it would be nice to run everything from the receiver/computer or i don't know this is my first time doing this.

I know this is a lot. I'm going to start with the Whole Home audio first but would like to make sure that i don't run into issues or have to upgrade my receiver or something later down the road in a year or after i get my home audio finished because i didn't think ahead or ask someone.

Any and all Ideas are welcome if you think i will get a better experience or bang for my buck going another option, speakers, proector, reciever, etc....
If possible can you post links or at least the model numbers of your suggestions and not just get a Yamaha receiver or Denon forget the ONKYO. So i know what to get.

Thanks again....
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:56 PM
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Would it be reasonable to just go with AppleTV/Airport Express in each room, mated with an amplifier (T-Amp or something) to drive the speakers; you'd still have iPhone/iPad control, you'd just stream the media independently per room, as opposed to having everything "linked".

Going from the receiver, you'll get the same signal in every room, and you shouldn't need Sonos at all - just take the multi-zone output into an appropriate power amplifier configuration for your speakers (so figure two to four speakers per power amplifier, in stereo or mono), and then add volume controls for each area between the amplifier and speakers. The downside is whatever the receiver puts out is what you get, everywhere, and the receiver won't convert digital inputs to analog for multi-zone.

Going with the AppleTV/Airport route (or a full Sonos system, or whatever equivalent from WD/Viewsonic/etc (which will probably cost you the iPad)) allows each area to tune its own sources, assuming your media is based on a network accessible device (NAS, computer, etc). AM/FM can be accomplished by just having a stereo receiver in-place of a T-Amp or whatever (will cost somewhat more, be somewhat larger).

Look at the AudioSource and Onkyo stereo amplifiers, Dayton and Lepai T-Amps, Sony STR-DH100 receiver, and Sherwood's various stereo receivers (they have a number of different models within the same price range). As well as AppleTV/Airport Express, and the non-Apple (and therefore non-Airplay) WD TV Live and the Viewsonic and Asus variations on the same device.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I have thought of that hut the cost of an extreme and an express + amp + speakers will cost more then an all in one Sonos system. 1 $50 bridge and a $300 or $500 or so Sonos speaker per room depending on size and quality I want in each room. Plus I believe Sonos has like simulated stereo or actual stereo output in there speaker boxes. Plus it's alot easier to setup and will sound a lot better then a airport + amp speaker setup. At least from the reviews and what ive heard.

I was actually thinking of having an audio output coming from the receiver to my media closet/cabinet where I'll run all the speakers to and then have a larger separate amp or something in between the receiver and speakers to control and provide the power to the speakers required just not sure what I would use.

I may be looking into getting a denon receiver since it seems that the onkyo 609-809 don't support airplay. FYI I already have

iPad 2
iPhone
Media sever/ HTPC
Media cabinet/closet

Thanks for the suggestion though.
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpearson02 View Post
I have thought of that hut the cost of an extreme and an express + amp + speakers will cost more then an all in one Sonos system. 1 $50 bridge and a $300 or $500 or so Sonos speaker per room depending on size and quality I want in each room. Plus I believe Sonos has like simulated stereo or actual stereo output in there speaker boxes. Plus it's alot easier to setup and will sound a lot better then a airport + amp speaker setup. At least from the reviews and what ive heard.
Well, you've heard wrong. Airport or AppleTV will provide real stereo output, and a receiver and speakers plus one of those devices will put you at about $250-$500 per room and you will have full stereo (could even put subwoofers in on that budget), you're still cheaper than the Sonos equipment and more flexible (because you can use that equipment for other sources, local).

The sound quality claims are also nonsense.

Quote:
I was actually thinking of having an audio output coming from the receiver to my media closet/cabinet where I'll run all the speakers to and then have a larger separate amp or something in between the receiver and speakers to control and provide the power to the speakers required just not sure what I would use.
Explained this already in my post - you'll need separate volume controls in each room, plus the speakers, plus amplifiers (I even suggested some products to look at), this will be substantially more expensive depending on the route you go, and it will be substantially more limited (because you only get ONE stream from the receiver, and it will NOT convert digital to analog).

Quote:
I may be looking into getting a denon receiver since it seems that the onkyo 609-809 don't support airplay. FYI I already have
The Denon receivers do have Airplay, yes. I want to say the new Pioneer models do as well, but I could be wrong, and I know that some (all?) of Yamaha's newer and higher end products have iPhone/iPad control (as well as IP control). The Onkyos will support streaming from a network though, but I'm fairly sure that's a Windows Media feature (so it may not integrate as cleanly with your Apple equipment as the Denon or other Airplay components would).
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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"Price really isn't to big of an issue"(unless ur talking like 5k and up im trying to keep it reasonable.) and i may go with your options just for flexibility but it just seems a lot more complicated to deal with then just a plug and play like Sonos.(not the biggest fan but it seems so easy to setup)



Not trying to be difficult just trying to get an idea of the cost and what I'm thinking of. You are giving me a lot of information that I am considering.

I was personally thinking of an option of having
10 speakers throughout the house all wired back to my media cabinet where I would have a massive amp/ receiver/ what ever.. bassically like a large reciever/amp with multiple speaker outputs and be able to supply power to all 10 speakers as well as possibly having 1-3 zone seperation not necessary but maybe nice in the future. And then having the large receiver/ amp or what ever hooked up to my computer/server as an input for the audio.

10 x speakers ---- speaker wire ------- Large reciever/amp/some setup --------computer

instead of having multiple t amps/ recievers in each room. ( not really sure where I would even put that stuff in each room as well.) Just want a clean look in the rooms with only ceiling speakers.



You said in your second post about a receiver in each room instead of a T-amp like the first but I think a receiver in each room would be overkill so I did t-amps in my pricing. I think the whole setup may be overkill having an amp in each room with volume control etc. etc. Since its just going to be background music. I'm not really looking for audiophile type sound with subs in each room as well.

Airport Extreme Base Station - $180
Airport Express - $100 x 7 = $700
Speakers - $77 x 10 = $770
Just some random Polk's I saw with good reviews.
T-Amp - $100 x 7 = $700
Random T amp with good reviews.

Total - $2350

FYI Sonos does play local content.

Sonos Bridge - $50
Sonos Play 3 - $300 x 4 = 1200
Sonos Play 5 - $500 x 2 = 1000

Total = $2250

Slightly cheaper for Sonos above products may be overkill on power and speakers possibly better quality then a Sonos system not sure, but then again I'm looking for an easy way to get music throughout the house. I don't need volume controls for each room but even if I wanted to change the volume Sonos players have that included in each speaker box and I believe it can all be changed and controlled through the computer/iPad app/controller.

Ill take a look at those Yamaha's and Pioneer's.

thanks again
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:26 AM
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You could always do a mix of the two. I purchased a slightly used 12 channel amp (6 zones) on ebay and will purchase 6 zp80 or 90s depending on what I can find for cheaper. Its slighly less than getting the ZP120s if you can find a good amp for cheap. I already have built in ceiling speakers so I'm saving cost there so it may be a little more expensive but it will give you the clean look.

Just an idea!
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by klooney View Post

You could always do a mix of the two. I purchased a slightly used 12 channel amp (6 zones) on ebay and will purchase 6 zp80 or 90s depending on what I can find for cheaper. Its slighly less than getting the ZP120s if you can find a good amp for cheap. I already have built in ceiling speakers so I'm saving cost there so it may be a little more expensive but it will give you the clean look.

Just an idea!

i wasent really thinking of a zoneplayer. ill take a look at those i was looking at the play 3 / 5. do you know what the difference is between them? Because from what i read the play 3 and 5 look similar and are also powered arnt they?

also what Amp was it that you got so i can take a look at it. Thanks
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:36 AM
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the play 3/5 are standalone powered speakers but if you want in-wall speakers (ceiling) I would recommend going with the ZP80/90 which is a non-amplified device to setup a zone. I bought a xantech pa1235 off of ebay for 380 just recieved it and it works perfectly, it retails for roughly 1200. The reason I went this route is the powered 100/120 costs roughly 400 on ebay the 80/90 you can pick up for 200-220 so for each zone I'm saving roughly 200. 200 x 6 zones = 1200 - 380 for reciever = savings of roughly 820.
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Old 08-14-2011, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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the play 3/5 are standalone powered speakers but if you want in-wall speakers (ceiling) I would recommend going with the ZP80/90 which is a non-amplified device to setup a zone. I bought a xantech pa1235 off of ebay for 380 just recieved it and it works perfectly, it retails for roughly 1200. The reason I went this route is the powered 100/120 costs roughly 400 on ebay the 80/90 you can pick up for 200-220 so for each zone I'm saving roughly 200. 200 x 6 zones = 1200 - 380 for reciever = savings of roughly 820.

Ya i think you did exactly what im looking for i think all ill need for now is the 12 channel amp to run all the speakers from and then connect that to an onkyo or denon reciever which ever i end up on but those zoneplayer 90's look like a possible upgrade later since right now all i want is the same source throughout my whole house.

Im guessibg you have all the speakers wired to the amp as different channels and then have 6 zoneplayers as 6 different source/ zones all connected to the source inputs on ur amp?

What in ceiling speakers are you using?

Thanks again i figured all i really needed was a large amp but just wasent sure which to purchase and if it would work correctly.
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Old 08-14-2011, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tpearson02 View Post

Ya i think you did exactly what im looking for i think all ill need for now is the 12 channel amp to run all the speakers from and then connect that to an onkyo or denon reciever which ever i end up on but those zoneplayer 90's look like a possible upgrade later since right now all i want is the same source throughout my whole house.

Im guessibg you have all the speakers wired to the amp as different channels and then have 6 zoneplayers as 6 different source/ zones all connected to the source inputs on ur amp?

What in ceiling speakers are you using?

Thanks again i figured all i really needed was a large amp but just wasent sure which to purchase and if it would work correctly.

I've said this a couple of times...

If you go with a monolithic distribution amplifier (like the 12-channel models you're considering), or a set of stereo amplifiers run in daisy-chain (identical in capability to the monolith, just more boxes), you can absolutely do your "run everything to the media cabinet", but do realize that every speaker in the entire system will play the same signal, all the time. You will need volume controls for each set of speakers, or else they will ALL ALWAYS be on, ALWAYS at the same volume. You also must remember that excepting a few VERY expensive pre-amplifiers, no receiver will convert audio from a digital input (like HDMI) to analog for the secondary/tertiary/etc zones.

The price on that Dayton has nearly doubled over what I recall it costing, I wasn't aware of that - I wouldn't pay $100 for that component; you can purchase a full receiver for that. Alternately you can purchase a stereo amplifier and drive numerous speakers from it, again in-line with the monolith concept. For example the AudioSource AMP210 (again, it can be whatever brand you want) - it will drive two pairs of stereo speakers with no problem, and if you understand series/parallel wiring and can deal with the power loss, you can probably get another two pairs of stereo speakers on there with no problem (again, without knowing more about your specific application, it's hard to say how much power you need, or what speakers are suitable).

Look at something like the AudioSource AMP1200 (you can pick any brand you want - Sherbourne, Rotel, Russound, Parasound, Niles, etc), which would drive 12x40 or 6x80, you will connect a single stereo input from whatever source (receiver's aux zone output, for example), and then connect in-line volume controls between the amplifier terminals and the speakers. You can run stereo in every area, but all areas will monitor the same source. Also remember to use CL2 rated wiring if you're going in-wall (or whatever your local building/electrical codes require).

If you went with something like the AirPlay/Apple system, or a less proprietary solution (WD TV Live for example), you would be able to monitor different sources per area, but you have to provide both speakers and amplification. You can buy active speakers for less than the price of that Dayton and a pair of speakers - look at M-Audio, Audio Engine, etc.

Also, you don't need the Airport Extreme - you just need a WiFi network. Your pricing is a bit rigid, and doesn't take into account a lot of things (so while you can just order all of this up from Amazon, that's only the first step).

If all of these little details are overly complicated to you, you should consider either doing a substantial amount of reading/self-education, or just hiring someone (like GeekSquad or a local hi-fi installer) to do all of this for you, especially if you're going to be putting speakers in-wall or in-ceiling and running wire across your house. I'm not trying to demean you, I'm just suggesting that if this is beyond your abilities, you should either expand your abilities to be capable of this project or hire someone who knows what they're doing. Just like if you don't know anything about plumbing, you should not try re-plumbing your entire house or installing a full irrigation system as your first project. Crawl before you walk.

If you want every room to be independent, Sonos is probably a starting point, same for AirPlay, but you can get substantially more control and features with equipment from AMX and/or Crestron (overall complexity goes up too).

One other option, depending on your existing equipment and taste, would be BoseLink - it will require all equipment (or at least a large majority of it) to be Bose, but it would be very easy to install and configure, and should accomplish what you want. The downside is the initial buy-in is probably a lot higher than your $2000-$2500 projections (ignoring the price of the Lifestyle system for the main zone, the expansion systems can be up to $1000 a piece - that adds up very quickly across ten areas (but it would be supported)).
See more about that here: http://worldwide.bose.com/axa/en_au/...logy/page.html

I'd also avoid further talk of ebay/special pricing - as per AVS rules and because those prices are not uniform nor consistent - just because person A got a good deal does not mean person B can get the same deal. That said, used equipment is an excellent choice if you are on a budget, but you really need to know what you're buying before you jump into that.
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:27 AM
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Ya i think you did exactly what im looking for i think all ill need for now is the 12 channel amp to run all the speakers from and then connect that to an onkyo or denon reciever which ever i end up on but those zoneplayer 90's look like a possible upgrade later since right now all i want is the same source throughout my whole house.

Im guessibg you have all the speakers wired to the amp as different channels and then have 6 zoneplayers as 6 different source/ zones all connected to the source inputs on ur amp?

What in ceiling speakers are you using?

Thanks again i figured all i really needed was a large amp but just wasent sure which to purchase and if it would work correctly.

Exactly all the speakers are wired to the amp as different channels then the 6 zoneplayers are connected to the source inputs on the amp. You connect each zoneplayer to a channel on the amp. The amp is set up for 6 zones each with a source input connection. Hope that makes sense.

I'm not exactly sure which speakers are in the ceiling they were installed previously and I've been lazy and havent checked.
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by walbert View Post

I've said this a couple of times...

If you go with a monolithic distribution amplifier (like the 12-channel models you're considering), or a set of stereo amplifiers run in daisy-chain (identical in capability to the monolith, just more boxes), you can absolutely do your "run everything to the media cabinet", but do realize that every speaker in the entire system will play the same signal, all the time. You will need volume controls for each set of speakers, or else they will ALL ALWAYS be on, ALWAYS at the same volume. You also must remember that excepting a few VERY expensive pre-amplifiers, no receiver will convert audio from a digital input (like HDMI) to analog for the secondary/tertiary/etc zones.

The price on that Dayton has nearly doubled over what I recall it costing, I wasn't aware of that - I wouldn't pay $100 for that component; you can purchase a full receiver for that. Alternately you can purchase a stereo amplifier and drive numerous speakers from it, again in-line with the monolith concept. For example the AudioSource AMP210 (again, it can be whatever brand you want) - it will drive two pairs of stereo speakers with no problem, and if you understand series/parallel wiring and can deal with the power loss, you can probably get another two pairs of stereo speakers on there with no problem (again, without knowing more about your specific application, it's hard to say how much power you need, or what speakers are suitable).

Look at something like the AudioSource AMP1200 (you can pick any brand you want - Sherbourne, Rotel, Russound, Parasound, Niles, etc), which would drive 12x40 or 6x80, you will connect a single stereo input from whatever source (receiver's aux zone output, for example), and then connect in-line volume controls between the amplifier terminals and the speakers. You can run stereo in every area, but all areas will monitor the same source. Also remember to use CL2 rated wiring if you're going in-wall (or whatever your local building/electrical codes require).

If you went with something like the AirPlay/Apple system, or a less proprietary solution (WD TV Live for example), you would be able to monitor different sources per area, but you have to provide both speakers and amplification. You can buy active speakers for less than the price of that Dayton and a pair of speakers - look at M-Audio, Audio Engine, etc.

Also, you don't need the Airport Extreme - you just need a WiFi network. Your pricing is a bit rigid, and doesn't take into account a lot of things (so while you can just order all of this up from Amazon, that's only the first step).

If all of these little details are overly complicated to you, you should consider either doing a substantial amount of reading/self-education, or just hiring someone (like GeekSquad or a local hi-fi installer) to do all of this for you, especially if you're going to be putting speakers in-wall or in-ceiling and running wire across your house. I'm not trying to demean you, I'm just suggesting that if this is beyond your abilities, you should either expand your abilities to be capable of this project or hire someone who knows what they're doing. Just like if you don't know anything about plumbing, you should not try re-plumbing your entire house or installing a full irrigation system as your first project. Crawl before you walk.

If you want every room to be independent, Sonos is probably a starting point, same for AirPlay, but you can get substantially more control and features with equipment from AMX and/or Crestron (overall complexity goes up too).

One other option, depending on your existing equipment and taste, would be BoseLink - it will require all equipment (or at least a large majority of it) to be Bose, but it would be very easy to install and configure, and should accomplish what you want. The downside is the initial buy-in is probably a lot higher than your $2000-$2500 projections (ignoring the price of the Lifestyle system for the main zone, the expansion systems can be up to $1000 a piece - that adds up very quickly across ten areas (but it would be supported)).
See more about that here: http://worldwide.bose.com/axa/en_au/...logy/page.html

I'd also avoid further talk of ebay/special pricing - as per AVS rules and because those prices are not uniform nor consistent - just because person A got a good deal does not mean person B can get the same deal. That said, used equipment is an excellent choice if you are on a budget, but you really need to know what you're buying before you jump into that.

Ebay/special pricing talk is ok to an extent and yes I agree prices are not uniform nor consistent to a point. If a seller is selling zp90s for a certain amount with buy it now and has a stock of 1,000 than that is a pretty consistent price. I just wanted to point out that you can find used audio gear for much cheaper than you can new if you do some digging around although you have to be careful and make sure you buy from a reputable seller and make sure its not "gray" market equipment.
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