Monster Cable and SOPA and PIPA - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
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What's this about Monster Cable wanting to prevent people from selling their used cables? I noticed the petition to stop this on craigslist.

Is BMW or Ferrari going to petition people from selling their used cars? Does anyone know the full scoop on this, or is it as ridiculous as it initially sound?
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post #2 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 01:53 AM
 
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Who cares?

It is about Monster (like many other companies) attempting to stop gray market vendors.

Here's a solution. Don't buy them, and then you have nothing to worry about.

...Especially as you seem to be upset with Monster anyway...or do you simply like looking for and creating problems?

I am fascinated by the seeming masochism of so many who claim so loudly to detest Monster and Bose (and there are many reasons to do so) but who apparently continue to buy their over-priced products and subject themselves to their interpretation of rules and/or physics...

And if someone else, for WHATEVER reason, chooses to buy them... fine. Why do you worry about what everyone else does that still has no impact on your lives. Let them worry about it.

See how easy life can be?

Now excuse me, as I need to go look in my neighbors' windows to see if I can discover them doing something with which I disagree and over which I can fret!

And SOPA is about MUCH MORE than Monster!
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post #3 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 03:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dragonfyr View Post

Who cares?

It is about Monster (like many other companies) attempting to stop gray market vendors.

Here's a solution. Don't buy them, and then you have nothing to worry about.

And if someone else, for WHATEVER reason, chooses to buy them... fine. Why do you worry about what everyone else does
And SOPA is about MUCH MORE than Monster!

If it's more than just Monster then you're saying, don't buy essentially everything in the stores?

I don't buy Bose or Monster, but if it's every manufacturer like Pioneer, Panasonic, or Honda, then I shouldn't buy their products anymore?
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post #4 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a_ok2me View Post

What's this about Monster Cable wanting to prevent people from selling their used cables? I noticed the petition to stop this on craigslist.

Is there a link pertaining to this. First I heard of it.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #5 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
What's this about Monster Cable wanting to prevent people from selling their used cables? I noticed the petition to stop this on craigslist.

Is BMW or Ferrari going to petition people from selling their used cars? Does anyone know the full scoop on this, or is it as ridiculous as it initially sound?

Sounds like rank paranoia to me.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #6 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 08:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by a_ok2me View Post

If it's more than just Monster then you're saying, don't buy essentially everything in the stores?

I don't buy Bose or Monster, but if it's every manufacturer like Pioneer, Panasonic, or Honda, then I shouldn't buy their products anymore?

Yeah. If you object to vendors restricting the distribution and sale of their products via established vendors who share a legally recognized business relationship and not the gray market, then don't buy them.

That's your choice.

Its rather amazing that some are just now discovering what has been standard practice in business...and then only focus on Bose and Monster!

And their concern is NOT simply "used" cables! It is unauthorized dealers selling their products!
How about stating the actual issue properly and then reacting to reality and not simply someone's emotional interpretation.

Which is all the more amazing considering that none of the posters claim to buy the products anyway...

Life is simple for me, as I don't care what Monster or Bose does. But I guess if worrying about what Bose of Monster does is the is level at which folks interact with audio, well, I guess it would be traumatic - as well as more than a bit pathological.
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post #7 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 09:22 AM
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Life is simple, don't worry and comment about things that don't directly affect you.

But I can make multiple lengthy posts expressing my frustration and obsession with those comments, which of course don't directly affect me.

Lol. This board is amusing at times.

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post #8 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 09:31 AM
 
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Or you can troll threads and make comments which add nothing pertaining to either AV, acoustical or topical value.

Well, at least you have that down - over 3300 times...
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post #9 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

Is there a link pertaining to this. First I heard of it.

here it is... http://www.craigslist.org/about/SOPA
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post #10 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dragonfyr View Post

Yeah. If you object to vendors restricting the distribution and sale of their products via established vendors who share a legally recognized business relationship and not the gray market, then don't buy them.

Well... if it prevents me from selling my used AV equipment or Honda online, then it would affect me and I wouldn't agree with it.

If the manufacturers have a problem with unauthorized retailers selling new items they purchased at wholesale prices and then pass the savings at a cheaper price, then don't sell it to the unauthorized retailers and maintain an authorized dealer list. It can be viewed as the manufacturers' own fault. They should fix their own business instead for lobbying legislation.
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post #11 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by a_ok2me View Post

Well... if it prevents me from selling my used AV equipment or Honda online, then it would affect me and I wouldn't agree with it.

If the manufacturers have a problem with unauthorized retailers selling new items they purchased at wholesale prices and then pass the savings at a cheaper price, then don't sell it to the unauthorized retailers and maintain an authorized dealer list. It can be viewed as the manufacturers' own fault. They should fix their own business instead for lobbying legislation.

Interesting in deed especially if this would apply to used products. There is no end in sight what could be blocked with such laws, at least on line. But wait, what can be next? Ads in newspapers and any printed material?
Each maker will control the movement of their products on the planet.
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post #12 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigus View Post

Life is simple, don't worry and comment about things that don't directly affect you.

.....

Yep, and when it affects you personally, who will you turn to for help as it may not affect the next guy. No one will help you or be able to help you.

No, life is not simple anymore.
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post #13 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 04:15 PM
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Interesting in deed especially if this would apply to used products.

Oh, for crissakes. This is not happening. Some guy saw an online petition on Craigslist about it. That doesn't mean it's true. It's a total crock.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #14 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 04:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by a_ok2me View Post


If the manufacturers have a problem with unauthorized retailers selling new items they purchased at wholesale prices and then pass the savings at a cheaper price, then don't sell it to the unauthorized retailers and maintain an authorized dealer list. It can be viewed as the manufacturers' own fault. They should fix their own business instead for lobbying legislation.

Geesh.
They DON'T!
Do you literally have NO idea how the grey market works?

The manufacturers DON'T sell it to the unauthorized distributors!

Do everyone a favor and please do a bit of research before you come here making naive or unsubstantiated claims all based simply on the fact that you may have read it online - and from a petition on Craigslist!!!

SOPA and PIPA have more than enough REAL problems without manufactured nonsense like this!
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post #15 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 06:15 PM
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The manufacturers DON'T sell it to the unauthorized distributors!

If they did, they'd be authorized distributors.

Quote:


SOPA and PIPA have more than enough REAL problems without manufactured nonsense like this!

+1

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post #16 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dragonfyr View Post

Geesh.
They DON'T!
Do you literally have NO idea how the grey market works?

The manufacturers DON'T sell it to the unauthorized distributors!

Do everyone a favor and please do a bit of research before you come here making naive or unsubstantiated claims all based simply on the fact that you may have read it online - and from a petition on Craigslist!!!

SOPA and PIPA have more than enough REAL problems without manufactured nonsense like this!

Get over yourself. Telling me what I can and cannot sell on Craigslist is not Monster Cable or any other manufacturer right !

There may very well be grey market issues on Craigslist but lets not address those speciifically but **** with even the honest guy ?

Makes perfect sense just like the whole we must be all pirates deal with HDMI and the like. Example is down rezzing HD in certain products and making it illegal to sell a convertor like HDFURY
for those of us with older rear projection sets. I mean were all guilty of piracy or selling gry market gear so penalize us all instead of dealing with the guilty few.

BS
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post #17 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dragonfyr View Post

Do everyone a favor and please do a bit of research before you come here making naive or unsubstantiated claims all based simply on the fact that you may have read it online - and from a petition on Craigslist!!!

The petition was posted by craiglist, not some individual poster.


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Originally Posted by dragonfyr View Post

The manufacturers DON'T sell it to the unauthorized distributors!

They do. I've experienced it firsthand and brought it to their attention, but they choose not to do anything about it.

I've purchased items from unauthorized distributors. At some point in the chain, it came from the manufacturer. I assume there are many possibilities. But an example, the manufacturer sells it to an authorized distributor at wholesale, who in turn sells it at a retail discount representing to be a different entity. Or you have authorized dealers selling it to unauthorized zones online for a retail discount, which I've seen on this forum.

In any case, as long as there is demand, sellers will always find ways to make a sale whether it's legal or not. And if I buy something, I'd like the right to sell it for whatever price I want since it is mine, even if I was a retailer.
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post #18 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 08:24 PM
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The petition was posted by craiglist, not some individual poster.

Well, here's the petition he's talking about. A bit breathless, if you ask me. Also, borderline incoherent.

CL, like most of the Internet, is opposed to SOPA, and for some very good reasons. But nothing in SOPA is going to prevent anyone from reselling used equipment of any kind. CL is just employing that as a scare tactic, because it doesn't want to be seen as defending intellectual property crimes, some of which it undoubtedly profits from.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #19 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dragonfyr View Post

Or you can troll threads and make comments which add nothing pertaining to either AV, acoustical or topical value.

Well, at least you have that down - over 3300 times...

I'm allowed to point out irony when I see it. Get over yourself.

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post #20 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 09:17 PM
 
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I'm allowed to point out irony when I see it. Get over yourself.

As usual, as you object to others doing the same.

Ironic, huh?

I wonder, will you ever have anything of value to add to a discussion regarding AV or acoustics? Now THAT will be an occasion.
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post #21 of 27 Old 01-15-2012, 10:06 PM
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I wonder, will you ever have anything of value to add to a discussion regarding AV or acoustics? Now THAT will be an occasion.

it's laughable the ratio of individual posts/comments i bookmark (for future reference) on this forum vs that of others...
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post #22 of 27 Old 01-16-2012, 12:16 AM
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Wow. Wtf.

Some serious 12 year old girl arguments going on in here.

Good job men. Keep up the good work. And by all means continue to show how mature you are.



Matt

"The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live." - George Carlin
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post #23 of 27 Old 01-16-2012, 02:51 AM
 
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Funny the types that are attracted to "serious 12 year old girl arguments"...

But then such mature erudite folks who use "wow" and "wtf" in posts and feel compelled to comment on the exchanges between "12 year old girl(s)" are probably ignorant of the penchant big has for following others around pretending to act as social arbiter.

Sorry Matt, but I fear you are just a bit too old and mature for me.
...But hey, you never know, big may be into old trolls like you.

'wtf', aye?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetmeck View Post

... Telling me what I can and cannot sell on Craigslist is not Monster Cable or any other manufacturer right !

There may very well be grey market issues on Craigslist but lets not address those speciifically but **** with even the honest guy ?

Makes perfect sense just like the whole we must be all pirates deal with HDMI and the like. Example is down rezzing HD in certain products and making it illegal to sell a convertor like HDFURY
for those of us with older rear projection sets. I mean were all guilty of piracy or selling gry market gear so penalize us all instead of dealing with the guilty few.

BS

Quote:
Originally Posted by a_ok2me View Post

The petition was posted by craiglist, not some individual poster.

They do. I've experienced it firsthand and brought it to their attention, but they choose not to do anything about it.

I've purchased items from unauthorized distributors. At some point in the chain, it came from the manufacturer. I assume there are many possibilities. But an example, the manufacturer sells it to an authorized distributor at wholesale, who in turn sells it at a retail discount representing to be a different entity. Or you have authorized dealers selling it to unauthorized zones online for a retail discount, which I've seen on this forum.

In any case, as long as there is demand, sellers will always find ways to make a sale whether it's legal or not. And if I buy something, I'd like the right to sell it for whatever price I want since it is mine, even if I was a retailer.

And isn't it funny to listen to such righteous indignation of those who hallucinate that someone is telling them what they can or can't buy???

Are you aware that the gray market is NOT illegal - despite what a business like Craigslist that has actively enabled and supported the advertising by hookers may allege?

And have you even read a synopsis of what SOPA and PIPA propose (however imperfectly) to do? Obviously not! As you stomp about making pronouncements based upon totally fanciful assumptions based on the claims of a site who does not want to become subject to policing itself... Oh, but what does THAT have to do with SOPA?????

And while SOPA proposes expanding the ability of U.S. law enforcement and copyright holders to fight online trafficking of copyrighted intellectual property and counterfeit goods by shutting down sites that facilitate such dealings, SOPA does not propose to necessarily make such grey market behavior illegal!

But SOPA does propose to extend and hold online sites responsible for self-policing their site as they are responsible for enabling the marketing of goods that may not be legitimate or that are represented as being legitimate and which carry a manufacturers' warranty. And thus they cannot turn a blind eye to marketers who simply advertise such goods complete with all of the associated good will that comes with a brand and then leave the buyer hanging if there is a problem who buys a product that due to the 'novel' distribution channel (or the fact that it may be counterfeit) is not supported by the manufacturer.

But just like Craigslist likes to pretend that it has no idea what individuals may advertise for on their site, they likewise want no responsibility for what others may advertise on their site as they rake in the money acting like a wide eyed innocent surprised that one might dare use their site for anything less than honest behavior! Can you imagine?????

Sure, YOU demand the right to sell whatever you like to anyone. Do you also assume full responsibility if the buyer experiences a problem with the item? So what about the poor fools who buy what is represented as authentic product who then discover that there is a problem and now expect the manufacturer, whose merits you or the seller have touted in selling the item as authentic, to pick up your slack when you are suddenly not around to refund the money? You see, part of the responsibilities of being an "authorized dealer" may legally involve addressing such obligations.

But then I expect folks like you to be among the first to cry about that and demand to know what the proverbial "they" will do to protect you who thought you were getting ahead by making such a deal if you are the buyer.... Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

But then, there were lots of folks like you who bought what they FELT were legitimate drugs from Canada advertised via Google. Of course, that is why Google just had to pay a $500 million settlement with the Department of Justice for its role in a scheme to target U.S. consumers with ads to buy illegal prescription drugs from Canadian pharmacies.

Gee, I wonder why Craigslist who has allowed ANYTHING to be advertised, legal or illegal, would have problems with SOPA? Can we say they anticipate being shut down????? This isn't about Monster, its about Craigslist's manner of conducting business.

As I mentioned earlier, do a bit more research into how the gray market works and stop misrepresenting the realities of that market and making assumptions about what companies are doing based upon some unsubstantiated allegations by a party who themselves are not exactly known for supporting ethical behavior. But then who knows, one may have come across the petition while perusing Craigslist for personal services...

The fact is, Craigslist is afraid of being held accountable for the crap that gets posted on their online site, as such sites stand to be shuttered by virtue that they do not police themselves per the terms of SOPA, as they function as enablers of such behavior, which is often, but not necessarily, a scam. But its amazing that you NEVER get around to establishing a nexus as to just why Craigslist suddenly has its panties in a wad over SOPA, do you?

And you can't understand why any legitimate business would not want to become embroiled in the lack of good will that results in someone being taken in such a venue by someone falsely representing their product? And why NO legitimate company does? Oh, but since they mentioned "Monster" that's different - the emotional knee jerk reaction engages and the mind stays in neutral.

I wonder, who do you call and complain to if the goods are not what you expected? Craigslist? The Better Business Bureau? Or does one just whine in forums like this that they got taken in the same way that they thought they were getting ahead had things gone they way they had hoped?

And if you think all of the goods sold are authentic, you obviously have never been to SEG in Shenzhen or the Commercial City or Dongmen Street Markets in Luohu (Shenzhen), the electronics and mobile market next to the Pearl River in Guangzhou, or the Cybermart in Shanghai, or the electronics mart 'under the bridge' in Dallas!

Hint: don't; ...as you have "easy mark" written all over you. But then you probably also have the whacked idea that all Chinese markets are rip offs and that you can't find some absolutely amazing deals if you employ due diligence. But why do I get the feeling that instead of exiting a winner that you would exit a whiner?
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post #24 of 27 Old 01-16-2012, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonfyr View Post

Funny the types that are attracted to "serious 12 year old girl arguments"...

But then such mature erudite folks who use "wow" and "wtf" in posts and feel compelled to comment on the exchanges between "12 year old girl(s)" are probably ignorant of the penchant big has for following others around pretending to act as social arbiter.

Sorry Matt, but I fear you are just a bit too old and mature for me.
...But hey, you never know, big may be into old trolls like you.

'wtf', aye?

And isn't it funny to listen to such righteous indignation of those who hallucinate that someone is telling them what they can or can't buy???

Are you aware that the gray market is NOT illegal - despite what a business like Craigslist that has actively enabled and supported the advertising by hookers may allege?

And have you even read a synopsis of what SOPA and PIPA propose (however imperfectly) to do? Obviously not! As you stomp about making pronouncements based upon totally fanciful assumptions based on the claims of a site who does not want to become subject to policing itself... Oh, but what does THAT have to do with SOPA?????

And while SOPA proposes expanding the ability of U.S. law enforcement and copyright holders to fight online trafficking of copyrighted intellectual property and counterfeit goods by shutting down sites that facilitate such dealings, SOPA does not propose to necessarily make such grey market behavior illegal!

But SOPA does propose to extend and hold online sites responsible for self-policing their site as they are responsible for enabling the marketing of goods that may not be legitimate or that are represented as being legitimate and which carry a manufacturers' warranty. And thus they cannot turn a blind eye to marketers who simply advertise such goods complete with all of the associated good will that comes with a brand and then leave the buyer hanging if there is a problem who buys a product that due to the 'novel' distribution channel (or the fact that it may be counterfeit) is not supported by the manufacturer.

But just like Craigslist likes to pretend that it has no idea what individuals may advertise for on their site, they likewise want no responsibility for what others may advertise on their site as they rake in the money acting like a wide eyed innocent surprised that one might dare use their site for anything less than honest behavior! Can you imagine?????

Sure, YOU demand the right to sell whatever you like to anyone. Do you also assume full responsibility if the buyer experiences a problem with the item? So what about the poor fools who buy what is represented as authentic product who then discover that there is a problem and now expect the manufacturer, whose merits you or the seller have touted in selling the item as authentic, to pick up your slack when you are suddenly not around to refund the money? You see, part of the responsibilities of being an "authorized dealer" may legally involve addressing such obligations.

But then I expect folks like you to be among the first to cry about that and demand to know what the proverbial "they" will do to protect you who thought you were getting ahead by making such a deal if you are the buyer.... Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

But then, there were lots of folks like you who bought what they FELT were legitimate drugs from Canada advertised via Google. Of course, that is why Google just had to pay a $500 million settlement with the Department of Justice for its role in a scheme to target U.S. consumers with ads to buy illegal prescription drugs from Canadian pharmacies.

Gee, I wonder why Craigslist who has allowed ANYTHING to be advertised, legal or illegal, would have problems with SOPA? Can we say they anticipate being shut down????? This isn't about Monster, its about Craigslist's manner of conducting business.

As I mentioned earlier, do a bit more research into how the gray market works and stop misrepresenting the realities of that market and making assumptions about what companies are doing based upon some unsubstantiated allegations by a party who themselves are not exactly known for supporting ethical behavior. But then who knows, one may have come across the petition while perusing Craigslist for personal services...

The fact is, Craigslist is afraid of being held accountable for the crap that gets posted on their online site, as such sites stand to be shuttered by virtue that they do not police themselves per the terms of SOPA, as they function as enablers of such behavior, which is often, but not necessarily, a scam. But its amazing that you NEVER get around to establishing a nexus as to just why Craigslist suddenly has its panties in a wad over SOPA, do you?

And you can't understand why any legitimate business would not want to become embroiled in the lack of good will that results in someone being taken in such a venue by someone falsely representing their product? And why NO legitimate company does? Oh, but since they mentioned "Monster" that's different - the emotional knee jerk reaction engages and the mind stays in neutral.

I wonder, who do you call and complain to if the goods are not what you expected? Craigslist? The Better Business Bureau? Or does one just whine in forums like this that they got taken in the same way that they thought they were getting ahead had things gone they way they had hoped?

And if you think all of the goods sold are authentic, you obviously have never been to SEG in Shenzhen or the Commercial City or Dongmen Street Markets in Luohu (Shenzhen), the electronics and mobile market next to the Pearl River in Guangzhou, or the Cybermart in Shanghai, or the electronics mart 'under the bridge' in Dallas!

Hint: don't; ...as you have "easy mark" written all over you. But then you probably also have the whacked idea that all Chinese markets are rip offs and that you can't find some absolutely amazing deals if you employ due diligence. But why do I get the feeling that instead of exiting a winner that you would exit a whiner?

How old are you?? 30? 40? 50? 60?

I'm not in any of those age ranges (I'm an incontinent 140 year old). And sure I troll but hey at least I know I am a troll. I accept what I am. I am a feces stirrer and I perform my job well (it's hard to be me). You still rant and rave and whine like your 12. Based on the standards of my generation I have far surpassed their maturity. I think you how ever are still living in your long lost childhood upset that someone kicked sand in your face.

I am sorry that someone took your lunch money and stole your ice cream and beat you up in grade 3 but cmon now.

Also I don't think you or big could handle what I'm "packin". Oh and it's "eh" aye is what pirates say. Unless you are admitting through a Freudian slip to your love of butt piratry seeing how you are so interested in the relations a mr big and myself could have. Closet much?

Wtf eh?

Ah he he he he he.

Oh and my Matt daddy tip of the day is "if it tastes like chicken keep on lickin' if it tastes like trout get f**k out!!"

"The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live." - George Carlin
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post #25 of 27 Old 01-16-2012, 10:23 AM
 
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Well, we were wrong about one thing...12 year olds are far too old as they will have already heard all of your lines and would simply laugh "at what your packin'".


And SOPA is not about Monster as some Craigslist straw man petition seems to suggest. But Craigslist will have their hands full if it does pass...
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post #26 of 27 Old 01-16-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonfyr View Post

Well, we were wrong about one thing...12 year olds are far too old as they will have already heard all of your lines and would simply laugh "at what your packin'".

And SOPA is not about Monster as some Craigslist straw man petition seems to suggest. But Craigslist will have their hands full if it does pass...

I don't know if a middle aged man such as yourself should be discussing the sexual relations of children. You may get yourself into some trouble. Just lookin out for you. But you really should stop trying to sexualize this discussion in relation to children. It's a little disturbing.

Matt

"The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live." - George Carlin
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post #27 of 27 Old 01-16-2012, 11:40 AM
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OK guys, this went off the tracks a bit.

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