At what point do i need to worry about current draw from one electrical outlet? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 87 Old 02-24-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

I also said that I should not have used the word "most". I'm from the USA too, but in my area, we can read and understand English.


The NEC code is written in english!
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post #32 of 87 Old 02-24-2012, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBrat View Post

You can always buy on of these kill-a-watt measuring devices.

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/measure.html

+1. They're cheap. $20-40 at Amazon, depending on the model: http://www.amazon.com/P3-Internation.../dp/B00009MDBU

It's REALLY doubtful there will be any issues whatsoever, unless that fish tank gear is especially beefy. (I agree, not a bad idea to move that to another outlet... although there's really no point unless that other outlet can be verified to be on another circuit)

If there's ANY concern, the kill-a-watt devices will measure actual, real-world draw of the entire system. Plug your power strip into the kill-a-watt, and crank the system to stupid levels, with everything going. You'll likely be surprised to see how little everything all running at once actually uses. A 15 amp circuit could most likely have been fine, unless there are a lot of other heavily-loaded outlets on the same breaker, and with a 20 amp circuit, there's pretty much no doubt there will be no issue.
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post #33 of 87 Old 02-24-2012, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone.....How about my question regarding whether or not I can run a 3 channel amp across my front 3 speakers and still utilize the other 4 outputs for my surrounds? This can be done right? Thanks
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post #34 of 87 Old 02-24-2012, 03:52 PM
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The NEC code is just a rule book. It's not a law until a city or state makes it a law. That city or state if free to chose what year code-book to use (2003, 2005, 2008, 2011 or soon 2014). Each city or state is also free to delete parts or to add further restrictions.

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post #35 of 87 Old 02-24-2012, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smfins View Post

Hey everyone.....How about my question regarding whether or not I can run a 3 channel amp across my front 3 speakers and still utilize the other 4 outputs for my surrounds? This can be done right? Thanks

Yes.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #36 of 87 Old 02-24-2012, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks!
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post #37 of 87 Old 02-24-2012, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smfins View Post

Hey everyone.....How about my question regarding whether or not I can run a 3 channel amp across my front 3 speakers and still utilize the other 4 outputs for my surrounds? This can be done right? Thanks

Absolutely, that's why 3 channel amps are popular. The good news is the rear 2-4 surround channels are a LOT less demanding, so your AVR should be able to push them no problem, while your beefier separate amp handles the more important LCR speakers.
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post #38 of 87 Old 02-26-2012, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smfins View Post

Hey everyone.....How about my question regarding whether or not I can run a 3 channel amp across my front 3 speakers and still utilize the other 4 outputs for my surrounds? This can be done right? Thanks

You just want to be sure the amp is compatible with the impedance of your speakers when in the bridged mode.

Also, about all this power circuit stuff, circuit breakers aren't brick wall cutoff/limiters. A breaker will pass much more than its rated capacity for short durations that will cover very high peak demands. So, unless you're going to run continuous test tones through your system at WFO level, the breaker will see just high peaks not high continuous load.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #39 of 87 Old 02-26-2012, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post


For example: I run an AVR that can draw a max of 1200 watts, two subs totaling 600 watts and another two near 3000 watts. So total I could be looking at near 5000 watts considering the additional items/equipment. All on a dedicated 20 amp / 10 ga HT run (could go 30 amp if desired). Even at reference levels I have never seen it exceed 5 amps. Believe it or not, on average my living room 54 inch plasma and 5 channel system draws more under normal operation.


Afaik, per NEC, 20A is max you can connect to a general purpose lighting/receptacle circuit regardless that you have used 10ga cable.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #40 of 87 Old 02-26-2012, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post


You just want to be sure the amp is compatible with the impedance of your speakers when in the bridged mode.

I don't think his plan is to "bridge" any amplifiers. He just wants to bypass the internal front three channel amps in his AVR with a dedicated three channel amp with more prowess. Then just utilize the AVR amps to run the side surrounds and rear channels etc. No bridging involved.. :-)

Cheers

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post #41 of 87 Old 02-26-2012, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post


Afaik, per NEC, 20A is max you can connect to a general purpose lighting/receptacle circuit regardless that you have used 10ga cable.

Thanks. I mentioned 30 amp given the dedicated 10 ga wiring - of which can be used for 30 amp circuits. Regardless, the way my dedicated circuit is run to the equipment area (and discussed via the electrician) I'm near positive it falls outside of the "general purpose" category. This circuit doesn't power a room of receptacles and lighting.. The room has two other 15 amp circuits for that.

I think we have muddy'd this thread enough with NEC / power chat myself.

Sorry OP.

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post #42 of 87 Old 02-26-2012, 08:02 AM
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I would be more concerned with using a very good quality receptacle and good plugs, than anything else.
A good, commercial-quality receptacle is only a few dollars...plugs are similar. A tight connection will prevent overheating in the outlet.
I've seen melted (cheap) plugs and outlets in studios and editing bays.

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post #43 of 87 Old 02-26-2012, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

Thanks. I mentioned 30 amp given the dedicated 10 ga wiring - of which can be used for 30 amp circuits. Regardless, the way my dedicated circuit is run to the equipment area (and discussed via the electrician) I'm near positive it falls outside of the "general purpose" category. This circuit doesn't power a room of receptacles and lighting.. The room has two other 15 amp circuits for that.

I think we have muddy'd this thread enough with NEC / power chat myself.

Sorry OP.

Nothing wrong with using 10ga wire for less voltage drop.

However, IMO, merely because you use them as dedicated circuits doesn't permit 30A fusing under some type of clause regarding non general purpose application. If, for no other reason than the "Edison" type receptacles and plugs (5-15P/5-15R, 5-20P/5-20R, or the non-grounding 1-xxx variants) are only rated for 15A or 20A, not 30A.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #44 of 87 Old 02-26-2012, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

I don't think his plan is to "bridge" any amplifiers. He just wants to bypass the internal front three channel amps in his AVR with a dedicated three channel amp with more prowess. Then just utilize the AVR amps to run the side surrounds and rear channels etc. No bridging involved.. :-)

Cheers

There was mention of six channel Rotel with those channels bridged to three.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smfins View Post

Yes My receiver does have the pre outs, and i will check to see what my breakers are. Thanks for the info, and Like i said i have been looking at an Adcom 3 channel, but i also stumbled across a couple rotel 6 channel amps that can be bridged to 150x3. any other suggestions for 3 channel amps or bridgeable 6 channel amps?


Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #45 of 87 Old 02-26-2012, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post


There was mention of six channel Rotel with those channels bridged to three.

Good point, I only remembered his last post of the three channel Rotel.

Cheers

Love DIY
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post #46 of 87 Old 02-26-2012, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post


Nothing wrong with using 10ga wire for less voltage drop.

However, IMO, merely because you use them as dedicated circuits doesn't permit 30A fusing under some type of clause regarding non general purpose application. If, for no other reason than the "Edison" type receptacles and plugs (5-15P/5-15R, 5-20P/5-20R, or the non-grounding 1-xxx variants) are only rated for 15A or 20A, not 30A.

Correct, you must utilize the appropriate NEMA connectors for the applicable circuit.

Cheers

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post #47 of 87 Old 02-27-2012, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

... As Chris said, the initial current surge is primarily to charge the capacitors in the power supply and happens even if nothing else is hooked to the amp. Note that I have only had this issue rarely, and many (perhaps most) people not at all, so it is not something I would be too concerned about.

Have you used an AVR and an Amp on a "green" power strip? The initial influx makes since, and once the AVR(master) is on, the Amp(slave) would then draw whatever it needs for it's capacitors. What happens if the AVR is suddenly shut off, before the Amp could do everything it needs, would this damage the Amp?

I've been eyeballing these "green" strips for a while, but I am not sure if they do any harm. Also, if they don't do any harm, then it may be a good idea for the OP to use one, yes?
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post #48 of 87 Old 02-27-2012, 10:27 AM
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A "green" power strip isn't going to save you one bit of power during normal use. What it will do is automatically kill the power to the amp and any other bits plugged into the switched outlets when the trigger device is shut off. Some devices always draw a little power when shut off. A green strip can help reduce that. However, it's not something you'd want to use with a device that requires AC to maintain memory/settings.

Some AVRs and amps already have the capability for remote switching capability.

The caps in an amp charge up pretty quick. This isn't a concern with regard to turning off the amp too soon.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #49 of 87 Old 02-27-2012, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by underminded999 View Post

Have you used an AVR and an Amp on a "green" power strip? The initial influx makes since, and once the AVR(master) is on, the Amp(slave) would then draw whatever it needs for it's capacitors. What happens if the AVR is suddenly shut off, before the Amp could do everything it needs, would this damage the Amp?

I've been eyeballing these "green" strips for a while, but I am not sure if they do any harm. Also, if they don't do any harm, then it may be a good idea for the OP to use one, yes?

What whoaru99 said.

I have a 750VA "green" UPS unit and my amps will trip its breaker when they turn on. I could turn them on manually, or stagger them with a little control unit, but they are now on a dedicated 20A line and I like them there. I use X10 appliance switches to turn them on, controlled by the AVR's 12V trigger through a little X10 transmitter unit.

My old tube amp would occasionally trip the breaker on a 15A power strip at turn-on.

I have not tried a SmartStrip; it would not work in my situation (amps on different circuit than AVR).

For a lot of reasons rapid power cycling of electronic componets (or most anything else) is not a good idea...

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post #50 of 87 Old 02-27-2012, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBrat View Post

You can always buy on of these kill-a-watt measuring devices.

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/measure.html

Excellent suggestion!

Available for $20 from Amazon.

Yet another piece of test equipment that used to cost $100s to acquire.
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post #51 of 87 Old 02-27-2012, 01:35 PM
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late to this thread.......this comes up every 2 months or so, I advise people:

Check the back of your equipment or the owners manual (online for planning purposes)

It has this info, max current needs, here my EP2500 uses 9.5A @ 120V:


from my Denon 4308CI manual, (140w/ch 7 ch):
Power supply: AC 120 V, 60 Hz
Power consumption: 8.1 A
0.3 W (Standby)

add them up, be within 80% of the absolute load capacity of your circuit.

Some have said doing it this way you can go 100% of your circuit capacity, because each component in reality won't pull it's max load at same time, etc.
I error on safe side still for my circuit load analysis and usage.

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post #52 of 87 Old 02-27-2012, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

I would be more concerned with using a very good quality receptacle and good plugs, than anything else.
A good, commercial-quality receptacle is only a few dollars...plugs are similar. A tight connection will prevent overheating in the outlet.
I've seen melted (cheap) plugs and outlets in studios and editing bays.

That and moving the fish to another receptacle/branch circuit/receptacle for their own safety were the 2 best posts in this thread.
On a $.29 duplex there is just a small bit of spring pressure making the plug connection - heat it once and it's gone! Try a $3 receptacle at HD with a borrowed plug and see the difference. Then add a good, tight strip for all the other connections - well spread out.
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post #53 of 87 Old 02-27-2012, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

late to this thread.......this comes up every 2 months or so, I advise people:

Check the back of your equipment or the owners manual (online for planning purposes)

It has this info, max current needs, here my EP2500 uses 9.5A @ 120V:

from my Denon 4308CI manual, (140w/ch 7 ch):
Power supply: AC 120 V, 60 Hz
Power consumption: 8.1 A
0.3 W (Standby)

add them up, be within 80% of the absolute load capacity of your circuit.

Some have said doing it this way you can go 100% of your circuit capacity, because each component in reality won't pull it's max load at same time, etc.
I error on safe side still for my circuit load analysis and usage.

Yeah, those numbers are valid if you're running the system WFO with the clipping indicators flashing to about every third beat. In typical use the average draw will be less except perhaps on big peaks, which the inherent time lag of breakers will easily handle.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #54 of 87 Old 02-29-2012, 03:46 PM
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Here is a handy little digital meter that you can use to check current draw as well as power in watts for about $20. Plug your power strip into it and turn all the instruments on and you can read the total power or current.
http://www.amazon.com/P3-Internation.../dp/B00009MDBU

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post #55 of 87 Old 02-29-2012, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Thx for the info!!!
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post #56 of 87 Old 02-29-2012, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoyleS View Post

Here is a handy little digital meter that you can use to check current draw as well as power in watts for about $20. Plug your power strip into it and turn all the instruments on and you can read the total power or current.
http://www.amazon.com/P3-Internation.../dp/B00009MDBU

It'll show a pretty small number unless you're running test tones because it's too slow to show peaky audio demands.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #57 of 87 Old 03-03-2012, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

It'll show a pretty small number unless you're running test tones because it's too slow to show peaky audio demands.

Yes the meter looks at current draw in a way that's similar to the way breakers and wires view current draw.

Neither the meter nor the breaker over-reacts to short peaks.

Kevin
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post #58 of 87 Old 03-03-2012, 08:49 PM
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For a reference point,
I actually performed a bit of a test tonight. Kids wanted to watch the Green Lantern tonight so prior to them sitting down I closed up the HT and cranked the AVR to -10. Played about the first 10 minutes of the movie which is pretty dynamic This is the loudest I can see us ever watching a movie. Awhile back I claimed only seeing between a 4 and 6 amp draw on my system. I watched it closely tonight and with an AVR that can draw 1200 watts, four subs totaling 3600 watts and about 600 watts of projector, cooling fans, BD, HD, power regulator and conditioner etc., it peaked at 9.8 amps. I was also running the subs hotter than normal. 9.8 was the peak yet it ranged from 4 to 8 amps the entire time.

Cheers

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post #59 of 87 Old 03-04-2012, 11:29 AM
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What type of meter was used to measure the current magnitudes? Sorry if I missed that info.

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post #60 of 87 Old 03-04-2012, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Doogie View Post

What type of meter was used to measure the current magnitudes? Sorry if I missed that info.

Just the display on an AVS2000 and HTPS7000. Have no idea how accurate they are, the 7000 is definitely more sensitive and quicker to respond than the 2000. The 2000 looked as if it was just averaging the current draw and the 7000 was actually fluctuating constantly. Volt wise using a meter both units/displays are within a half of a volt. Not sure if the amp reading is as accurate or not.

Edit: my watt use per component is based off the specifications info in the manual - maximum load etc.

Cheers

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