In wall speaker setup -- closer and lower /or/ higher and wider? - AVS Forum
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Old 02-28-2012, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,
I am soliciting input on placement of in-wall L/R speakers for a modest HT setup. My question revolves around whether putting the speakers closer to the TV but lower will be better than farther away from the TV but higher. Due to room geometry and positioning of an existing A/V component wall cutout, that is my tradeoff.

Some detail:
-- L/R speakers are in-wall BIC Acoustech HT-8W (link)
-- Center speaker is BIC VK6-LCR (link)
-- Surround L/R are also HT-8W. These are not optimally positioned in any sense, due to room geometry.
-- Sub is BIC VK-12 (link)
-- TV will be 55" Samsung (UN55D6300)
-- Receiver will be Denon 2112ci.

Room is 22 feet from TV wall to far wall.
Viewing distance is about 10' - 12' from TV.
Vertical viewing angle is approximately 10-15 degrees (bottom edge of TV is about 36" off of the floor).

Below, you will see the general proposed positioning of the TV (shown below with the display corners shown with blue painter's tape), and the possible "closer" left side speaker position (shown below with a speaker cutout template temporarily taped in place in the left position).

Originally I had planned to put the L/R speakers horizontally where you see the speaker wires dangling (see far right and far left, the latter is above the component recess). I came to my senses and determined that putting them vertically would be "better", but that entails bringing the speakers in closer to the TV. In this configuration, the maximum offset from the TV screen edge to the centerline of the L/R speakers would be about 16". This gives a centerline to centerline distance between speakers of about 7 feet. Is this too close together given the viewing distance? But is it better than having the speakers farther apart but horizontal?

The FIRST picture below is taken from the APPROXIMATE viewing position.

I also want to get some of your thoughts on the height of the L/R speakers relative to the TV and the under-TV center channel speaker.









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Old 02-28-2012, 04:59 PM
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Generally speaking the L/R speakers should be near the screen so the sound action ties best with the image. At the 10-12' viewing distance, the horizontal picture angle will be about 20-deg. The closer mounting locations thus will give you something like a 30-deg angle between the L/R speakers.

So yes, I'd recommend the closer locations for L/R, vertically oriented. I'd also mount them lower than shown, with the bottom edge almost even with the bottom of the TV. Two reasons for this: it puts the sound closer to hear height (I realize the tweeter's can be aimed), and it puts the L/R more in line with the center speaker, which I assume will be right beneath the TV.

In fact, you could even start by not installing the center speaker (run it as "phantom" mode), and see if you even need it. Your seating distance means the viewing angle and L/R speaker angle are about half the target for a large-screen home theater, so the benefits of a real center are somewhat reduced. Of course, you can add it later if you like -- so by all means run the wire. If you move the seating closer to the screen, the center becomes more beneficial.

One of the pictures shows a pair of windows on the left wall. The space between them might be ideal for a surround speaker in a 7.1 system. But maybe the opposite side wall is not nearly so cooperative? If it were possible to do 7.1, then the overall surround effect would be improved wrt the rears which are probably more rearward located than ideal for a 5.1 system, but that makes them better for rears in 7.1.

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Old 02-28-2012, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Generally speaking the L/R speakers should be near the screen so the sound action ties best with the image. At the 10-12' viewing distance, the horizontal picture angle will be about 20-deg. The closer mounting locations thus will give you something like a 30-deg angle between the L/R speakers.

Yes, I will have to play with the seating distance for optimal experience -- and it won't be a single spot anyway but more of a family thing.

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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

So yes, I'd recommend the closer locations for L/R, vertically oriented.

Thanks, good input and it agrees with my gut as well.

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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I'd also mount them lower than shown, with the bottom edge almost even with the bottom of the TV. Two reasons for this: it puts the sound closer to hear height (I realize the tweeter's can be aimed), and it puts the L/R more in line with the center speaker, which I assume will be right beneath the TV.

Good advice as well -- and yes, the center speaker (array) will be directly below the LCD and mounted horizontal.

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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

In fact, you could even start by not installing the center speaker (run it as "phantom" mode), and see if you even need it.

I had not considered this, but the wire is the wall already, and the center speaker is here already...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Your seating distance means the viewing angle and L/R speaker angle are about half the target for a large-screen home theater, so the benefits of a real center are somewhat reduced. Of course, you can add it later if you like -- so by all means run the wire. If you move the seating closer to the screen, the center becomes more beneficial.

As noted above, I have to play with the seating distance a bit once I get everything set up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

One of the pictures shows a pair of windows on the left wall. The space between them might be ideal for a surround speaker in a 7.1 system. But maybe the opposite side wall is not nearly so cooperative?

Good observation on the left side wall -- which is directly adjacent to the seating area; however, the right side wall is nearly 20 feet away. Hence the problem, unless I put the speaker in the ceiling (@ 9 feet). I am trying to stay away from that, although I was stuck doing so a bit as you saw from the pictures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

If it were possible to do 7.1, then the overall surround effect would be improved wrt the rears which are probably more rearward located than ideal for a 5.1 system, but that makes them better for rears in 7.1.

I have to think more about how I could do 7.1 and not end up with a haphazard audio configuration.

Thanks for your input,
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrooster View Post

I have to think more about how I could do 7.1 and not end up with a haphazard audio configuration.

I can understand your hesitation about the Rs location being 20' away. But remember that it will be loudness, EQ, and time corrected by the Audyssey system. And since it plays a secondary role to the L/C/R speakers, it would probably work just fine. That is a much better solution than putting it in the ceiling.

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Old 02-28-2012, 11:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I can understand your hesitation about the Rs location being 20' away. But remember that it will be loudness, EQ, and time corrected by the Audyssey system. And since it plays a secondary role to the L/C/R speakers, it would probably work just fine. That is a much better solution than putting it in the ceiling.

What (bad?) will happen if the L and R surround are not equidistant from the front wall?

I am thinking that I could install the R surround on the bath wall, and the L surround in between the windows... hmmm.

There will be an offset should I do this -- the L surround will be approximately 3 feet farther forward than the R surround.

At what height should they be?

Wrooster

This picture approximates the view to the right from the seated listening position...




This is basically the view to the proposed R surround speaker from the TV's perspective...

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Old 06-11-2012, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I thought I would update this with some (mostly) finished pictures... no rugs and furniture yet. smile.gif

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Old 06-12-2012, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrooster View Post


What (bad?) will happen if the L and R surround are not equidistant from the front wall?


I am thinking that I could install the R surround on the bath wall, and the L surround in between the windows... hmmm.


There will be an offset should I do this -- the L surround will be approximately 3 feet farther forward than the R surround.


At what height should they be?


Wrooster


This picture approximates the view to the right from the seated listening position...






This is basically the view to the proposed R surround speaker from the TV's perspective...


One idea would be to build a " false wall " covering about half the distance from where the door is on the right to the left side. You could install the RS in-wall speaker in that false wall and also create a small office cubby in the process that would be somewhat isolated from the main theater part. The only issue would be still getting access to the attic crawlspace.

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Old 06-16-2012, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

One idea would be to build a " false wall " covering about half the distance from where the door is on the right to the left side. You could install the RS in-wall speaker in that false wall and also create a small office cubby in the process that would be somewhat isolated from the main theater part. The only issue would be still getting access to the attic crawlspace.

A wall? Cutting the floorspace in half? To mount a speaker in?

Someday you will find that this sort of approach is going to cut down on any sort of "sexy time" with your spouse, and may in fact reduce it to zero -- plus you'll lose half your assets. smile.gif

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