Equalizer for 7.1? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 03-14-2012, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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What I'd like to do is have a 2 channel equalizer, of sorts, for each pair of speakers. A separate eq for the fronts, surrounds, and surround backs.

The purpose of this would primarily be to isolate specific sounds in gaming (aka soundwhoring). It's my understanding that I shouldn't hook an eq to speaker outs, however, is there a product out there in which I could do this?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 25 Old 03-14-2012, 02:13 PM
 
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You really only need EQ it for the subwoofer.

EQ is only effective for minimum phase relationships above the Schroeder frequency(region) where modal behavior ends and specular behavior begins.

EQ is NOT appropriate to address non-minimum phase behavior above the low frequencies.

Use signal alignment and treatment above that point and control the interaction of early and later arriving high gain reflections to minimize the destructive comb filtering/coloration and errant locational cues.
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post #3 of 25 Old 03-14-2012, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess I was mistaken in what an equalizer is capable of. Maybe I'm using the incorrect verbiage.

An equalizer with a built in crossover would not be able to isolate certain frequencies? Or rather make some more profound than others?
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post #4 of 25 Old 03-14-2012, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1.21JiggaWatts View Post

What I'd like to do is have a 2 channel equalizer, of sorts, for each pair of speakers. A separate eq for the fronts, surrounds, and surround backs.

The purpose of this would primarily be to isolate specific sounds in gaming (aka soundwhoring). It's my understanding that I shouldn't hook an eq to speaker outs, however, is there a product out there in which I could do this?

Thanks!

There are products to do this but they are very expensive.

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

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post #5 of 25 Old 03-14-2012, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

There are products to do this but they are very expensive.

I actually didn't mean isolate, as to remove any audio. I'll rephrase, make certain noises/ frequencies more profound than others.

What would a product like this be named?
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post #6 of 25 Old 03-14-2012, 04:27 PM
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Here is what I was thinking you meant:
http://www.shopping.com/AudioControl...ol-RIALTO/info

But it needs to be inserted between a preamp and an amp. Your best bet might just be a bunch of 2-channel EQs.

B.
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post #7 of 25 Old 03-14-2012, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

Here is what I was thinking you meant:
http://www.shopping.com/AudioControl...ol-RIALTO/info

But it needs to be inserted between a preamp and an amp. Your best bet might just be a bunch of 2-channel EQs.

B.

Thanks Brian.

I had considered using three equalizers on the speaker outs from the receiver, but I've read that it would likely destroy the equalizer.
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post #8 of 25 Old 03-14-2012, 05:38 PM
 
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You would need to set up either a single channnel EQ for each channel, or three dual channel and a single channel, and then a parametric for the Sub. Only reason that I can see using a EQ over the software of the avrs, is if you are like me, and want more control of how the sound is tweaked vs. just going with the standards that the manufacturer has set up.

Also, you would need a separate amp for each channel, a pre-amp vs avrs with amp, a compressor/limiter with delay, so you are talking a few thousand dollars for a decent setup. If the software that your AVRS has for tweaking the sound is doing its job, stick with it for 7.1. If wanting better sound for 2 channel, for music, and that is all you are listening to, go with a decent eq or parametric.

Keep in mind, that a lot confuse the use of a equalizer, whether non-parametric or parametric, with only being used with a sub-woofer, or in live settings. I use a parametric, so that I have better control over how my music sounds, along with tv programming, since all I use is a 2 channel set up, and can get better control than with a non-parametric 31 band graphic.
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post #9 of 25 Old 03-14-2012, 06:04 PM
 
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As mentioned, if you use is not to correct for speaker-room response issues, they can be used essentially as tone controls to modify the direct signal. In which case you would insert a dedicated EQ in-line with each channel that you want to modify.

But if such is the case, I might suggest alternative options such as reexamining your choice of speakers...

Best of luck...
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post #10 of 25 Old 03-14-2012, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1.21JiggaWatts View Post

Thanks Brian.

I had considered using three equalizers on the speaker outs from the receiver, but I've read that it would likely destroy the equalizer.

You can't do what you are trying to do by attaching to the outputs from an amplifier (the speaker outs). If your receiver has preamplifier outputs for all the channels (i.e. L/C/R/SR/SL/Sub etc.) then you can get the equalizer and insert it between the receiver and a separate power amplifier (i.e. a 5ch amplifier).

There will be plenty options for used amplifiers and/or equalizers if you want to keep the cost down.

B.
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post #11 of 25 Old 03-15-2012, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonfyr View Post

As mentioned, if you use is not to correct for speaker-room response issues, they can be used essentially as tone controls to modify the direct signal. In which case you would insert a dedicated EQ in-line with each channel that you want to modify.

But if such is the case, I might suggest alternative options such as reexamining your choice of speakers...

Best of luck...

As far as the speaker room, I feel I'm likely in the most acoustically challenged area of my home. My speakers, while not audiophile grade, I believe will begin to sound better as I reinforce and insulate the cabinets.

What I am aiming for is the ability to centralize sounds such as footsteps and gunfire, while suppressing less important audio.

I would like to insert an equalizer crossover for each pair of speakers for tonal control, but the speaker outs seem to be my only option, and I don't want to kill any component.

My setup is ps3-Hdmi-7.1 receiver-12g cable-speakers.
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post #12 of 25 Old 03-15-2012, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brian B View Post


You can't do what you are trying to do by attaching to the outputs from an amplifier (the speaker outs). If your receiver has preamplifier outputs for all the channels (i.e. L/C/R/SR/SL/Sub etc.) then you can get the equalizer and insert it between the receiver and a separate power amplifier (i.e. a 5ch amplifier).

There will be plenty options for used amplifiers and/or equalizers if you want to keep the cost down.

B.

I have Sony strdh520 7.1 receiver. I dont believe there is a preamp. I wanted an intro piece into 7.1 to see if I felt the extra speakers would be worth it. Some nice features on this unit ,unfortunately not a lot of them.

Im fairly clear I can not do what I'd like to do with what I currently have. It's my impression that I would need a 7.1 preamp - 2 channel crossover/equalizer - 2 channel amp - each pair of speakers L&R, SL&SR, and SLB&SRB. Correct?

Thank you everyone for your help on this!
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post #13 of 25 Old 03-15-2012, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1.21JiggaWatts View Post

I have Sony strdh520 7.1 receiver. I dont believe there is a preamp. I wanted an intro piece into 7.1 to see if I felt the extra speakers would be worth it. Some nice features on this unit ,unfortunately not a lot of them.

Im fairly clear I can not do what I'd like to do with what I currently have. It's my impression that I would need a 7.1 preamp - 2 channel crossover/equalizer - 2 channel amp - each pair of speakers L&R, SL&SR, and SLB&SRB. Correct?

Thank you everyone for your help on this!

Correct. Your receiver does not have pre-outs. You can get any 7.1 receiver that has pre-outs--it will most likely be less costly than a separate preamp. Look for one that has pre-out/main-in shorting pins. Some NAD and Denon products did although they are probably others as well. I would still recommend the EQ I suggested. You will just need to wire the pre-out from the receiver into the EQ and back in the main-in on the receiver. This would allow you to get away with two pieces.

The other option is what someone else suggested and that is to find an AVR with a manual EQ function (built-in) for all the speakers. I don't know all the models out these days, but my guess is that will be much more difficult to find as most products have auto EQ to do room correction and other types of correction that you are not interested in and won't serve your needs.

B.
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post #14 of 25 Old 03-15-2012, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again for your help!

I've always been somewhat of an audio enthusiast, I never realized how diverse and intricate audio can be.

6 months ago I ordered some speakers off of eBay and one of the tweeters was not functioning. The culprit was a bad capacitor. I didn't even realize there would be a capacitor let alone it's purpose. Now in my mid 30s I have yet another hobby. Fun fun times!
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post #15 of 25 Old 03-15-2012, 10:21 AM
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Are you gaming with an HTPC or console? If it is with an HTPC you can use JRiver Media Center. You can route all sound through it from any program on the computer. You can then use its advanced bass management, parametric EQ, limiting, and much more signal processing. You can apply processing to any or all channels. I'm using it for gaming on the HTPC and it works great.
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post #16 of 25 Old 03-15-2012, 11:51 AM
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Leaving aside the questionable wisdom of this, another option (once pre-outs are available and assuming you have power amps/pre-ins) is to pick up a miniDSP or similar unit and EQ using your PC.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #17 of 25 Old 03-15-2012, 12:29 PM
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Those modern receivers that I'm familiar with which include Audyssey audio processing also include manual EQ settings (which disable the Audyssey processing if they're used). However, they're not nearly so satisfying or as easy to use as external graphical equalizers: you can't see their settings without selecting appropriate on-screen menus. On the other hand, manual EQing usually can't do as good a job of correcting for room and speaker deficiencies as the more sophisticated automated processing that's available.

Don't forget that you'll want to get a spectrum analyzer, too, so you can see exactly what changes actually have been made in your audio environment. Human hearing is notoriously unreliable. Dedicated devices as well as computer software packages are readily available.

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post #18 of 25 Old 03-15-2012, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

Are you gaming with an HTPC or console? If it is with an HTPC you can use JRiver Media Center. You can route all sound through it from any program on the computer. You can then use its advanced bass management, parametric EQ, limiting, and much more signal processing. You can apply processing to any or all channels. I'm using it for gaming on the HTPC and it works great.

I use a console, a playstation 3. I may consider pc gaming at some point though, so I thank you for your recommendation. Besides money, the main thing that has kept me away from pc is the corruption that some claim.
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post #19 of 25 Old 03-15-2012, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Those modern receivers that I'm familiar with which include Audyssey audio processing also include manual EQ settings (which disable the Audyssey processing if they're used). However, they're not nearly so satisfying or as easy to use as external graphical equalizers: you can't see their settings without selecting appropriate on-screen menus. On the other hand, manual EQing usually can't do as good a job of correcting for room and speaker deficiencies as the more sophisticated automated processing that's available.

Don't forget that you'll want to get a spectrum analyzer, too, so you can see exactly what changes actually have been made in your audio environment. Human hearing is notoriously unreliable. Dedicated devices as well as computer software packages are readily available.

I will slowly build my inventory of audio tools. I'm only 6 months into this beloved audio world and plan to finish an area in basement that should be very acoustically friendly, but I'm taking baby steps as I learn. All I have thus far is an spl meter and a frequency generator app. Thanks to the spl meter and evenly spaced seating to speakers, I've discovered my right ear can't hear as well as my left.

I agree with your human ear comment, one of the speakers I've purchased was said to sound outstanding by the seller, it's a three way and only the 8" woofer was functional. The misses said it sounded fine despite her ability to hear about 2000hz above me.
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post #20 of 25 Old 03-16-2012, 12:27 PM
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Some SPL meters have a line-level signal output so they can be used as a microphone for doing measurements. If yours has one, it could be used with any of the free spectrum analyzer programs. Many more hours of fun!

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post #21 of 25 Old 03-18-2012, 06:02 AM
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Yamaha receivers have parametric EQ for all channels. This would do what you are after.


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post #22 of 25 Old 03-18-2012, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Some SPL meters have a line-level signal output so they can be used as a microphone for doing measurements. If yours has one, it could be used with any of the free spectrum analyzer programs. Many more hours of fun!

I don't recall the exact model number of my meter, but it's an analog from radio shack. It was about $50 (us). It does have an RCA output on it but the instructions are vague on its required cable. I assume to get a cable to plug it into a mic jack on a computer.

I've already been looking into some of the free software from Ubuntu OS. Hopefully I will find one well suited.
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post #23 of 25 Old 03-18-2012, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post

Yamaha receivers have parametric EQ for all channels. This would do what you are after.

That is great to know!

A majority of my electronic purchases have been Yamaha since the late 80s. I felt unfaithful purchasing the Sony 7.1 but was to curious, yet unsure, of 7.1. I figured it was a better decision to potentially waste $200 than $500-$1000. Plus, I would have gotten 7.2 if I was planning on keeping it.

I'm pleased to see that Yamaha receivers are popular. I'm also kind of disappointed to see that their speakers don't seem that highly recommended. In my uneducated opinion, maybe they don't sound that great to people partially due to their lack of crossover design. My four surrounds, Yamaha ns-a638 merely have 2 caps in them. A 1.5uf for the midrange and 1.5uf for the tweeter.
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post #24 of 25 Old 03-18-2012, 10:40 AM
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The RS SPL meter output should go into the line in, not mic in, of your PC.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #25 of 25 Old 03-18-2012, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

The RS SPL meter output should go into the line in, not mic in, of your PC.

Thank you for the correction Don.
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