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post #1 of 20 Old 03-22-2012, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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My dedicated room is 13 x 19 with the couch against back wall. I have pioneer vsx-1121-k that allows me to run front height or front wide speakers instead of surround back. I wanted a conventional 7.2 system but because my couch is against back wall, would I benefit more if I go with front wide?
I have room wired so that aside from 3 frontstage speakers in front and 2 surrounds on side back wall facing each other, I have wires in the middle of the room (between seating and screen) on side walls about 6 ft high. I was thinking to use that location for front wides. Any ideas guys?
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post #2 of 20 Old 03-22-2012, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cx3gma View Post

My dedicated room is 13 x 19 with the couch against back wall. I have pioneer vsx-1121-k that allows me to run front height or front wide speakers instead of surround back. I wanted a conventional 7.2 system but because my couch is against back wall, would I benefit more if I go with front wide?
I have room wired so that aside from 3 frontstage speakers in front and 2 surrounds on side back wall facing each other, I have wires in the middle of the room (between seating and screen) on side walls about 6 ft high. I was thinking to use that location for front wides. Any ideas guys?

If couch is against the wall, rear surrounds are generally not recommended. You can go by wide or height channels. Audyssey recommends wide to height if you need to choose between the 2 if memory serves me right.
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post #3 of 20 Old 03-22-2012, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cx3gma View Post

I have wires in the middle of the room (between seating and screen) on side walls about 6 ft high. I was thinking to use that location for front wides. Any ideas guys?

With 5 speakers already in the listener plane, I would do height speakers to give the system some vertical dimensionality. Place the heights where you were going to place wides, but as hight up as possible. Will give a better sense of overhead sounds than placing height speakers high up on the front wall (which will give more of an impression of a tall soundstage).

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post #4 of 20 Old 03-22-2012, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you guys. I am attaching pictures for a better visual. The middle speakers are pre-wired but I could move them a little. They are pretty high up close to the ceiling.
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post #5 of 20 Old 03-22-2012, 02:20 PM
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Hmm... given your current speaker placement, you can't really go "wide" since your L/R speakers are already located along the full width of the front wall. So, I think the choice becomes pretty clear: front heights, since that's really the only option left.

edit: just to add, given the depth of the room and your current layout, I think there's room to move the couch/sectional up, which would then allow you to use rear surrounds. That is, of course, assuming you're allowed to make such a change.
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post #6 of 20 Old 03-22-2012, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tezster View Post

Hmm... given your current speaker placement, you can't really go "wide" since your L/R speakers are already located along the full width of the front wall. So, I think the choice becomes pretty clear: front heights, since that's really the only option left.

edit: just to add, given the depth of the room and your current layout, I think there's room to move the couch/sectional up, which would then allow you to use rear surrounds. That is, of course, assuming you're allowed to make such a change.

Makes sense. L and R are really wide apart but would it be OK to make the middle ones height channel if they are about 7 feet away from the front speakers? As for moving a couch, i am allowed (no wife factor ) but will 1-2 feet help? Because anything more and will probably be too close to 135' screen not to mention loosing space.
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post #7 of 20 Old 03-22-2012, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

With 5 speakers already in the listener plane, I would do height speakers to give the system some vertical dimensionality. Place the heights where you were going to place wides, but as hight up as possible. Will give a better sense of overhead sounds than placing height speakers high up on the front wall (which will give more of an impression of a tall soundstage).

So I guess you are saying it's OK to designate middle channels as height even though they are going to be 7 feet away from L and R speakers as long as they are going to be high up. Either way wide seems to be worse option.
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post #8 of 20 Old 03-22-2012, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

If couch is against the wall, rear surrounds are generally not recommended. You can go by wide or height channels. Audyssey recommends wide to height if you need to choose between the 2 if memory serves me right.

I believe you are right about Audyssey recommending wide before height. I don't know if it matters that my pioneer doesn't have Audyssey but Dolby Pro Logic IIx
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post #9 of 20 Old 03-22-2012, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cx3gma View Post

Makes sense. L and R are really wide apart but would it be OK to make the middle ones height channel if they are about 7 feet away from the front speakers? As for moving a couch, i am allowed (no wife factor ) but will 1-2 feet help? Because anything more and will probably be too close to 135' screen not to mention loosing space.

When you mention the 'middle ones', do you mean the speakers with the arrows pointed at them? To be honest, I wasn't sure what those were for exactly when I looked first looked at the photo; I'm assuming that's the proposed location you're installing the speakers? If that's the case, that seems too far in front for a typical front height setup.

What's your ceiling height? And do you have the option of installing the front heights directly above your front speakers?
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post #10 of 20 Old 03-22-2012, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cx3gma View Post

I believe you are right about Audyssey recommending wide before height. I don't know if it matters that my pioneer doesn't have Audyssey but Dolby Pro Logic IIx

If your receiver doesn't have Audyssey DSX then there is no such thing as front wides...... PLIIz uses front height speakers.

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post #11 of 20 Old 03-23-2012, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

If your receiver doesn't have Audyssey DSX then there is no such thing as front wides...... PLIIz uses front height speakers.

It doesn't have DSX. I looked up and PLIIz supposed to support just heights but per manual (and marking in the back of vsx-1121-k) it does front wides also. Either way, as suggested in this thread, wides do not make sense anyway because my L & R are going to be spread wide apart.
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post #12 of 20 Old 03-23-2012, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tezster View Post

When you mention the 'middle ones', do you mean the speakers with the arrows pointed at them? To be honest, I wasn't sure what those were for exactly when I looked first looked at the photo; I'm assuming that's the proposed location you're installing the speakers? If that's the case, that seems too far in front for a typical front height setup.

What's your ceiling height? And do you have the option of installing the front heights directly above your front speakers?

yes speakers with the arrows. I just posted more pictures of the actual room to make more sense. Ceiling is 8 feet near corners and 10 feet where front R & L are going to be. I do have an option to put them directly above R & L (polk monitor 70 towers) or I could put the height speakers above towers but slightly wider apart if I mount them on the side wall/ceiling.
The "middle" speaker wiring was supposed to be for surrounds to leave room for surround backs all the way at the back of the room by the sectional but after reading, this seems to be a bad 7.1 setup (right?) so that is why I am considering 5.1 + front heights.
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post #13 of 20 Old 03-23-2012, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by cx3gma View Post

So I guess you are saying it's OK to designate middle channels as height even though they are going to be 7 feet away from L and R speakers as long as they are going to be high up. Either way wide seems to be worse option.

I don't know if Wides would be a worse option; I just think you'd get a more noticeable effect with Heights.

There are various recommendations for Height speaker placement: some say directly above the L/R mains, others say higher and wider than the mains, and so on. In my experience, placing them high up on the front wall tends to yield more of a taller soundstage than overhead imaging. Moving them closer to the listener gives more of the "above you" impression.

Since there are no standards for height speaker placement, you're free to do what sounds best in your room.

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post #14 of 20 Old 03-24-2012, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

I don't know if Wides would be a worse option; I just think you'd get a more noticeable effect with Heights.

There are various recommendations for Height speaker placement: some say directly above the L/R mains, others say higher and wider than the mains, and so on. In my experience, placing them high up on the front wall tends to yield more of a taller soundstage than overhead imaging. Moving them closer to the listener gives more of the "above you" impression.

Since there are no standards for height speaker placement, you're free to do what sounds best in your room.

Thanks, I will try and experiment.
Could you take a look at my horrible drawing of the floor plan one more time and see if designating "middle" speakers (with arrows pointing) as surrounds and the ones all the way in the back on the side walls as surround backs would be worth trying or that is just too wrong to even consider?
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post #15 of 20 Old 03-25-2012, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cx3gma View Post

Could you take a look at my horrible drawing of the floor plan one more time and see if designating "middle" speakers (with arrows pointing) as surrounds and the ones all the way in the back on the side walls as surround backs would be worth trying or that is just too wrong to even consider?

If you mapped the surround and surround-back channels to your speaker locations, then sounds intended to come from your sides will instead come from in front of you and sounds intended to come from behind will instead come from the sides. Not sure why you'd want directionality screwed up that way.

Your current plan (surrounds + heights) sounds like a better use of those speaker locations. Now, if you ever decide to move the seating in-line with those side speakers.....

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post #16 of 20 Old 03-25-2012, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cx3gma View Post

As for moving a couch, i am allowed (no wife factor ) but will 1-2 feet help? Because anything more and will probably be too close to 135' screen not to mention loosing space.

I was in a similar situation, and decided to go with rear surrounds. Like you, I could only move my couch 2 ft. away from the back wall, but I have been very happy with the setup.

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post #17 of 20 Old 03-26-2012, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. I will try front heights. My room is now 90% done so I will write review soon enough.
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post #18 of 20 Old 03-26-2012, 10:40 PM
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According to Audyssey, front height speakers should be at a 45 degree angle, pointing down at the listener. This would suggest that you should put them on the ceiling at whatever point achieves this angle, then with calibration (auto or manual) the receiver would compensate for the difference in distance between your fronts and front heights. This way you have truly front height speakers, instead of front a-little-higher.

But, they go on in that link to suggest that nonetheless it's best to just put them as high as possible on the front wall regardless of the angle. Just point them at the listener. This gives better coverage, which I think makes sense, it's more likely to be pointing at everyone in the room to matter where they are.

Personally, if I wasn't worried about having a narrow sweet spot, I'd go with the 45 degree placement. Looks like that sofa is the only listening spot you need to worry about anyway.
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post #19 of 20 Old 03-27-2012, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Airion View Post

According to Audyssey, front height speakers should be at a 45 degree angle, pointing down at the listener. This would suggest that you should put them on the ceiling at whatever point achieves this angle, then with calibration (auto or manual) the receiver would compensate for the difference in distance between your fronts and front heights. This way you have truly front height speakers, instead of front a-little-higher.

But, they go on in that link to suggest that nonetheless it's best to just put them as high as possible on the front wall regardless of the angle. Just point them at the listener. This gives better coverage, which I think makes sense, it's more likely to be pointing at everyone in the room to matter where they are.

Personally, if I wasn't worried about having a narrow sweet spot, I'd go with the 45 degree placement. Looks like that sofa is the only listening spot you need to worry about anyway.

I'm going to mount them in the ceiling, angling down to the listening spot. I don't know how important it is to match front heights with the front speakers. I have polk monitor 70s for fronts, cs2 for center and I have 2 pairs of monitor 40s as well as 2 polk rm6750 satellites. It will be a challenge to ceiling mount M 40s that way. Thinking about using satellites for heights but they won't match with R&L as well as M40 s.
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post #20 of 20 Old 06-09-2012, 12:57 AM
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How did this end up turning out for you? I have recently began to give the front height option some consideration...

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