Tower speakers with powered subs setup question - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 04-01-2012, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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This is going to sound like a totally newbie question, but, after years of dealing with HTIAB speakers, I have this set of real, genuine speakers. The only problem is that I have no clue what I'm doing when it comes to the fronts, which have built in powered subs. There's also two sets of speaker terminals on it, so, my short question is this: what do I do to make sure I'm getting the full use out of this thing? I'm sure it's not just a matter of hooking it up to the receiver and plugging it in, so any help you guys can give me is surely appreciated.

I managed to find this picture of this model online, and here's my main question: in the middle (to the left of the volume and crossover knobs), there's two jacks. It says processor above it, but there's one in and one out--I'm assuming that I can just hook a subwoofer cable from my receiver's pre-out into the "in" onto this speaker. If that's correct, then what is the "out" for?

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post #2 of 19 Old 04-01-2012, 02:21 PM
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Do you have a larger version of your picture?

Do you have a separate subwoofer, too?

IMO, if you do not have a subwoofer, the best way to utilize powered towers is to connect them conventionally the same way that you would connect any other speaker and configure your AVR as having NO SUB connected. This will properly route the LFE channel info into the front channels. If your AVR features auto-calibration software, and you wire the speakers this way, the AVR will correctly detect that you have no subwoofer connected and the LFE channel will be routed appropriately into the front channels.

By connecting the speakers and configuring the AVR this way, you will allow the speakers to spread the mix of bass frequencies that they are sent according to the way they were designed.

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post #3 of 19 Old 04-01-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brettgallman View Post

If that's correct, then what is the "out" for?

In addition to a bigger picture, what is the make and model # of the speakers? This may be so you can daisy chain the low level input from one sub to the other. But that's just a guess without having the make and model # to look up more info.

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post #4 of 19 Old 04-01-2012, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Ack, sorry, meant to put the speaker info in the first post: they're Eosone RSF-1000s. I understand that these were quite popular over a decade ago, but it's difficult to dig up a lot of info on them now.

It's my understanding that there are 2 subs in it: one is powered, while the other is passive.

Also, I do have a separate subwoofer. My AVR has two sub outputs as well.
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post #5 of 19 Old 04-01-2012, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brettgallman View Post

Ack, sorry, meant to put the speaker info in the first post: they're Eosone RSF-1000s. I understand that these were quite popular over a decade ago, but it's difficult to dig up a lot of info on them now.

It's my understanding that there are 2 subs in it: one is powered, while the other is passive.

Also, I do have a separate subwoofer. My AVR has two sub outputs as well.

Ah, yes, these speakers are a bit odd. If I recall correctly (and correct me if I am wrong), the binding straps and extra pair of binding posts control whether the rear driver(s) operate or not. If you remove the binding straps between the posts, and connect the speaker correctly (should be labelled), the rear driver (or drivers) on the speaker will not function and the speaker will operate as a monopole as opposed to a bipole.

I believe there should also be a way to connect the speaker conventionally as well as connecting it with the subwoofer section uncoupled from the upper section and connected via a line-level pre-out connection. But, unlike what one might expect, that is not what the binding straps are there for. There may be a switch or setting. Please post a bigger picture that shows everything that is back there, clearly.

And, yes, as cel4145 pointed out, that output is for daisy chaining the speakers subwoofer sections.

Do you have the manual, brettgallman? I used to have a copy of it on my computer but I looked for it for someone several months ago and was unable to find it. I think it might be on an old hard drive of mine. I could possibly be motivated to look for it.

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post #6 of 19 Old 04-01-2012, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Unfortunately, no, I don't have a manual. Never found one posted online either, I suppose due to the age of the speakers.

Yes, you're right--the bottom part of the setup is no problem, with the binding posts and all that--that much I have figured out. It's just this top part with the sub that I *think* I have figured out, but I just want some confirmation before I go about hooking it up.

Anyway, here's a bigger picture:




It's my understanding that I can just use a sub cable into the "input" in one of these that'll come from the AVR. Then daisy chain from there (meaning a cord running from the "out" of one to the "in" of the other?)

Also, that switch on the far left: should that be set to "speaker" or "processor?"
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post #7 of 19 Old 04-02-2012, 06:43 AM
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Yes, run a sub cable from the avr to the input on the speaker. You can then daisy chain or use a splitter to run a cable to the the second speaker. From what I can tell, if you wish to use the powered subs as just described, you need the switch set to processor.
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post #8 of 19 Old 04-02-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brettgallman View Post

Also, that switch on the far left: should that be set to "speaker" or "processor?"

That switch uncouples the speaker's subwoofer (lower) section from the speaker (upper) section.

Set the switch to to 'Speaker' and the subwoofer section of the speaker is fed the same signal that is sent to the speaker from the AVR's speaker outputs via speaker wire. With this setting set to 'Speaker', the speaker itself dictates which frequencies are sent to the subwoofer (lower) and which frequencies are sent the speaker (upper) section based upon an internal crossover between the subwoofer section and the rest of the speaker.

Set the switch to 'Processor' and the subwoofer (lower) section of the speaker becomes completely uncoupled from the speaker (upper) section. Only the upper section will operate off of the speaker wire connection. The subwoofer section must then be fed a line-level connection from either an AVR's subwoofer output or an AVR's speaker channel pre-outs. The speaker still dictates what frequencies are reproduced by each section based upon the high and low pass filters in the crossover between the subwoofer section and the rest of the speaker.


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Originally Posted by brettgallman View Post

It's my understanding that I can just use a sub cable into the "input" in one of these that'll come from the AVR. Then daisy chain from there (meaning a cord running from the "out" of one to the "in" of the other?)

You seem dead-set on doing this but I would highly recommend against it with this particular speaker and a modern AVR. The best way to connect this speaker to a modern AVR, IMO, is to use a speaker-level connection, ONLY, with the switch set to 'Speaker'. This will allow the speaker to parse the frequencies it is sent between the subwoofer and speaker section based upon the way it was engineered.

If you try connecting the speaker's subwoofer section to an AVR's subwoofer output via a line-level connection, and use the 'Processor' setting, and then rely upon the AVR to bass manage what is sent to the speaker's upper section via a speaker-level connection and to the lower section via the line-level connection to the AVR's subwoofer output, you are going to run in to conflicts between the high and low pass filters present in the speaker and the AVR's crossover filters.

These speakers were available before bass managing Dolby Digital AVRs were the norm. The 'Processor' setting was not intended to be used with such equipment. Again, I would highly recommend you simply connect it with speaker wire as a single speaker unit and set the switch to 'Speaker'. It will function fine configured this way.

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post #9 of 19 Old 04-02-2012, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

You seem dead-set on doing this...

Well, I wouldn't say that; it was just my assumption as to how one might go about doing it. I posted here to make sure there wasn't a better way.

So even if I hook it up through regular speaker wire, I'll still get use out of the powered sub? I'm just so used to using line inputs, and I think the only sub I ever had that was wired like a conventional speaker was passive, so I might just be wrongfully mixing things up. If hooking it up this way is the best way, this is what I'll try.

This is all making much more sense than it did before, at any rate.
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post #10 of 19 Old 04-02-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brettgallman View Post

So even if I hook it up through regular speaker wire, I'll still get use out of the powered sub?

Yes, if you connect with only speaker wire, and set that switch to 'Speaker', then the powered sub will be utilized. You will still need to adjust the volume setting so that the powered subwoofer blends well with the upper, unpowered portion of the speaker.

Now, exactly how you would want to configure your AVR and utilize your "true" subwoofer at this point would depend upon a few things. What is your subwoofer, exactly?

Be aware that with only a speaker-level connection, without connecting and configuring things unconventionally, the speakers will only be sent the front channels' information. The LFE channel will only be sent to your "true" subwoofer. There is a way to get the LFE channel to the speakers' subs, too, but it involves either wiring and configuring the AVR unconventionally or connecting your AVR's sub out or front channel pre-outs to the speakers' sub's RCA inputs and using that switch's 'Processor' setting.

But, again, I would caution against using the RCA input and wiring these speakers with the 'Processor' configuration as you will likely create conflicts between the speaker's high and low-pass filters and the AVR's crossover's filters.

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post #11 of 19 Old 04-02-2012, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, my other sub is just some powered thing that came with an Onkyo HTIAB, I believe. I was still planning on using it but maybe moving it to another part of the room (I know LFE isn't directional, but I've seen some people say that moving your subs around a room can create a better effect).

Would a combination of that normal sub and the 2 subs in the fronts be okay? I imagine I'll be getting some redundant LFE that way, but I don't think that'd really be much of a problem.
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post #12 of 19 Old 04-02-2012, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brettgallman View Post

Oh, my other sub is just some powered thing that came with an Onkyo HTIAB, I believe. I was still planning on using it but maybe moving it to another part of the room (I know LFE isn't directional, but I've seen some people say that moving your subs around a room can create a better effect).

Would a combination of that normal sub and the 2 subs in the fronts be okay? I imagine I'll be getting some redundant LFE that way, but I don't think that'd really be much of a problem.

Ditch the Onkyo HTIAB sub. Even though the subs in the speakers are not really true, freestanding subwoofers, they are much more capable and of much higher quality than that HTIAB sub. Connect the speakers with a speaker-level connection, setting the input switch on each speaker to 'Speaker'. Configure your AVR as having NO SUB connected. This will reroute the LFE channel info into the front channels. You won't drop anything. If your AVR features some sort of auto-calibration software, it will correctly detect that your AVR has no subwoofer connected and will properly configure your settings accordingly.

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post #13 of 19 Old 04-02-2012, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Gotcha, will give it a shot. Thanks again.
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post #14 of 19 Old 04-03-2012, 02:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, tried that, got nothing from the subs. I got to thinking that maybe I have the conventional speakers wired incorrectly. As you know, there are two sets of binding posts, but I have the little gold plate thing connecting them, and the guy I bought these off of said to just wire the bottom sets and keep the plate connected. From what I can gather, this controls the rear drivers more so than the subs, but I just wanted to make sure.

Also, found this picture online of the speakers that might further help:



You didn't happen to find a manual on your computer, did you?
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post #15 of 19 Old 04-03-2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brettgallman View Post

Okay, tried that, got nothing from the subs.

Hmmmm. Plugged them in, right? Turned them ON? And you set the switch to 'Speaker'? Did you configure your AVR as having NO SUB connected? What material did you use to test them? A movie? Music?


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Originally Posted by brettgallman View Post

I got to thinking that maybe I have the conventional speakers wired incorrectly. As you know, there are two sets of binding posts, but I have the little gold plate thing connecting them, and the guy I bought these off of said to just wire the bottom sets and keep the plate connected. From what I can gather, this controls the rear drivers more so than the subs, but I just wanted to make sure.

Yep, this is correct. The binding straps connect the rear drivers. Take them out and you convert the speaker from a bipole speaker to a monopole speaker. Did the upper speaker portion(s) work OK?

You can try connecting something (either your AVR's sub out or a front channel pre-out) to the RCA input and setting the switch to 'Processor' to see if the subs are operating.


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Originally Posted by brettgallman View Post

You didn't happen to find a manual on your computer, did you?

No, it's not on my current computer. If I still have it somewhere it's on an old hard drive that's packed away in a box of old computer stuff.

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post #16 of 19 Old 04-03-2012, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep, everything is connected and turned on correctly. I tried the line in and got nothing from either a movie or the receiver's test signals.

What I did get was some definite rumbling when I turned the speakers on. If I fiddled with the volume knobs, I could hear some distinct increases (when I got about halfway up the knob, it started rattling) so the subs definitely work. But after a while, they'd just go cold and the LED would go red for standby, and nothing could wake them up. My Onkyo setup wouldn't even detect a sub. I'm guessing there's something wrong with the actual inputs or something?
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post #17 of 19 Old 04-03-2012, 10:46 PM
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I realize this is not germane to the discussion at hand, but are those rear-facing tweeters? Are those common in high end speakers? I've never seen those before. Sorry, they just seem odd... what's the advantage?
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post #18 of 19 Old 04-04-2012, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by G-Bull View Post

I realize this is not germane to the discussion at hand, but are those rear-facing tweeters? Are those common in high end speakers? I've never seen those before. Sorry, they just seem odd... what's the advantage?

They're bipolar speakers.

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post #19 of 19 Old 04-04-2012, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Bull View Post

I realize this is not germane to the discussion at hand, but are those rear-facing tweeters? Are those common in high end speakers? I've never seen those before. Sorry, they just seem odd... what's the advantage?

As Siva said, they a bipolar speakers. My old Snell Type Ds had rear-facing tweeters. The Snells had a switch that let you turn them on or off depending on speaker placement.
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