what can i do to improve?(photos) - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 25 Old 04-10-2012, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So to start off i am a young man that is poor and i have always been into stereos but now that me and my wife just moved into our first house i have started building my first home theater system. My system includes the following

receiver- Yamaha htr-5760
front speakers- rti 150
sub- definitive technology power sub 1000 10' sub with a 10' bass radiator
center- CSi A4
left rear- (this is where i ran out of money lol) 1 FXi A6
right rear-RT15i
monster cable the thick flat white ones for the speakers.
optical cable from blu ray to receiver
dont mind the wires im moving the center below the tv
This system is half for movies half for music.
I asked so many questions that i had to go back and number them all so i could get them all answered.
(1)So what can I do to improve my experience?(2) I am thinking that getting another FXi A6 surround would probably be a good idea.(3)but what about going to 6.1 or 7.1(4) and can i make small steps to get there? (5) and it seems like 6.1 was just a phase but is bridging the back rear 2 surrounds to a center channel or a FXi A6 is that a good idea for a temporary improvement? because ideally 3 more FXi A6 would be best i would imigine but is(6) that my only option? I think i eventually want to upgrade my center to a CSI A6 thats why i am asking about bridging the rear surrounds to a center because i will have a CSi A4 left over if i upgrade.(7) Also i have heard that the rti 150 get a lot better with more power, i have been looking up differnt amps on Google but they are all vary expensive. It seems like a 2 or 3 channel amp for my 2 fronts or 3 fronts seems to be the best bet leaving the receiver to power the rear surrounds.(8) Can someone point me in the dirrection of a best bang for your buck 3 channel amp? (9)And how much of an improvement will adding a amp to the rti 150 actually give me?

the pictures are bad but the FXi A6 is in the right corner and i am thinking about putting the back center in that den or the 2 back surrounds in the den.(10) I also don't think i have the speakers position as well as they could be for 5.1 or a future 6 or 7.1 so please help and THANKS


-CHRIS
_______________________________
video
tv----2010 Samsung 8000 series Hz 3d TV
blu ray BDP-BX58
ps3 1st edition with broken hdmi pin so its hooked up thur component video so 1080p but no 3d (pm me if you have any ideas how to fix this)
LL
LL
LL
hiphopfeinds is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 Old 04-10-2012, 03:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
kiwi2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 144
First and foremost you could get huge improvements from better speaker placement!
kiwi2 is offline  
post #3 of 25 Old 04-10-2012, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

First and foremost you could get huge improvements from better speaker placement!

yea i think i am going to switch the av rack and the left speaker and put the center below the tv, should i do anything else?
hiphopfeinds is offline  
post #4 of 25 Old 04-11-2012, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
yea i feel that you are right both setups will allow for speakers to be placed in the room behind it. and if i move it i can put the 2 rear surrounds in the dining room
hiphopfeinds is offline  
post #5 of 25 Old 04-11-2012, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i am thinking of moving my living room 90 degrees putting the tv in front of the window but im thinking that i can put my back surrounds in the dining room in the included pic. what do you guys think?
LL
hiphopfeinds is offline  
post #6 of 25 Old 04-11-2012, 03:35 PM
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 211
+1 Dragon...

Fireplaces,.... Just this morning, I saw a live spot on the local fox affiliate in a designer home and the ~42" flat panel display was 7 feet to the top, right above the fireplace,....yep,....live with that for a while.

Symmetrical layout is of paramount importance. Oftentimes it takes skewing the entire room, on a 45 degree angle to address the common asymmetry associated with many typical residential living spaces,...if one is so inclined (pun intended).

HipHopFiend, assure your mains are farther forward than any other item in their immediate surroundings, toe them in to where they both point directly at the center position between the mains. This generally improves the frequency response, upper octave extension and should facilitate best imaging.

Don't get all caught up in any of the BS in high end cabling, etc, merely focus on optimizing your speakers to your space. This is where the big gains are to be had, acoustic optimization of loudspeakers to their room. When it's time to begin spending money on upgrades etc, focus again on acoustics/subwoofers/loudspeakers, and their optimization.


Quote:


(1)So what can I do to improve my experience?(2) I am thinking that getting another FXi A6 surround would probably be a good idea.(3)but what about going to 6.1 or 7.1(4) and can i make small steps to get there? (5) and it seems like 6.1 was just a phase but is bridging the back rear 2 surrounds to a center channel or a FXi A6 is that a good idea for a temporary improvement? because ideally 3 more FXi A6 would be best i would imigine but is(6) that my only option? I think i eventually want to upgrade my center to a CSI A6 thats why i am asking about bridging the rear surrounds to a center because i will have a CSi A4 left over if i upgrade.(7) Also i have heard that the rti 150 get a lot better with more power, i have been looking up differnt amps on Google but they are all vary expensive. It seems like a 2 or 3 channel amp for my 2 fronts or 3 fronts seems to be the best bet leaving the receiver to power the rear surrounds.(8) Can someone point me in the dirrection of a best bang for your buck 3 channel amp? (9)And how much of an improvement will adding a amp to the rti 150 actually give me?

the pictures are bad but the FXi A6 is in the right corner and i am thinking about putting the back center in that den or the 2 back surrounds in the den.(10) I also don't think i have the speakers position as well as they could be for 5.1 or a future 6 or 7.1 so please help and THANKS

You need a highly capable center channel. Ideally, all three fronts should be identical, and placed evenly in a horizontal plane across the front. Don't sweat the rears until your fronts and sub system is sorted out. Obviously you want your rears placed properly etc, however they're of little consequence until your mains (LCR's) are squared away, and you've got some solid foundation with regard to a subwoofer system.

The first thing I'd do, is really examine your geometry of the entire room, and be willing to adjust the entire space around the LCR optimized placement. Second, a good sorting out of your subwoofer with regard to it's equalization in both the frequency and time domain. Considering some very simple acoustic treatments, home made and very little investment will help the acoustic environment of the room, ie bass traps. Taking things to the next level would include some measurement software, and beginning to explore the reflected energy in the room, and exactly how it impacts the listening position.

Yes, possessing ample power to the front speakers is very important. Emotiva has quite a decent product line, for fanless, multichannel, 2 channel, mono amps. You could also go pro audio route like QSC, Behringer Crown, etc., and mitigate any potential fan noise with acoustic hush box etc.

Adding outboard amplification should be a fairly noticable upgrade. Not a "blow you away" type scenario, however a nice and welcome change. An AVR's current capability is quite taxed at levels much lower and modest than one would anticipate IMO.


Best of luck and I hope this helps...my 2 cents...

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is offline  
post #7 of 25 Old 04-12-2012, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
wow foh thanks you really know your stuff thats the best answer to date and has giving me alot of things to think about. I have alot of research to do because i have a really simple understanding of speaker placement and acoustics.
hiphopfeinds is offline  
post #8 of 25 Old 04-12-2012, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
ok so if i keep the current setup and move the center to below my tv and switch the av rack and speaker and pull them out a little bit from the wall. So if i do that compared to moving the room to having the tv in front of the window. (which i can do no prob we have a tv stand in the bedroom so i will switch and wall mount bedroom tv and bring the tv stand to infront of the living room window) Is having the tv in front of the window really a better room layout?
hiphopfeinds is offline  
post #9 of 25 Old 04-12-2012, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
ok so after re reading all the post it looks like i need to have my LCR a equal height from the ground...? since the fronts are like 4 ft tall and them having the mids/highs towards the top means i should have my center equal height to the mids/highs???
hiphopfeinds is offline  
post #10 of 25 Old 04-12-2012, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
so i take its best for the surrounds to be at ear level too?? im thinking about putting a surround here. this is assuming that i move the room around with the tv in the front of the window. The other surround i was thinking could go on the wall or a stand but i prefer wall so i dont have to buy stands, but i was thinking i could hang the other surround where the right speaker is on the wall i might draw this out to make it easyer for everyone to imagine i uploaded another image of were the right surround would hang on the wall what do you guys think???
LL
LL
hiphopfeinds is offline  
post #11 of 25 Old 04-12-2012, 08:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
kiwi2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiphopfeinds View Post

ok so if i keep the current setup and move the center to below my tv and switch the av rack and speaker and pull them out a little bit from the wall.

Trying that for a start is better than nothing. Try it and take note of any improvements you may notice.


Quote:


So if i do that compared to moving the room to having the tv in front of the window... ...Is having the tv in front of the window really a better room layout?

It depends and is something you will just have to try for yourself and see what happens sound quality wise. No one can say for sure it will be better as there are too many other variables involved. Though in theory it should be better from looking at your photos, as it would appear that the setup will be on the short wall and firing down the length of the room into the kitchen. "Theoretically" it should be easier to get a smoother frequency response but only trial and error will tell.

Now the only thing I would recommend for you to purchase at this stage is one of the higher levels over the free version of TrueRTA ... http://www.trueaudio.com/rta_abt1.htm

The reason why... is that it will speed up your learning curve of understanding your room's frequency response relative to where you place the speakers and your LP. I have found TrueRTA to be the easiest and quickest way to measure the room's frequency response. I have just been using my AVR's calibration mic plugged into the sound card on my PC. As my PC is already connected to my AVR for music playback I can use TrueRTA to generate pink noise over my system for the measurements. (otherwise you just need a CD with pink noise to play on your system)

Having this will allow you to measure and record exactly what is happening each time you move the speakers and/or LP to a different location in the room. The one combination that has the least peaks and dips in the frequency response in the lower Hz range will be part of the answer to "what is best?" No one else can answer that question for you.

Of course frequency response is only the first thing to tackle. To complicate matters it also needs to be juggled with how close speakers may end up near walls with with their reflections and the geometry of the speakers relative to the LP. But the improvements in sound quality from going through all of this is well worth the effort. Especially considering these improvements won't cost a cent.

Quote:


ok so after re reading all the post it looks like i need to have my LCR a equal height from the ground...? since the fronts are like 4 ft tall and them having the mids/highs towards the top means i should have my center equal height to the mids/highs???

The standard answer is that the center should be close to the same height as the tweeters of the L/R. However I have found I like it best with the center a little bit above the L/R. (like a foot or so) The reason why is that when listening to just 2ch stereo, center vocals seem to radiate out from above the line of my L/R. So that is where I like to place my center. I definitely wouldn't want it to much higher up or not below the drivers of the L/R.
kiwi2 is offline  
post #12 of 25 Old 04-12-2012, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
ok bad news the couch does not allow the room to be moved so i will be switching the av rack and left speaker and raising the tv up to put the center on the mantel. Now im thinking about moving the rear surrounds down to ear level and bringing them forward a little bit. the left surround would be behind the window on the wall right out of the photo. and the right surround would go on the wall to the right of the walkway to the kitchen at ear level. refer to original post to see pics of the full room the surrounds would be equal with the listeners instead of being behind them
LL
hiphopfeinds is offline  
post #13 of 25 Old 04-13-2012, 02:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
kiwi2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonfyr View Post

You do NOT need to buy a fancy version of TrueRTA, as fancy frequency response curves will tell you nothing except that you have speaker-room induces comb filtering.
It WILL be present!

And it will show major suck-outs and overall trends. For example just recently I moved into a new house and had to start from scratch with a room. The very first reading I took after my first attempt at placement showed a huge suck-out between 60 to 150 Hz. It was very obvious as my system sounded boring, unsurprisingly.

Attachment 243415

With the help of TrueRTA I have been able work on placement and setup to close that gap down. Things are starting to sound much better now.

Attachment 243416


Quote:


RoomEQWizard does more than TrueRTA anyway in that it includes time-domain tools, and its free!

I have RoomEQWizard as well and find it far less user-friendly with it's steep learning curve and more complicated setup. TrueRTA was in comparison up and running to a useful level almost straight away. Hence why I would recommend it to someone new to all of this. Well worth the price of a few CDs.

Quote:


And your problems exist 'more' in the time domain than in the frequency domain!

With his current placement maybe. If he tries a more conventionally accepted placement, then frequency response in the lower Hz range might be the biggest problem to tackle first.
LL
LL
kiwi2 is offline  
post #14 of 25 Old 04-13-2012, 04:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
kiwi2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonfyr View Post

which requires the use of time domain tools, in particular the ETC response

Does RoomEQWizard v5 do ETC ?
kiwi2 is offline  
post #15 of 25 Old 04-13-2012, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
ok what about removing the wooden top part of the mantel, and even the bottom part and putting the fronts there, either on the wodden platform of the mantel or removing that and putting them on the floor?? I think this would provide a much more symmetrical environment??? I would then mount that shelf that my center sits on where the mantel is at this momment which would put them in line with the LR The front LR would be toed in so they would be firing to the center of the couch right at me. Now i still consider myself a newb and have a hard time understanding the really technical stuff (but i love it) but from what i have been reading it seems like this is a good idea and im kinda exited about it since i get to brake out my hammer and do some demolition
LL
hiphopfeinds is offline  
post #16 of 25 Old 04-13-2012, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
its our house....................
hiphopfeinds is offline  
post #17 of 25 Old 04-13-2012, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
well im just trying to work with what i got...... now i guess all i can do i switch the av rack and left speaker and put the center below the tv on the mantel and get stands for the surrounds
hiphopfeinds is offline  
post #18 of 25 Old 04-14-2012, 03:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
kiwi2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiphopfeinds View Post

ok bad news the couch does not allow the room to be moved

So get a different couch.
kiwi2 is offline  
post #19 of 25 Old 04-14-2012, 09:00 AM
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 211
We realize you've got to work with what you've got. The cool element here, is that you recognize some shortcomings, and you started a thread soliciting advice to address your particular scenario. ...That's cool, and puts you worlds ahead of many individuals that neither care, nor would they even attempt to address any of these issues we're discussing. So yeah, you'll get there, what you can, when you can.


If you could detail the floorplan a bit more, programs such as this can aid in that regard, allowing us to get a better idea of all the options and everything you've got to work with. Perhaps someone will see an option otherwise missed.



Good luck

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is offline  
post #20 of 25 Old 04-14-2012, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i went to the site and measured my room its 16' x 16' 10'' in the app it had squares so everything is to scale but after i saved it the squares were gone and it doesn't look as good that blue opening is a window btw i don't know if this helps but its worth a shot
LL
hiphopfeinds is offline  
post #21 of 25 Old 04-15-2012, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
did everything to the front that was recommended. I am looking for stands for my surrounds.
LL
hiphopfeinds is offline  
post #22 of 25 Old 04-15-2012, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
it seems like there are alot of good deals of tower speakers especially in the rt series. If i found a pair of towers in the rt series would it sound equal to or better then what i have now or a pair of fx a6 surrounds. Just guessing but it seems like tower speakers are the best so i would imagine that the only reason more people dont use them as surround is space/money. I also think it would look kinda good to have a pair of tower speakers near the back of the room on either side of the couch. o already got wife approval so I hope its an equal or better option. I would have them facing at me for viewing and when not watching probably put them flush against the couch like in the picture
LL
hiphopfeinds is offline  
post #23 of 25 Old 04-15-2012, 01:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
kiwi2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiphopfeinds View Post

did everything to the front that was recommended. I am looking for stands for my surrounds.

Well that looks better. Does it sound better to you?


Quote:


Just guessing but it seems like tower speakers are the best so i would imagine that the only reason more people dont use them as surround is space/money.

If someone has good subs in their room that covers 30 to 60 Hz well, then all bets are off. I myself prefer better quality 2-way bookshelf speakers over lower quality towers of the same dollar value. But each to their own. If you think you would prefer the look of towers, then get towers.
kiwi2 is offline  
post #24 of 25 Old 04-15-2012, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiphopfeinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
yea it does sound better. i got this in another thread but im thinking of moving the rti 150s to the back and getting something better for the front. but whats better i dont know what models match up with the rti as surrounds?
hiphopfeinds is offline  
post #25 of 25 Old 04-16-2012, 12:37 AM
Advanced Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 516
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 78
One thing you could try is to move the audio rack over to the right side of the fireplace, at a distance that mimics the wall on the left side. This would tend to equalize the speaker/"wall" interaction (not perfectly, but much better than the current layout).

Also, it would give you about two feet of play in the speaker position on each side, which would allow you to, hopefully, get better imaging.
RayGuy is offline  
Reply Audio theory, Setup and Chat

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off