Turntable Setup...What do I need to suit my tastes? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 47 Old 06-01-2012, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

Not hijack this thread, but I have a question for the TT aficionado's here.

My integrated has an MC preamp, but not an MM. Are there any budget TT's you know of which can use an MC cartridge? All the budget TT's I have scoped out come With MM cartridges. Or are MC cartridges not really a good idea with budget turntables?

I checked it out, and most MC matching transformers have 4 female RCA connectors on them. That means that using them in reverse is just a matter of moving the cables around.

If you hook a MC-> MM matching transformer up backwards, it is an effective MM -> MC matching transformer.

Now the transformer may have some coloration, or not so much. YMMV.

But, you asked the question and here is a technically sound answer. ;-)
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post #32 of 47 Old 06-01-2012, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mikejungle View Post

Hi, I've decided to go with pro-ject's new debut carbon turntable and I had several questions regarding what I should do and buy. I'm an absolute newb to vinyl, but i've been wanting to get into it for a while. As a preface to the entire thread, I want to state that, as a bass player, I really like pronounced bass. I want it to be powerful and punchy and hate muddy. In fact, I like nice bright bass.

If by muddy bass you mean bass with a lot of power in the lower registers (e.g. low string on a 5 string bass) then vinyl will be perfect for you because its pretty much technically impossible for vinyl to be accurate that low. It's too close to the tone arm resonance unless the tone arm is highly damped (as in a viscous damper).

OTOH, if you like accurate bass, stick with digital.
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post #33 of 47 Old 06-01-2012, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mikejungle View Post

Hey Phase700B, what model B&W speakers do you use?
And what do you mean by "brand name"? Is b&w not a brand name? what about kef?

I honestly could care less about how my home theater setup sounds at this point; i will worry about it later when i'm richer. I just want something functional for that.
My main emphasis is getting my music to sound as good/close to my preference as i can within my budget.

And I'm ok with used gear as long as it's not excruciatingly hard to find.

Oh, and i might have left this out, but i abhor muddy bass, but I love punchy. Like when you feel the kick drum in your chest.

If that is the case, you'd do a lot better sticking with digital and getting speakers that do right down to 32 Hz. That often means spending upwards of $500 on a subwoofer.
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post #34 of 47 Old 06-01-2012, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I checked it out, and most MC matching transformers have 4 female RCA connectors on them. That means that using them in reverse is just a matter of moving the cables around.

If you hook a MC-> MM matching transformer up backwards, it is an effective MM -> MC matching transformer.

Now the transformer may have some coloration, or not so much. YMMV.

But, you asked the question and here is a technically sound answer. ;-)

Interesting thought, but that really wouldn't be a solution in my case, since the phono preamp section is built into the integrated (so only access to the stereo MC inputs).

- Rutgar


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post #35 of 47 Old 06-01-2012, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

I guess that does reveal my age!

Yeah, it appears that many people aren't fans of MC cartridges. If it wasn't for the fact that my integrated only has an MC phono preamp, I would simply stick to an MM. In the end, I may end up going with an MM anyway, but it seems like a waste to not use the built-in phono preamp, I already have.

As to if it is a waste, would depend on how good that built-in MC phono pre is.
If buying a TT w/MM cartridge and a separate MM phono pre would result in better quality sound its a no brainer.
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post #36 of 47 Old 06-01-2012, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

I guess that does reveal my age!

Yeah, it appears that many people aren't fans of MC cartridges. If it wasn't for the fact that my integrated only has an MC phono preamp, I would simply stick to an MM. In the end, I may end up going with an MM anyway, but it seems like a waste to not use the built-in phono preamp, I already have.

What integrated amp do you have?
Some of the finest cartridges are MC.
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post #37 of 47 Old 06-01-2012, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

Interesting thought, but that really wouldn't be a solution in my case, since the phono preamp section is built into the integrated (so only access to the stereo MC inputs).

I don't get that. The transformer plugs between the turntable and the MC phono input. It doesn't matter that the MC preamp is inside the receiver.
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post #38 of 47 Old 06-01-2012, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I don't get that. The transformer plugs between the turntable and the MC phono input. It doesn't matter that the MC preamp is inside the receiver.

Isn't it a bit unusual to have a MC only phono stage on a pre-amp. I've mostly seen MM alone or MM/MC.
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post #39 of 47 Old 06-01-2012, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I don't get that. The transformer plugs between the turntable and the MC phono input. It doesn't matter that the MC preamp is inside the receiver.

Ah, okay. I see what you're saying. I thought you were talking about the phono preamp itself.

As you suggested, I would be concerned about adding coloration, or some other unpredictable issue into the signal path.

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post #40 of 47 Old 06-01-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampfox View Post

Isn't it a bit unusual to have a MC only phono stage on a pre-amp. I've mostly seen MM alone or MM/MC.

I think so as well. Seems like an odd configuration.

What it boils down to, is how much money I'm willing to spend on an 'experiment'. If I decide to keep it cheap, then it looks like I will just have to do an additional MM preamp, and buy one of the many budget TT's which come complete with tonearm and cartridge.

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post #41 of 47 Old 06-01-2012, 11:17 AM
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buy one of the many budget TT's which come complete with tonearm and cartridge.

A lot of them come complete with preamp, too. Not the best preamp, by any means, but certainly good enough for your experiment, and you can always upgrade it later.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #42 of 47 Old 06-01-2012, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

I think so as well. Seems like an odd configuration.

What it boils down to, is how much money I'm willing to spend on an 'experiment'. If I decide to keep it cheap, then it looks like I will just have to do an additional MM preamp, and buy one of the many budget TT's which come complete with tonearm and cartridge.

What amp do you have?

You can look into a cartridge upgrade at the time of purchase, it might be a wash if you need to buy a preamp.
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post #43 of 47 Old 06-01-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

I think so as well. Seems like an odd configuration.

What it boils down to, is how much money I'm willing to spend on an 'experiment'. If I decide to keep it cheap, then it looks like I will just have to do an additional MM preamp, and buy one of the many budget TT's which come complete with tonearm and cartridge.

Check this out before you decide on a cartridge. http://cartridge & Tonearm Resonance Frequency
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post #44 of 47 Old 06-04-2012, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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So...this thread seems to have gone off on several tangents; none of which i understand, but i wanted to update it by saying that i went ahead and bought this:

Pro-ject Debut Carbon
MusicHall a15.2 integrated amplifier (over the marantz pm5004)
PSB image b5 speakers

I know that this equipment needs time to break in, but I think i want to return the b5 speakers and by Monitor Audio's rx-1's or, if i can find them used, the rx-2

what do you guys think? i thought the bass was still a little lacking in the b5's.

and although i do appreciate the clarity of digital, i think it's important that i learn to appreciate the warmth of analog.

thanks for all the replies.
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post #45 of 47 Old 06-04-2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejungle View Post

So...this thread seems to have gone off on several tangents; none of which i understand, but i wanted to update it by saying that i went ahead and bought this:

Pro-ject Debut Carbon
MusicHall a15.2 integrated amplifier (over the marantz pm5004)
PSB image b5 speakers

I know that this equipment needs time to break in, but I think i want to return the b5 speakers and by Monitor Audio's rx-1's or, if i can find them used, the rx-2

what do you guys think? i thought the bass was still a little lacking in the b5's.

and although i do appreciate the clarity of digital, i think it's important that i learn to appreciate the warmth of analog.

thanks for all the replies.

The TT, cartridge, and amp will work together and give you the analog experience.
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post #46 of 47 Old 06-04-2012, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejungle View Post

So...this thread seems to have gone off on several tangents; none of which i understand, but i wanted to update it by saying that i went ahead and bought this:

Pro-ject Debut Carbon
MusicHall a15.2 integrated amplifier (over the marantz pm5004)
PSB image b5 speakers

I know that this equipment needs time to break in, but I think i want to return the b5 speakers and by Monitor Audio's rx-1's or, if i can find them used, the rx-2

what do you guys think? i thought the bass was still a little lacking in the b5's.

and although i do appreciate the clarity of digital, i think it's important that i learn to appreciate the warmth of analog.

thanks for all the replies.

As I have zero knowledge of your room, there is no telling how easy or difficult it might be in finding the proper locations for the speakers to sound their best.

IF you have not found the best placement, then you could end up going from speaker~to~speaker~to~speaker and NEVER be satisfied. And I am not saying the PSB is the be all to end all....just that you need to find your starting point.
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post #47 of 47 Old 06-04-2012, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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yeah...finding my starting point is hard.

i think i'm gonna return the b5's and spend the next month or so looking for good used speakers so i can get more bang for my buck.

There are some definitive technology bp2002's up for sale in my area so i may try em out.
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