Are 2 pairs of front speakers bad? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 07-22-2012, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I have them connected via a Impedance matching speaker selector on my AVR. One pair of speakers has more extednded "better" highs than the others, but yet I dont want to get rid of the other speakers.....

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post #2 of 15 Old 07-22-2012, 02:35 PM
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Yes, if driven with the same signals.


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post #3 of 15 Old 07-22-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

I have them connected via a Impedance matching speaker selector on my AVR. One pair of speakers has more extednded "better" highs than the others, but yet I dont want to get rid of the other speakers.....
Get a receiver capable of "Wides" and use the extra pair there. Much better use than as a second set of mains.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."


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post #4 of 15 Old 07-23-2012, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

I have them connected via a Impedance matching speaker selector on my AVR. One pair of speakers has more extednded "better" highs than the others, but yet I dont want to get rid of the other speakers.....

Raymond, after debating issues related to audio purity with you on several occastions, I can't believe that you're listening to a kluge like this.



I recommend repeated listening to The Lovin Spoonful's "Did You Ever Have To Make Up Your Mind?" until you do the right thing! ;-)
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post #5 of 15 Old 07-23-2012, 07:48 AM
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Oddly I was about to post a similar question this morning and Viola here is this thread.. Coincidence?

Anyhoo- I have a nice little 5.1 system going in my living room right now that seems be a nice fit for the huge room its in.My amp is providing enough decent power to make me and other listeners happy for movie nights, however when it comes to simply listening to music, the Paradigm two way in wall speakers and little sub just are not quite doing it for me. I want to use a differnt set of main speakers when listening to music.

Question 1) Is there anything wrong with simply connecting a different set of mains to channel B and using it to listen to music in stereo?

Question 2) The Power Rating on Channel B should be the same as Channel A correct?






My current setup

AMP) Pioneer VSX-60
Mains) Paradigm AMS 250v.3 in wall
Center) Klipsh SC.5
Rears) Hand made (audiophile friend made some dual 6 paper cone/dual tweeter dipole surrounds)
Sub) Yamaha ( old YST-SW015, I know it sucks ut its what I have at the moment )

Wanting to Add Bose 901's or another set of Mains on Channel B for better stereo throughout the room.


Also, my room is huge, so I have been loaned some Bose 901s to test out becuase my room is so large.

Room is 20 wide by 41 long. and half of the room has a 20 ft ceiling the other half into the kitchen is a 10ft ceiling. Ill try to upload a picture with a room diagram.

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post #6 of 15 Old 07-23-2012, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickusa View Post

Oddly I was about to post a similar question this morning and Viola here is this thread.. Coincidence?
Anyhoo- I have a nice little 5.1 system going in my living room right now that seems be a nice fit for the huge room its in.My amp is providing enough decent power to make me and other listeners happy for movie nights, however when it comes to simply listening to music, the Paradigm two way in wall speakers and little sub just are not quite doing it for me. I want to use a differnt set of main speakers when listening to music.
Question 1) Is there anything wrong with simply connecting a different set of mains to channel B and using it to listen to music in stereo?
Question 2) The Power Rating on Channel B should be the same as Channel A correct?
My current setup

AMP) Pioneer VSX-60
Mains) Paradigm AMS 250v.3 in wall
Center) Klipsh SC.5
Rears) Hand made (audiophile friend made some dual 6 paper cone/dual tweeter dipole surrounds)
Sub) Yamaha ( old YST-SW015, I know it sucks ut its what I have at the moment )
Wanting to Add Bose 901's or another set of Mains on Channel B for better stereo throughout the room.
Also, my room is huge, so I have been loaned some Bose 901s to test out becuase my room is so large.
Room is 20 wide by 41 long. and half of the room has a 20 ft ceiling the other half into the kitchen is a 10ft ceiling. Ill try to upload a picture with a room diagram.

If you don't run the 2 sets of speakers at the same time, and neither presents a too-low impedance to the amp, no problem. The b terminal is exactly, precisely the same thing as the A terminal. They are just 2 connections to the same 2 amps. SO power is of course identical since it's the same amp.

Using both simultaneously is not recommended because impedance may dip low enough to cause problems with your amp and, as alluded to above, no matter where you sit, the outputs of the two speakers on each side will not sum correctly. Some frequencies will be increased and some reduced because the relative phases of the two speakersare different when the sound gets to you, and those relative phases change meaningfully when you move as little as half an inch. "Comb filtering" is the phenomenon. If you sweep a comb filter you get the guitar sound from the Doobie Brothers' Listen to the Music. Can't quite get the full EVH flanging effect, though. My hometown guitar slinger dude Pat Metheny says he achieved the chorused sound of his guitar early in his carreer simply bu using different speakers at different distances from the mics.
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post #7 of 15 Old 07-23-2012, 10:13 AM
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Wow, great, thanks for providing some excellent information. Ill post a review when I get it all together. I also wrote this response while listeing to the Doobies " listen to the music " biggrin.gif
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post #8 of 15 Old 07-24-2012, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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What on god's green earth is a Kluge?

One shall stand... One Shall Fall... - Optimus Prime
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post #9 of 15 Old 07-24-2012, 12:49 PM
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I had to look it up actually...

"A workaround, a quick-and-dirty solution, a clumsy or inelegant, yet effective solution to a problem, typically using parts that are cobbled together"

Cheers
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post #10 of 15 Old 07-24-2012, 12:53 PM
 
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A good definition is using 2 pairs of spaced sources reproducing the same passband.

The result is quite simply superposition resulting in destructive spatial polar lobing that appears as comb filtering in the frequency response.

And it is ONLY effective in the sense that sound is still generated - but a failure in every respect with regards to the arriving signal quality.
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post #11 of 15 Old 07-24-2012, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I actually use either a certain set of speakers when I want to hear them. Only on certin occasions do I play both pairs togeather with the speaker selector and the surrounds+ subwoofer.

The speaker selector also has an Amplifier switcher so I can run a seperate stereo only amp if I wanted. I do have two other stereo receivers laying around One is a Kenwood from 1997 one is retro.

I'm still looking for a retro tube integrated amp.

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post #12 of 15 Old 07-24-2012, 01:21 PM
 
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So in fact, after all of this, you essentially are driving just ONE pair of front speakers at a time. rolleyes.gif

If you had just included the color of the room at the time of first asking the question...

He's all yours, guys...
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post #13 of 15 Old 07-24-2012, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Get a receiver capable of "Wides" and use the extra pair there. Much better use than as a second set of mains.

This! An avr will allow you to integrate extra speakers into your room. Being able to adjust distances for individual speakers minimises phase issues.
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post #14 of 15 Old 07-24-2012, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by dragonfyr View Post

A good definition is using 2 pairs of spaced sources reproducing the same passband.
The result is quite simply superposition resulting in destructive spatial polar lobing that appears as comb filtering in the frequency response.

Which you still get with just two speakers and subsequent room reflections anyhow.

I have gone the route of heavily dampening my room and then adding wides and side surrounds via a multichannel AVR. 2ch music can be turned into surroundsound.

With being able to set speaker delays in the digital domain and real time analyzers to read the resulting frequency response overcomes a lot of problems we would have encountered a couple of decades ago.

Imagine being able to control the time arrival and dB level of room reflections and how much scope to adjust the sound field that that would give.
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post #15 of 15 Old 07-24-2012, 05:07 PM
 
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Which you still get with just two speakers and subsequent room reflections anyhow..

Yes and no, assuming they are stereo.

Yes to the degree that the reflections are virtual sources.

With two pairs playing simultaneously you have two seats of spaced sources with a small time oiffset which exacerbates the non-minimum phase superposition (as the two pairs lack the decorrelation adding to the stereo imaging.

Thus you simply exacerbate the situation. We reach the situation very quickly where less is more unless you have ALLOT of closely spaced sources - where we very quickly are limited by the interdriver/unit spacings!

And all the delay cannot compensate for the multiple sources and driver spacing combinations and permutations. And even for the limited number it can, it is only valid for precisely one point - which as you mention that they are different, they will still suffer astigmatism of the driver acoustical origins squirreling the alignment.... The math just gets ugly quicker the more drivers and speaker you add.biggrin.gif

Long story short, a single drive is better than two, and a pair, while exhibiting problems, is still better than 3 or 4. etc..... hence the original motives behind the development of co-located drivers in order to cobble together a full range coherent source in the form of co-axial drivers...
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