What's your candidate for the biggest bunch of audio baloney ever written or perpetrated? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 183 Old 08-10-2012, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Greg121986 View Post

Everything from The Upgrade Company.

LOL. Maybe some of their shills will visit us.
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post #92 of 183 Old 08-10-2012, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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BTW, I changed the title of this thread from "...ever written" to "...ever written or perpetrated" to give more opportunities for reporting BS of all kinds.
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post #93 of 183 Old 08-10-2012, 10:25 PM
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Post by this individual are always fun. LOL
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

An amplifier like the Music Hall A70.2 or the Musical Fidelity M3i will bring out the best in many speakers whereas almost no HT receiver (with the possible exception of the Cambridge 650R) will do so.Those are just two relatively affordable examples out of the many good integrated amplifiers available.

Virtually all HT receivers have pitifully small power supplies, which cannot provide adequate current to drive even two channels adequately in the bass. This is why a subwoofer is almost always needed with an HT receiver, even when front speakers are used that are supposed to have decent bass. You should be aware that HT receivers give RMS power figures only for a frequency of 1000 Hz, which ain't bass. If they gave actual power output figures for 50 Hz, with an actual speaker for a load, they would be pathetic.

Back in the good old days (yes Grandpa), subwoofers were almost unheard of because amplifiers actually could provide enough LF current to provide some decent bass, and speakers actually had 10" and 12" bass drivers to produce good bass. When you take the prices of that equipment and adjust for inflation to today's dollar, those amplifiers cost something like $1000 to $5000 for a two-channel amplifier with just basic features.

High-quality integrated amplifiers (like the ones I mentioned) DO have much larger power supplies and CAN provide enough speaker drive current for decent bass, but they do cost a lot more than $1000, and that is sticker shock to people used to thinking that they are getting something decent when they spend $600 on a receiver that has five (or 7) $20 amplifier circuits and a $40 power supply. When you realize how little money actually goes into the amplifier and power supply of a typical HT receiver, it is really a miracle that anything remotely listenable comes out. It is rather sad, though, that there are people who think that this kind of equipment is capable of producing enough output current for good sound quality.

Unfortunately, the typical receiver is pathetically underpowered in order to provide the latest Howdy-Doody room correction as a band-aid to attempt to partially make up for the lousy amplifiers they contain. Better amplifiers aren't as exciting to the Yahadenho advertising and marketing boys as a five-page list of gee-whiz features. Guess where the money goes...and does not go.

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post #94 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Greg121986 View Post

Everything from The Upgrade Company.

The impressive difference being: Almost all of the products described previously were benign, they don't put your equipment out of warranty or break it, they just waste your money.
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post #95 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Post by this individual are always fun. LOL

This is the best I've seen yet:
Quote:
Unfortunately, the typical receiver is pathetically underpowered in order to provide the latest Howdy-Doody room correction as a band-aid to attempt to partially make up for the lousy amplifiers they contain.

In reality room correction is just a software upgrade to the DSP firmware that is already in the AVR. There is zero dedicated hardware in the AVR and it costs nearly zero in terms of electrical power. This reminds me of my 2006 car where I paid double over the price of anti lock brakes to obtain traction control. In reality, once you have the hardware for anti lock brakes, traction control is just a bit more software and the front panel switch to turn it off and on.

I get the feeling from the neanderthal posting above that someone thinks that tons of power is taken from the AVR's power supply to energize the few more kilobytes of ROM where the upgraded firmware resides. In reality, probably no power at all is involved, except maybe a fraction of a watt more goes to to the extra system RAM to run it.
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post #96 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 08:43 AM
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Of course no power is involved; the only place that idea came from is out of your head. That is pure nonsense, and it came from YOU, not me.

My POINT was that the marketing people demand that money be put into many many features that look good on the spec sheets, leaving the AUDIO engineers a very slim budget which prevents putting a large enough power supply or adequately designed amplifier circuits into the receiver. BUDGET priorities in the receiver design was what I was talking about, and that should have been clear to anyone who read my comments carefully. Software costs MONEY to license from Audessy or other software companies, or to design (or do you think software engineers work for free?).

If you would read what I SAY, instead of inventing and attributing some nonsense to me so that you can ridicule it, it would be helpful.

I could accuse you of buying the Brooklyn Bridge and then say how stupid it was; that wouldn't make any of it true.

Childish name-calling is not helpful either. Neanderthal? Aren't you the same guy that was banned permanently from the Stereophile forums for your name-calling and disruptive behavior?



[quote name="arnyk" url="/t/1421636/
I get the feeling from the neanderthal posting above that someone thinks that tons of power is taken from the AVR's power supply to energize the few more kilobytes of ROM where the upgraded firmware resides. In reality, probably no power at all is involved, except maybe a fraction of a watt more goes to to the extra system RAM to run it.[/quote]
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post #97 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Childish name-calling is not helpful either. Neanderthal? Aren't you the same guy that was banned permanently from the Stereophile forums for your name-calling and disruptive behavior?

Actually if anyone deserves to be banned it would be you commsysman for openly trashing a company so bad that the company founder/owner calls you out in several posts. You go so far as to lie about products to push you own agenda. You always come off as a extremely biased salesman.

Its your wording of your posts that gets you the back lash of every poster on this forum.
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post #98 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 09:20 AM
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This is getting out of hand! I wish you could get just half of your facts straight before you lash out.

What I SAID about the Ascend speakers was that they are good speakers but overpriced compared to the competition. That is my opinion, and that is what I actually said. I have said it several times. Apparently someone around here has such close ties to the company or its products that they feel they have to lie about me over and over to try to intimidate me and make me shut up.

How can you attack that as "openly trashing " them (or the company)? I think you need to learn to READ. Get your facts straight and then BACK OFF! The problem is not "my wording" but the distortions and lies that people come up with on their own. It would be nice if people would accurately look at my wording.

Mr. "Ascend" may have "called me out", but he was wrong about everything he said. He repeatedly says I never came to his facility (which has almost nothing to do with my opinion of the speakers in any case), and when I challenged him to meet face-to-face with me and the other two people that were there that day, he refused to respond. He ignored my challenge and tried to change the subject. He apparently is happy to make accusations and not willing to confront proof that he is wrong.

The significant fact, which I have repeatedly stated, is that I have spent many hours listening to the speakers in question at a close friend's house, and THAT is where my opinion of them comes from. The whole attempt to make an issue of anything else is a red herring.

As for "banning", if it is you who is misrepresenting what I said, just who deserves censure?


The "back-lash of every poster"??? How laughable! What you mean is the ravings of a very small number of people who try desperately and repeatedly to shut me up by lies, gratuitous childish insults, and attempts at intimidation.

I have had many personal messages expressing amazement at the low tactics of a few flamers who go after me over and over and over again. Those people are able to see what is really going on, and I am sure that THEY represent the vast majority of the posters on these forums.






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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Actually if anyone deserves to be banned it would be you commsysman for openly trashing a company so bad that the company founder/owner calls you out in several posts. You go so far as to lie about products to push you own agenda. You always come off as a extremely biased salesman.
Its your wording of your posts that gets you the back lash of every poster on this forum.
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post #99 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 09:41 AM
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My POINT was that the marketing people demand that money be put into many many features that look good on the spec sheets, leaving the AUDIO engineers a very slim budget which prevents putting a large enough power supply or adequately designed amplifier circuits into the receiver. BUDGET priorities in the receiver design was what I was talking about, and that should have been clear to anyone who read my comments carefully. Software costs MONEY to license from Audessy or other software companies, or to design (or do you think software engineers work for free?).
This point would have some validity IF:

1) Low-cost amplifiers generally lacked the ability to drive typical speakers adequately, but that's largely an audiophile myth.

2) Makers of mass-market AVRs did not enjoy massive economies of scale that allow them to design better gear for far less than the high-end garagistas.

But if you have to sell high-end amps for a living, you gotta believe what you gotta believe.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #100 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

This point would have some validity IF:
1) Low-cost amplifiers generally lacked the ability to drive typical speakers adequately, but that's largely an audiophile myth.
2) Makers of mass-market AVRs did not enjoy massive economies of scale that allow them to design better gear for far less than the high-end garagistas.
But if you have to sell high-end amps for a living, you gotta believe what you gotta believe.

But its so much cooler to say you own an expensive boutique (elite and fashionable) brand. They sound sooooo much better. Add expensive boutique cables and speaker wires and it makes you an audiophile genius and more knowledgable than the desperate little fanboys on this forum rolleyes.gif

I can't think of the person who did it, that had the expensive McIntosh amp and did a test with his friends with Emotiva amps and there was no preceived difference in sound quality or airy ness, or bass, or crispness, or floating soundstage or extra extra detailed bass.

I've listened to NAD T765 and Onkyo 818 and with everything to off there wasn't any difference in sound.
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post #101 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 10:15 AM
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But its so much cooler to say you own an expensive boutique (elite and fashionable) brand.
Yeah, it is. Heck, I own a semi-elite brand of amplifier—though not one commsysman sells. frown.gif
Quote:
I can't think of the person who did it, that had the expensive McIntosh amp and did a test with his friends with Emotiva amps and there was no preceived difference in sound quality or airy ness, or bass, or crispness, or floating soundstage or extra extra detailed bass.
And I don't begrudge anybody the joy of feeling that way in the privacy of their own home, or even their friends' homes. But when you venture into a public forum be prepared to either back up what you say or take some heat for it.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #102 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 10:20 AM
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My power amplifiers were made by Audire (out of business) and Bryston. I am a retired engineer and teacher and do not "SELL" anything...and the implication is wrong, derogatory, and offensive, so kindly KNOCK IT OFF!

Your repeated practice of making gratuitous insults to people you disagree with does not make you any smarter or more knowledgeable, or a nice person. Cleaning up your act would be a mature and responsible thing to do. Can we hope?

I have seen hundreds of favorable mentions of Bryston amplifiers on here, and they have been one of the dominant manufacturers in the amplifier business for over 30 years, both in pro audio and home audio. If I think they sound better than the competition, I seem to have thousands of other people who share my view.

They have manufactured tens of thousands of quality amplifiers over the years and are sure as hell no "boutique' manufacturer.

And if a bunch of people want to gather and "test" and decide that their Ford Escorts are as good as my Corvette or my Prius, I wish them well with their Escorts. I will still drive my Corvette and my Prius and laugh at them.

I'm sure the McIntosh owners are chuckling too.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

Yeah, it is. Heck, I own a semi-elite brand of amplifier—though not one commsysman sells. frown.gif
And I don't begrudge anybody the joy of feeling that way in the privacy of their own home, or even their friends' homes. But when you venture into a public forum be prepared to either back up what you say or take some heat for it.
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post #103 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

My power amplifiers were made by Audire (out of business) and Bryston. I am a retired engineer and teacher and do not "SELL" anything...and the implication is wrong, derogatory, and offensive, so KNOCK IT OFF!
I have seen hundreds of favorable mentions of Bryston amplifiers on here, and they have been one of the dominant manufacturers in the amplifier business for over 30 years, both in pro audio and home audio.
They have manufactured tens of thousands of quality amplifiers over the years and are sure as hell no "boutique' manufacturer.

You come across as a salesman because you aggressively push a select few brands. Which is fine but you make absolute statements like this is the best subwoofer you can get under $1k PERIOD end of story. Its the exact same brands in every thread you make, i've seen many times where I have made recommendations to an OP and you right off the bat say "THOSE ARE NO GOOD" PSB is the BEST and Monitor Audio. I've had alot of experience with many brands as well, Polk, Arx, Ascend, Axiom, Boston, Paradigm, Klipsch, McIntosh (not in home) Infinity, and Monitor Audio. You come across that only YOU know best and everyone else is wrong in their recommendations. So either chill out and relax and actually respect others opinion and attempt o broaden your scope of different brands or suffer the flack that comes your way.
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post #104 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 10:51 AM
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I have seen hundreds of favorable mentions of Bryston amplifiers on here, and they have been one of the dominant manufacturers in the amplifier business for over 30 years, both in pro audio and home audio. If I think they sound better than the competition, I seem to have thousands of other people who share my view.
And none of you could tell them apart from Denon AVR in a blind comparison if your lives depended on it.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #105 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 10:52 AM
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The problem is that you can't or don't read. Try to take an unbiased look at exactly what I actually SAY, and maybe you will change your mind. I think you are stating some opinions that are not backed up by the facts.

If you read my posts, you will find that I recommend some OPPO, Bryston, Martin-Logan, Boston Acoustics, Gallo Acoustics, Music Hall, Musical Fidelity, Vandersteen, KEF, PSB, Monitor Audio, Audire, Audio Research, Conrad-Johnson, Ayre, and some other products. If you look over my posts for the last month or two, I'll bet you will find them all. Are those the "select few brands" you had in mind? That is pretty silly, if you ask me.

I SAY things like "IN MY OPINION this is one of the best........for the money".

That is only an opinion, not an absolute statement of anything. It is also NOT meant to refute anyone else's opinion or recommendation. I try to avoid doing that.

If I repeatedly recommend the PSB Image T6, it is because I had them for two years, have listened to a lot of the competition, and think they are hard to beat for the money based on my experience. Does that make sense to you? It seems logical to me. Why can't I say so without people like you wrongly characterizing what I ACTUALLY SAY?

I recommend what I have experience with, if it seems good to me for its price. I was under the impression that people mostly come here asking if someone has a positive experience to share.

If I do not recommend some other brand, it is probably either because I either have no experience with it or my experience convinces me that its performance may not be what someone is best served by, based on what THEY are saying.

I'm not quite sure how that makes me a "salesman" for anything...any more than anyone else who expresses an opinion here.


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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

You come across as a salesman because you aggressively push a select few brands. Which is fine but you make absolute statements like this is the best subwoofer you can get under $1k PERIOD end of story. Its the exact same brands in every thread you make, i've seen many times where I have made recommendations to an OP and you right off the bat say "THOSE ARE NO GOOD" PSB is the BEST and Monitor Audio. I've had alot of experience with many brands as well, Polk, Arx, Ascend, Axiom, Boston, Paradigm, Klipsch, McIntosh (not in home) Infinity, and Monitor Audio. You come across that only YOU know best and everyone else is wrong in their recommendations. So either chill out and relax and actually respect others opinion and attempt o broaden your scope of different brands or suffer the flack that comes your way.
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post #106 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

I SAY things like "IN MY OPINION this is one of the best........for the money". That is only an opinion, not an absolute statement of anything.

Then why is that your opinion? I've had opinions that later were shown to be based on wrong information. So I changed my opinion based on the new evidence. Doesn't that make more sense than sticking to an "opinion" when it can't be backed up with fact?

Just sayin'.

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post #107 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 11:03 AM
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The reasons for an opinion can vary. I would assume that you are intelligent enough to figure that out, which makes your question seem rather odd.

I guess that what you are saying that no one should ever express any opinion if there is ANY possibiliity it could ever change. That is an extremely odd position to take if you ask me. I think we all change some opinions over time, but that hardly seems like a reason to never express one now.

I think it would shut this forum down in about two days; no one would ever say anything if that was the rule we had to follow.


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Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Then why is that your opinion? I've had opinions that later were shown to be based on wrong information. So I changed my opinion based on the new evidence. Doesn't that make more sense than sticking to an "opinion" when it can't be backed up with fact?
Just sayin'.
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post #108 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

In real life there is no harmonic distortion!

Sure there is. Anything that vibrates naturally can be coerced to produce distortion naturally and acoustically.
Quote:
a typical modern AVR/AVP will have no more THD than 0.08% or so which is practically negligible. So it's not our ears that are deficient, it's audio systems that are not built to the proper "spec" in case there is severe THD experienced.

Perhaps you are unaware that ears have relatively high levels of distortion, especially at loud volumes. So there's another "real life" situation where harmonic and IM distortion occur.

I'm sure you're more on the side of science than your posts appear, but ears are definitely not perfect or even close to perfect. As was explained, they distort, masking prevents them from hearing certain sounds in the presence of other sounds, their frequency response changes wildly with absolute SPL, and so forth. Whether ears helped cave dwellers avoid being eaten is beside the point. That ears work pretty well is not the same as not having obvious and quantifiable flaws.

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post #109 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

The reasons for an opinion can vary ... I guess that what you are saying that no one should ever express an opinion if there is ANY possibiliity it could ever change.

No, and I wasn't trying to be combative either. It just seemed strange to express an opinion, then acknowledge that it's not necessarily based on anything. I have lots of opinions! But they're developed over time based on experiences I found to be true. I guess the difference is between an opinion about science and an opinion about art. My opinion that Jeff Beck is the world's most creative and inventive guitar player cannot be proven, but my opinion that all domestic sized rooms benefit from bass traps is trivial to back up with evidence.

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post #110 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Getting back to the topic, how about the now-defunct Reference Audio Mods, home of the $485 wooden knob?
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post #111 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

.... If I think they sound better than the competition, I seem to have thousands of other people who share my view.
...
Hard to resist a logical fallacy of numbers supporting your point. Tens of thousands support homeopathic pills, psychics, etc.
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post #112 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 11:17 AM
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Now there's a totally nonsensical and indefensible statement.

biggrin.gif

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Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

And none of you could tell them apart from Denon AVR in a blind comparison if your lives depended on it.
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post #113 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 11:20 AM
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When or where did I ever acknowledge that my opinion is not based on anything?

You are not talking about me!

Never said it. What I SAID was that an opinion is not an absolute. That is hardly the same as saying it has no basis.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

No, and I wasn't trying to be combative either. It just seemed strange to express an opinion, then acknowledge that it's not necessarily based on anything. I have lots of opinions! But they're developed over time based on experiences I found to be true. I guess the difference is between an opinion about science and an opinion about art. My opinion that Jeff Beck is the world's most creative and inventive guitar player cannot be proven, but my opinion that all domestic sized rooms benefit from bass traps is trivial to back up with evidence.
--Ethan
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post #114 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

This is the best I've seen yet:
In reality room correction is just a software upgrade to the DSP firmware that is already in the AVR. There is zero dedicated hardware in the AVR and it costs nearly zero in terms of electrical power. This reminds me of my 2006 car where I paid double over the price of anti lock brakes to obtain traction control. In reality, once you have the hardware for anti lock brakes, traction control is just a bit more software and the front panel switch to turn it off and on.
I get the feeling from the neanderthal posting above that someone thinks that tons of power is taken from the AVR's power supply to energize the few more kilobytes of ROM where the upgraded firmware resides. In reality, probably no power at all is involved, except maybe a fraction of a watt more goes to to the extra system RAM to run it.

I cracked up when I read that, too, because the whole post was about about achieving effective bass response from speakers. Buy that expensive integrated amp with a big transformer that has NO EQ, and the frequency response curve for the bass is bound to be all over the place in many rooms. And yet room correction software that does provide EQ filters for the low frequencies can audibly improve the bass response for the listener (not to mention aligning the timing with all the speakers in a multichannel setup). My "guess" is that with a pair of towers, a $500 AVR with Audyssey MultiEQ will significantly outperform a $1000 integrated amp in bass quality for many listeners, except at maybe very loud volumes.

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post #115 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 11:24 AM
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I like where this is going! eek.gif
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post #116 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 11:26 AM
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My favorite was the Tice Clock.
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Getting back to the topic, how about the now-defunct Reference Audio Mods, home of the $485 wooden knob?
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post #117 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

What I SAID about the Ascend speakers was that they are good speakers but overpriced compared to the competition. That is my opinion, and that is what I actually said. I have said it several times.

Uh-huh, but then you say things like this
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The Sierra 1 is a nice-sounding speaker. It sounds a lot like the PSB Alpha B1 speaker. I think the PSB sounds a bit better, though, and sells for $299, whereas the Sierra 1 sells for over $800. IMO many less-expensive speakers outperform the Sierra 1 in every way. . .

An $800 speaker that sounds slightly worse than a $300 budget speaker is not a good speaker, by any measure. Unless you mean cabinet build quality and aesthetics rolleyes.gif

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post #118 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 12:12 PM
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Now there's a totally nonsensical and indefensible statement.
Indefensible? I can quote college textbooks and AES papers to back me up. I'm not just pulling opinions out of my a$$.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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post #119 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Sure there is. Anything that vibrates naturally can be coerced to produce distortion naturally and acoustically.
Perhaps you are unaware that ears have relatively high levels of distortion, especially at loud volumes. So there's another "real life" situation where harmonic and IM distortion occur.
I'm sure you're more on the side of science than your posts appear, but ears are definitely not perfect or even close to perfect. As was explained, they distort, masking prevents them from hearing certain sounds in the presence of other sounds, their frequency response changes wildly with absolute SPL, and so forth. Whether ears helped cave dwellers avoid being eaten is beside the point. That ears work pretty well is not the same as not having obvious and quantifiable flaws.
--Ethan

Hi Ethan and thanks for your follow up. So, IMHO distortion can never occur naturally, it's always a manmade thing. Anything that vibrates will have a fundamental frequency and a series of harmonics (ocurring naturally), but I wouldn't call that DISTORTION. But I'm sure you also know this. Wikipedia says: "A distortion is the alteration of the original shape (or other characteristic) of an object, image, sound, waveform or other form of information or representation. Distortion is usually unwanted, and often many methods are employed to minimize it in practice..." Etc. If you're talking about distortion at high volumes you are pushing this discussion unneccessarily to extremes. While on one side I'm trying to talk about healty human ears "working" under normal conditions, though I have to add I'm not an otologist to discuss details of hearing damage under this thread. Please accept my apologies.

Masking. I'm surprised to see this issue of masking coming up so many times saying that it is a flaw of the ears. Masking is another phenomenon occuring naturally, but why a flaw? Why do you want to hear certain sounds in the presence of other sounds? Care to expand? And while your at it, care to also expand on why you think it is a problem? Frequency response changing wildly? Come on Ethan, don't you know the psychoacoustical reasons behind? Why would Mother Nature do such a bad job? Do you want to hear your own heart beat? Wasn't MN thoughtful enough to reduce the sensitivity of our ears in the low frequency region to avoid us from going crazy with that internal thumping sound of our hearts all through our life? I think she was!! smile.gif

The point of the cavemen IS the point here IMHO, and the way our ears work didn't change throughout the evolutional period. Those things you mentioned are to me not obvious, not quantifiable and especially not FLAWS.

Finally, just to poke you Ethan, why don't you think it's another flaw that we don't hear below the threshold of hearing (aka. 0 dB)? Wouldn't it be nice? Just kidding! wink.gif

Lookin' forward and thanks again.
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post #120 of 183 Old 08-11-2012, 12:30 PM
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Masking. I'm surprised to see this issue of masking coming up so many times saying that it is a flaw of the ears.
No one used the word flaw. You compared mics to "the perfectness of our ears." But mics aren't affected by masking; ears are. I'd say that's one for mics.
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Why do you want to hear certain sounds in the presence of other sounds?
Because sometimes more than one instrument is playing at the same time? Because even when only one instrument is playing, it's producing both fundamentals and harmonics?
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The point of the cavemen IS the point here IMHO, and the way our ears work didn't change throughout the evolutional period. Those things you mentioned are to me not obvious, not quantifiable and especially not FLAWS.
Your point about cavemen makes no sense. Because cavemen could (sometimes) hear approaching predators, that makes human hearing perfect? I think you skipped a few steps in the logic. And just because things aren't obvious to you, and you don't know how to quantify them, doesn't mean they haven't been quantified.

I think you need to crack a psychoacoustics textbook before you dig yourself any deeper.

If you can't explain how it works, you can't say it doesn't.—The High-End Creed

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